Is AOS REALLY set in the actual MCU?

Yes it is. And no, its not a plot hole for characters to not directly reference the things that you want them to.

@paytience: What are you talking about? Jed Whedon said it won't address the snap. It takes place 1 year after infinity war.

Yeah the issue is that they said "Thanos is beginning his attack as we speak" and "Have you seen all this crazy stuff happening in New York?" in s5.

I don't get the logic that can exist for it being one year after this and also before the snap. Jeph Loeb said something along the lines of "us writers/showrunners, we have a logic in our heads for how this works" and conveniently neglected to actually tell us what this logic is.

I love AoS to death as a fan/viewer/etc., but I'm treating it as its own thing now. It was connected up 'til Infinity War, imo.

As of now, they are definitely not on the same continuity, as the show didn't acknowledge the snap even after one year of the event.

@achievedhero: I'm talking about the link I shared to the article which you clearly didn't read.

"We're actually pre-Snap," producer Jeff Bell says.

Co-showrunner Jed Whedon echoed the sentiment, saying it was the safest way to keep the show on track.

"For the multiple reasons, we had to do that," Whedon admits. "One of the main ones being that we were not positive when season 6 would air. We were pretty sure it was going to be in the summer, but if they moved us up to January and we had tied into in any way, it would’ve destroyed everything. So the safest course of action for all parties involved was for us to stay pre-Snap."

AoS Season Six being pre-snap isn't feasible. Thanos' assault on Earth was directly referenced in the final few episodes of Agents of SHIELD Season Five, with Season Six immediately telling us that we pick up one year later.

This feels like Loeb et al. were out of the loop because Feige doesn't acknowledge their existence and they're now desperately trying to paper over the cracks as best they can to maintain their "it's all connected" narrative in order to continue to make money off the MCU brand.

I wish they'd just accept that they are different universes, the MCU Feigeverse and the Marvel TV Loebverse. Let the shows stand on their own.

@rogueshadow: It's def feasible. The team was taken to the future in early 2017. Fitz was captured by Hale and kept for 6 months. They returned after that. The only reason it feels like we should reference it to IW is because of the big midseason gap for us, but really there is no reason to. It isn't season 6 being pre snap that doen't make sense. It's season 5 ending on the snap. That doesn't make sense with the timeline we were given.

Also, it literally only affects 2 episodes, if that.

Are we sure they left in early 2017? The wiki (however trustworthy the people who work out the dates there are) says it took place in May. I don't remember them giving a date on the show. If they were taken more in line with when the show aired, which I generally assume unless there is conflicting evidence, then this would make it early 2018 when they return and closer to Infinity War.

But honestly, either way, we know they returned and soon after Thanos attacked because they chose to directly reference Thanos' attack at the end of season five, even making it a major plot-point, using it as a key motivator in Graviton's haste to accrue more Gravitonium/power:

What are you saying? Thanos and his forces have begun an assault on your world, - even as we speak.

Well, then, I've got to get down there with the Avengers and take on this Thanos.

Thanos' strength is unrivaled.

Whether or not it makes sense Jed/Maurissa explicitly chose to align with IW at the end of season 5. Yet season six states we pick up one year later. Which should be slap bang in the middle of the 5 year gap between IW/EG. Now they're backtracking as it becomes clear that doesn't work.

It's also worth noting what Ming Na Wen said:

‘I think at this point it’s safe to say that we have departed from following the [Marvel] cinematic universe in that sense, and are just telling our own stories and our own situations.’

@rogueshadow: And now the show runners arebretconning that. It's not the firstnone to hapoen in the MCU.

Also, they only referenced Thanos once in the presenttense. Literally in one of the last episodes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e6UHeZTRY_c

That was literally the only reference to Thanos being there. It could easily be edited out and not affect the story line whatsoever, or it could simply be handwaved away as the confederacy trying to manipulate Talbot. A lot of ways to look at it.

Either way, showrunners have said this is where we are.

