are you pro-life or pro-choice? (read OP)

I believe all black lives matter, even the ones others think don't. We should protect rather than kill innocent human life.

@ordinaryalan: I mean, it wouldn't be your decision though. It would be the couple who's getting the abortion who decides.

Pro-death

My point is by aborting, you're making the decision to end someone's life. Why is that something you're allowed to decide?

@ordinaryalan: I believe the counterargument would be you cannot end something that hasn't begun.

Yes, that seems to be the most common counterargument. Logically my follow up question would be, when do you believe life begins? For me, that's at conception.

For me, it is a complex issue. I can understand arguments for both conception and birth. I don't like the idea of abortion, but the reality is a lot more complicated. Part of me considers it life at the point of viability. I'm open to Pro-Life arguments though.

But is never letting it begin any better than ending it once it has?

I'm really conflicted about this matter because, on the one hand, I do think killing potential life is wrong. I don't devalue the significance of an offspring just because it is in its early stages of life and lacking the form that it would eventually take shape.

On the other hand, I do think there are cases where abortion can serve a good purpose. Such as saving the mother's life if she is in danger in relation to childbirth or in more extreme cases where the mother was raped. I do, however, think that it's a shame when life is aborted because the mother and father were irresponsible only too late to realize they've made a mistake. They end up aborting the pregnancy for the sake of convenience in their own life by not having to take on the financial burdens of raising their offspring. I don't know if this is necessarily wrong or not though.

I also don't think it's logical to think a child is better off aborted if the parents can not provide for it. A child alive even if it is suffering is far better than that same child never existing at all. Still, people seem to think it's a justifiable sacrifice for the sake of keeping away the burden from the mother and/or father and they justify this by saying it's their choice. There's also the complexity of when and what degree the father should have a say in the matter (which he should have a say when there are no medical complications for the mother with regards to the pregnancy). So choices are very important for me I don't think you can justify taking away the right for abortion under certain circumstances, but I feel like if anyone is allowed to do it whenever then it would be us picking and choosing what counts as life or does not. Even then I know it's not that simple so I'm just really befuddled on the matter.

This might be a universal thought, but... unless the mother was raped, had incestuous intercourse, or the pregnancy is afflicting her health (killing her and/or the baby(ies), for better words), then the parent(s) cannot have an abortion.

@spoilerblock: I am pro choice. I feel abortion is moraly a wrong thing to do, one that must be very carefully thought of. But it is a moral choice, it shouldn't be a legal issue.

If abortion is ilegal, you will have women seeking it in the black market, with all the health risks that brings. If abortion is ilegal, you condem a kid who is not ready to be a mother to have a child, probably without a father.

If abortion is ilegal, you condem women to have the kid of their rapists.

Not every case will fall under those three options, but just the thought of those, make me feel women should be given the right to choose.

@dbvse7: question:

Do you have kids?

@buckwheat:

"If abortion is ilegal, you condem a kid who is not ready to be a mother to have a child, probably without a father.

If abortion is ilegal, you condem women to have the kid of their rapists."

Adoption and other options means that nobody is condemned to have a child they don't want. Rape accounts for 1% of abortions and about 80% agree with it being an exception.

The biggest issue with abortion is that people are idiots. They don’t want to get pregnant, but 95% of them will do everything in their power that can get them pregnant and then cry about it later.

I am opposed to abortion except in cases of rape or if the mother’s life is at risk.

Are you saying that it is better to have a child given into adoption, than to have an early abortion?

Do you realize that children given into adoption are terribly Traumatized ?

On the early stages of pregnancy, there's a chance of around 30% to almost 50% of natural miscarriage, most of which occur without the mother even knowing she was in term. We are talking of a term on which the fetus is in a very early stage of developement.

Listen, I am NOT endorsing abortion. I have two kids and I think abortion is a terrible thing. But women deserve to be able to have the choice.

This is a moral debate. It should not be a legal one, because without option of choice, there's no debate.

I'm pro life

I think it should be legal in cases where the mother's life is in danger or when it's early in the pregnancy.

I think the mother should have to die

@buckwheat: "Are you saying that it is better to have a child given into adoption, than to have an early abortion?"

For sure. Life is better than death. Pretty simple.

My wife had an abortion in her late teenage years, after she became accidentally pregnant from her boyfriend at the time.

If she had gone through with the pregnancy, her boyfriend would have left her, for he was not ready to be a father. She would have been a single teen mom. Without a real job. Without the wealth she has today. And most specially, without been ready to be a mother.

And since she would have not been able to succeed professionally. Never becoming a successful actress. We would have never met. We would have never been married, and our two wonderful children would have never been born.

But instead of that, she had an abortion.

She succeeded on her work. She traveled the world. She grew and matured both physically and mentally.

Years later she got married with the love of her life. We both worked to build a strong familiar environment, suited for the babies we wanted to have.

Today my wife is an incredibly wonderful mother. She had her sons when she was truly ready for it. And our home today is a true blessing.

