Will Joker win more Oscars than Black Panther?

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TonyMartial

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Poll: Will Joker win more Oscars than Black Panther? (84 votes)

Yes 63%
No 30%
It wont get any 7%

Black Panther won 3 Oscars, can Joker get more?

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KillBilly

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#51  Edited By KillBilly

@gracetrack said:

@killbilly: The specific movies you cited released in a much different time period and cultural climate, my man.

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Equally as important, none of those films highlight the journey of a socially awkward, mentally unstable person as he is being shunned, ridiculed, and/or tormented by his peers until finally he is so twisted up inside that he "snaps" and becomes a killer. Does any of that sound familiar? It should. It's the impetus for pretty much every mass shooting in the last decade.

If you're referring the current political divisiveness in our society then, I hate to break it to you but that's how its been for about the last 12,000 years.

In the 50's, people feared to speak out against the government or say or do anything that wasn't seen as the norm for fear of being labelled a communist or being ostracized by society ( this is partly why the children that grew up in this era were known as "the silent generation" ). And when I say doing things that went against the norm I mean things like participating in a non-Christian religion or interacting with other races. As a result of this suppression there was a counterculture movement in the 60's against what was perceived to be a corrupt and stagnant system that allowed if not outright encouraged injustices and inequality. The Vietnam war only fueled this dissatisfaction with authority as people believed those in power were willingly sacrificing people's lives for political and monetary gain. This continued well into the 70's with the Kent State shootings and was only fueled by the Watergate scandal. We don't live in some special time of turmoil and political unrest. People have always been discontent with things and justifiably so. Even if there was nothing to be discontent about, we would still feel that way because it's in our nature as human beings to be discontent with the status quo.

Billy Joel wrote a song about this actually...

Loading Video...

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American Pyshco is about the desperate need to stand out in a society that views you as a faceless unimportant cog in a vast uncaring machine. This is something people have struggled with since shortly after the agricultural revolution. I.E. right about the time when individuals did not need to focus solely on ensuring their own survival. This feeling has become particularly widespread in our society from the 80's onwards due to a variety of factors, some of main ones being; the expansion of consumerism, the fading ideal of American exceptionalism and the homogenization of our society.

I would actually argue that this universal desire to stand out is the main drive for most people who carry out mass shootings. Going by your logic, that would make American Psycho a more dangerous movie than the Joker due to suggesting that one can gain the notoriety they desire by gaining public recognition such actions since Bateman's dissatisfaction in the movie seemingly stems from the fact that no one believes he's actually carried out the murders that he thinks he has.

The reason I DON'T believe either American Psycho or Joker are actually dangerous is because neither of these movie glorifies the killers. They show them to be mentally unstable and pitiable people who you sympathize with only insofar as understanding how they could have gotten to that point as a result of their circumstances. That's the point of these movies imo. They want you to think about how specific circumstances can affect people and encourage you to do what you can to prevent them, both on an individual level and a broader scale as well.

@killbilly: You ask if all such movies and media should be banned? That's a seriously loaded question.

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In general, I don't believe censoring or banning things from the general public is a good idea, no. Freedom of speech is a U.S. Constitutional right, and it's a good one. Bad ideas are defeated by presenting BETTER ideas, not by shutting down freedom of thought, speech, or expression (that would be the Fascist approach to things), and I never suggested imposing a ban was a good course of action.

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However, censoring something bad versus not showering it with awards are two separate issues. I was speaking to the latter, not the former. And no, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to award it if that's what they want to do. Again, 1st Amendment. What I am saying is that I think showering it with praise at the most watched film award ceremony in our nation is incredibly stupid, completely disregards the current cultural climate, and will ultimately be counter-productive to our health as a nation. That is all.

It was an honest question. I was genuinely curious what you thought we should do about media you view as potentially dangerous.

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We agree on this at least.

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Let me ask you this then:

There are those that argue that the beliefs and actions of Killmonger in Black Panther are justified and even those that don't generally agree that Killmonger's background can be seen as representative of the experiences of many African Americans in the United States. Going by your logic, wasn't it unwise to award Black Panthers the Oscars it received as that may have helped to spread a potentially harmful message to potentially susceptible individuals in a similar manner to what your suggesting could happen with the Joker?

