Why is the Arrowverse considered so skilled?

So why exactly are Arrowverse characters considered to be so skilled in CQC and/or H2H combat?

Is it the choreography? Because Netflix Daredevil, the Winter Soldier movie, the Bourne Trilogy etc have better choreography.

Is it implied skill? Because Bourne is the best assassin on the planet, Ra's is the most skilled fighter in the Nolanverse, and Black Widow and Hawkeye are Avengers for a reason. Etc.

Is it the fact that they are TV show characters? This one I've never figured out because more feats does not mean better feats.

So again, why are they considered to be so skilled?

not a battle

This should go into the Gen. Disscussion. Their so skilled because 1. Its a good show so it gets fanboys (like DBZ) and 2. PLOT ARMOR EVERYWHERE!!

The first and second season had fights nearly on par with Daredevil so it hyped people. S3 was like bad dance choreography, minus some fights like Ollie vs Ra's, Diggle vs Brick, etc

They also have background to help them. Best I got. to be fair I think Oliver is a better h2h fighter than MCU Cap and Daredevil.

MCU cap was having decent trouble with batroc and without stats may have lost. Murdock wasn't exactly stomping anyone which made the show better but not his skills. Course his lost to nobu I wouldn't count. Its the equalivent of oliver losing to ras

@stormshadow_x said:

Cap stomped Batroc during the second part of the fight. Oliver had trouble with the second Count Vertigo and was once almost taken down, because the villain counted his arrows in advance and had one armed henchman more.

Arrowverse is considered skilled because the first season had good choreographie and Comicvine users decide at one point that one thing is the best and never budge again from that point. Pre-Retcon Beyonder being one such example, powerful sure but truth is nobody bothered to actually compare feats of the guy in years.

@

@stormshadow_x:

Chitauri are physically stronger than Cap and Hawkeye puts them down by hitting them with his bow, Black Widow is a better Hand-to-Hand combatant than he is.

Lets compare ships. slade needed his mirakuru boost to take down the crew of the amazo then lost to island-Olli after he had tortured him for a bit. Cap took down the pirates then was suprised by Batroc, then put his shield down, blocked every hit of Batroc with his hands and beat him.

Their abs distract fans from how terrible their skills are... and how bad everything else is too.

@stormshadow_x: When one of them pressed Cap to the ground during the battle in Avengers. And yes Chitauri are fodder along with anyone Slade ever fought except Billy Wintergreen and Oliver.

You might want to rewatch the Batroc fight, because Cap doesn't even use his shield during the second half effortlessly deflecting every blow of Batroc and essentially stomping him.

Thats not fair Olivers abs has only 30% of each episode as screentime and for season 3 they replaced half of that with repetetive scenes and cringeworthy Olicity dialogue.

LMAO

I'm actually very disappointed with Green Arrows skill development, I was hoping as the series evolved he'd go up in levels and maybe even to a point where he rivals his comic counterpart, but here we are at season 3? And I still see him getting taken down by cheap thugs and second rate villains, he never quite made the jump from vigilante to super-hero in my opinion, not that I'm down on the show but it's apparent he's never going to move far past the simple fighting we saw in season 1.

Maybe the expanding CW universe will force him to up his game but I don't think so.

What background? All it tells us is they are skilled, but not how skilled. We don't even know what martial arts they know, or to what degree. At least for Captain America, we have statements from the choreographers which tells us which martial arts Steve has mastered, so that acts as sort of a handbook entry. We don't have any of that for any Arrowverse character. So really, Steve has greater martial arts knowledge, and is therefore more skilled.

Cause literally everyone and their mom can catch arrows, that puts even low tier Arrow characters above the best Nolan can offer.

You speak the truth, once ComicVine comes to a conclusion about something, it's impossible to change people's minds, on pretty much anything.

This^

And I wanted to add Cap stomped Batroc and treating him like a child and that was strictly H2H no shield.

