Do you think gender identity is ok or wrong?

@arranvid:

Homosexual people aren't always born, there are vast swaths of "gay" people who wasn't born that way. Many, many different factors go into homosexual attraction, it's not exclusively the result of genetics, not even close.

So...apparently Charlize Theron is raising her 7 year old son as a girl...because when he was 3, he said he was not a boy... So she puts him in dresses and refers to him as a "she"... I wonder if that changes the argument for anyone.

@arranvid: hello there, thats absolutely no problem i will most certainly habe a discussion with you, i have just skimmed over your post and can already see a lot of points that i will have to correct and address when i have time, i will post my response sometime tomorrow

@indomitableregal: is that all the context? It needs to be solely the childs choice, i say choice, its not a choice how you feel but the decision to live as a trans girl shouldn't be made by the parent, they should support and guide the child in the best direction while also seeking professional help for both parties

Just sit back and watch the west slowly collapse.

Yeah, this. Honestly, I am not really sure how I feel about it, but I do know that if you have a penis and you need to use the bathroom in public you use the men's room, if you have a penis and you get arrested, you get thrown in with the male population, and if you have a penis and you want to play competitive sports, you have to compete against the other male athletes.

@Penguin-Dust: yeah think about that a pretty trans girl in prison with a load of horny men, thats just asking for for trouble, maybe a separate wing but definitely not in with the others. Rape culture is already rife in America, this will literally cause sexual assault deaths

Rape already exists in prison "pretty trans girl" or not. It's an unfortunate truth about incarceration. Besides, prison doesn't allow for anything like makeup or hair styling, so there is no way to become pretty beyond normal physical stature.

I agree. I'm using intersex people as an example for those who conflate sex and gender as the same thing and try to fit it into a binary. The truth is, even sex isn't strictly binary and gender is even more complex.

OK? And? Intersex people(including all people and not just those who have ambiguous genitalia, which are the 2 out of 10.000 births) make up over 1% of the population, which is nearly 70 million people. We mustn't dismiss them.

Gender, at best, you could argue is bi-modulary, not strictly binary.

@Penguin-Dust: it is an unfortunate truth, but thays not true in uk prisons they are allowed what ever they want to be who they are as they legally and socially ARE AWOMEN so will be in a separate wig to males prisoners

@indomitableregal:

That's the product of sheer stupidity of the highest degree on the side of the parent. If that kid wanted to get Dora the Explorer permanently tattooed on his face, and the parent supported it, would that too be perceived as open-minded, refreshingly supportive and tolerant?

@cull_obsidian: I am curious then. Is prison rape among trans women serving time relatively equal among the trans population as that of the rest of the male population? Would a person born male who identifies as a woman be afforded extra protection from prison violence by being separated out because of how they identify versus the same individual if they maintained their born gender identity?

Jazz says otherwise lol. I don't know if you ever heard of that TLC show chronicling the life of Jazz Jennings. A child (I think 18 at this point) who was born male, but identified as female. She was allowed to play for her school's female soccer team. Granted, I believe her doctor was giving her testosterone inhibitors.

Uhh...honestly, that kinda is all the context. I read multiple articles, and all I gleaned was that her 7-year-old son Jackson (3 at the time), told her he was not a boy. Ever since, she's dressed him in dresses and skirts, braids his hair, and refers to him with feminine pronouns. The thing is, it's hard to tell how much of this is "supporting my child's decision", and how much is influenced by her own views as an avid LGBTQ supporter.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/46193/charlize-theron-my-seven-year-old-son-really-girl-paul-bois

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/charlize-theron-daughter-jackson-transgender

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-6991673/Charlize-Theron-support-childrens-choices-revealing-son-Jackson-identifies-girl.html

https://bckonline.com/2019/03/08/people-have-questions-about-charlize-therons-transgender-son/

https://popculture.com/celebrity-parents/2019/04/20/charlize-theron-raising-son-jackson-as-girl-transgender/

Honestly, 3 years old is just too young for a decision of that magnitude. Most 3-year-old children can't even spell their own name yet.

@indomitableregal:

Exactly my point.

@kevd4wg: This, I’m pretty okay with a lot of things if you’re not bothering people.

If you were to ask me to call you something you would get a “yeah sure” because I don’t personally mind, unless it’s something stupid like “my liege” but just don’t expect everyone to do the same especially if it’s a fact of you and their not your friend or particularly close. They’re probably not trying to be mean but it is a little much to get people to call you what you want if it’s out of the norm.

@kidolio:

100% concur.

