Why people claim they don’t discriminate gay yet they don’t want see gay heroes as the main character?

I feel like you hear one thing from one person and then it becomes “everyone” and then you pick two options that are completely skewed.

For real, what’s the context here? Are people saying “no, don’t make this multi-decade long straight gay”? Because if it’s an established character, don’t change it. Is this character an actual gay character like say Apollo and Midnighter, and people wouldn’t want that in a movie because they are gay? Then that would be bigoted.

@god_spawn:

I once made a thread asking is the time MCU should start bring LGBT characters into their big screens, but 80% people in that thread don’t like that idea.

I can't speak for everyone but IMO, it comes down to 3 things.

Changing an established character

Like @god_spawn mentioned if a character was straight and then just turned gay just because... then people are not going to like them very much.

Unrelatable

This may sound bigoted but as a straight guy I prefer to see straight main characters(though this doesn't exclude gay female characters). This is especially so when it comes to relationship dynamics and sexual intimacy. I personally won't hate a gay guy as a person but wouldn't be interested in their love-life at all. It's not my cup of tea.

Majority rules

The current world has more straight people that homosexuals, and if the straight people prefer straight main characters then that's what they'll get, it's just business. Trying to sell homosexuality won't get the attention and approval it would if the world was majority homosexual.

They're probably the ones who say:

"I'm not homophobic, but I don't want this gay stuff going down my throat."

They have this feeling that queerness is being forced on them even though heterosexuality was forced on them since birth.

Also, with the "established character being straight," they can always come out the closet. Characters like Tim Drake and Storm are not straight, but they're not ready for that conversation.

Because it's nasty. No problem with lesbian homosexuality tho. There, I said it.

becouse you know its forced in hollywood.

loving another man is not the problem.

The problem is that one specific thing on a man is not for a specific thing on another man.period.

The problem it being forced into everything.

same goes for trans and lesbians.

Inb4 homophobic.

becouse not being for something that goes against nature itself is something im not allowed to do.

yh, and you wonder why ppl talk about brainwashed ppl lmao.

I can sleep in my car everynight but thats not why it was build.

same goes for the mens body parts.

Heterosexuality has been forced into everything since forever.

@batvibe12: makes it worse.

Many people don't really accept homosexuality - they just pretend they do, because that's our time's geist. It would be interesting how this attitude is going to be regarded 50 years into the future.

Somehow it's more accepted when women are despicted as homosexuals - even the rougher ones.

@nucleon: after 50 years you will see it in everything and any1 who goes against it is gonna be missed.

Using gay woman as an excuse is also stupid.

only becouse we have been teached to accept this but not the other doesnt make one right and other wrong.

both are wrong and no amount of the word homophobic changes it.

and accepting gay women and not gay men is literaly proving humans are being manipulated.

the ppl who accept homosexual women but not men are simply teached that way by society/parents.

thats not really their own perspective.

And trust me, the way hollywood , singer , rapper etc. affect society and how ppl think and behave , being gay is the smallest problem.

Because nobody wants to see it as it is cringy

They can't even do striaght relationships right on screen most of the relatioships in the MCU are awful

@arthur_morgan: What we're experiencing today is still in reaction - putting token homosexuals and people of colour etc according to some quota is still sexism/racism etc. We're big into "positive discrimination", but that's still discrimination.

For my part I wouldn't mind a gay hero - Deadpool damn nearly fits the bill - if it's done in a manner that doesn't agress me as a breeder or if it isn't just to fill some woke quota.

@nucleon: im just talking how it realy is.

if ppl tell me im positively discriminating than sure , tell me that but that doesnt change the fact that its true.

When it comes to things like that im literaly affected by hollywood , politics etc. by 0 %.

that entierly my own view.

if it means im discriminating gay ppl by saying these things than so be it.

im not even talking about being gay itself.

the acts that come with it are when it comes to nature , god or who or whatever made us , wrong.

i mean , i wonder what gay ppl would do if hollywood would force religion into everything.

Yeah people are pretty bigotry against LGBT people , they say they don´t have a problem just to look good

People don´t know a single thing about psychology and/or try to make a auto-analisys and say "gay people are trying to control the world" and don´t think about how dumb that sounds.

The problem is that this prejudice is institutional and a hidden part of culture. People say it "goes against nature" just because they don´t see it a lot and have been teached to not like.

Belive me all this crap about "human nature" doesn´t mean crap. Humans don´t have a much distint nature and most people belive that ( tabula rasa) until they get to their prejudices it´s so funny. There is no maternal/paternal instict. There is no universal right and wrong. No set of values is universal. You haven´t been born in vacum, i hate to break out to you guys, but most of what makes you think makes you "you" is the sets of relationships and overall culture you have.

