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Posted by Killer94 (450 posts) 6 months, 8 days ago

Poll: X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills Vs Batman: The Killing Joke: Which is better? (45 votes)

X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills 56%
Batman: The Killing Joke 44%

X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills

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or

Batman: The Killing Joke

No Caption Provided

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#1 Edited by Warlockmage (9298 posts) - - Show Bio

hmm i think GLMKs but its really close

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#3 Posted by MAZAHS117 (12733 posts) - - Show Bio

The Killing Joke

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#4 Posted by TheDeathstroke (2925 posts) - - Show Bio

The Killing Joke for me

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#6 Posted by Yassassin (7701 posts) - - Show Bio

I was underwhelmed by both, but I'll go with TKJ.

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#7 Posted by weatherwitch21 (796 posts) - - Show Bio

God love man kills is one of the best comic stories ever.

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#8 Posted by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

The Killing Joke

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#9 Posted by MrNihal (3208 posts) - - Show Bio

God loves man kills.

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#11 Edited by Ghostodoofus (0 posts) - - Show Bio

The Killing Joke

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#12 Posted by Killer94 (450 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#13 Posted by Wolviesnikt (197 posts) - - Show Bio

God Loves, Man Kills.

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#14 Posted by Kevd4wg (12798 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm actually going to go with God Loves, Man Kills. That was the first comic that showed to me comics could be legitimately good

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#15 Posted by Supermanthor (20208 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

I'm actually going to go with God Loves, Man Kills. That was the first comic that showed to me comics could be legitimately good

when you read this comic for the first time ?

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#16 Posted by Kevd4wg (12798 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by Supermanthor (20208 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by MarlboroMan (2901 posts) - - Show Bio

God loves man kills always have a special spot for me. I love the Killing Joke as well but i wouldn't put it above.

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#19 Posted by IndomitableRegal (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

Close. Killing Joke

Online
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#20 Posted by The_Badman (2725 posts) - - Show Bio

GLMK. Killing Joke is overrated. Its not even in the top 5 Batman graphic novels.

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#21 Posted by deactivated-5c01050c9aaac (88 posts) - - Show Bio

Killing Joke

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#22 Posted by deactivated-5c0937ce9ad57 (73 posts) - - Show Bio

The Killing Joke.

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#23 Posted by Blades24 (24 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills

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#25 Posted by StormShadow_X (16772 posts) - - Show Bio

An x men fan boy so..

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#26 Posted by Supermanthor (20208 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Edited by Drveo08 (483 posts) - - Show Bio

The Killing Joke is maybe the one of the greatest CB/GN in history and IMO perhaps one the greatest Superhero tale ever told.

It explored the dynamics between the Hero and the villain in a more psychological level and explored one of the many possible origin tales of the Joker.

But the real genius of TKJ is its deconstruction of the superhero genre. Along with Watchmen, TKJ dealt with the typical tropes found in a superhero comic.

While God Loves, Man Kills is an embarrassing early 80s effort from Marvel as they allegedly attempt to address racism in this book. It's embarrassing because of the ham-fisted way Chris Claremont goes about it - the bad guys are cartoonishly bad while the question of racism is never really addressed in any meaningful way. It's like reading a child's attempt at writing a grown-up book.

Stryker is the crazy fire-and-brimstone preacher/demagogue that is the go-to archetype for hack writers when they want to portray a contemporary American villain type and I'm sure most Christians would be disgusted to even be considered on the same side as this lunatic. He's so one-dimensional that you can't take him seriously even for a second so that his character completely scuttles the story all by himself.

The X-Men meanwhile somehow find Stryker's Purifiers a challenge - they're just conventional henchmen with guns - but only because there wouldn't be a story if they didn't. It's such a contrived setup, written in Claremont's trademark exposition-everywhere style which weighs down entire panels with unnecessary thought bubbles telling you what's happening on the page if you're too stupid to understand from the drawings.

Moreover, this kind of book is totally pointless - the X-Men were created out of the civil rights movement. The story of the X-Men has always been a metaphor for black people or any oppressed group in society. Writing something as on-the-nose as God Loves, Man Kills is redundant because every X-Men story deals with prejudicial hatred and what being an outsider is like.

It's a waste of time talking about how someone like Stryker could gain the kind of prominence that he does in this book - mostly because he couldn't, not in the 80s, not now, not ever - or that any large group of people could consider him in the least bit credible - the resemblances to Hitler are too similar, deliberately so - instead, God Loves, Man Kills is too stupid to even discuss sensibly as its too extreme.

