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#51 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:

@rem:

she didn’t hurt him with the bullrush but couldbe so if she damn pleases due to her sword. Diana Not hurting super man is irrelevant. The fact that if she would’ve used her sword in that fight it would be game over. Also. We Don’t even know if he’s faster than her yet. Diana being frozen was falling speed. The only thing we’ve saw of super man being faster than her was when he blitzed her when she tried to do a bracelet clash And she couldn’t do anything about that.

What do you mean falling speed? She wasn't nearly fast enough to react to him that's why she was essentially still. Superman is much faster, we do know that, as he's reached movement speeds of Mach 900 and has entered Slow-Mo where everyone is a statue, and generally is faster than combat. Fact is she isn't tagging him so easily, a few hits will put her down however.

Its kind of hard to move If you’re in a chokehold. Fact is, usually people aren’t moving when they’re falling. Other than that scene, we have no proof that super man is faster. Super man has gone at Mach 900 in travel speed.

In a small tv spot he bullrushed Arthur and he couldn’t react. It was much faster than the deleted scene of cyborg blocking the car an dsaving the cop in justice league.

I'll check if this is true later.

Not denying that but Nam ek has no way to hurt stepphenwolf. He’s currently weaker than a present JL super man and Stephen wolf wasn’t phased by his punches.

Did we watch the same film? Superman hit him with one punch and he was stunned for around 10 seconds, yet you claim he "wasn't phased", such BS. Steppenwolf was a clown to Superman. But when Nam Ek was hitting Superman, he was downed and injured, also note Superman could tank Mountain Busting crashes.

ok, sorry It’s not that serious. What I meant as that stepphenwolf no visible damage to super man. The only time he did was when Arthur stabbed him and he was bleeding.

Faora was eventually beaten due to the fact that super man punched her in the face and broke her mask.

She pretty much beat him. Only reason Faora was defeated was because Superman blitzed her while she was talking to Colonel Hardy, and the blitz damaged her mask, so she was unable to breath, as she had not adapted to Earth's atmosphere.

Agreed.

I'd be happy to CaV Faora vs Steppenwolf.

I could easily be convinced that Flora would beat stepphenwolf.

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#52 Posted by Subline (5217 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem:

Its kind of hard to move If you’re in a chokehold. Fact is, usually people aren’t moving when they’re falling. Other than that scene, we have no proof that super man is faster. Super man has gone at Mach 900 in travel speed.

He's much faster in Combat too, he showed the same level of speed as The Flash, who is much faster than Diana.

ok, sorry It’s not that serious. What I meant as that stepphenwolf no visible damage to super man. The only time he did was when Arthur stabbed him and he was bleeding.

Steppenwolf didn't hurt Superman, Nam Ek / Faora did. They also tanked Supermans hits, unlike Steppenwolf. They're also Supersonic, Steppenwolf isn't. The Kryptonians are just better combatants.

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#53 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:

@rem:

Its kind of hard to move If you’re in a chokehold. Fact is, usually people aren’t moving when they’re falling. Other than that scene, we have no proof that super man is faster. Super man has gone at Mach 900 in travel speed.

He's much faster in Combat too, he showed the same level of speed as The Flash, who is much faster than Diana.

Couple things.

Superman is not the same level of speed as the flash. The flash is at least 3 Mach’s faster than him. If they were close that the flash wouldve immediately died in the JL fight.

second, we’ve seen diana (in falling speed, again) react to the flash giving her her sword. Now, when falling straight down it’s extremely hard to catch things, and she’s proved that she can hand with the flash speed wise,and superman is much slower than him.

ok, sorry It’s not that serious. What I meant as that stepphenwolf no visible damage to super man. The only time he did was when Arthur stabbed him and he was bleeding.

Steppenwolf didn't hurt Superman, Nam Ek / Faora did. They also tanked Supermans hits, unlike Steppenwolf. They're also Supersonic, Steppenwolf isn't. The Kryptonians are just better combatants.