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GetsugatenshoHA

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@aka_aka_aka_ak: because hating on Black Panther and downplaying it’s achievements by saying it only one because of race

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buttersdaman000

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Eh, no, but only because it won't be nominated in 5 different categories. At most, it'll get Best Actor, and Best Picture, maybe one more but I don't know which.

I think Phoenix should be thought of as a strong contender for best actor though. And Joker is a fringe best picture nominee.

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primebonnick

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Honest best actor should be his but one never knows

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OnlyOneEmpereor

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#55  Edited By OnlyOneEmpereor

I could see it getting nominated for Best actor definitely, everything else is up in the air. I think we all need to address the elephant in the room and admit that the people who head the Academy still think comic book movies are jokes, whether they be marvel or DC. Let's not forget that The Dark Knight was snubbed along with Logan for Best Picture.

The elite Hollywood filmmakers and their peers do not think Comic Book movies deserve a place at their table. Recent comments from Martin Scorsese highlights how the old gatekeepers of Hollywood feel about these films. They think they are mindless entertainment and that's it.

Whether you like or hate Black Panther, you have to acknowledge that it opened the door for the comic book movies that will come after. And keep in mind that the Academy didn't even want to nominate Black Panther for Best Picture. They damn near created a whole separate category to try and place them in. But the reason we are even having this discussion about Joker and potentially Endgame getting nominations is because a previous CBM paved the way to do so.

That should be the biggest takeaway from Black Panther getting nominated; that it created opportunities for other films in the genre that will come after, not being salty that it got nominated and you don't believe it should have. Because lets keep it honest, there has been past films that were nominated and even won that were way worse. I'm looking at you Crash.

Great breakdown. I Think Phoenix will get the nomination but i don't see anything else to nom except Soundtrack? IF It's nominated great but i doubt since it holds a 59/100 Metacritic (2 points to being green/positive reviews) and those two points hurts, Bohemian Rapsody winning 4 oscars with a 48/100 proves joker could get oscars if they think its good.

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Gracetrack

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Combo-Man

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I can't believe Black Panther won 3 oscars, wasn't aware of that. lol, if you ever needed evidence that the oscars mean nothing these days there it is.

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Aka_aka_aka_ak

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@aka_aka_aka_ak: because hating on Black Panther and downplaying it’s achievements by saying it only one because of race

what? Who said anything like that?

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Richard96

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It would be fair.

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OswaldCobblepot

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I'll just say it. BP only won because of race and was an affirmative action winner. it was trash. the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers movie from 1995 had more artistic credibility.

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Gracetrack

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#61  Edited By Gracetrack

@oswaldcobblepot: I liked Black Panther and thought it was a pretty good movie overall. But yes, I do agree with you about the reasons it most likely was nominated and won.

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RandyButterNubs

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There's nothing Oscar worthy in Black Panther.

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TonyMartial

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Eh, no, but only because it won't be nominated in 5 different categories. At most, it'll get Best Actor, and Best Picture, maybe one more but I don't know which.

I think Phoenix should be thought of as a strong contender for best actor though. And Joker is a fringe best picture nominee.

Best picture, best actor, score and director is likely. The competition isnt too strong this year.

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TheSpartanB345T

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Yeah, Black Panther deserved its Oscars. A lot of people forget to mention that

  1. The Oscars only depict one year of film
  2. Categories exist

BP had an excellent score (top 5 in all CBMs imo) and great production+costumes. I can see arguments being made for both sides for each category, but the point is that the stylistic choices were praised, not the actual plot or acting. Compared to the other 2018 films, who had better music, costuming, and production?

Joker, on the other hand, probably won't get any. It's a massively superior film (BP is pretty mediocre) but it doesn't excel in minor categories, and I doubt Best Picture, Actor, and Screenplay will be favorable towards that movie.

Obviously Black Panther got nominated because of political reasons (it brought attention to the movie) but actually winning the Oscars was pretty legitimate if you ask me.

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ANTHP2000

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#65  Edited By ANTHP2000

@thespartanb345t:

Joker, on the other hand, probably won't get any. It's a massively superior film (BP is pretty mediocre) but it doesn't excel in minor categories, and I doubt Best Picture, Actor, and Screenplay will be favorable towards that movie.

Honestly, I could only take a win for Best Actor seriously with the films this year, and even then Phoenix's wouldn't be the first performance I'm rooting for. However, award season's already been highily favorable towards Joker.

