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#101 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

I love the poor defense on the comments here about SJW being bashed for know reason. That's like saying "oh boy, more senseless bashing on KKK again." Lol

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#102 Posted by ki_lluminati (43 posts) - - Show Bio

cant wait to watch it ! i hope this motivates me to do mma again !

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#103 Edited by xsbrx (205 posts) - - Show Bio

All of a sudden MCU fans sound awfully like DCEU ones. lmao

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#104 Posted by jeanvaljean11 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

Just stared watching and....it's really bad. Some of actions looks so fake and silly it's hurting my eyes. But I will watch the whole thing and having in mind that Defenders with my favorites Matt and Jessica commin this year.

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#105 Edited by IDontLikeBirds (873 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm watching it and honestly it feels those who say it's really bad or terrible, are making hyperbolic statements. It's not great and compared to the other MCU Netflix shows, it doesn't hit those high marks. However, I still enjoy it, the action is solid, Danny is a likeable character who is dramatically different than all the others (in the Netflix MCU) who are more broody. The show doesn't come off nearly as dark as the others. There are things to work on with the show, but it's enjoyable. It doesn't hit a cord like the other shows on Netflix did. I think it just is seen as bad in comparison to the other MCU Netflix shows because those really raised the bar. I'm only on episode 5 by the way.

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#106 Edited by TheThe (1847 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus, it's really bad. I so wanted to like it, but i can't. It's ridiculous, my god.

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#107 Posted by Dark_Stranger (372 posts) - - Show Bio

Saw all of it.

It's not bad or terrible, but not good or great either. It overall was just so/so.

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#108 Posted by apg103 (210 posts) - - Show Bio

5 Reasons You Should Watch Marvel's Iron Fist?

How about one: He's Iron fist!

Damn these boards just keep getting lamer and lamer. Defiantly going back to Newserama.

R.I.P Comicvine

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#109 Posted by SP4RT4N (85 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil set the bar too high for these shows. If Danny gets a mask in Defenders or IF season 2, I'll try and like it, but so far I'm not impressed. Marvel should've used Ghost Rider in a Netflix series instead of wasting him in AoS.

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#110 Edited by GeeWhiz (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, I made a very similar comment on Yahoo. No, I don't think I missed the point. Most "white savior" complaint are bogus. To me, it's just like "cultural appropriation" in that it is a attempt to vilify natural behavior.

Why do many American films that deal with a foreign culture have a white male lead? It's not because of some nefarious evil white man plot to steal other people's culture and make it their own or to show that other cultures are "done wrong" and need a white man to save them.

It's because they are an American film that is targeted for an American audience. That's really the simple reason. It's the same reason why Hong Kong films usually feature and all Asian cast and when they deal with Americans, it's done from the perspective of the Asian lead. Take a look at movies like "Once Upon a Time in China and America" and the "Ip Man" movies from Donny Yen. In the past American was mostly white, so most films will feature a white male lead. As America diversifies, we'll naturally see more diversity in our films and TV shows.

Please don't take offense at this, since I'm not specifically addressing you. One of the reasons I really don't like it when a non-Asian tries to lecture me on "missing the point" about race issues is because it feels like a "white savior" is trying to save me from myself. I'm the one that has the life experiences of being an Asian in American (and yes, I have experienced lots of racism in my 53 years of living) but I'm being lectured by a young non-Asian kid about why I should be offended by something I'm not.

To me, the world already has a lot of real racial issues but let's not make things worse by making up fake things to be offended about.

BTW, I've just watched two episodes of Iron Fist and I like it a lot. To me, it's a lot better than Luke Cage which was a huge disappointment for me. I hope the rest of the episodes continue to be as good (Luke Cage just got worse for me). It looks like "The Hand" is the villain in this show and they seem very mysterious and dangerous. In Luke Cage, it just seems like Luke was way too powerful for the simple gang villains in his show. Hopefully, Luke and Danny will have great chemistry in the upcoming Defenders show.

I like Finn Jones as Danny Rand and I feel really bad at the crap he went through on Twitter. I also like the actress who plays Colleen Wing and the actress who plays Joy.

@geewhiz said:
@dark_stranger said:

Is the negativity about how the show is handled or another PC thing about the character not being Asian?

