Do you think the Egyptians were black?

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Outside_85

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@outside_85 said:

I think they were Arab before Arabia was anything more than a million square miles of desert.

How do you figure?

Coz thats how they painted themselves in the tombs of the kings that have preserved the colors.

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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The idea that "Africa = all black" is ridiculous, and that is largely where it came from. There are three large ethnicities throughout the europe/asia/africa continent region around there. White, Arab/Mediterranean/Olive (often called different things by some), black.

Egypt was a melting pot before America, it was the hub of civilization, at the access gates of all three of those continents, with Greeks right next door, Mesopotamians right next door (and contrary to what people like to claim on Egypt, most of the older elements of civilization, even outside of the famous Ur was actually in that area, compares to the dates of the ones in Egypt and usually beats them - so maybe they brought it into Egypt to some degree - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities_throughout_history - look at them by the dates), and yes, the Africans below Egypt.

It even works logically, as they would have more influence from the people above them than being mixed with the people across a vast nearly uncrossable desert below them (in those days it might as well have been), except for the Ethiopian/Nubian connection - which isn't as much as the flow from the Levant.

No Caption Provided

We already have geneological evidence to suggest while we all came out of Africa at one point or another, there was a large migratory part of humans coming in from Eurasia into Africa coming as far back as 5k thousand years ago, but perhaps later. https://www.nature.com/news/african-genes-tracked-back-1.13607 https://www.nature.com/news/first-ancient-african-genome-reveals-vast-eurasian-migration-1.18531 . It would be borderline naive to think the gate access of all three of them, essentially the levant/egypt would not be hugely mixed. And probably look exactly like they look like today. Heck, it even largely reaches the conclusion of what the groups in context largely have their markers diverge in - being levantine/arabian mix here; look at this chart.

Close to the berbers, and all separate from what we see of the subsaharans - also from https://www.nature.com/articles/srep26565. This was the most complex of the charts, with the most data put in, but all of them would pretty much point to the same thing.

More Mediterranean/arab look (which is really the mixed bag in it's own degree).

Anyone saying they were either white or black is simply wrong from that aspect.

Also, why not talk about the differences in even what the ancient people thought? When the more ancient of the Greeks were describing the looks of the Egyptians (before the Roman era here), they were considered far lighter what they said of the Ethiopians. Were they considered as light as the Greeks? No. But black? Also, NO.

And the paintings in question brought up before are also not proving anything. We have from various hieroglyphics examples to bring up from pretty much every shade of skin there is... It doesn't prove that they were on a whole anything. And the norm is exactly what we would expect from something right next to the Levant, practically a part of it. Not black African. Not white Caucasian either.

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The_living_tribunal_24

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@ccraft: yh man we wuz Kingz and shiettt

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Frozen

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The answer is still the same. They weren't black, but olive skinned.

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SpareHeadOne

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#206  Edited By SpareHeadOne

Just wana say that @ccraft: is an amazing dude.

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decaf_wizard

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#207  Edited By decaf_wizard

This is a pathetic and moronic thread. Ancient Egyptians were not black. Nothing suggests this. DNA and historical accounts point against it. They were something akin to arabic, and many of them were of Greek descent

Some of them may have had decent from people from other places in africa but thats about it

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decaf_wizard

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#208  Edited By decaf_wizard

@revan- said:
@echostarlord117 said:
@revan- said:

@echostarlord117:

Are you for real right now? Modern Americans are Europeans.

A little over half are Europeans, while the rest are from all over the globe. My point still stands. The current inhabitants of an area don't reflect the ancient make up. Not that hard of a concept to grasp.

Right, but nothing suggests that the Egypt underwent such a demographic change. North America was effectively conquered by Europeans, and lax border laws allowed for massive amounts of immigration over time. Nothing like that ever occurred in Egypt. There's also archaeological evidence debunking the idea that ancient Egyptians looked like Sub-Saharan Africans. The way they depicted themselves is more than enough proof, at least for me, that they looked more like modern day Egyptians than black Africans.

These aren't black people.
These aren't black people.

I mean, there's no doubt in my mind that black individuals lived within ancient Egyptian society. Heck, Africans existed in medieval Japanese society, too. That doesn't mean the Japanese were once black. The whole concept is really just a bunch of ignorant quackery from African American radicals/black supremacists. The majority of folks that believe this also think that ancient Jews looked like Nigerian people and that black people pretty much laid the foundation for every major discovery so far... that is, if they didn't do the discovering themselves.

TFW when DNA studies disagree with you (Page 3)

1) It doesn't sound like a credible source and isn't formatted like an actual study. They clearly took what they wanted from those studies and left out the rest. They took so many false conclusions from the genetic information I cant even begin to start. It was originally a study about genetic disease among the members of a specific royal family. I don't really even trust the original study either, given Zahi Hawass is known for some less than stellar science

2) DNA contamination is a thing, especially when sources are that old, and its one of the reasons why sometimes you end up getting results like this, that clearly don't make sense.

No Caption Provided

3) You do realize that the DNA of royals might be different than anything else yes? It was commonplace for the royalty of Egypt to marry princesses of other kingdoms in Africa and they did mitochondrial DNA here....which is passed upon an unbroken maternal line. In the case of King Tut, the strong contenders believed to be his mother or grandmother were a woman called Kiya, believed to be a foreign princess, and the other is Nefertiti, who's ancestry is unknown. The other samples they did were bone samples, where they admitted to only getting partial chromosomes and admitted it was possible modern DNA could have contaminated their results

So basically the best thing black supremacists pseudoscientific quacks can hope for is "We wuz tangibly related to the Egyptian royal line an sheet". And that was before the Ptolemies came along. They were greek

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echostarlord117

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@decaf_wizard: Don't bother. The only arguments he takes seriously are his own.