I agree with your main point though, Joker is better than Black Panther, but the buzz it's getting is in the major, technical categories so it's tough to say it'll have more wins - better nominations maybe.

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CocaColaMan

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It better.

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Vishop_

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#67 Vishop_  Online
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WolverineBatmanFTW

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I don't hate BP and I can't stand those people that rail on it saying it's leftist trash or whatever, but that movie is by no means Oscar worthy. It was fine, nothing special. 3 wins and a Best Picture nomination was clear virtue signaling by the Academy.

Joker is a far, far better film, but due to the surrounding controversy, I don't see it getting anything other than a Best Actor nomination/win. Kinda sad tbh.

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Juicers

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should be at least double

I don't even get how BP get a single award on anything

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WolverineBatmanFTW

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@tonymartial:

"The competition isnt too strong this year"

Um, yeah it is. The Irishman, Marriage Story, 1917, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Parasite, Knives Out, Ad Astra, Hustlers, Uncut Gems, Ford V Ferrari, Midsommar, Portrait of a Lady on Fire and Jojo Rabbit are all decent contenders.

Whilst I do hope in wins mlre than just Best Actor, I don't think it will.

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PayneInTheAss

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@tonymartial:

"The competition isnt too strong this year"

Um, yeah it is. The Irishman, Marriage Story, 1917, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Parasite, Knives Out, Ad Astra, Hustlers, Uncut Gems, Ford V Ferrari, Midsommar, Portrait of a Lady on Fire and Jojo Rabbit are all decent contenders.

Whilst I do hope in wins mlre than just Best Actor, I don't think it will.

Yeah this year is way stronger than last Oscars.

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KingOfWakanda

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#72 KingOfWakanda  Online

Bumping now that nominations are out. These are my best guesses

  • Best Picture - 1917 or Irishman (Parasite - dark horse candidate)
  • Best Director - Sam Mendes - 1917
  • Best Actor - Joaquin Phoenix (I like Driver too but everything points to Phoenix)
  • Best Adapted Screenplay - Little Women (consolation prize for Greta Gerwig not being nominated for director)
  • Best Cinematography - Joker or 1917
  • Best Original Score - Joker, 1917 or TROS (John Williams is retiring from SW so this might be a sentimental pick)
  • Best Film Editing - ???
  • Best Costume Design - ???
  • Best Makeup - Bombshell based on Charlize Theron and John Lithgow's transformations.
  • Best Sound Editing - ???
  • Best Sound Mixing - ???

I'd say it's in the lead for Best Actor, in the mix for Cinematography and Score. So I'd say at least one or two wins with an outside shot at more. I have no feel for the ???

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Richard96

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#73  Edited By Richard96

I hope so.

Black Panther is just an average MCU movie and the fact it was nominated for the best movie and won 3 Oscar was just bias.

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Penguin-Dust

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As I said in another thread, on average movies that get a high number of nominations usually win half give or take one, so given Joker’s 11 nominations it should take home between 5 and 7. That would be more than Black Panther, obviously.

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StormShadow_X

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Yed

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the_wspanialy

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#76 the_wspanialy  Online

Doubt it. It wasn't diverse enough.

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Crater_Maker

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#77  Edited By Crater_Maker

I wonder if everyone bashing Black Panther realizes there are multiple categories in the oscars rather than “which film is better”.

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CocaColaMan

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I wonder if everyone bashing Black Panther realizes there are multiple categories in the oscars rather than “which film is better”.

Regardless, Infinity War surpassed Black Panther in just about every conceivable way, but Infinity War got 0 Oscars.

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Subline

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For sure.

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CosmicMuffin

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Black Panther winning oscars was just bias. It's an incredibly mediocre film, the only reason it got so successful was because of it being the first african superhero film.

Joker is objectively a much better movie.

Black Panther winning costume design, set design and score was not bias. It 100% deserved those categories. Hate the film all you want, but the design in that film was some of the best ever

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CosmicMuffin

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Joker basically has Best Actor and Score locked. So its going to win 2 for sure. Don't know if it can pull anything else

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DannyPhantom

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Maybe the same

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#83  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

It will get at least 3

Black Panther did not deserve an Oscar ever, it’s hilariously mediocre

The difference is that Joker can win big categories at the oscars while Panther just won small ones typically out of pity

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Essem

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Nobody gives a shit about small categories. I mean Suicide Squad won an oscar... The big categories are the only ones that count