Cause I'm hearing more about the PC crap then anything about the show itself.

Which is stupid to begin with. Considering that Danny Rand has always been a Caucasian from the very beginning. So suddenly making him Asian or whatever just for some PC nonsense, is rather silly IMO.

The negative stuff I'm hearing seems mostly about having a white male cast as Iron Fist. As an 53 year old Asian male (American born of Chinese descent) who is a long time comic book fan since the 70's, I have no problems and approve of the casting of Iron Fist. He's a white guy in the comics and should be played by a white male.

I'm really sick and tired of the social justice warriors creating needless controversy. A lot of the complainers aren't even Asian and I think it's ridiculous when they try to lecture me on why I should be offended. The whole concept of cultural appropriation is stupid. People have been adopting elements from other cultures they have encountered throughout history and every race/culture has done it. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

You commented on another article about this didn't you? I read this exact response word for word someplace else, and it seemed, that despite your ethnicity, you missed the point of why people were upset about the cultural appropriation and the "white savior" character that tends to happen (just like in The Last Samurai for example). It's one thing to imitate, it's another to adopt it as your own and show it off as "see, you were doing it wrong", which is the vibe some get from the "white savior" character. Now I"m not saying I agree with the arguments or even that having Danny Rand be of Asian decent would help (I feel that it would be a lose/lose and be accused of stereotyping). I just can see their point.

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#111 Posted by donmeca2020 (1420 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that i got up to 6 episodes thus far, my comment can be abit more thorough... the show started building up on episode 2, and from there it has been great. Good amount of action and good acting. This by far is not on daredevil level but i feel this is better then both jessica jones and luke cage.

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#112 Posted by donmeca2020 (1420 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that i got up to 6 episodes thus far, my comment can be abit more thorough... the show started building up on episode 2, and from there it has been great. Good amount of action and good acting. This by far is not on daredevil level but i feel this is better then both jessica jones and luke cage.

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#113 Posted by KingKaijuice (90 posts) - - Show Bio

@geewhiz: White savior complex has nothing to do with evil plots though. It has to do with arrogance and representation.

Even your comment has a level of arrogance. American does not equal white. They don't make white characters to appeal to American audiences. They do it to appeal to White american audiences. It's the reason why majority of comic book characters are white. Because of the perceived notion, that majority of the reader base, was white children(teens,men) and the creators themselves were also white.

It's not evil. It's not dastardly or some kind of plot to get rid of people of color. But the bias does exist. and it doesn't need to exist. You don't even have to be offended by it.

And of course plenty of the people complaining about Iron Fist, have never read the comics. They are more than likely just now learning that he even exists. But like many super heroes, he's ridiculous. So when your not attached to the history and existence of a character, it's easier to see their flaws. But we can't pretend like the flaws of his characters white savior complex don't exist(he's not the only character) or that plenty of comic book fans haven't criticized that aspect already.

Or simply put with all comic adaptions involving any kind of plot "Just because it was like that in the comics, only makes it reliable to the comics, it doesn't make it good by default."

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#114 Posted by newecho (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

The show is great. It's just not dark like the other Netflix marvel shows. It's much better than cage and the second season of daredevil and is much better than any of the network shows including flash..

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#115 Posted by blacharrt (1925 posts) - - Show Bio

@geewhiz: Too bad for you, because as a black geek, i loved it. And though you may not understand the nuances of navigating black culture, it was a pretty good show. Were there misstep sure, killing cottonmouth so early i didn't like personally and the whole brother thing seems to come out of left field, but in terms of the plot it was believable, but all first seasons to any show have those missteps.

There was nothing wrong with the relationship between Pops and Luke, as explained through flashbacks, Pops was a former criminal reformed and helped those people who needed it. Luke appreciated the fact that Pops respected his privacy, hid him, saw that Pops was doing good for the community and trusted him with his secret because he was worthy of it. it doesn't take long at all to build trust, and black barbership culture varies but there are some places that don't allow you to swear.