Stepphenwolf didnt hurt superman because he wasn’t able to land a single blow on him due to his speed. We have yet to know he has the strength too or not.

when Has faora been supersonic. The fastest she’s been in combat is 700 mph.And nam Ek is much slower than her. Stepphenwolf, on the other hand is faster than Diana in combat speed. If we assume that superman is faster than her.

we know this because when stepphenwolf attacked superman, he was in slow motion but when diana did, she was frozen. (Going by your logic)

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#54 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline I put Mera and ocean master underwater above Aquaman and I moved black manta down a tier.

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#55 Posted by Subline (5217 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem: Aquaman should be higher, he can now control the underwater animals like the Kraken.

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#56 Edited by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:

@rem: Aquaman should be higher, he can now control the underwater animals like the Kraken.

Pre trident Aquaman would’ve died in that gladiator match if Mera wouldn’t have saved him

Post trident Aquaman still fought orm on the surface because he could not beat him underwater and I think that Mera is solidly above Aquaman. What tier do you think he should be in?

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#57 Posted by Subline (5217 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem: Aquaman alone is not that great, but if with control of creatures like the Kraken he should be a solid high tier.

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#58 Edited by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline: I updated it and put Karathen as a high tier, but not Aquaman. Not too sure where to put black manta.

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#59 Posted by Subline (5217 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem: Why is Doomsday above Karathen?

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#60 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:

@rem: Why is Doomsday above Karathen?

Because he has actual quantifiable feats.

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#61 Posted by JediXMan (42088 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman should be considered low-high tier. Ocean Master is more skilled than he is, but I don't think the gap is that wide.

The argument can be made that Karathen is a similar level to Doomsday. She was fighting off several Atlantian armies casually.

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#62 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: IIRC OM is far above AM underwater. I don’t think Karathen has enough quantifiable feats to put her on the same level of DD.

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#63 Posted by JediXMan (42088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem said:

@jedixman: IIRC OM is far above AM underwater. I don’t think Karathen has enough quantifiable feats to put her on the same level of DD.

Arthur got a few decent hits in. It was a gap is skill, not power. Power-wise, I'm not sure Ocean Master did anything Arthur couldn't do. He was just better trained than Arthur under water.

She probably doesn't. But it's still a good feat. She was taking volleys of hits from a significant Atlantian armada and she was just fine.

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#64 Edited by war of light_2814 (2608 posts) - - Show Bio

OP Tier

-Slipknot

God Tier:

-Doomsday

Top Tier:

-Superman

-Zod

(gap)

-Aquaman (w/ full control over the ocean)

-Karathen

Upper High tier

-Nam-Ek

-Faora

Lower high tier

-Ares

-Steppenwolf

-Aquaman (under water)

-Ocean Master (under water)

-Mera (under water)

-Wonder Woman

Upper mid tier

-The Flash

-Aquaman

-Ocean Master

Lower mid tier:

-Cyborg

-Murk

-Aquaman (w/o gears)

- Black Manta

- Atlanteans

Bottomtier/ streetlevel

-Amazons

-Batman

-Killercroc

-Harley Quinn

-Joker

-Deadshot

-Katana

Useless

-Rick Flag

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#65 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:
@rem said:

@jedixman: IIRC OM is far above AM underwater. I don’t think Karathen has enough quantifiable feats to put her on the same level of DD.

Arthur got a few decent hits in. It was a gap is skill, not power. Power-wise, I'm not sure Ocean Master did anything Arthur couldn't do. He was just better trained than Arthur under water.

That’s a good point but skill is included in this list. If it wasn’t, characters like Batman and Rick Flag would be in the same tier.

She probably doesn't. But it's still a good feat. She was taking volleys of hits from a significant Atlantian armada and she was just fine.

Fine. I’ll bite.

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#66 Posted by KanyeCosby (6636 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman even in God Mode is not on the same tier as Superman. She’s massively inferior in every way, except skill. Also, Superman probably belongs in God tier with Doomsday after Justice League.

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#67 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_of_light_2814: honestly disagree with a lot of your list. I do not think Faora and nam ek are anywhere close to anyone on your LH tier list. Zod and Superman weren’t on the same tier in mos and BvS, let alone JL. and orm was straight up confirmed to be above aquaman underwater even when he can control of the sea cretures and I think that Wonder Woman is in the same tier as superman.

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#68 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman even in God Mode is not on the same tier as Superman. She’s massively inferior in every way, except skill. Also, Superman probably belongs in God tier with Doomsday after Justice League.