@cull_obsidian: If by gender identity you mean the tropes like “boys are strong” or “girls like pink” then yeah, I would tend to agree.

So long as they don't seek entitlement or ask for privileges, I don't care.

@wollfmyth209:

Your figures (I'm assuming you are citing the popular Fausto-Sterling study) stem from inflated, incorrect, outdated, and debunked stats, moreover I'm pretty sure those came from the USA, not the UK. In reality, true intersex people comprise 0.018% of the population, under 60,000 people.

There are people born with up to 5 limbs, extra organs or extremities, etc. As with intersex people, these are but rare, unnatural birth defects, not different kinds of humans. Sex is a dichotomy; nothing more, nothing less.

@lord_tenebrous: Nah, I'm not citing the Fausto-Sterling study. The figures you're referring to only talk about people who have "ambiguous genitalia" which is just one of the many variations of intersex. It doesn't take into account Turner Syndrome or Klinefelters Syndrome or any of the other deviations that exist.

There are people born with up to 5 limbs, extra organs or extremities, etc. As with intersex people, these are but rare, unnatural birth defects, not different kinds of humans. Sex is a dichotomy; nothing more, nothing less.

I never said they are different kinds of humans; I'm saying there are people who don't fall into either sex, therefore it's not a strict dichotomy. Even if it was only 2 people on planet Earth, that still proves there are biological exceptions and so you can't say sex is strictly binary and gender is even less so.

@cull_obsidian: don’t have any so not worried about it

@AssertingValor: you dont have anyone you care for?

@cull_obsidian: no, I don’t have any gender confused family or relatives, all normal

As long as they're not hurting anyone or demanding special, favoured treatment, it makes no difference to me. I am a live and let live kinda guy.

@AssertingValor: Thats good for you, but are you saying you would no lo ger care for them if they did, btw saying they are normal just because they are not trans is pretty offensive as many people have issues that not all of us have, so depressed people are not normal or gay people? A more sensative word world is different or to just say 'not transgendered' as your specifically talking about that

@cull_obsidian: The suffering and suicide? looks like Clint Eastwood was right about "Pussy Generation"; are they happening mostly in the U.S and/or West in general? because that sounds very ridiculous, they commit suicide for what and why? just because of their gender? even Arabic countries (which in history and maybe now are among the countries with the most sexist ideologies). Maybe you're right and it must be taken seriously and people should try to get help for those people but nowadays with all of these people it became annoying joke.

@brucerogers: Exactly...why make a fuss about people's personal lives.

@michaelbn: offensive comments aside. To answer your question as your obviously an extremely ignorant and nieve person, your asked what are they committing suicide for?? Are you serious or just that thick, well for starters the extreme clinical depression of fundamentally feeling they are in the wrong body and even when they transition they are branded fake girls by the assholes of society and not to mention the nasty bulling that even biological girls experience but this is ramped up due to fear and hate

Also they are not many out there is just a lot of media attention that makes you think they are everywhere

In the uk there is only 2 gender identity clinics in the whole country so its very hard to get the right help for kids trust me my girl has been through enough suicide attempts due to bullying solely because she is trans,. Are you ok with that?

@cull_obsidian: I'm serious, that kind of thinking that they're in a wrong body, where does that come from? from their upbringings? the pressure from their parents? their so-called "friends"? those assholes you mentioned? or it's just with them from their birth?

You're from the UK? so that should explain something. I've seen trans people myself and spoke with some of them for having a similar school project. The bullying mostly comes from arrogant and not-so-aware people that have access to social media. It's all labels they give to them just for that moment and they will forget for the rest of their useless lives and this must be taught to the same people that are attacked.

There is not a lot of media attention, there is a lot of FALSE media attention with a lot of political correctness forced into it that will make people sick and uncaring.

Well at least be glad you have those two because there is nothing here for those people.

What with your girl being bullied? course not what creature did you take me for?

@michaelbn: That was a reasonable reply, i apologise for the name calling, but i thought you were trying to be hatful with the 'pussy generation' comment

Will respond soon

@cull_obsidian: you know gay people still identify as male and female right

So does your girlfriend have a penis... or is she a boy?

OT: do whatever you want,. As long as you live in a free country.

It's a joke.

@soothing_sounds: its my step daughter, i have only ever known her as a girl, it diesnt matter to me what going on down their, to me and her family sge is who she is and that all that matters

@AssertingValor: of course, but shes not gay, she bi

@cull_obsidian:

No she is a virgin

@spareheadone: i would hope so she is only 12

Btw what do you mean 'no' like you have any knowledge of what you are talk

I overall find with this. Just can't handle if they want right like "We want another toilet just for us!"