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Revan-

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@decaf_wizard: Don't bother. The only arguments he takes seriously are his own.

>doesn't rebut my arguments

>ur arguments r bad

GG.

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echostarlord117

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@revan-: Lol My arguments are bad? One of your arguments was, and I quote,

Do modern Americans look like ancient Americans?

xD After enough time, people learn how to recognize when someone is too biased to accept that they're wrong. It was fairly easy with you, especially after you attempted to discredit the study I provided for only using DNA from one site... when the non-peer reviewed study you provided was guilty of the same thing. It's sleazy tactics like those that give you people away. People are disproving your stuff left and right and you're just doubling down every chance you get. I've got more important things to do, y'know?

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Revan-

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#212  Edited By Revan-

@echostarlord117: You are quote me, then intentionally remove the context. Nice debating, bud.

And why do you reference your study as peer reviewed, when the peer reviewers panned it? Not to mention it mentioned a single site of insignificant mummes, I explained this in a post, which you read and pretended it didn't exist. You wouldn't even know because you clearly didn't read your sources, saying they are 2 when it's one source with another referencing you posted. It's sleazy tactics like those that give you people away. I've got more important things to do, y'know?

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decaf_wizard

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#213  Edited By decaf_wizard

@echostarlord117 said:

@revan-: Lol My arguments are bad? One of your arguments was, and I quote,

Do modern Americans look like ancient Americans?

xD After enough time, people learn how to recognize when someone is too biased to accept that they're wrong. It was fairly easy with you, especially after you attempted to discredit the study I provided for only using DNA from one site... when the non-peer reviewed study you provided was guilty of the same thing. It's sleazy tactics like those that give you people away. People are disproving your stuff left and right and you're just doubling down every chance you get. I've got more important things to do, y'know?

He posted a sleezy, non peer reviewed site (that I will not give the dignity of calling a study) that pulled selective bits of data without context from a study done by a discredited scientist, and they applied them to their own biased conclusions.

Get it right kek

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echostarlord117

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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@revan-:

But you did have bad arguments, your source didn't prove from DNA that the egyptians were black, and I notice when I post a complete workup from another angle entirely on why they weren't, it was completely ignored above. Anyway, I no longer care. Any look through social media on the topic will show you can't really reason with a certain crowd of afrocentrists who want to make them such. So I am not going to try to.

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Revan-

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Simon_the_digger

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jonjizz

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by modern society's standard they would definitely be considered black, although they were more brown than dark black, something like indians i'd guess, if you play AC Origins you can see a good representation

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removekebab

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@jonjizz said:

by modern society's standard they would definitely be considered black, although they were more brown than dark black, something like indians i'd guess, if you play AC Origins you can see a good representation

You mean the game that admittedly makes a false representation of history?

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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@revan-:

Nevermind. I will try and be back here tomorrow and break down what all of the links imply and don't imply. But I am going to go turn in early so I can get up to the beach tomorrow and then run to the outlet store. It is so great being on vacation :)

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Revan-

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jonjizz

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@jonjizz said:

by modern society's standard they would definitely be considered black, although they were more brown than dark black, something like indians i'd guess, if you play AC Origins you can see a good representation

You mean the game that admittedly makes a false representation of history?

lol gameplay story & mechanics aside, ubisoft always took historical realism very seriously when it comes to esthetics

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removekebab

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@jonjizz said:
@removekebab said:
@jonjizz said:

by modern society's standard they would definitely be considered black, although they were more brown than dark black, something like indians i'd guess, if you play AC Origins you can see a good representation

You mean the game that admittedly makes a false representation of history?

lol gameplay story & mechanics aside, ubisoft always took historical realism very seriously when it comes to esthetics

This time they're admittedly historically innacurate. Read the item descriptions anytime.

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deactivated-5ad4cb41c7fb8

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@cloakx14 said:
@ccraft said:
@sog7dc said:

I hate to be "that guy" but I really don't care who is/was black or white. I think people who do (note: I haven't read any posts previous to mine) are being silly and immature.

I think if they were indeed black or at least some of them were then mainstream Egyptologist should acknowledge that. Imo there is nothing silly about that.

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#225  Edited By nilljay

@dum529001: This is the confusion the world has. Who is black and who is white? In the west, they say Africans, Asians, Indians are blacks. Now when it comes to Egyptians though they don't remble the "white" they are still not black? The truth is no one is black or white. Even the so-called white are peach, pink and so forth depending on how you see color. It would be convenient to classify if need be by where you come from e.g African, Asian etc.

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TheInsufferable

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#226  Edited By TheInsufferable

It's funny that some think ancient Egyptians were Arabs, but then again, to most western people, east is seemingly comprised of only Asians and Arabs (and maybe Indians if they're feeling precise).

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deactivated-5da8e253e9df8

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They were similar to the Ethiopians.

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jonjizz

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they tried to reconstruct mummies and they looked something like this

No Caption Provided

i think this person today would be considered brown or black

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buttersdaman000

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Yes and no. There were almost certainly times throughout Egypts history where it was predominantly "black", likely when the pyramids were first built. However, if you go back far enough this is true for everywhere. I think most people err from the jump trying to fit Egypt into little racial boxes of "black" or even "white", as i've seen some people argue. Egypt was a vast multicultural empire that, throughout its history, was conquered by various nations, from Nubians to Greeks. It's people likely reflected that multiculturalism. But, I guess if you looked at it through modern lens, you'd probably consider them "black" to some degree.

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mimisalome

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SpareHeadOne

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Like the film ^ says Egyptians were the same yellow colour as the sand and they wore pointy square hats.