No she is not and I honestly think that regular WW is in Superman’s tier but a lot seem to disagree with me. WW amd Clark are equals. she was massively holding back in JL

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#69 Edited by war of light_2814 (2608 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem: Regarding Orm and Aquaman, I agree. Characters in the same tier are sometimes swappable.

Edit: Orm is definitely not above Arthur with telepathic controlled sea creatures unless you believe he can solos Karathen+ the Trench + god know how many sea creatures

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#70 Posted by KanyeCosby (6636 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem: In terms of strength and durability, it’s not debatable. Superman was massively superior to her in those areas, even in MOS. In his fight against her and the rest of the Justice League, he literally incapacitated her with just two headbutts.

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Before Justice League, they could be argued to be in the same tier due to Wonder Woman’s speed advantage and sword. This is no longer the case.

Superman already made her and the rest of the Justice League statues while fighting Flash.

Even if you want to make the excuse that she was in midair at the time, (which doesn’t even make sense, because if she was capable of moving at the speed Superman and Flash were moving, she should have been able to change her momentum or even move her arms and legs) Flash while moving at a casual speed was able to to reduce her almost into a statue. Flash while scared for his life and moving at super speed, was barely able to avoid Superman’s attacks.

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In the same movie, Steppenwolf was able to easily keep up with her and even dodge some of her attacks. Meanwhile, Superman was able to easily blitz him and see his attacks in slow motion.

Even with all of this on screen evidence, if you still believe that Wonder Woman is somehow faster than Superman, he was able to clearly blitz her. Superman was able to move dozens of feet in the time it took Wonder Woman just to hit her hands together, and she was unable to react to him.

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This is not even taking into account that Superman has more versatility. Even if they were somehow equals in speed. Superman has freeze breath which he can use to shatter Wonder Woman’s sword, similar to what he did to Steppenwolf’s axe.

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#71 Edited by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh so we’re actually doing this. Just to let you know that if you can convince me that superman wins this, Ill absolutely move her down if you’d like. I’m also not hell bent on Diana being as powerful as superman.

@kanyecosby said:

@rem: In terms of strength and durability, it’s not debatable. Superman was massively superior to her in those areas, even in MOS. In his fight against her and the rest of the Justice League, he literally incapacitated her with just two headbutts.

I’d agree with this but she has many ways of countering both of these caragories. She’s shown that she can definently tank hits from DD and SM with her shield and her sword can undoubtedly pierce him.

Before Justice League, they could be argued to be in the same tier due to Wonder Woman’s speed advantage and sword. This is no longer the case.

Superman already made her and the rest of the Justice League statues while fighting Flash.

Falling speed =/ Combat speed. Not too often to you see someone actually moving with being thrown to the side.

Even if you want to make the excuse that she was in midair at the time, (which doesn’t even make sense, because if she was capable of moving at the speed Superman and Flash were moving, she should have been able to change her momentum or even move her arms and legs) Flash while moving at a casual speed was able to to reduce her almost into a statue. Flash while scared for his life and moving at super speed, was barely able to avoid Superman’s attacks.

It definitely does make sense. if you see a person in slo- motion flying, there is almost no movement. She she did move her legs. She wasn’t comepletly frozen to either. Superman is definently a couple of Mach’s faster superman. We know because superman was in slo motion compared to him (you need to be at least Mach 2 to see someone in slow motion) and he was easily able to avoid his attacks. He was just surprised because he’s probably never faced anyone close to him speed wise.

In the same movie, Steppenwolf was able to easily keep up with her and even dodge some of her attacks. Meanwhile, Superman was able to easily blitz him and see his attacks in slow motion.

Diana has shown far better combat speed than stepphenwold has. I find stepphenwolf highly inconsistent which is why I rarely mention her fights against diana.

Even with all of this on screen evidence, if you still believe that Wonder Woman is somehow faster than Superman, he was able to clearly blitz her. Superman was able to move dozens of feet in the time it took Wonder Woman just to hit her hands together, and she was unable to react to him.

This is the only instance that superman has shown suppieror speed than her. And it’s not enough to put her solidly above her speed wise.