@cull_obsidian: so question. What makes her a girl? Mentally, I mean, besides the label "girl". I apologize if this question has already been asked of you

@soothing_sounds: ITs ok, well the mannerisms, personality, clothes, legal name change, legal gender change certificate, the pronouns we use, voice, speach patterns, likes and dislikes and of course the mental and social aspects

And being young theres literally no chance anyone would know the difference, other then if they looked which of course is not happening, as i said i dont know any different so she just herself to me, love her anyway

@soothing_sounds: adding to the answer, it is very much the outside perception on the person, because yes biologically and scientifically of course they may be born a certain sex ie male or female, but why does they mean that society cannot treat them they way they prefer to be treated if they fit in with what society views as female or male on the outside

Most people you meet will be socially so whats going on biologically and vetween their legs isnt anyone elses business, unless it poses a real risk, which either biological sex can do anyway

Her brain is very much a female leaning brain, scans and assessments have all confirmed that she thinks a certain way and responds differently then a biological make would usually do and this is before she has even had any blockers or hormones

@cull_obsidian: well this is where the line gets blurred. I dont care how you think about yourself, I dont even care

if you're biologically a girl and use the boys bathroom, vise versa, whatever. But if person says I'm a girl, but they're biological a boy, I'm calling them a boy and using Male pronouns. I have that freedom, if someone has a problem with it dont talk to me

That being said, again, I dont care what you think about yourself... but I'd be lying if I didn't think it was bs. I am what I am. I've never considered being a man or a woman as actually dictating what that means. If I had been born a woman and thought, looked, and acted the Same way. I'd call myself a woman.

Yknow what I mean. Like we're human. These brain scans lead to the segregation of woman and men. Ex why should I pay a woman the same as a man, obviously there's a difference in thought process, and maybe it actually effects the efficiency of work. Of course there's a difference physically. But if we continue this different mental thing, I think its gonna contribute more to problems in the future that people aren't considering when they support the thought process.

And then there's the subject... of why it matters? Like why? Because you want to be judged as a woman? I'm sorry, theres absolutely no way, a bisexual person with a penis who thinks they're a woman is getting sent to female prison. In the US, yes the have protective custody, so that trans folks get to hang with child touchers and rapist. I mean, that's just sort of necessary. A dude cant look like a woman and be in gladiator school, bad things happen. How about sports? You really want Mike Tyson smashing In chicks faces because he felt he was a chick?

Bottom line. Yes a woman or man can think as they please, but no, they can't expect society to conform with their needs. It's not fair to everyone else

This is all an interesting read.

I honestly don't care.

But how is someone born a boy/girl who claims to be of the opposite gender any different from a flat earther?

@soothing_sounds: well thats the think its not even about you, its about the person suffering

Hold on, so you would purposefully use a term and pronoun that they do NOT IDENTIFY with, with the full knowledge that it fundamentally hurts them? As they view their biological life a lie, just because you can? Also how on earth would you know if you just met them? Unless you checked, and anyway do you not know what being polite a respectful means or even tolerance and acceptance

Yes you have that freedom to be an asshole and you fully know what your doing when you deliberately call a trans person the opposite of what they identify with, would you call a gay person a fag or a black person the n word?, would you most likely get smacked in the face for being so disrespectful

No what is going to cause problems in the future and now is intolerance and deliberately causing offence, and you know it your jusy trying to be clever and exercise your rights to the detriment of other, tell me what actual benefits would you gain by calling a trans a boy? Other then the arrogant superiority complex? Do their rights mean more or matter more? No we are equal or at least should be but look at who are the marginalised minority and who are more vulnerable, would your macho white boy pride be so hurt by calling someone what they want to be called? Even just to be polite?

Wow, why does it matter?? Thats truly spoken by some one who has no idea how the other side feels, lets ask a rape victim is consent matters. You dont understand its not that they THINK they are the opposite sex its that they fundamentally and intrinsically FEEL and gravitate physically emotionally and mentally to that sex, it can also have a genetic and developmental component, meaning that it will always happen its not a choice or preference and whim, but almost programmed to be that way due to developmental issues, look at hermaphrodites that have both fully functioning sex organs, a d intersex is where they are female with internal gonads

Well thats also wrong, trans woman do go to womens prisons at least in the uk, i agree about sports like recently a guy transitioned into a women and broke the womens weightlifting record, but there should be some effort to level the playing field, thays the problem, in sports because there is a physical advantage and i dont know the answer there. but in society where you would know them other then to be polite or nice, theres no harm in being civil, and remember misgendering some one in their eyes is the worst insult you can make, imagine going through your like finally getting the courage to accept the internal dissonance and finally finding some sort of peace then an asshole with his 'rights' just wants to tear all that apart, how is that right?

