Why the endless beat Luicfer and Micheal?

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thekingslayer66

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I have heard people say that the endless cant affect lucifer and Micheal but I disagree and I wanted to find out other people opinion of this battle and I dont want to hear about lucifer being the second moat powerful being bc there are a lot of charcaters above him

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deactivated-602fa42cce34f

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Well in an Issue where Lucifer met Death he told her she has no claim on him and she agreed.

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jamespacker

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A lot of characters?? Who

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deactivated-60f4d10418f1d

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The Endless can affect Lucifer. And they can affect him only under certain circumstances like for example, destiny can affect him only in the main creation but not in the void, that doesn't mean they can defeat him in an actual battle.

Like Desire did affect dream making him fall in love, but he cannot beat him in a direct battle

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Deathknight203

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@happylife1996: @aegonazami107: in the Morrison map he is in the top and can see very one in dc and dream created utu and enlil and they created the cosmic whale and they transcend all of dc.

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Deathknight203

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Y3kthunder

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@deathknight203: unwritten isn't apart of dc and even if you wanted to say it was lol ok dream already said lucifer is his superior and was terrified of him dream went to hell prepared to die

Also there is no tf lobo he doesn't transcend hell and by no means does lobo scale to lucifer

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Deathknight203

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#8  Edited By Deathknight203

@y3kthunder: wtf is wrong you it literally says in the first few pages that love transcends hell and luicfer did not want to mess with him and dream is > Lucifer since he has better feats by scaling and in the first encounter he f up Lucifer and he created utu(probably never heard of him) who transcends dc.

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Y3kthunder

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@deathknight203: I could literally ask you the same question and no it didn't stop lying. It said that his malice

"the intention or desire to do evil; ill will."

Cause you seem not to know the definition transcended hell which meant he was more evil lol alright that don't mean nothing then it said lucifer made a prison for those (so not specifically lobo) that he didn't want nothing to do with that doesn't translate to power and never will lol I want nothing to do with a 100lb person does that make them more powerful than me, I mean it could if they were some serious martial artist or whatever but typically the answer is no.

Also dream doesn't have better feats or scaling then lucifer lol what name some I know these characters quite a bit I love the sandman series. Also dream never fought lucifer did you even read the story his first encounter he played a game with a random demon to get his helm back and the demon lost. He embarrassed lucifer but didn't actually fight him what are you on about. So I guess we should take dreams own words of I'm scared of you lucifer, and of oh lucifer is by far more powerful than I, and oh I'm going to hell I might not come back and throw them out the window cause muh you say so ahahaha

Again unwritten is creator owned it doesn't scale to dc and if you wanted it to your only putting lucifer on a higher scale

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Deathknight203

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@y3kthunder: I got the wrong meaning for malice

Sorry about that

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Deathknight203

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Y3kthunder

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@deathknight203: yes but that doesn't mean it's apart of the dcu take seekers into mystery for example it's written under vertigo imprint but matteis explicitly said it's not apart of dc and as many authors have said that vertigo is mostly creator owned story's and are there own thing. Sandman is one of those rare exceptions and there plenty of evidence to support they're the same universe as dc there isn't however for unwritten like I said go ahead and consider it apart of dc if you like it only places Lucy that much higher

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Deathknight203

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#13  Edited By Deathknight203

@y3kthunder: I am sorry it said that Lucifer does not want go toe to toe with lobo so I don't care words from comic over yours and he is the battery for hell and how does it places Lucy higher

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Y3kthunder

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#14  Edited By Y3kthunder

@deathknight203: but the comic doesn't state that and you'd know if you read that zauriel tells shazam and the others that hell has a prison (not specifically for lobo and if they escape to the realm of the living zauriel an co would have to deal with those lucifer doesn't want). That by no means, means lobo is more powerful than lucifer or comes anyway near him lol his best feat was what wrestling with a sun? Cool lucifer grows so large he can literally crush stars with his hands. And now the leviathan is apart of dc and transcends it and he is weaker than dream who is weaker than lucifer and lobo is apparently stronger than that lol your gonna have a hella time convincing ppl that lobo flicks the multiverse and absolutely crushes the endless when he can't even touch destiny

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Deathknight203

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#15  Edited By Deathknight203

@y3kthunder: bro lobo will get f##ked by the endless and Lucifer(composite) .

All I'm saying is that tf lobo is really powerful and that he could something in the match up in my marvel vs dc thread but it's okay if you disagree

Neron who fought asmodel who whilest weakened bullied zauriel and beat him and micheal(which might be Lucifer brother but the character design and the personality

Is different) but still was impressive and that same asmodel was getting tossed around by neron who was not evening trying and was scared by tf lobo and tf lobo was the battery for hell and neron is a hell lord and was one of the fallen angel and a follower of Lucifer.

