Why the DCEU is having a hard time getting firmly established

So the DCEU has had a decent start overall but it is nothing smooth or established.

People will say that the reason the DCEU is having a hard time establishing itself as a firm and stable cinematic universe is that their movies have not been recieved well.

False.

This is just a symptom of the real problem.

The real problem is that when creating the DCEU, WB did not have a set plan in mind. They do not have an idea of how they want this universe to go. They,as of now, have no end-game like MCU does Infinity War.

Without a plan, WB is just going with the wind. We already saw this with SS. People criticized the somber tones of the previous films and they reacted with a rushed movie trying to grab the success of Gotg.

Marvel has had his missteps but despite their problems, they have a plan they are sticking with and not straying away from. DCEU on the other hand has been more reactionary. They had somewhat of a plan with BvS, MOS, and JL, but beyond that, they are making things as they go.

They don't have an end-game or know what to do with films after JL. They don't have a plan to connect everything together (post JL) for another ensemble film nor do they have a plan for what they want to do with their characters, Their strategy right now is almost solely business based. They make films if they make bank, not to connect it to a larger universe and make some sacrifices along the way.

For ex., I am sure MCU knew Ant-Man wouldnt be a huge financial success but they went with it because they had larger plans with the universe and the film.

DCEU should be more concerned with establishing a firm plan, with a beggining, middle stage, and an end game like Infinity War.

Marvel didn't have a plan, either. The Iron Man post-credit scene was a last minute decision. Do not fool yourself into thinking that Marvel had a plan in 2008, either.

The problem is that WB set out, from the start, to make a universe, while Marvel allowed theirs to grow naturally. WB built the cart before the wheel, so to speak, while Marvel build a really nice wheel and waited to see what people thought of their wheel before making new wheels and then built a cart on a solid frame.

Darth Mickey is responsible.

DC more or less don't want to copy the way Marvel build their universe which was to introduce each hero and use after credit scenes to connect the movies.

I kind of respect that, however I think Marvel will face issues in phase 4. Infinity war is their climax to what they were building up to from the start of the first avengers. In phase 4 I am uncertain they could create another event everyone will be looking forward to.

They tried to be different and went too far with realism

I'm pretty sure Man of Steel was originally intended to be a solo trilogy for Superman.

@doom_phd: When MCU starts Phase 4, DCEU should really get into full gear. I have a feeling that if they deliver some quality movies after MCU phase 4, the dceu may overtake the mcu in popularity. A lot of the main guys that audiences love will likely die while the DCEU will still have their aces.

Man of Steel was the only film that felt organic. They should have followed it up with a MoS sequel before even attempting BvS.

EDIT: Wonder Woman felt organic, too. So hopefully WB learned.

Agreed, but it could've worked if a couple things were changed.

The DCEU is trying to play catch up, that's why it's having the issues it's having, as said above if they wouldn't took their time it would have been a different story

@jedixman: I hate the word organic.

Sure, but it relies entirely on the previous knowledge of fans. Would anybody care if it were "Superman vs. Random Guy?" No. Batman needed setup just like anybody else.

K.

@jedixman: Of course Marvel didn't have some overriding plan ready to go when Iron Man was released in 2008. At that point they had no idea if there would even be more than a few movies at most and whether they'd even be making much money on them. I think there was an overall plan put into motion shortly after that though. By 2010 they definitely had an idea to introduce most of the Avengers in their own solo movies followed by an Avengers movie. From there it has just grown naturally into expanding the universe and building up to Infinity War(and the one that comes after it I think which will prob end up being called something like Infinity Crusade).

The problem is they just didn't take their time. That's it.

They were so eager to get a super ensemble cast to catch up to the MCU that they forgot the MCU took alot of time and a lot of solo movies with good performances and solid stories. Attaching us to the characters and raising hype for team ups.

Plus Zack Snyder approves hastily written scripts to cram so much backstory and exposition no one asked for into the films that drag them down and make them long as hell and as a result not enjoyable.

there will be new favorites by the time all the favorites die. 1 or 2 Big avengers will die maybe but there is no Way they are killing all the big boys. Doctor strange will become a favorite the guardians are already becoming a favorire, Spider-Man Duh, black panther looks like he's going some one of the most loved parts of civil war, Ant man was well received and we have captain marvel on the way yeah the mcu is and might even outlive the DCEU if done Correctly. Especially considering WB is already considering a reboot and Kicking batman

What's helped the MCU tremendously is Kevin Feige. He took control and basically quarterbacked the MCU and where it was going. WB/DC doesn't really have anyone with like Feige that has knowledge of movie making and the source materials universe to QB the DCEU. So what you got with WB/DC with the DCEU is too many cooks in the kitchen. Which can be both a good thing and a bad thing at the same time imo

I don't think it's that they don't have a plan, I think it's more of, "How can we change things up, to make it more critically accepted." Which 9/10 means making then lighter, but Snyder and Terrio already said BvS wouod be the last of the darker fioms, before BvS even came out. Based on the JL trailer alone it's pretty easy to see that story and world building wise they do in fact have a plan. SS was only thrown in because David Ayer asked them if he could do it, and he came up with a quick script (6 weeks) for them. It was used as filler more than anything to just show that these characters are there.