If yall want to bring the argument of nature i say to yall to pay attention to nature. To how animals behave to be exact. If you want to try to justify with "cience" i say to ya´ll search in google scholar or if you can´t understand nothing there search for example "causes of transexuality".

You guys wanna argue that "it´s your opinion" but probably "your opinion" is the same of everybody around you, what just proves what you said

99% of all super heroes are white, male, hetero and cis. That don´t only isn´t a good picture of reality but:

1. Goes against the every nature of super hero comics, that everyone could be super, that everyone can do good and etc
2. Restrain criativity and stories that can be told. I mean how many original female super heroes there? how many of them don´t end with woman or girl? Who wants to see the same character doing the same things over and over again i mean besides dc fans ?
3. Excludes possible buyers and the emotional conection of other people.

I mean what is the real problem of representation? I bet hope when you guys watched for example fresh prince of Bel-air you guys never had any problems with this. I HOPE when people see black people doing things to reafirm their cultural identity, self- steam nobody here is disgusted or don´t want to watch, it´s impressive how people can´t see their own hipocrisy.

That people think it´s ok to be how it is, with these groups that only in the US make up to almost five % of the population and there are like 3 (hiperbole) heroes and like, almost none of them are the star of anything

edit: bf you guys say it im het and cis

@batvibe12: heterosexuality was forced by who exactly?

@batvibe12: I think the “having a character just come out the closet” is a cop out in most cases unless they have either never been in a relationship or they’ve had bisexual hints at their character. As far as I know of, Tim Drake has never had any bisexual hints, he’s been in relationships with a few girls. Storm I know has had bisexual hints for years and years so her being in a lesbian romance is fine. But I’ll use the Iceman example because I think the backlash was justified. Iceman has had no implications of ever being gay, has had multiple female relationships and thoughts. So just to become gay because why not was stupid.

I would definitely see a movie with Midnighter and Apollo, but first there would need to be an Authority movie first.

Most of the time it’s too forced and comes off as pandering. By “main” character do you mean making an already established and popular character (like Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, etc.) who have always been straight and then suddenly turning them gay for the sake of it? Because people being against that should be obvious. However, if you’re asking why someone might not want to see a movie with Daken or Wiccan or other LGBT characters as a lead in a movie/comic doing their thing with the same gender, it’s because most people simply don’t want to see that. Whether it’s because they disapprove of the lifestyle/are uncomfortable with it, feel it’s not relatable, or just don’t find characters, whose entire identity/conflict in life revolves around their sexual orientation, very interesting.

@ccthor:

>If it’s not wrong, then why they think this?

I suspect that many people are actually thinking that it is wrong, but are acting nicely 'cause politness or to avoid backlash. And the more chracters like you are trying to push token characters and quotes in movie with presumption that it'd make movie good, the more people'd start to see this as irritating and... wrong. You can look on, for example, disastrous Dark Phoenix with it's "X-women" or on Batwoman, TV serries about lesbian charater and blah-blah-blah that has like 10% of an audience score on rotten tomatoes.

Hey, we actually agree on something. Well said.

We sure have more homophobia, sexism and racism than we would like to admit. At the same time, we've learned what to like and expect whilst growing up and the reactions to "sudden" change isn't surprising at all.

As stated above by @macleen, people like relatable characters but by that he, and we generally mean straight white guys. If we actually can admit and see that we do prefer it that way, imagine how every non white, non hetro and non male person has felt about media throughout history. They seldom have any decent representation at all and when someone attempts it can feel forced and awkward. It's a shitty situation and we should generally be able to understand "the other side" of the scenario.

Making a good character should be possible regardless of gender, ethnicity or sexuality, but it falls short way to often. However, we've also seen it succeed every now and then. Like @nucleon mentioned above, a character presented like Deadpool could might as well been Bi or gay and it would just play off in a funny or meaningful way with him flirting with everyone and crude lines.

That's just my two cents on the topic. More than happy to debate and discuss this.

One of my favorite scenes in Doom Patrol was Negative Man talking to he's ex boyfriend. I liked it because I didn't need to be reminded that the two characters were gay, it wasn't the focus of the scene, the focus was two people who at one point loved one another coming together to talk. It was one of the best scenes the entire season.

I wish that was how, gay relationships were handle across the board, hell all relationship in entertainment.

Homophobia is still a big issue. People against it tend to have the mentality of “ I know it exists, but I don’t want to see it.” The thing is people were saying the same thing about interracial couples only a few decades ago, and some still do today. And the reason lesbians are viewed as acceptable is because men fetishizes them.

@arthur_morgan: What makes you think being gay is to be labeled right or wrong? Based on what?

The simple fact that you're categoryzing a consensual romantic relationship between two adults as wrong just show people who's the one that's been manipulated. And, ironically, you don't see it.