@stormdriven: what background? How about his training on the island, in Hong Kong, I know it's not as documented as it should be but does cap even come close to that? We see him take down batroc and then when it comes to alien fodder it's all athletics, shield and throw. The reason arrow verse is so skilled is because we consistently see a display of skill, and because feats like stealing a sword(or 2) from someone and dodging bullets and chopping throats are shown more frequently than the one feat of cap beating batroc, he only one that on the second time around anyway, if it weren't for his stats he probably would have lost

Nickzambuto

He is the reason

@redatom1234:

How about his training on the island, in Hong Kong, I know it's not as documented as it should be but does cap even come close to that

So we don't know what he knows, all we know is that he's skilled. Pretty much what I said already.

We see him take down batroc and then when it comes to alien fodder it's all athletics, shield and throw

This is a joke, right? The only movie he hasn't shown considerable skill in is The First Avenger, and even then he's not some unskilled mook like you and everyone else likes to try and make him out to be. And as if both acrobatics and Steve's shield throws aren't skills.

The reason arrow verse is so skilled is because we consistently see a display of skill

So choreography? Because according to every single debater for Arrowverse, choreography doesn't count. Try again.

and because feats like stealing a sword(or 2) from someone and dodging bullets and chopping throats are shown more frequently than the one feat of cap beating batroc

Those are what you define as skill? I guess guys like Spider-Man are more technically skilled then because he and others like him have done similar things. And you really think Steve beating Batroc is his only skill feat?

he only one that on the second time around anyway, if it weren't for his stats he probably would have lost

Wow. So that's really what this boils down to? Captain America only wins fights because he's Captain America. If he wasn't, he'd lose. That's how you sound right now. That's like saying "If the Flash didn't have the Speed Force, he'd lose." I'm real sick of the whole "Steve has stats, so he isn't skilled" bullshit that people like to throw around. If Steve didn't have his stats, he'd revert back to a skinny little kid and might very well lose all those fights he wins. Or he could go the way of his comic counterpart and still beat the hell out of people, since he still has all that technical knowledge. You have no idea for sure. But taking away one of the very things that makes him Captain America? Might as well take away all of Arrow's skill, and see if he wins any of his fights.

Did Nolan steal your lunch money? or Hitgirl's? you cant go one thread without low balling the guy.

@stormdriven:

1. If you want to know what it is, then go ask them yourself

2. Athletics, shield and throw are good for maybe CQC but I thought the thread was asking who is more skilled, cap is skilled but I don't think he is more skilled than many in the arrow verse, I only saw him show like one feat of skill, if you could show me some instances where it doesn't look like he's having a simple fight and actually uses some martial arts then yeah, I'll admit he is more skilled, but for now I'm leaving him at skilled.

3.not choreography, consistency, arrow verse are mostly normal humans that have to rely on skill to get them anywhere, we see Oliver's training montage, we see his fights with Nyssa, ra's, his stick fights with slade, I'm pretty sure he has shown something in every season. Whilst cap only have movies, it's rare to see him resort to something outside of CQC and shield throwing.

4.my bad, they aren't as good as they sound, I should have mentioned Oliver's fights against the league and him taking down mirakuru soldiers and his training both on the island and coming back, granted they don't sound like skill feats but when you watch these episodes look closely at his skill used.

5.well you said you wanted skill right? Captain America has stats that help him out with that, do you want to do it with the stats or without? Because either way I still haven't seen him consistently rely on any other kind of martial arts to make me think he is more skilled. Keyword being more.

Because it has been consistently shown that the cast of Arrow can dodge bullets, catch arrows, and defeat assassins.

I'm not here to put down Cap or Daredevil by saying they're trash compared to Ollie or anything but Arrow is definitely in the top three TV shows that have fighting.

I honestly put their fight scenes on par with the Raid series

No one in Arrow has dodged a bullet and the only reason they dodge arrows is because it's an archery themed show, everyone and their grand ma can dodge arrows and defeat fodder assassins in this universe. The fighting scale is completely whack in this universe apparently

Merlyn> Ollie

Ollie> Nyssa

Nyssa> Merlyn.

hilarious and that's just the tip of the ice berg, at least S1 had good choreography,

1. If you want to know what it is, then go ask them yourself

So a cop out argument. I guess all the Arrow defenders have asked, since they're so confident that everyone in Arrow is more skilled than Steve.

