You are a citizen of Gotham city. Who would you rather have as your protector: Punisher vs Batman
How bout just the 2 guns I got on me; some of you may call them arms.
Batman nor Punisher could guard the streets or oversee the night like I.
@godzilla44: punisher is a lot more careful than that, he actually got mad at some “fans” of his who tried to duplicate his work without any care for collateral damage.
@solid_snake97: I know that, I just don't need to turn on the news every night and see stories of criminals being killed by a vigilante every time I turn on the news. or having a bunch of places being shut down due to it being a crime scene.
Batman's villains make the news once a month due to starting violent crime and evil plans.
With Punisher they would make the need once, when the cops find the body.
What I find odd is that criminals in Gotham are scared of Batman even though they all know he is not going to kill anyone and just put them in jail, and yet most criminals in NYC are not scared of Punisher, they get attitude.
Batman's villains make the news once a month due to starting violent crime and evil plans.
With Punisher they would make the need once, when the cops find the body.
What I find odd is that criminals in Gotham are scared of Batman even though they all know he is not going to kill anyone and just put them in jail, and yet most criminals in NYC are not scared of Punisher, they get attitude.
Batman
- The Punisher is unstable and unpredictable. I would not want him in my city.
- Batman is willing to work with others. Punisher rarely is, and even on the off chance he does decide to, it never works. When he joined Team Cap in Civil War, it didn't work. When he joined The Thunderbolts, it didn't work. Batman may call himself a loner, but he really isn't. After all, he was a founding member of The Justice League.
- Batman has immense resources he can use to fight crime. The Punisher has a van.
Honestly I just leave Gotham. Also Punisher, not a huge fan of Joker being in a massive kill spree everytime he escape. Is basically a las vegas shooting everytime he escape.
Granted Batman does protect the city from destruction multiple time, and gotten better at saving most bystander. Sure Joker should 100% die, but at least Batman gotten better at saving people even having Superman on stand by if he really need him.
Than again most supervillain in Gotham are there bc of Batman. Not a easy decision.
Tbh a combination of both would be the most efficient street level hero ever. Punisher would easily rid the city in a matter of weeks/months, but he isn't nearly as intelligent enough to actually get to the villains or thwart their plans, so Punisher himself would probably get himself killed within those weeks. Batman on the other hand is a detective that 99% of the time deduces their plans and beats them. So pretty much if we're in a realistic stance, I'd choose Batman because I'm pretty sure a lot of these Gotham villains would catch the death penalty. If we're in comics, I'd probably move to a different city that doesn't have a superhero in it.
Definitely Batman I don't need Frank shooting up my whole neighborhood.
Batman's villains make the news once a month due to starting violent crime and evil plans.
With Punisher they would make the need once, when the cops find the body.
What I find odd is that criminals in Gotham are scared of Batman even though they all know he is not going to kill anyone and just put them in jail, and yet most criminals in NYC are not scared of Punisher, they get attitude.
Batman fosters a reputation in Gotham. The way people think of him in-universe is very much the way fanboys think of him in real life. Inexplicably omnipresent and omniscient. The world's biggest badass who nobody can beat. Dude, I heard Batman's beaten the crap out of Superman before, if he shows up, everything we have going for us is screwed.
In the Marvel universe, Punisher's own efficiency might be his greatest weakness, because nobody who sees his wrath ever gets the chance to tell anybody about it. Logically yes people should be more scared of Punisher, but 99% of Batman's reputation is because of theatricality. The fact that he can get people so afraid of him is a testament to his intelligence. The fact that Frank doesn't invest more effort in a serious reputation and making himself a deterrent over a punisher might indicate that he's less heroic than we think; he might not actually care about long-term safety of the people, he only does what he does for his own sadistic satisfaction.
Batman, the main reason being that killing under most circumstances is wrong.And If you kill someone there’s no chance of them repenting. I know you’re going to say that Joker has been an unrelenting mass murderer for 70 Year’s. True, but that doesn’t mean he and other super villains will never repent.
I’m sure some writer will make him repent/feel remorse at least for a little while, in some crazy new status quo at one point.
I also know a lot of you hate him but like Batfleck said, if there’s even a one percent chance we have to take it as an absolute certainty. That’s actually a good quote.
Move to any other city on the planet
both. batman to be a detective. punisher to move in for the kill. joker obviously wouldnt be able to poison strong people because theyd find his body in a ditch.