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Y3kthunder

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@deathknight203: there is literally only one version of lucifer lobo has a chance against and that's n52 Carey's/sandman lucifer is way to much for him and I'm trying to tell you true form lobo doesn't exist

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Deathknight203

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@y3kthunder: how does Tf lobo dont exist when it was stated in the comic and all the feats and stamates for lobo was a fake created by neron power

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Deathknight203

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@y3kthunder: again I did not say he defeats Lucifer I am just saying that he is a few levels below Lucifer.

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Y3kthunder

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@deathknight203: where's your scan dude neron himself suggests he has no idea who lobo is

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Y3kthunder

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@deathknight203: you said he scales to lucifer which means they're near in power which is definitely false

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Deathknight203

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#21  Edited By Deathknight203

@y3kthunder: I said he sacles to weak to mid tier Lucifer not the strongest Lucifer

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Deathknight203

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Deathknight203

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Y3kthunder

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@deathknight203: you said this

"true form lobo should scale to luicfer bc luicfer was scared of him" you never said a weakened lucifer

Also ok I found ur true form lobo scan it says it says the lobo who fought blue devil was a doppleganger constructed by neron while the real one was down in hell which doesn't mean lobo has a true form like darksied like, he is more than what he is. only that the one blue devil fought was a fake. Lobo is lobo he has no other form. Then you said lobo powered hell which is not right the scan says hell is powered by agony and the torture lobo suffered was great enough to power the prison he was in

And yes according to lady blaze neron feared lobo because he knows he betrayed him and that lobo would come looking for him. Also it's fine to be on mobile because I am to

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Deathknight203

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@y3kthunder: yeah I made a mistake lobo only to low to mid tier Lucifer but it's okay and tf lobo = the real lobo which was in the prison and I re reading the comic rn so I will come back later and I said I am on moblie so I cant post scans.

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Y3kthunder

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@deathknight203: that's still a huge problem the real lobo is only star level even extremely weakened lucifer can grow to planetary size and tank a supernova hell he is powerful enough to where he is about to take on odin's horsemen who had the lord's of order and chaos shaking in there boots and the entire dreaming and green feared him. And that's fine take ur time

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Deathknight203

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Deathknight203

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@y3kthunder: can you tell me the top 15 strongest dc characters in your op

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Y3kthunder

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@deathknight203: doesn't mean he was born there he is still regular lobo that supes has fought it was only confirmed that the one blue devil fought was a fake

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Y3kthunder

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Deathknight203

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@y3kthunder: never said he was born there and tf lobo was in hell for a long time and neron created the fake

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thekingslayer66

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@y3kthunder: The endless are above lucifer since even the creator of lucifer said they are unbeatable and in the sandman comic it was stated by destruction that the endless are above everything in creation which would include all of dc

Dream created utu and enlil who transcend of all dc comics and the levitation is above them and dream >the levitation since he created the gods tha created the whale and dream is more powerful than mxy and 10d monster which should be above lucifer since they are above him in cosmology and the dream stalement shouldnt be used since he has better feats than luicfer and I could use stalements took and imo the endless as a group are above dc itself

Now time to debunk the presence being the god of dc when he is clearly not so

First of all the presence was killed by his sons even though he planed it he is still bound by death

Secondly the presence was formed by another power which would prove he isnt omnipotent and he was made by the dreams of humans (dream of the endless) and hecate was stated by john con to be the most powerful god which would include the presence and there are many beings above the presence/lucifer/Micheal in power

And lucifer never escaped destiny of the endless because in themorrsion map destiny is above everyone even the monitors and the endless were not created by lucifer they were created by mother night and father time but some of the endless surpass both of them such as death ofmthe endless

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Deathknight203

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@thekingslayer66: bro witching hour wonder was stated to be the most powerful who walked the earth while in the same comic book the presence was walking the earth and whw only had a fraction of hecates power so yeah hecate>>>>>>■>>> the presence

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Y3kthunder

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#34  Edited By Y3kthunder

@deathknight203: it said he was there a few years. Again we only know the fake fought blue devil so there's nothing to say the lobo that fought supes. Wasn't lobo

As for the list

1.the source/the presence/overvoid or void whatever you wish to call it.

2 pralaya/ Geb / mother night they're representations of the void as well both pralaya and Geb are aspects of the presence mother night is the only one I'm unsure of right there

3. judges of the source

4. Uhhhh I'm extremely iffy about this one but for now I'll say chron the new character gets this. He is backed by the source (the source won't let him die) and is hinted that he will try and save the multiverse dunno if that means he will fight bwl or not also it's said he is several tiers higher than the new gods.