2. Athletics, shield and throw are good for maybe CQC but I thought the thread was asking who is more skilled, cap is skilled but I don't think he is more skilled than many in the arrow verse, I only saw him show like one feat of skill, if you could show me some instances where it doesn't look like he's having a simple fight and actually uses some martial arts then yeah, I'll admit he is more skilled, but for now I'm leaving him at skilled.

No, the thread is asking why is Arrowverse considered more skilled. And watch the Manhattan fight in Avengers or the entire Winter Soldier movie, you can clearly see he uses skill. I'd recommend AoU as well, but there's little availability to do so right now.

3.not choreography, consistency, arrow verse are mostly normal humans that have to rely on skill to get them anywhere, we see Oliver's training montage, we see his fights with Nyssa, ra's, his stick fights with slade, I'm pretty sure he has shown something in every season. Whilst cap only have movies, it's rare to see him resort to something outside of CQC and shield throwing.

Consistency of what? Sure we see Oliver train, but everyone claims he's a master of so many different martial arts, but nothing to back that up. Steve has actually mastered a handful of martial arts, while for all we know, Oliver can know a lot but be a master of none of them.

What do Nyssa's and Ra's fights have to do with skill? Unless of course you're referring to how they look, which circles us all the way back to choreography.

4.my bad, they aren't as good as they sound, I should have mentioned Oliver's fights against the league and him taking down mirakuru soldiers and his training both on the island and coming back, granted they don't sound like skill feats but when you watch these episodes look closely at his skill used.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we're back at choreography.

5.well you said you wanted skill right? Captain America has stats that help him out with that, do you want to do it with the stats or without? Because either way I still haven't seen him consistently rely on any other kind of martial arts to make me think he is more skilled. Keyword being more.

No, I wanted something definitive that proves to me everyone in Arrowverse is more skilled than Captain America. But it can't have anything to do with choreography, since everyone who defends Arrow claims it isn't fair since everything else being debated has better fight choreography, and choreography doesn't matter. Which is odd, because that's how real world techniques and fights are judged. And no using head canon either, since all the martial artsArrow characters are supposedly masters at are speculative at best.

First off, Steve doesn't have any skill feats outside of being Captain America. So it's impossible to judge him without stats. Secondly, he's a mixed martial arts fighter. The stunt coordinators and fight choreographers have said as much. So he isn't going to be "relying" on any one martial art at any time.

Interesting

Because Arrow fanboys are like "Arrow defeated (put the name of any main villain here) who is an arrow timer, this means he is skilled in h2h" because, you know, catching an arrow shows how many martial arts you know...

Also because Oliver have dealed with more fodders than Steve or Daredevil with less troubles, and I have no idea why they consider that a feat for Oliver and not a feat for CA or DD fodders, people tend to bring that argument a lot: "Arrow one shotted 3 fodders with a bow, WITH A BOW, DD in the other hand had trouble with 3 fodders, that means Arrow>DD". No!!! That only means Arrow fodders are crap, not that Arrow is more skilled than Daredevil!!!

Scaling and ABC logic mostly. That is not to say they lack skilled fighters of course.

Since when is scaling considering ABC logic?

@rbt: I said scaling and ABC logic. Never inferred they are the same.

What ABC logic are you talking about?

@rbt: A beat B who beat C, thus A beats C. I have seen this being used for characters like Wintergreen or Thea Queen

While I don't think this is completely accurate to say in battle forum, but if there is no context to any of those fights then it can most definitely be used to figure out someone's place in food chain. If Dinah were to loose to, say, Nyssa in a cqc fight, it won't be ABC logic to assume that Dinah is less skilled than someone like Oliver or Ra's, who are established as Nyssa's superior in the show.

They're skilled but not as much as people think in my opinion, there is an excessive amount of scaling and assumption that goes on, even by my standards.

They are skilled because their wanking fanbase says so.

Lmao

I agree with these tho.

They have good feats for one, and secondly, their implied skill does numbers on the battle forum. Characters like the Legends beating down skilled warriors of various different timelines and eras, fighting Vandal Savage, Time Lords, Assassins, Ninjas and the like. Oliver's lot beating down league of assassin members in H2H and it was already well established that a single goon there is pretty freaking skilled.

But hey, that's just my perception of things.