About the only good thing the book has going for it is that it partially influenced Bryan Singer's X2, the best X-Men movie to date, though Singer turned the story toward a gay rights focused direction (the contemporary civil rights struggle) and jettisoned the right wing Christian nonsense making his story far better in the process. It's also worth noting that Magneto's philosophical viewpoint is explored which would go on to define the character in the years that followed

Brent Anderson's art is just ok - it's very dated thanks to the characters' outfits while the X-Men themselves look very thick for some reason (not stupid just overly solid). The danger room sequence in particular is a laughable attempt at injecting excitement into the story (remember this is supposed to be about racism) and only serves to underline how limited the artist's imagination was in conceiving such clunky "futuristic" apparatuses. I suppose there is a kind of charm to those desk-sized computer designs. Also if you're a fan of Astro City, Anderson's style isn't as accomplished there as it is here (though to be honest I'm not a fan of his work in AC either).

God Loves, Man Kills is a really overrated book that's hopelessly dated, badly written, poorly conceived and executed, and does nothing to memorably or intelligently talk about racism ("it's bad" is about as deep as it gets). Granted, a couple of its ideas went on to become developed in more interesting X-Men works but it's not enough to salvage this sloppy, stupid mess of a comic.

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#28 Posted by Killer94 (450 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#29 Posted by Marvelx13 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

Never read either but I love X-Men and kinda hate Batman

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#30 Posted by infantfinite128 (5869 posts) - - Show Bio

The Killing Joke

@drveo08 said:

The Killing Joke is maybe the one of the greatest CB/GN in history and IMO perhaps one the greatest Superhero tale ever told.

It explored the dynamics between the Hero and the villain in a more psychological level and explored one of the many possible origin tales of the Joker.

But the real genius of TKJ is its deconstruction of the superhero genre. Along with Watchmen, TKJ dealt with the typical tropes found in a superhero comic.

While God Loves, Man Kills is an embarrassing early 80s effort from Marvel as they allegedly attempt to address racism in this book. It's embarrassing because of the ham-fisted way Chris Claremont goes about it - the bad guys are cartoonishly bad while the question of racism is never really addressed in any meaningful way. It's like reading a child's attempt at writing a grown-up book.

Stryker is the crazy fire-and-brimstone preacher/demagogue that is the go-to archetype for hack writers when they want to portray a contemporary American villain type and I'm sure most Christians would be disgusted to even be considered on the same side as this lunatic. He's so one-dimensional that you can't take him seriously even for a second so that his character completely scuttles the story all by himself.

The X-Men meanwhile somehow find Stryker's Purifiers a challenge - they're just conventional henchmen with guns - but only because there wouldn't be a story if they didn't. It's such a contrived setup, written in Claremont's trademark exposition-everywhere style which weighs down entire panels with unnecessary thought bubbles telling you what's happening on the page if you're too stupid to understand from the drawings.

Moreover, this kind of book is totally pointless - the X-Men were created out of the civil rights movement. The story of the X-Men has always been a metaphor for black people or any oppressed group in society. Writing something as on-the-nose as God Loves, Man Kills is redundant because every X-Men story deals with prejudicial hatred and what being an outsider is like.

It's a waste of time talking about how someone like Stryker could gain the kind of prominence that he does in this book - mostly because he couldn't, not in the 80s, not now, not ever - or that any large group of people could consider him in the least bit credible - the resemblances to Hitler are too similar, deliberately so - instead, God Loves, Man Kills is too stupid to even discuss sensibly as its too extreme.

About the only good thing the book has going for it is that it partially influenced Bryan Singer's X2, the best X-Men movie to date, though Singer turned the story toward a gay rights focused direction (the contemporary civil rights struggle) and jettisoned the right wing Christian nonsense making his story far better in the process. It's also worth noting that Magneto's philosophical viewpoint is explored which would go on to define the character in the years that followed

Brent Anderson's art is just ok - it's very dated thanks to the characters' outfits while the X-Men themselves look very thick for some reason (not stupid just overly solid). The danger room sequence in particular is a laughable attempt at injecting excitement into the story (remember this is supposed to be about racism) and only serves to underline how limited the artist's imagination was in conceiving such clunky "futuristic" apparatuses. I suppose there is a kind of charm to those desk-sized computer designs. Also if you're a fan of Astro City, Anderson's style isn't as accomplished there as it is here (though to be honest I'm not a fan of his work in AC either).

God Loves, Man Kills is a really overrated book that's hopelessly dated, badly written, poorly conceived and executed, and does nothing to memorably or intelligently talk about racism ("it's bad" is about as deep as it gets). Granted, a couple of its ideas went on to become developed in more interesting X-Men works but it's not enough to salvage this sloppy, stupid mess of a comic.

I appreciate this write up.

What X-Men stories do you consider among the best? Thanks.