This is not even taking into account that Superman has more versatility. Even if they were somehow equals in speed. Superman has freeze breath which he can use to shatter Wonder Woman’s sword, similar to what he did to Steppenwolf’s axe.

What is he going to do? Stop fighting and freeze her sword? Wither way Diana’s sword has blocked DDs heat vision and Superman’s freeze breath does not have enough feats to say it can shatter his sword.

It was onvi that Diana was holding back and even stated it a few times. There is a reason why she did not attempt to use her sword once in that fight. She didn’t want to kill him and superman did.

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#72 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (14395 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Kryptonians in general are supposed to be high tier in this universe.

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#73 Posted by JediXMan (42088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem said:
@jedixman said:
@rem said:

@jedixman: IIRC OM is far above AM underwater. I don’t think Karathen has enough quantifiable feats to put her on the same level of DD.

Arthur got a few decent hits in. It was a gap is skill, not power. Power-wise, I'm not sure Ocean Master did anything Arthur couldn't do. He was just better trained than Arthur under water.

That’s a good point but skill is included in this list. If it wasn’t, characters like Batman and Rick Flag would be in the same tier.

True, though this is a bad example. Batman actually has some strength, speed, durability, and agility feats - not to mention his gear - which put him in another tier.

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#74 Posted by APEX_pretador (18944 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Doomsday

2. Superman

3. Everyone else

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#75 Posted by Supermanthor (10714 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#76 Posted by KanyeCosby (6636 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem: She can only tank hits from them with her shield. Superman has already shown he can two shot her if he wanted to.

If we were to use the falling speed argument , besides the fact that Wonder Woman had already shown in the movie that she was almost a statue to Flash’s speed, then wouldn’t Superman have been frozen in mid air when he jumped towards Flash?

Wonder Woman was a complete statue to both Superman and Flash. She was unable to change her momentum or even move any part of her body, while Flash and Superman were fighting. Her legs only moved when Superman threw her. Afterward, she was completely frozen.

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Flash was faster than Superman, but not by a large margin. Flash was barely able to dodge his attacks, and even then, he still managed to get tagged by the end of the fight.

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(Btw, you can see that Wonder Woman is still completely frozen in this. She is still unable to move any part of her body while they are having an entire fight.)

Steppenwolf was pretty consistent in both of his fights with Wonder Woman at the beginning and end of the movie. Wonder Woman was unable to overwhelm him with her speed and he was even able to dodge some of her attacks. Even at the end, Wonder Woman still couldn‘t overwhelm him with her speed even with the help of Aquaman.

This is how the fight between Wonder Woman and Steppenwolf went.

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Here Steppenwolf not only keeps pace with Wonder Woman, but also dodges three of her attacks.

This is how Steppenwolf and Superman’s fight went.

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Superman saw Steppenwolf‘s attack in slow motion, and was able to effortlessly dodge his attack.

Think about it this way, if the makers of the film at all intended for Superman and Wonder Woman to be the same level of speed, do you really think they would have shown her being a statue to him in the movie, had him blitz and two shot her, then have him casually blitz the main villain who was already shown to easily be able to keep pace with her? These aren’t the things shown in a movie when they’re trying to portray two characters as equals.

The scene of him blitzing her is perfectly consistent with how he was portrayed throughout the film. It’s similar to him seeing Steppenwolf in slow motion, despite the fact that he was able to keep up with Wonder Woman in both of their fights. It’s similar to him making a statue out of her just previously.

If Wonder Woman tries charging at him with her sword, which he can easily dodge, he can just freeze her weapon and shatter it or just take it from her. His freeze breath was already shown to be able to freeze Steppenwolf’s superheated axe in seconds, which was already shown throughout the movie to be durable enough not to be damaged by Wonder Woman‘s sword and keep pace with it. Wonder Woman‘s sword lacks the feats to show it could resist being frozen at that level.

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#77 Posted by APEX_pretador (18944 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor: He's stronger than superman, who's stronger than everyone else so yes.

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#78 Posted by buildhare (8521 posts) - - Show Bio

There's nothing to warrant Karatheen or WW being near Superman let alone above him.