Ignoring the rumors and articles that are speculation, being put out as facts, Flash is the only movie right now that isn't on track. When you're constantly being flooded with rumors on a daily basis, claiming doom in gloom because someone heard from someone else that someone said something, things seem a lot worse than they are.

Lets be real here, as of now the DCEU is crazy successful and what they don't make during the screen time, they're making up for it in merchandise and DVD sales. Just because they expected to make more from something, doesn't mean it was a failure.

I think it is already firmly established. Everyone knows who Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and Flash are, and that there are now movies starring them.

The main reason why the DCEU is having a hard time getting established is because of two main things. The first is because the DCEU is trying to differentiate themselves from the MCU. It's good that they aren't trying not to copy, but they are going so far away from the proven successful methods of the MCU that they are having a hard time setting themselves in the ground. The second reason is because they lack a major supporter with experience such as Fiege, if they can change these things a little than they will become far more established.

@saberscar223: Hm maybe. I can see the dceu overtaking them with solid movies like The Batman, WW2, JLD, Flashpoint, and more.

@saberscar223: I am not sure Strange or Holland Spider-Man can be as lovable and RDJ tony stark and Evans Capt

I don't think Batman really needs to be set up anymore, especially with the approach they took.

Yawn

I think that their war with Darkseid could be their version of the Infinity War. And Justice League will probably set that up nicely.

It sucks that WB wanted to rush things because DC really had the potential to be something on the next level, especially with Zack's visuals and Zimmers score. Personally I think Man of Steel is a masterpiece and one of the best origin movies, if not the best, but people found a bunch of reasons to hate it (ALMOST all of which can be explained away very easily as false). BvS had a good core plot, music, casting (Luthor will progress), and visuals, but what ruined it is the editing, it's boring at points (everything adds to the plot but some of it is still boring), and the fact that it could have been better if done differently. The expectations were sky high.

Let's HOPE they slow things down and give us us the cinematic universe that DC, and the Justice League, deserves.

This is incorrect. In 2006 Comic Con, Feige openly said it was no coincidence that the characters they still had control over made up the Avengers, when asked if it's possible these movies could one day cross-pollinate:

And Sam Jackson himself may have been a last minute scene, but Downey filmed his Incredible Hulk scene while that movie was in production. There's no 'last minute' about it. Tanks not just with "Stark" on them, but the exact company logo from Iron Man. And it isn't like Hulk came out half a year after Iron Man, it shot at the same time, and came out just 1 month later.

Man of Steel 2 could have featured Lex Luthor. That way, we could have seen how Lex and Clark's relationship established. Unfortunately, it seems that didn't happen in BvS.

But I think WB had a plan for this. Maybe, they didn't want to make a Supes solo film centering him against Lex Luthor. That had been done a couple of times in the past, and it gets tiresome, just like Spider-Man facing Green Goblin.

Currently, I liked the way what WB is doing right now, considering Wonder Woman's success. If it weren't for BvS, the Wonder Woman movie wouldn't have happened.

Because they rushed it. Should of got MOS 2 and Jl solo Movies. (Screw trying to be different from Marvel, they're are other clear ways to be different)

Also the DCEU needed/needs one clear leader IMO and Zack Snyder just isn't the guy, He has amazingly visuals and loves the work ( What more could a comic book fan ask for) but he just wasn't fit for the job Imo. if anything maybe the directors of all the movies could form there own little "JL of directors who talk to each other and work together on the universe"

I think you hit the nail on the head. But the thing is, DC did have a plan. Well, Zack Snyder did but still. Back in 2014 before Batman v. Superman came out the plan was Justice League 1 would be uniting the team to fight Steppenwolf and then two years later they fight Darkseid. With a Flash, Aquaman, and Shazam! solo film between the two endeavors with possibly a Man of Steel sequel too. Followed up by The Batman, Cyborg, Green Lantern Corps. With sequels all coming after that. They even had ideas for villains that could appear like The Rogues in Flash, or Black Adam in Shazam!, etc. All of that sounds like a pretty legit plan for where they wanted their universe to go and who they wanted to establish. Just like you were saying. So, what happened?

WB and DC expected Batman v. Superman to be The Avengers of the DC Extended Universe, some massively popular super hit that would justify the existence of all the other projects and earn the trust and love from the public the MCU has been bathing in since 2012. But that didn't happen, it was poorly received and didn't even break a billion dollars. Snyder's influence on DC went down significantly and suddenly all of these plans were considered too risky for the DCEU. But since they didn't really have any contingencies outside of that original blueprint, they panicked and started randomly announcing any project that had a chance to be successful and threw it into the slate (Justice League: Dark, Gotham City Sirens, etc) but weren't rebooting the universe so they didn't necessarily remove any films either. Which just made everything look and feel like a complete mess. The MCU was lucky enough to have never been in that position, but if The Avengers had been received similar to Batman v. Superman I'm not sure if Disney would've been much different with the direction of any future Marvel movies.