Wrong is killing without a good reason, stealing, abusing a child. They all have something in common, someone is being forced into a situation they don't want to be. Completely different from being gay.

And don't use the argument that it's not natural. Reserachers already showed that homosexual behavior is absolutely normal in the animal Kingdom. Whats the excuse? Hollywood forced the Animals too?

I dont like seeing two Men in an intimate situation in a mobile, like someone said, a relationship dynamic between a man and a woman is much more interesting to me.

They look down Gay

no one really thinks that way tho, at least not here.

Deadpool's bi yet no one has a problem with him.

@god_spawn: The reasoning behind Tim's possibility of being bisexual was his relationship with Superboy. He always had this "vibe" when he's around Conner. At the very least, he's bi-het.

With the Iceman situation, I do agree on the idea that it could've been handled better, but in real-world instances, there have been gay individuals who were in multiple heterosexual relationships, but later came out as gay. Iceman is an example. He wanted to hide his sexuality, but Jean outed him. But, it could've been done better, IMO.

@universeichigo1: All forms of entertainment.

@batvibe12: so you rather them make all the films a homosexual master peice to invigorate the majority of society to participate in such? Entertainment never really abolished any sexuality (excluding rear cases) they just only portrayed the heterosexual rather than the homosexual simply because it was what society saw as moral, if you say entertainment forced heterosexuality on us then aren't they also forcing homosexuality on us now that they portrayed more of homosexuality in their films?

Entertainment industry Never forced anything on anyone they simply portray what society gave Credence to.

@ccthor: I have nothing against exploration video games (Gone Home), but I have no interest in playing them. Should I buy them even when I have no interest in playing them?

@universeichigo1: The reason why I said “forced on us” because queerphobes will use the phrase, “forced down our throats” when a LGBTQ+ character appears, even though the same thing can be said about heterosexuality and heterosexuals.

@rukelnikovftw:

No but you don't have to against it.

Hmm, i don't have to what? Go against it?

@andrelf7: we are not animals.

and what does that have anything to do with the argument that hollywood is forcing it?

Like how is that even an argument lmao.

animals do not show homosexual behavior for the same reason humans show it.

an animal got no idea why it got an asshole.

we know.

this argument you have would work if we are cavemen LOL.

again im not talking about being gay , im talking about the specific acts that come with it.

its based on everything that matters when it comes to our creation.

god , nature , aliens(if they somehow created us ) and most importantly on the fuckin human body.

i cant believe i have to explain why putting a dam penis inside an asshole is not only wrong but one of the most stupid thing ever.

and yes, its equaly stupid when you do it with a woman when that woman got LITERALY a hole EXACTLY made for the penis right beside it.

holy shit , i just realized how stupid anal sex is.

To remind us not to be one prolly

@arthur_morgan: "hole exactly made for the penis"

Who told you that? Just because It fits? Just because that's how you reproduce? You're arguments are completely nonsense. You have some preconceived ideas that for some reason you assume as an absolute truth. So you think a BJ is wrong too? That hole is not meant for the penis too, right?

For now you gave zero reasons as to why you call It wrong aside from personal opinion.

Wrong is a label we put on things based on an evaluation, and usually we take into account the consequences of said things on us and others.

And i used the animals example opposed to you're idea of it not being natural. If It happens everywhere in Nature, it's by definition natural. You might no like it, that's entirely up to you, but it's natural. What's you're definition for natural?

Being gay isn't the problem.

Having social politics forced down someone's throat is the problem.

@arthur_morgan: If your point is that anal sex is stupid I have no problem with that. It's your opinion and you have the right to have It.

My problem with calling it wrong, is that we try to punish wrong behaviours based on their effect on our society. I dont Care If two Men are having anal sex as long as they don't force me or anyone else into it. I dont think they should be punished.

And using a natural/unnatural approach doesnt help. Im pretty sure you do a million unnatural things and you dont call It wrong. Be It using electricity, internet, computers, drinking anything other than water, using cars, they are all things created by men, therefore not natural. Unless your definition of natural is different.

whoops my bad i must have dropped this

That’s not discrimination

@faradaysloth:

So I am not a racist or hater even if I said I just don't want see any asian in a movie or other colored people?

@oswaldreturns said:

Really?

Yeah you're not a racist for this until you say that Asians or colored people (nice going straight for minorities btw) are inferior to white people in acting and thus should be banned from filmwork.

Then you're a racist.

@faradaysloth: I think it's also just racist to say that you don't want people of colour in films.

This.

But yeah, I have been seeing more and more of latter on cv lately.

Have them make the main love interest for Deadpool a male character in DP 3 and yes, there most definitely would be people making a big deal of it on internet.