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#79 Posted by Supermanthor (10714 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#80 Posted by vinomonster (5564 posts) - - Show Bio

God Tier

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#81 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

There's nothing to warrant Karatheen or WW being near Superman let alone above him.

There is plenty to put WW on the same level as superman.

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#82 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem: She can only tank hits from them with her shield. Superman has already shown he can two shot her if he wanted to.

You act as if he shield is irrelevant. Diana gas assumingly been yielding that shield for years and properly knows how to use it.

If we were to use the falling speed argument , besides the fact that Wonder Woman had already shown in the movie that she was almost a statue to Flash’s speed, then wouldn’t Superman have been frozen in mid air when he jumped towards Flash?

Considering the fact that superman was intentionally doing that, and the fact That he was using his superstrebth.

Wonder Woman was a complete statue to both Superman and Flash. She was unable to change her momentum or even move any part of her body, while Flash and Superman were fighting. Her legs only moved when Superman threw her. Afterward, she was completely frozen.

Once again Falling speed=/ combat speed. No need to restate things you’ve already said.

Flash was faster than Superman, but not by a large margin. Flash was barely able to dodge his attacks, and even then, he still managed to get tagged by the end of the fight.

This simply isn’t true. The flash has undoubtedly seen superman in slow motion and like I’ve said, you’ve got to be several Mach speeds faster than a person to see them in slo motion. Are you kidding me? If got tagged literally due to his inexperience.

(Btw, you can see that Wonder Woman is still completely frozen in this. She is still unable to move any part of her body while they are having an entire fight.)

Steppenwolf was pretty consistent in both of his fights with Wonder Woman at the beginning and end of the movie. Wonder Woman was unable to overwhelm him with her speed and he was even able to dodge some of her attacks. Even at the end, Wonder Woman still couldn‘t overwhelm him with her speed even with the help of Aquaman.

This is how the fight between Wonder Woman and Steppenwolf went.

Here Steppenwolf not only keeps pace with Wonder Woman, but also dodges three of her attacks.

And she didn’t use her superspeed once.

This is how Steppenwolf and Superman’s fight went.

stwpphenwolf has yet to use his speed against WW. She’s actually faster than him in combat speed and I don’t see how it’s debateable

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Superman saw Steppenwolf‘s attack in slow motion, and was able to effortlessly dodge his attack.

Think about it this way, if the makers of the film at all intended for Superman and Wonder Woman to be the same level of speed, do you really think they would have shown her being a statue to him in the movie, had him blitz and two shot her, then have him casually blitz the main villain who was already shown to easily be able to keep pace with her? These aren’t the things shown in a movie when they’re trying to portray two characters as equals.

She was never portrayed as a “statue” and I’m not sure why you keep saying that. Diana has yet to fly in the movie so there’s nothing she could have done. and once again, stepphenwolf has never actually used his speed against her. And she hasn’t besides one scene and we cannot just ignore BvS. She was explicitly portrayed as either Clark’s equal, or superior to him considering the fact that he couldn’t land a single blow without her distracting him or him not paying attention.

The scene of him blitzing her is perfectly consistent with how he was portrayed throughout the film. It’s similar to him seeing Steppenwolf in slow motion, despite the fact that he was able to keep up with Wonder Woman in both of their fights. It’s similar to him making a statue out of her just previously.

If Wonder Woman tries charging at him with her sword, which he can easily dodge, he can just freeze her weapon and shatter it or just take it from her. His freeze breath was already shown to be able to freeze Steppenwolf’s superheated axe in seconds, which was already shown throughout the movie to be durable enough not to be damaged by Wonder Woman‘s sword and keep pace with it. Wonder Woman‘s sword lacks the feats to show it could resist being frozen at that level.

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In this scene she could’ve easily used her Sword instead of her shield and superman would’ve been dead. She was definently holding back in this scene considering the fact that she didn’t even use her most dangerous weapon in her arsenal. She’s stated that she did not want to kill him in the film .

Doomsday, is more powerful that JL superman and she clearly could contend with him. He was throwing superman around like a ragdoll. She could literally replicate everything she did with DD to superman.DD reacted to most of SMS attacks.

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#83 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (8936 posts) - - Show Bio

Where is Slipknot?