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#118 Edited by IDontLikeBirds (873 posts) - - Show Bio

Ironically I feel you missed the point of my point. Sure, I'm non-Asian, but that doesn't mean that cultural appropriation can't affect me as I'm still a minority. Not addressing me directly, yet you directly replied to what I said and try to mention my race or difference in it as a point? Now it's interesting you go on to equate American with being white/Caucasian and also try to explain cultural appropriation to me. I was explaining why OTHERS were offended by the show, and even when on to say how I didn't agree with their point, but that I saw it. You commented in a way to straight out say you didn't understand why they were upset. You equated imitating with appropriation, completely different things. It shows that you don't get why others were upset.

Now unrelated to all that, I just finished the series. It wasn't as good as I'd hoped. The race issue is rather moot given the show, but the show just didn't hit the right spot or stride. I enjoyed Colleen a lot and even Danny at times, but there is a lot to be improved on. I actually liked Luke Cage more as it went on. It was obvious the homage they were doing more towards the end and the shift in tone occurred in the third act.

@geewhiz said:

Yes, I made a very similar comment on Yahoo. No, I don't think I missed the point. Most "white savior" complaint are bogus. To me, it's just like "cultural appropriation" in that it is a attempt to vilify natural behavior.

Why do many American films that deal with a foreign culture have a white male lead? It's not because of some nefarious evil white man plot to steal other people's culture and make it their own or to show that other cultures are "done wrong" and need a white man to save them.

It's because they are an American film that is targeted for an American audience. That's really the simple reason. It's the same reason why Hong Kong films usually feature and all Asian cast and when they deal with Americans, it's done from the perspective of the Asian lead. Take a look at movies like "Once Upon a Time in China and America" and the "Ip Man" movies from Donny Yen. In the past American was mostly white, so most films will feature a white male lead. As America diversifies, we'll naturally see more diversity in our films and TV shows.

Please don't take offense at this, since I'm not specifically addressing you. One of the reasons I really don't like it when a non-Asian tries to lecture me on "missing the point" about race issues is because it feels like a "white savior" is trying to save me from myself. I'm the one that has the life experiences of being an Asian in American (and yes, I have experienced lots of racism in my 53 years of living) but I'm being lectured by a young non-Asian kid about why I should be offended by something I'm not.

To me, the world already has a lot of real racial issues but let's not make things worse by making up fake things to be offended about.

BTW, I've just watched two episodes of Iron Fist and I like it a lot. To me, it's a lot better than Luke Cage which was a huge disappointment for me. I hope the rest of the episodes continue to be as good (Luke Cage just got worse for me). It looks like "The Hand" is the villain in this show and they seem very mysterious and dangerous. In Luke Cage, it just seems like Luke was way too powerful for the simple gang villains in his show. Hopefully, Luke and Danny will have great chemistry in the upcoming Defenders show.

I like Finn Jones as Danny Rand and I feel really bad at the crap he went through on Twitter. I also like the actress who plays Colleen Wing and the actress who plays Joy.

@moogman13 said:
@geewhiz said:
@dark_stranger said:

Is the negativity about how the show is handled or another PC thing about the character not being Asian?

Cause I'm hearing more about the PC crap then anything about the show itself.

Which is stupid to begin with. Considering that Danny Rand has always been a Caucasian from the very beginning. So suddenly making him Asian or whatever just for some PC nonsense, is rather silly IMO.

The negative stuff I'm hearing seems mostly about having a white male cast as Iron Fist. As an 53 year old Asian male (American born of Chinese descent) who is a long time comic book fan since the 70's, I have no problems and approve of the casting of Iron Fist. He's a white guy in the comics and should be played by a white male.

I'm really sick and tired of the social justice warriors creating needless controversy. A lot of the complainers aren't even Asian and I think it's ridiculous when they try to lecture me on why I should be offended. The whole concept of cultural appropriation is stupid. People have been adopting elements from other cultures they have encountered throughout history and every race/culture has done it. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

You commented on another article about this didn't you? I read this exact response word for word someplace else, and it seemed, that despite your ethnicity, you missed the point of why people were upset about the cultural appropriation and the "white savior" character that tends to happen (just like in The Last Samurai for example). It's one thing to imitate, it's another to adopt it as your own and show it off as "see, you were doing it wrong", which is the vibe some get from the "white savior" character. Now I"m not saying I agree with the arguments or even that having Danny Rand be of Asian decent would help (I feel that it would be a lose/lose and be accused of stereotyping). I just can see their point.