In my eyes what they've said and the fixes you've suggested are essentially attempts to retcon and push aside the reality that there is a complete disconnect between Marvel Entertainment and Marvel Studios, one that has existed for years, one that existed even before Feige got out from under Perlmutter and has only widened since. To the point that I don't think Marvel TV has any idea what' happening in the movies anymore, which is why we're getting major inconsistencies like this.

Loeb is desperately trying to push off this truth and perpetuate the "it's all connected" idea to make $ and it's disingenuous and unfair to AoS fans in my opinion, and fans of any of the other shows. He's setting up false expectations, Feige isn't gonna crossover/acknowledge them, Feige himself has floated the idea of "repetition" when it comes to the Marvel IPs used by Marvel Entertainment. It's only a matter of time before some rebooted Colleen Wing shows up in the Shang-Chi movie or they introduce a new Ghost Rider in a Doctor Strange sequel.

Gave up hoping they are in the main MCU after the end of season 1

@rogueshadow: You know Spider-Man homecoming placed ITSELf eight years post Avengers on the timeline, right? That means it supposedly takes place four years after civil war, which means it takes place between Infinity War and Endgame during the time Peter was snapped. That's the canon you have to fit this show in and you can't pull it off? But for some reason AOS has to fullfill a way higher standard then the movies themselves.

But that was directly addressed by Marvel Studios itself as an error. By Feige. The film studios simply never bother to acknowledge the shows and now they're releasing they're own slew of shows Feige is going out of his way to clarify is canon.

It's also far easier to say that the onscreen cue "8 years later" was a mistake and the time-frame was smaller. But there's no getting around the fact that AoS S6, regardless of whether or not it's a week or a year later, is post Thanos' attack, it has to be post snap, between IW and EG. That's far harder to explain.

AOS is not canon to the MCU, the MCU is canon to AOS.

They don't give enough of a shit to even disavow it outright.

Thing is, they writers had no idea what would happen in Endgame. So it's not really their fault. IIRC, they knew what was going to happen in the previous movies to have references and connections, like the famous TWS connection, Coulson's conversation with Maria Hill before AoU and... I'm assuming... IW where it looked like they referenced the Black Order attacking New York - although I guess now they're trying to change this due to the initial point of them not knowing what's going on in A4.

It's one way canon from the looks of it.

@rogueshadow: @the_magister: @paytience:

I might be wrong, but even with what Paytience said, there's technical problems. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot, which took place between Season 4 and Season 5, therefore before what Paytience is describing as references to "Wakanda" and "Civil War", had Yo-Yo forced to sign the Sokovia Accords. In addition, we were given direct connections to the Sokovia Accords even before Season 3 ended. It's literally impossible that Season 5 referenced Civil War instead of the events in Infinity War, which is the Black Order attacking New York and Thanos arriving on Earth, and "multiple bogies above Wakanda". In the AoS timeline, CW - which lasted no more than a few days - was occuring during the late S3/Slingshot/early S4 phase. Connecting the events to late S5 makes no sense whatsoever, months have passed since then, and there's evidence of this.

Yoooooo hahahahahahahahaha

@monsterstomp:

Alrighty I'm editing that

@anthp2000: Bro...season 3 is not affecred at all. Why is that even a thought? The ONLY thing that shifts is the date at which they returned to their own timeline. Literally everythingnup until the last episode can remain the same, and maybe amend Fitz's time captured.

@paytience:

What does the quote about New York at the end of S5 mean to you then? What are these crazy stuff? It's Ebony Maw fighting Stark and Strange in New York, right? Otherwise, what is it?

@anthp2000: as far as I know the writers knew the basic plot of Endgame, but they didn't know when the show was going to air. To dodge the problem completely, since they couldn't spoil anything until Endgame happened, they decided not to address the movies completely.

Still, Jeff Loeb said that there is a way this new season of AoS is still canon, and the clues are all there. Since I've already seen the first two episodes, I'll put under spoilers that I think they're aiming for some sort of multiverse / alternate reality.

Phil Coulson and Lady Sif was in it. They also had Kree in it and they mentioned Hulk punched a dent in Vibranium

No, but it desperately wishes it was.