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#84 Posted by Aka_aka_aka_ak (2784 posts) - - Show Bio

As of JL, Superman is in a tier of his own (possibly with Zeus), above even Doomsday.

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#85 Posted by DarkPsychicLord_Prime (3801 posts) - - Show Bio

Nam Ek and Faora could beat the shit out of SW in my opinion, other than that, good list.

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#86 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

Nam Ek and Faora could beat the shit out of SW in my opinion, other than that, good list.

Stepphenwolf is so inconsistent that its hard to properly place him. Due to scaling he should be in Zods tier but by actual feats he should be below Diana And Faora.

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#87 Posted by Richard96 (5420 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman:

Can I ask why Ares is the GOAT according to you? I agree he is above WW, but he should be vastly weaker than Supes or DD.

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#88 Posted by KanyeCosby (6636 posts) - - Show Bio

@remI: The shield isn’t irrelevant, but it doesn’t change the fact that Superman only has to punch her twice to defeat her.

It shouldn’t really matter if he was intentionally doing it. Superman should have been frozen in mid air in comparison to Flash, if Wonder Woman was perfectly capable of moving at the speeds they were, but wasn’t because she was in the air. I don’t really see how super strength would factor into this.

Wonder Woman literally showed no signs of movement whatsoever. She was unable to move her arms, legs, or head. If she was at all capable of moving at the same speeds as Superman and Flash, she should have done so in the movie. The reason I keep saying it is, because it’s a fact you can’t get around. Also, I don’t really see how you can believe that they were portrayed as equals in BvS but believe in Justice League that Superman wasn’t portrayed to be superior to her. Superman casually fodderizes the main villain. Wonder Woman wasn’t even able to beat him a single time, even with the help of Aquaman.

You make it seem like Flash was many times faster than him when this clearly isn’t true.

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This is not several Mach speeds faster. Flash looks to be around twice as fast as Superman. So, he was faster yes, but he was still struggling not to get tagged by Superman. There’s no statement in the movie that says Barry got tagged due to inexperience. That’s just your assumption. All we see in the movie is Superman tagging Flash. It doesn’t even matter anyway, because this is how Barry saw Wonder Woman while moving at a casual speed.

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Superman objectively speaking is clearly much closer to Flash in speed than Wonder Woman is. This scene proves it.

If the film makers intended Flash to be much faster than Superman, then they wouldn’t have had him casually catch up to Flash and call him slowpoke.

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So one scene of her bullrushing Steppenwolf proves she’s faster? What about the multiple times he dodged her attacks and kept up with her even with Aquaman‘s help? If she was much faster than Steppenwolf, then she should have been blitzing him throughout the movie . The fate of the entire world was at stake so there was no reason for her to hold back.

The only reason she was even able to hit him with her shield in that gif was because he was distracted from punching Aquaman away. This is how Superman dealt with Wonder Woman when he wasn’t distracted.

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Superman wasn’t even really trying to kill her in this fight. There were multiple times he could have done so. Like when he grabbed a hold of her after pulling her lasso, or when she was in mid air, or after he head butted her into submission. The most Superman tried to do to her was knock her out.

JL Superman >>>> BvS Superman. If we were only talking about BvS, then I would agree that Wonder Woman is in the same tier. However, Doomsday really isn’t that much better than JL Superman. JL Superman has better strength feats than Doomsday and he is massively faster. The only reason Superman would still struggle to defeat Doomsday, is because he would have no way to permanently put him down.

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#89 Edited by RukelnikovFTW (6105 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know how anyone can argue Diana being in the same tier as Supes after JL vs Supes scene.

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#90 Posted by MetalJimmor (5957 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem said:

IIRC OM is far above AM underwater. I don’t think Karathen has enough quantifiable feats to put her on the same level of DD.

I'd say the Karathen has enough feats that can be loosely quantified. Not calculated, but we can get a good ballpark figure.

She can obviously endure the temperatures of lava without issue. She's also strong enough to rip through the Earth's crust and burrow through miles of earth to get from the planet's center to the surface. This also necessitates her passing through the Mantle which can be as hot as 7,230F in places.

I was more impressed with how easily she tanked the full concentrated fire of the Atlantean military. We know they use plasma based weapons from earlier in the movie and we know that a simple rifle-equivalent can bust a small hill-sized rock formation. We can reasonably assume the artillery plasma weapons on their warships is of a higher grade, and she was taking shots from hundreds, if not thousands of sources without being troubled.