Easily Punisher. What good is Batman when his criminals just escape and slaughter more people? Everytime your kids go out, they are at risk of being murdered by people like Joker and Two Face. Punisher would permanently eliminate crime, not just put it in a time-out like Batman does. As for the people saying Punisher isn't intelligent. You do realize that the Punisher is actually highly intelligent and cunning, right? Not only was a a Force Recon Marine, he has trained with the Navy Seals, and has upgraded his own skills on his own time. He is an expert hacker, knows how to use disguises, infiltration, computer coding and a plethora of other skills. He has detailed files on nearly every key character in the Marvel U. and studies them all day. Like Batman, he is a man obsessed. Unlike Batman, he doesn't have an alter ego who has to spend half his day playing nice with high society. He is constantly gathering intelligence and knows how to conduct counter-intelligence operations.
And to the one who said that Punisher only has a van. You do realize that the Punisher has millions of dollars in resources, right? Don't let his bare bones lifestyle fool you. He lives that way out of choice. When you off mobsters left and right, you will accumulate lots of wealth by doing so. How do you think he funds his war against crime? He has safe houses in just about every major city in the world, and keeps weapons caches all throughout most major cities in the U.S. He always has multiple contingency plans for when shit goes wrong. How do you think he's survived as long as he has?
While he will never have the resources that Batman does, Punisher has the means, skills, knowledge, and willingness to end every criminal in Gotham, permanently.
The one who kills his villains so they don't escape and kill more people.
Give me Batman.
I would be deathly terrified to know The Punisher is "watching over us" when I stepped outside. Sure, it's cool and edgy to say something to the effect of "Punisher because he'd get rid of the problem and it won't come back" but from a realistic point of view I am not trying to turn on my TV to hear a vigilante out roaming the streets racking up bodies because they feel justified to play judge, jury, and executioner.
Take The Joker out of the equation and I think Batman has a pretty tight lock on Gotham City. I'd feel more safe knowing Batman was out there patrolling the streets over the madman with intent to kill.
Besides, I don't know how mentally stable Punisher is, I'm sure after a while The Justice League or someone from the DC Universe like Superman would shut him down after he starts taking it too far with killing people. At least with Batman I know if I go meet up with my ice cream man and I get caught he's probably just gonna beat my ass as opposed to running the risk of catching a bullet from The Punisher.
Give me Batman.
I would be deathly terrified to know The Punisher is "watching over us" when I stepped outside. Sure, it's cool and edgy to say something to the effect of "Punisher because he'd get rid of the problem and it won't come back" but from a realistic point of view I am not trying to turn on my TV to hear a vigilante out roaming the streets racking up bodies because they feel justified to play judge, jury, and executioner.
Take The Joker out of the equation and I think Batman has a pretty tight lock on Gotham City. I'd feel more safe knowing Batman was out there patrolling the streets over the madman with intent to kill.
Besides, I don't know how mentally stable Punisher is, I'm sure after a while The Justice League or someone from the DC Universe like Superman would shut him down after he starts taking it too far with killing people. At least with Batman I know if I go meet up with my ice cream man and I get caught he's probably just gonna beat my ass as opposed to running the risk of catching a bullet from The Punisher.
It's "edgy" to choose the Punisher over Batman?? How about I just wouldn't want my girlfriend or future kids getting murdered or raped? How about I just want to feel safe walking the streets at night? How is that for "edgy?" You don't want a vigilante playing executioner? You would prefer mass murderers on the loose who will kill dozens of people on any given night? Batman does not have a tight lock on Gotham, at all. If he did, there wouldn't be any crime. What I consider to be a tight lock is the absence of crime. Which is what the Punisher would ensure. After about a year, Gotham would be murder and crime free. Want to know why? Because all the muggers, rapists, mobsters, burglers, career criminals etc. would be dead. Punisher would turn Gotham into a crime free utopia. The fact that after years, Batman still needs to patrol the city demonstrates that he has failed in his mission. After about a year, all the killers in Gotham would be dead. All the Punisher would need to do at that point would be 'maintenance' to kill any would be new criminals trying to start a new career. The Joker would not longer be in the equation because he would be filled with bullet holes.
The fact that the Justice League might want to stop the Punisher isn't relevant to the argument about whether or not the Punisher would be an effective crime stopper. All it shows is that the JL has the same misguided notions that you do. In your last statement, your argument is based on the fact that the Punisher would endanger your ability to have "fun." Sorry, but preserving your fun Friday nights don't justify stopping murderers and rapists.