5.bwl spoiler alert he beats perpetua.

6.perpetua mother of the main multiverse she is apart of a race known as the super celestials tasked with creating multiverses to please the source then they die unlike her siblings she refused to die and was trapped inside the source wall.

7. The super celestials/ Synnar. The celestials were given the task to create multiverses for the source however when they do create a multiverse they die. Synnar basically had the same task as the celestials.

8. Lucifer morningstar/ Michael demiurgos now this is a toughy for me honestly and with current sandman and dc being different it's hard to see where these two stand nowadays. Often credited with the creation of the multiverse under there father's orders, I believe these two could be dcs original super celestials. I mean if you think about it they were tasked with bringing forth creation just like the super celestials and Michael spawns the foundation in a very similar fashion as the super celestials. And this blast doesn't affect lucifer at all and one the plus side Michael doesn't stay dead so for them I can easily see them being round the power of a super celestial. Now one could take this a bit further an point out they're said to have power as great as there father aka the presence, and they're his will and power which could certainly boost there status on this list. Now if one has an issue with that statement need I remind thee that they're said to be the presences favorites afterall he did want them to become the maker.

9. The monitor brothers/ doctor manhattan. While in the sixth dimension the monitor brothers are much stronger than in the multiverse mar was set over the positive universe while mobius was set over the antimatter universe and forget hammered out the universes in the orrey. As for doctor manhattan we know he wields the same energy as the super celestials however not as much as them cause bwl who took Manhattans body couldn't compete with perpetua with his power alone.

10. The endless the very aspects that make up existence itself each of these beings are incredibly powerful. And could possibly go higher on this list we know they can operate outside of the main multiverse and with there being an greater omniverse while not confirmed they may exist in those as well.

Well I think that's an alright list

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Y3kthunder

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@thekingslayer66: this is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny.

"The endless are above lucifer since even the creator of lucifer said they are unbeatable and in the sandman comic it was stated by destruction that the endless are above everything in creation which would include all of dc"

Where does the writer state this? Also destruction said he was practically more powerful than anything in creation. Hell his realm wouldn't even exist if not for lucifer bruh stars are his creation he tanked a blast that could wipe out creation multiple times nothing destruction throws at him is gonna beat him.

"Dream created utu and enlil who transcend of all dc comics and the levitation is above them and dream >the levitation since he created the gods tha created the whale and dream is more powerful than mxy and 10d monster which should be above lucifer since they are above him in cosmology and the dream stalement shouldnt be used since he has better feats than luicfer and I could use stalements took and imo the endless as a group are above dc itself"

Bruh unwritten is not apart of dc and never was dream literally admits multiple times lucifer is his superior and he is scared of him.

"First of all the presence was killed by his sons even though he planed it he is still bound by death"

First off gabriel was the one to deliver the stab, secondly if it's apart of his plan and he want to quote unquote die that doesn't disprove anything.

"Secondly the presence was formed by another power which would prove he isnt omnipotent and he was made by the dreams of humans (dream of the endless) and hecate was stated by john con to be the most powerful god which would include the presence and there are many beings above the presence/lucifer/Micheal in power"

Hey look another lie carey doesn't say humans created the presence what he said was collective views on god across the multiverse shape the way we see him. Also hecate uses the collective unconscious power born from the connective energy which is born from guess who? The presence he is multiple tiers higher than hecate sorry bud.

"And lucifer never escaped destiny of the endless because in themorrsion map destiny is above everyone even the monitors and the endless were not created by lucifer they were created by mother night and father time but some of the endless surpass both of them such as death ofmthe endless"

Hey look more misinformation destiny doesn't literally exist above the map when asked the author stated it was metaphorically speaking showing that his eyes saw all on the map it was his sphere of influence if you will. And incorrect lucifer did escape destiny the map or book is the plan the presence told lucifer welcome to outside the plan. He also told Lucy he escaped his function his role in the scheme of things. Also the presence gave the endless there powers which includes time and such so gg

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Deathknight203

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@y3kthunder: what is this list have you heard ahl and greg freely and cosmic whale and utu and rita fraa

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Deathknight203

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@y3kthunder: my list

1. Dream of the endless

2. Cosmic whale

3. Utu and enlil

4. Greg freely

5. Rita fraa

6. Television gods

7. Ahl

8. Haxxalone

9. Retcon corps

10. Milk man

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Y3kthunder

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#38  Edited By Y3kthunder

@deathknight203: ahl was created by retco beings who reside in the sphere of gods and he got taken out by a regular rock like legitimately killed. The leviathan and utu etc aren't apart of dc. And I'll admit I've not heard of Greg but I'm sure your gonna blab untrue crap about him to so...