Well tyson wouldn't make weight as a women lol but i agree its a tricky area

Again its not thinking its feeling every fibre of their being screams its not the right body, sorry not fair on everyone else wtf? Trans women are legally recognised as women just as changing your name is legally recognised, and tell me what vulnerable postion and handicap would i possibly put you in to acknowledge a trans woman, are you saying they are not entitled to want to be addressed in a wa6 they would like? Again tell me who is it hurting, because i can very well tell you from experience who it hurts when people voice their rights

I also want to say that i do understand yoir views i had the very same views against trans and gay communitys before i actually knew what was goinh on and saw that its not a bog deal to be nice to someone, what changed is being with my partner who has a young trans girl and i didnt know any different, literally just like anyother young girl who just wants to be loved, but of course with a secret, and i have supported her for over 3 years and she is just that to me a she, a little girl, honestly doesnt matter to me about the faceless biology, facts or chromosomes all that matters is the smile on her face, i hope you understand this

And hopefully you can learn to be tolerant

@mekboy: i presume your saying because they are not a girl? Thats true they are actually trans women, they know they are biologically male but feel in all aspects female, its not a choice, all they want is for society to recognise them as the gender they identify with

@arranvid: Do you realise things aren’t that simple in this world? Not everyone works to same, and we never know how a person react to a certain situation. You think the parents insisting on telling Jazz being a boy is going to fix everything? It is just as likely that Jazz will develop depression and all those kind of stuff. I am specifically trying not to use she or he because I don’t want to offend you by saying she, and offend my value by saying he.

Did you know that you don’t simply go through a transition just because your parent agree? In order to go through a transition, the person will be evaluated by a professional to decide weather or not that person is ready for transition. Sure, you can deny the reliability of a professional, but it’s just not as simple as wanting a sex change = you automatically get one.

From what I’ve seen, Jazz seems to be pretty happy. So I don’t get why you would bring that up when things did turn out great.

I just want you to understand that human are both predictable and unpredictable. The predictableness comes from the fact that what will happen technically are just the cause of what happened and are theorically calculable if we have 100% of understanding of how each individual thinks and the world around us. If you’re confused the let’s just say each decision you make, you only made them because of who you are (personality and all that) during that decision, and how each situation influence you only influence you a certain way because of who you are at that time. The unpredictableness though is that in our current time, we really can’t know 100% how each individual is. Everyone reacts to certain things differently.

I’m just going to use the pronoun I prefer using now.

What makes you so sure that Jazz isn’t going to be develop depressions if adults just keep insist that she’s a boy? I have 3 older siblings and my family members are extremely traditional (Chinese). My father is strict af and thinks that beating is a good way to teach. My eldest brother and sister are now extremely successful, but that doesn’t mean my father’s way of teaching is the right way. Under the same family, I turned out completely different than the rest of my siblings. I completely lack the concept of family, I see my family no different than anyone else. I hate my dad because of what he did and I don’t want my mom to be sad not because she is my mom but because she cares about me. When people say incest is disgusting, I can not relate it in the slightest may also be caused by my lacking of the family concept. That also doesn’t mean I don’t care about my family though I do. But just as much as everyone else and I don’t care about my dad, grandma and one of my sister at all. How the adults taught me to become successful has turned me into someone who really understand what happiness is and doubt myself in everything, but if someone else were to be me, they might become the happiest person as possible.

I understand that there are people who regrets transition, but there are also people who gets depressed for not doing it earlier. What makes you think the ones who transitioned would not regret not transitioning anyway if they haven’t or that the ones who did not would also regret if they did transition. In the end, no one knows for a certain what’s good for anyone, so I would just hope people stop pretending they know everything. Don’t be like me though who doubt everything I say because of how I was constantly punished for doing nothing other than (in my mind) being alive which wasn’t even a choice to begin with.

If I were to feel regret, I’d rather it be my fault from my own action than to have the feeling of regret simply by existing (others decide your action as if they know any better than you). I get it, people make mistakes and regret, some people may have been better off not transition, but that’s exactly the point of the professional being there to evaluate in the first place which most people who are against trans will never remind you of their existent eventhough you subconciously acknowledges them. They may not be perfect, but they’re doing their best.

A mental disorder that should be fixed with aligning the mind with the body, and not the other way around.