Punisher. Do villains in Gotham even stand trial for their crimes? Is the death penalty not a thing in Gotham? Or do the mass murderers just escape Arkham before they've had their day in court?
Frank cuts out the middle man. Judge, jury and executioner.
I'd feel safer with someone actually well equipped to fight the none basic mobsters of Gotham. Hell if I'm in Gotham during zero year and Punisher is our only way out, I might as well just get use to it. No disrespect to Punisher though. Just people always assume Batman's problems would go away if he let someone that kills in the city when that's only half the issue. Punisher isn't equipped to handle the court, the league of assassins, or any issue that takes detective skills such as bouts with Riddler and joker. Franks no idiot but he's far from the world's greatest detective.
Gothams biggest problems are it's supervillains which Frank wouldn't be well equipped to fight. Though he's be great against any of the lower tier mobsters and thugs.
As others have said the most efficient would be a mix between the two like moon knight ( I think?)
@bladeoffury: what villains? The only notable one is still alive
I'd feel safer with someone actually well equipped to fight the none basic mobsters of Gotham. Hell if I'm in Gotham during zero year and Punisher is our only way out, I might as well just get use to it. No disrespect to Punisher though. Just people always assume Batman's problems would go away if he let someone that kills in the city when that's only half the issue. Punisher isn't equipped to handle the court, the league of assassins, or any issue that takes detective skills such as bouts with Riddler and joker. Franks no idiot but he's far from the world's greatest detective.
Gothams biggest problems are it's supervillains which Frank wouldn't be well equipped to fight. Though he's be great against any of the lower tier mobsters and thugs.
As others have said the most efficient would be a mix between the two like moon knight ( I think?)
Frank has taken down some pretty heavy hitters including Hulk and others. Castle is known for his prep. Not to the same degree as batman, but Frank is a paranoid man, and he has contingency plans for taking out every major character in the Marvel U.
The reason batman needs such superb detective skills to take down the likes of Riddler or Joker is because he has to take them down in a non-lethal way. Killing them would negate the issue entirely. Punisher would just put bullets in both their heads. Problem solved, no extra detective skills needed. Problem solved permanently, no more innocents who will fall prey to Joker, etc.
What it boils down to, is anyone who says that non-lethal force is superior to lethal force lacks concern for future murder/rape victims. My only concern is for preserving the lives of the innocent, and as such, I prefer the lethal option. Selecting the non-lethal option is essentially saying "I don't care if innocent people are murdered or raped."
Batman's villains make the news once a month due to starting violent crime and evil plans.
With Punisher they would make the need once, when the cops find the body.
What I find odd is that criminals in Gotham are scared of Batman even though they all know he is not going to kill anyone and just put them in jail, and yet most criminals in NYC are not scared of Punisher, they get attitude.
Why is this a question? No one and I mean NO ONE can handle Gotham like Bats. Like stated above, all of the villains there fear him which is odd because all he does is beat them up and throw them in Arkham. The reason for that being, Batman has transcended well above your regular street leveler, it's why he's the only "regular" guy in the league (despite being probs the most important member). Punisher wouldn't survive a night in Gotham tbh. People are bringing up him just putting a bullet in their heads which is cute, but this is GOTHAM not Marvel's sad comparison of NYC. Gotham isn't just a bunch of crooks that kill and hurt others, it's much bigger than that. Another comment in a different thread put my exact thoughts about this discussion into words better than I could so I will just paste it here.
So the original quote is by @veshark in this thread: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/could-guts-berserk-and-punisher-616-do-better-than-1980051/, but I know not everyone would've wanted to go over to it so I'll just paste it here.
I don't know anything about Guts, so I can't really give a definitive answer, but it's doubtful that Frank would necessarily "do better" than Bruce. I think the Punisher could do an adequate job, but I don't see how Punisher's use of lethal force would improve his chances in Gotham. Batman, as an entity, is designed to tackle the specific threats that Gotham crime presents. His decision to not kill has rarely hampered his success rate, and Batman's effectiveness really comes down to Bruce's intelligence, diverse skill-set, and the ridiculous amount of resources and allies that he possesses.