It would be neat if we got a little guidebook to Atlantis that gave numbers to some of their weapons and ships. We probably won't sadly.

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#91 Posted by rem (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know how anyone can argue Diana being in the same tier as Supes after JL vs Supes scene.

yes, because superman was far superior to Diana in BvS. Bullshit.

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#92 Posted by Wrathofthebrad (816 posts) - - Show Bio

OP Tier

-Slipknot

God Tier:

-Doomsday

Top Tier:

-Superman

-Zod

(gap)

-Aquaman (w/ full control over the ocean)

-Karathen

Upper High tier

-Nam-Ek

-Faora

Lower high tier

-Ares

-Steppenwolf

-Aquaman (under water)

-Ocean Master (under water)

-Mera (under water)

-Wonder Woman

Upper mid tier

-The Flash

-Aquaman

-Ocean Master

Lower mid tier:

-Cyborg

-Murk

-Aquaman (w/o gears)

- Black Manta

- Atlanteans

Bottomtier/ streetlevel

-Amazons

-Batman

-Killercroc

-Harley Quinn

-Joker

-Deadshot

-Katana

Useless

-Rick Flag

Is that list serious?

It's terrible and wrong beyond fixing.

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#93 Posted by RukelnikovFTW (6105 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem said:
@rukelnikovftw said:

I don't know how anyone can argue Diana being in the same tier as Supes after JL vs Supes scene.

yes, because superman was far superior to Diana in BvS. Bullshit.

Previous movie, verse moved on

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#94 Posted by Alsimmons77 (1527 posts) - - Show Bio

@rem said:
@rukelnikovftw said:

I don't know how anyone can argue Diana being in the same tier as Supes after JL vs Supes scene.

yes, because superman was far superior to Diana in BvS. Bullshit.

Previous movie, verse moved on

To be fair, Clarks ridiculous JL upgrade and Diana's terrible JL performance after the start make not even the slightest bit of sense. Then again the whole movie was a mess.

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#95 Posted by JediXMan (42088 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman:

Can I ask why Ares is the GOAT according to you? I agree he is above WW, but he should be vastly weaker than Supes or DD.

Because he was shown to be far above Diana to the point where there was nothing that she could really do against him. She only beat him because she was the "Godkiller." We saw him melt her sword casually. While I am not one for NLF, Diana was simply helpless against him.

Granted, it was certainly a less experienced Diana than we would see in the future.

Moderator
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#96 Posted by war of light_2814 (2608 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad: Who the hell are you to have the authority to tell what's right and wrong on the subject matter?

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#97 Posted by The_Kidd (11420 posts) - - Show Bio

Tier 0:

  1. Doomsday
  2. Superman
  3. Zeus

Tier 1:

  1. Zod
  2. Steppenwolf
  3. Ares
  4. Enchantress

Tier 2:

  1. Wonder Woman
  2. Faora
  3. Nam-Ek
  4. Aquaman
  5. Mera

Tier 3:

  1. Cyborg
  2. El Diablo
  3. Incubus
  4. Flash
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#98 Posted by buildhare (8521 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

Aquaman should be considered low-high tier. Ocean Master is more skilled than he is, but I don't think the gap is that wide.

The argument can be made that Karathen is a similar level to Doomsday. She was fighting off several Atlantian armies casually.

Curious as to why you think that as I've seen people stating similar. I don't really think it'd be an issue for someone like Superman or even Zod, let alone Doomsday.

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#99 Posted by MorbusGrav (1096 posts) - - Show Bio

I think God mode Wonder Woman and Karathen are too high, but the rest looks about right.

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#100 Posted by Richard96 (5420 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman:

“Because he was shown to be far above Diana to the point where there was nothing that she could really do against him. She only beat him because she was the "Godkiller." We saw him melt her sword casually. While I am not one for NLF, Diana was simply helpless against him. Granted, it was certainly a less experienced Diana than we would see in the future.”

And here I agree. But why above Superman or DD? Ares was roughly as fast as Diana, who was in Post JL supes blitzing range.