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Y3kthunder

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#39  Edited By Y3kthunder

@deathknight203: Ah yes my apologies if I could change one thing on my list id change the enonomus or tv guys as you put them in my list according to the other they exist in a realm that see all of dc as fiction the void is literally a piece of paper to them

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deactivated-5ffd6af867550

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People from WCP server have finally descended. 😂. I mean Lucifer didn't allow Destiny to exist in his creation cause he found the concept offensive and Dream has already pronounced his inferiority to Lucifer. But well. The Endless can sure beat the brothers.

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Deathknight203

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#41  Edited By Deathknight203

@y3kthunder: ahl not able was created by retcon corps who live in final heaven which is way above sphere of gods and can control the Overvoid and ahl became their leader and ahl is the platonic concept of a superhero and created every superhero ever and the brick which you talked was called the brick that can think was it's only weaknesses and you can go and wank Lucifer and the presence. As I said before their dc vertigo which is part of dc and this is composite dc. Greg freely created the fuc##ng source while be drunk and bc he fell down with a penciled in his hand.

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thekingslayer66

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@y3kthunder: Lmao have you even read the sandman lol

He mentions all of the endless lol when I bet my computer back i will show you the scan

I told you the stalements were kinda outliers cause dream has better feats then luicfer

And unwritten is part of the dc lol

It show that he can die

Lol I said john con said it lol and blight a being born from the collective unconscious was too powerful for the presence to defeat lol

Lol presence never give the endless there power lol it was mother night ad father time and they created all of creation in sandman overture

Lucifer is still bound by the endless lol

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thekingslayer66

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@y3kthunder: lol they live in final heaven and they see overviod as fiction lol and ahl got killed by danny the brick

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Y3kthunder

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@deathknight203: I meant ahl you toad ever heard of auto correct I already told you I was using a phone atm or is your memory crap to. Ahl was made to be the god of superheroes that was it and he got killed by a regular rock.

Greg worked for the empty hand the god of another multiverse whoopy the source is legit currently responsible for the whole omniverse

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Deathknight203

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@y3kthunder: I am using moblie but i could spell correctly and as i said before he did not get killed by a normal brick and stop reading dc wiki and go read the comic.

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Deathknight203

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@y3kthunder: yeah my as# and tell me the comic book name

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Y3kthunder

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@thekingslayer66:

"He mentions all of the endless lol when I bet my computer back i will show you the scan"

Really no idea what ur talking about I doubt Niel ever said the endless as supreme he did through dream though say that the presence was supreme so I guess theres that.

"I told you the stalements were kinda outliers cause dream has better feats then luicfer"

Dream doesn't have better feats than lucifer lol which his best is reshaping the multiverse with the power of a thousand dreamers. Lucifer tanked multiple blasts that would wipe out all of creation and shaped two entire creations for crying out loud in 2018 a weakened lucifer made the whole dreaming have a heart attack just by being there.

"And unwritten is part of the dc lol"

No it isn't it's written under the vertigo imprint which was made for adult and creator owned story's and multiple authors have said books from vertigo are typically not canon to dc so unless you can provide any relation connecting the two they simply aren't saying it's under a dc imprint doesn't make it apart of the dcu.

"Lol I said john con said it lol and blight a being born from the collective unconscious was too powerful for the presence to defeat lol"

I have a scan that shows the presence beat eclipso, mr E, blight, neron, trigon and a few others nice try.

”It show that he can die" yea cause he wanted his quote unquote death.

"Lol presence never give the endless there power lol it was mother night ad father time and they created all of creation in sandman overture"

Yes mother night and father tine are the endless es parents however the council of um tbh I forget gives the roles etc to everything they're why the endless are what they're and one of them whose name starts with a s translates to the glory of god. Hinting that he is an aspect of the presence also in overture it was written that the void is gods mind and who is god to Niel well the presence so gg some more.

"Lucifer is still bound by the endless lol"

Being able to affect something doesn't make you more powerful than it. Delirium has sought lucifers help for things she couldn't do. Death admits she had no claim on him and that he could kill her. Dream stated he is inferior to lucifer multiple times and goes to hell prepared to die. Lucifer escaped the plan and his destiny and beat the basanos who are literally destiny in tarot deck form. I already explained destruction and don't feel the need for the others

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Y3kthunder

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#48  Edited By Y3kthunder

@deathknight203: comic book issue for what the source/the presence being in charge of the omniverse you ever read death metal?

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Y3kthunder

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@johnsmjs36: yes thank you that's the one these wcp fanboys really ought to go back to youtube