Because you see, been a mother is more than giving birth. Giving birth is just the beginning.

So, am I in favor of abortion? No. I am not.

In all honesty, I am against it.

But do I believe women deserve to be able to choose when they are ready to become mothers? Yes. I absolutely am.

@buckwheat: What did any of that have to do with adoption? She didn't need to be a single mom without a real job etc. He wasn't ready and neither was she so let someone adopt the child who is ready.

@buckwheat: What about other options? Logically, it can be proven that a fetus is no less of a human than a 20-year-old. We wouldn't kill a 20-year-old, so why a fetus? Most abortions can be avoided if precautions are taken (condoms). Most women don't need the choice of a mistake they made. And I understand situations such as your wife's. But why should a fetus suffer for the crime that her boyfriend committed? Accidental or not. There are other options. Millions of children get adopted every year and go on to live wonderful lives. Wouldn't giving the baby up for adoption have been a better choice? Hospitals aren't gonna just let people deal with stuff like that. They assist in situations as such.

I'm not talking about adoption. I'm talking about the right to chose.

I can assume that you are not a father. No person that has ever seen their newborn son/daughter for the first time would think that giving him/her away would be an option.

I can assure you that even as a teenager, my wife would rather lose her job and everything else, before abandoning her child.

@buckwheat: I'm talking about pure pro-choicers. Not you specifically. I can mostly agree with your view.

@buckwheat: But..... that's exactly what we were talking about. Here is your quote again..."Are you saying that it is better to have a child given into adoption, than to have an early abortion?"

Also your entire argument seems to be about "condem a kid who is not ready to be a mother to have a child" I am telling you that at no point does anyone have to raise a child if they do not want to.

So what is the right to choose? The only choice they are making is that they don't want to carry and give birth to the child...not having to have a child too early or inconveniently. I'm not even arguing with you about whether they should have the right to choose. I'm just pointing out that yes adoption is better than abortion and that no woman needs to raise a child they don't want.

are there organizations where you can give your babies away if you dont want or cant raise them?

I must insist that I am against abortion.

I just think that it should be a moral debate, not a legal one.

I can assume that you are not a father. No person that has ever seen their newborn son/daughter for the first time would think that giving him/her away would be an option.

I can assure you that even as a teenager, my wife would rather lose her job and everything else, before abandoning her child.

@buckwheat: Here's my only problem with legality. Well, morally there's no substantiation for abortion and that can't be argued. But I don't think idiots deserve a choice. A lot of abortions are because of recklessness. If a pair just don't give a shit about the consequences and have unprotected sex anyway, why do they deserve a choice? Why should it be legal for them? I understand certain situations in which the law should "potentially" support it, but not the dumb ones.

Also, glad you have a great family going :D

@arthur_morgan: Yes. The hospital will take care of that if you tell them. Most likely, adoption.

@boutatakeanl: do you have to still pay for the child ?

@arthur_morgan: You don't have to pay child support or anything. Most of them are free.

I am very much against abortion. The right to choose is very important especially during unintentional pregnancy wherein the mother was raped/etc but the fetus does not deserve death and being robbed of its potential life/existence because of a mistake or plain outright irresponsibility/stupidity. Don't kill it, whether you did or didn't get yourself in the position to have to contemplate this decision.

If the mother's life isn't in danger due to the pregnancy, don't get the abortion.

@boutatakeanl: so why do ppl do abortion?

that makes it alot worse than it already is lmao.

and ppl actually debate in favor of abortion LOL.

unless its about health and the chances of the baby surviving without permanent damage and the mother , too.

@arthur_morgan: I agree. 90% of abortions can't be justified. Take rape for example. What's greater? The life of a being or traumatization? We don't live in a utopia. We never will. The lesser of two evils is letting the baby live and give it to adoption. Pro-choice has no logical backing. However, there are very rare instances where it could potentially be an option.

@void_reborn:Just a friendly reminder. I did PM you. IDK if you don't have time to respond, you don't want to, or you're getting to it. IDK, just reminding.

I believe that the baby is a human life, and thus, I am against abortion, as the forcible ending of human life is immoral. Pro-life all the way.

Let me guess... You are a male and you've never been in a long term relationship. Right?

You could not be more wrong as you are with a lot about this entire topic.

I know, worry not. I am gathering some info for your recent statements and questions. I think we will have quite an interesting discussion ahead.

Also, I tend to procrastinate on messages more than posting on the forums so it takes longer for me to respond. It's not because I don't want to.

@void_reborn: No problem at all! I was just wondering XD. I can totally understand.

Really? I thought that the universal thought was... that idiots should be aborted, and if it's to late for that, put to sleep.

@doctornowadays said:

More for the slaughter, I guess.

I just cannot picture that anyone that has experienced parenthood would talk of giving his/her child away so easily.

I guess we are all different.

By the way, just because I don't agree with your opinion, does not make me wrong.

Yup. You included, if it was me deciding.

You don't sound too bright.