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#119 Posted by slimj87d (15637 posts) - - Show Bio

Show isn't nearly as bad as all the critics say. Up to episode 6 and thoroughly enjoying it. I hope there's a season 2.

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#120 Posted by GeeWhiz (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Where do I imply that American equals white? Here is what I said:

In the past American was mostly white, so most films will feature a white male lead. As America diversifies, we'll naturally see more diversity in our films and TV shows.

American is much more diversified now than when I was a kid and it will continue to become more diversified as time goes on where pretty soon whites will not be a majority anymore. And a natural consequence of this will be that our films and TV shows will have more diversity going forward. We'll see more shows like "Fresh off the Boat" and "Master of None" and remakes like "Karate Kid" will feature a non-white lead. Hollywood is just like any other business. They cater to their audience.

Ignoring the fact that I never equated American with white, how can I, being an middle aged Asian male, be arrogant about stating that America is still mostly white? The definition of arrogance means being overly prideful. Why should I feel pride about American being equal to white? That makes no sense. I still remember watching Michael Chang playing tennis and being aware that the announcers never really described him as an American player. When I was young, I was always asked where did I come from as if I was a foreigner even though I was born here. So, you really don't know what you are talking about.

@geewhiz: White savior complex has nothing to do with evil plots though. It has to do with arrogance and representation.

Even your comment has a level of arrogance. American does not equal white. They don't make white characters to appeal to American audiences. They do it to appeal to White american audiences. It's the reason why majority of comic book characters are white. Because of the perceived notion, that majority of the reader base, was white children(teens,men) and the creators themselves were also white.

It's not evil. It's not dastardly or some kind of plot to get rid of people of color. But the bias does exist. and it doesn't need to exist. You don't even have to be offended by it.

And of course plenty of the people complaining about Iron Fist, have never read the comics. They are more than likely just now learning that he even exists. But like many super heroes, he's ridiculous. So when your not attached to the history and existence of a character, it's easier to see their flaws. But we can't pretend like the flaws of his characters white savior complex don't exist(he's not the only character) or that plenty of comic book fans haven't criticized that aspect already.

Or simply put with all comic adaptions involving any kind of plot "Just because it was like that in the comics, only makes it reliable to the comics, it doesn't make it good by default."

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#121 Posted by GeeWhiz (154 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm on episode 4 now (I watch 1 episode per day) and I'm really enjoying it. I look forward to watching the next episodes. I really like the sense of the growing threat of the Hand. And I actually care about the characters. I hope Joy stays a good person and friend to Danny. I've read some complaints about Finn Jones's acting but I like it. He acts kind of odd but I attribute that to growing up in K'un-Lun. And I like that this show isn't currently so dark. The action sequences are good (not great) and I can tell that Finn Jones and Jessica Henwick's martial arts skills aren't that great but it's still enjoyable. Hopefully, as they train more they will look better doing it. I hope they have him wearing the Iron Fist costume in the end of the show.

If I had to rank the NetFlix shows, I would put them at

1. Daredevil Season 1

2. Iron Fist

3. Daredevil Season 2

4. Jessica Jones

5. Luke Cage

My rating might change after I watch all the episodes.

@newecho said:

The show is great. It's just not dark like the other Netflix marvel shows. It's much better than cage and the second season of daredevil and is much better than any of the network shows including flash..

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#122 Edited by GeeWhiz (154 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad you liked it. And judging by the reviews, you weren't alone but it just didn't work for me. I wanted to like it because I was really looking forward to it. I also thought Jessica Jones was a little overrated. I had to force myself to finish both Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. I thought both were a little slow paced for me. Although I thought Jessica Jones had a good menacing villain in the Purple man.

@geewhiz: Too bad for you, because as a black geek, i loved it. And though you may not understand the nuances of navigating black culture, it was a pretty good show. Were there misstep sure, killing cottonmouth so early i didn't like personally and the whole brother thing seems to come out of left field, but in terms of the plot it was believable, but all first seasons to any show have those missteps.

There was nothing wrong with the relationship between Pops and Luke, as explained through flashbacks, Pops was a former criminal reformed and helped those people who needed it. Luke appreciated the fact that Pops respected his privacy, hid him, saw that Pops was doing good for the community and trusted him with his secret because he was worthy of it. it doesn't take long at all to build trust, and black barbership culture varies but there are some places that don't allow you to swear.