The Punisher would probably have some success with low-level crooks like Kite-Man and Firefly, or non-powered crime bosses like Penguin and Black Mask. The crime rate would definitely drop if he used lethal force on petty villains and thugs. But the Punisher's brute-force method of crimefighting isn't going to work on all of Batman's rogues' gallery. What happens when Punisher goes up against villains like Joker, Riddler, or Bane; villains who have plans within plans, who think three steps ahead with contingencies, who will complicate Punisher's shoot-to-kill methods with dirty-tricks like civilian hostages or elaborate bomb threats? How will he fare going up against villains who don't share an established relationship with him, like they do with Batman? Villains who will have no problem killing Frank with the most extreme of methods, without giving him a fighting chance to stop them? That's not to say Punisher can't be tactical and intelligent (e.g. Remender's Dark Reign stuff), but not a lot of heroes possess the sheer cunning to go up against a mastermind like Joker besides the Dark Knight.
Or what if Punisher were to deal with Batman's more powerful villains? Ra's al Ghul and his League of Assassins, or the Court of Owls and their Talons. What good is lethal force against enemies who can simply resurrect themselves over and over again, who have had centuries to plan their moves? With armies of loyal followers and billions of assets to support their cause? Another point to note is that Punisher simply lacks the sheer volume of resources that Bruce possesses. He doesn't have a million-dollar company, cutting-edge equipment, established relationships with the city's political and corporate leaders, the police force, the media, the underprivileged; or an intelligence network, or years of experience growing up in Gotham etc. Frank himself rarely works with allies besides one or two people (e.g. Soap in Ennis' Knights run, or Micro, or the lady from Rucka's run etc.), and a war on crime against a whole city on Batman's scale requires an insane amount of manpower/resources. For all his reputation as a loner, much of Batman's success comes from his ability to recruit and inspire people. Or as Morrison puts it: "That's the first truth of Batman. The saving grace. I was never alone."
Also, don't forget the fallout from the Punisher using lethal force. Besides having the full brunt of the GCPD coming down on him, Punisher will also have to contend with Batman's network of allies. Just because Batman is off-planet fighting a god with the League doesn't mean that he'll leave his city unprotected. I don't imagine that a killer vigilante in Gotham is going to sit well with the likes of Nightwing, the Batgirls, Red Robin, the cast of Detective Comics, Signal, Bluebird, the other thousand members of the Batman family. So not only will Frank have to contend with his one-man war on crime, but he also has to deal with the full force of the law and a couple dozen vigilantes trained by the goddamn Batman. The Punisher is usually sequestered in his own corner of the Marvel U, dealing with the scum of humanity. But he generally doesn't operate on the scale that Batman does.
Now, maybe Guts makes it easier, I'd be interested to hear an argument for that. But "he kills!" is hardly the solve-everything solution to Gotham crime that it might sound like. Also, as Batman comics like Morrison and Snyder's runs have suggested, the city often adapts to its heroes by providing them with new challenges. Look at Dick Grayson in The Black Mirror, or future Damian in Batman in Bethlehem. What sort of monsters would Gotham create in response to a killer like the Punisher? Food for thought.
@siremystking52: Frank Castle has resources. He sits on millions of dollars, and he has access to military tech. But he operates like a military commando, which is what he is. Just because Joker and Riddler have plans within plans does not make them bullet proof. Frank is a trained Scout Sniper. Read the book, "Marine Sniper" about the legendary Carlos Hathcock in the Vietnam War. These guys will wait days without moving, using their environment and perfect camouflage and imperceptible stalking, just to take a shot on a target that might only make a 10 second appearance, and kill them from 700 meters away. Frank can also use explosives and booby traps, can attack from underwater (SEAL training). I'm sure he has access to drone tech today. Frank may not be able to solve every riddle (he is a smart man though), but he is more than capable of assassinating nearly anyone in Gotham. A .50 cal sniper rifle will shred Bane, Crock and more. Incendiary/thermite devices with demolitions could take down the likes of clay face. He could use SMAW-NE rounds to ignite the air within, and demolish buildings from 100 meters away. Not to mention every petty crook, killer and rapist would drop to nearly 0 from his basic small arms alone. Frank has gone up against heavy hitters in the Marvel U. and is somewhat considered the batman of the Marvel U. in that he plans and plots for every eventuality.
Also, as for Batman's success rate? I don't think Batman is very successful since murders still occur on a large scale in Gotham. Especially by people who batman has already captured once before...
Punisher. I’d rather a guy who kills the murderers, rapists and terrorists etc than one who just knocks them out, leaves them locked up only for them to break out within a month.
If moving was an option, I’d obviously do that as I don’t know why anyone would choose to stay in Gotham: cheap housing maybe?
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