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#123 Edited by jhonis (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Watched through episode 10 so far. For those that think Iron Fist is not a dark series... well... wait for it.... It gets pretty damn dark in a hurry.

The sad part is Danny Rand is the least interesting and charismatic character (redundant?) in the show. New characters keep being introduced as you go along, and they are all immediately more interesting than the Iron Fist, the frickin living weapon himself. Many plot holes akin to The Green Arrow being able to travel halfway across the world in hours. Thankfully the saving grace of the show so far has been the character progression of Night Nurse, Colleen Wing, and the "evil" corporate big-business that i find myself rooting for just so the plot lines in Defenders will be more vetted.

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#124 Posted by Yung ANcient One (5308 posts) - - Show Bio

I've watched the show to episode 6. I like it. I think the 1st episode was cheesy, and seemed so predictably written. (+)

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#125 Posted by PScully (48 posts) - - Show Bio

First, you can't throw around anti-capitalist sentiment and expect people to be ok with it. Secondly, the beats are odd (maybe on purpose?). Third, I can usually can binge watch for hours on end and fell asleep several times while trying to watch the show. I don't know if that's a hint for me.

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#126 Posted by eenuck (15 posts) - - Show Bio

## This show was great much like other Marvel Netflix show. I would put it up their with the Daredevil series. I think I ended up liking Cage best out of all of them. Most of the series I ended up watching them all as soon as they came out. Jessica Jones was great but wasn't as fast paced as the other but in the end I still thought it was a great show. Can't wait for more. I can only hope they don't mess up the Defender cross over. Calling them a team seems like a bad idea. Most of them haven't really begun using a classic hero name let a alone a team name.

I would list the series like so:

1. Cage *****

2. Dare Devil Season 1 *****

3. Dare Devil Season 2 *****

4. Iron Fist ****

5. Jessica Jones ***

Coming in at Number 4 isn't bad if I would rate it a 4 out of 5 Stars. If I could give it and extra 1/2 star I would. I'm not a big Iron Fist fan I enjoyed the hell out of it and would like to see more.

Have fun all

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#128 Posted by BLACK3STPANTH3R (6210 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually really like the show, I'm on episode 9 and I found each episode intriguing so far. I do think it tackles some interesting conundrums in modern society, like price gouging, and the ambiguous nature of pharmaceutical drugs and street drugs. It even deals with the prescription drug epidemic in the past decade, I also like the theme of resurrection and how much your life and world view changes after everyone thinks that you are dead. I actually really liked Luke Cage and Season 2 of Daredevil, for me Luke Cage was the most culturally relevant show I have ever seen (just my opinion), I could really relate to many aspects of it.

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#129 Edited by ILostTheKey (993 posts) - - Show Bio

It was terrible. The only one I couldn't make my way through.

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#130 Edited by Thunderscream (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

@ilostthekey: I couldn't get through it either, just 5 episodes in. There are obviously tie-ins to the other Marvel Netflix series leading up to the Defenders team-up series....but all of that so severely overshadows this awkward Batman fairytale origin rip-off where we're spared any actual scenes from Danny's past that might offer us a glimpse of an inter-dimensional realm inhabited by mystic monks in favor of him just sitting in a plush New York penthouse telling the radical story to whoever asks like a dim-witted dingleberry. Maybe Danny will fare better in an ensemble, but his solo is the weak link.

*I don't mean that Iron Fist's origin is awkward, it's just presented as such by the show in my opinion.

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#131 Posted by VenomousDragon (1084 posts) - - Show Bio

It's really not that bad and let's real daredevil is the only marvel Netflix series that is really good.

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#132 Posted by arthurkerr (2180 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth: I am amazed people do not look in the mirror and get upset the mirror reflected who they truly are. I like Iron fist and I like Power Man. I hope they both team up well and do justice to the comics they were representing. This is a no brainer.

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#133 Posted by pastepotpete1 (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

ten episodes ?? only ten

why are series doing this ? cutting back on the episodes.. I really liked season 2 but I don't think it was right to cut the episodes down to `10 if I had known it was going to be cut to ten I wouldn't have binged watched it .. that sucks .. I wonder what will come next .. defenders season two or punisher or defenders season two may not come at all being it like what? 7 episodes