Why is DBZ so much inconsistent ??

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theamazingbatman

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#1  Edited By theamazingbatman

Why is to so??

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Stupid_People

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#2  Edited By Stupid_People

So much inconsistent?

Interesting word choice...

Also, not a battle.

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Lucano

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Poor writting? Not a battle tho.

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Fallschirmjager

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#4  Edited By Fallschirmjager

DBZ is pretty inconsistent, but no more inconsistent than comics have been. (sure someone is going to get butthurt over that statement)

The problem with DBZ is - power scaling. Not inconsistency.

Thor might be embarrassed by street levelers in speed 1 second and fly FTL the next, but at least he has those feats. We don't need to use some quantifiable attack he used 20 years ago and then power scale it after all his training / power ups.

etc.

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NukeA6

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#5  Edited By NukeA6

Because Akira Toriyama has bad memory. If we're talking about the anime, we also have filler that adds PIS to the mix (no way is Yamcha gonna beat Otherworld warriors who've been fighting before his grandparents were born).

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thelocust619

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@theamazingbatman: this belongs in general discussion.

Dragon Ball began as a parody of shonen manga, in a very similar way to One Punch Man. Goku himself was a parody of the overpowered lead characters commonly portrayed and exhibits many common traits to reflect this (huge appetite, stupidity/obliviousness, super duper hidden/unapparent strength, ect). By the time it got serious it already had a huge fan base, so it continued in its serious direction based on that instead of following the original intentions of the manga's creation. Almost everything after that simply became exactly what the fans wanted to see. The mangaka didnt follow his character's stats the way his fans do, he even said "power levels were introduced simply to show how meaningless they are", he was more about story, tension, and presentation then >accurately< chronologing a particular character's growth for stat reference.

Then, because of the huge fanbase, it was released overseas which led to translation errors, especially considering Japanese animation was still a new thing in America, the major studios of today had far less experience in accurately translating everything and took more liberties, resulting in inaccuracies abound. Add on the filler which dulls any anime and by that time the original point is lost.

By the time GT came around, Akira basically didn't even care anymore, he just said "okay" and let them do whatever, resulting in the abomination that entire series turned out to be as an outside source tried to "go back to its roots" without even truely understanding what they were

In his older age, he's probably regretting looking back and selling out his series, which is why he had no trouble retconning GT (and thank god for that). I believe he's seeking out his true roots and trying to return the series to what it does best....but even then people had to remind him Android 18's hair is blonde, not blue.

And that's why DBZ is inconsistent.

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Erik

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If you take out the filler, it's not very inconsistent at all if you pretend GT doesn't exist.

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reaverlation

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It's just power scaling.The inconsistencies that occur just benefit the earth lol. Piccolo destroyed the moon at such an early and weak stage.Now compare Piccolo with SSJ3 Goku who by that time should be a planet buster at absolute minimum.Overall it's power scaling though

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Marshall_Long

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If you were to look at Dragonball Z as a stand alone series without Filler, GT, Dragonball, and the movies(except Battle Of Gods), then it's really not that Inconsistent. It might have a few Inconsistencies but what series doesn't.

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Dratini1331

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Because Toriyama only wrote what he wanted to write, not what always made sense. Also, a lot of it is because of fan applied power scaling or the movies, which are officially of an alternate time line.

Basically, my stance is that DBZ is plot driven, and awesome. It's weakness is that it's plot sometimes conflicts for the sake of still having a plot. E.G. There wouldn't be a whole lot to do if Buu just blew up the planet, so he doesn't. It's really that simple.

Goku can dodge solar flare in DB because it's part of the comedic factor.

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DarthAznable

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#11  Edited By DarthAznable

Because Akira is yolo.

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alcoholbob

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#12  Edited By alcoholbob

Dragonball manga has few inconsistencies. The anime (DBZ) has a lot of filler which causes these inconsistencies. Nowhere in the manga was Goku ever hurt by a rock, or cut by glass. These are all filler or GT moments.

Although if you are referring to base Goku struggling with 40 tons that is an inconsistency with the rest of the series, in particular with Battle of Gods where Goku hollowed out King Kais planet with a punch.

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Alberto_Weskardo

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Not as much inconsistency as DC.

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vance_astro

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#14 vance_astro  Moderator

I heard that it's inconsistent because Akira Toriyama actually wanted to end the series at several points in it's existence.

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JasonHawke

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Comics are FAR more inconsistent than Mangas.

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vance_astro

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#16 vance_astro  Moderator

Comics are FAR more inconsistent than Mangas.

Not more inconsistent than DBZ though...

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JasonHawke

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@jasonhawke said:

Comics are FAR more inconsistent than Mangas.

Not more inconsistent than DBZ though...

That is so not true. You only saying that cause you dont like DBZ.

I know for a fact that Comics are extremely inconsistent at times cause they always be switching out writers and they aint always up-to-date on who they're writing about.

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vance_astro

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#18 vance_astro  Moderator

@jasonhawke said:

@vance_astro said:
@jasonhawke said:

Comics are FAR more inconsistent than Mangas.

Not more inconsistent than DBZ though...

That is so not true. You only saying that cause you dont like DBZ.

I know for a fact that Comics are extremely inconsistent at times cause they always be switching out writers and they aint always up-to-date on who they're writing about.

I love when people assume to know what I do and do not like based on what they disagree with me about....

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youknowwhattodo

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JasonHawke

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@jasonhawke said:

@vance_astro said:
@jasonhawke said:

Comics are FAR more inconsistent than Mangas.

Not more inconsistent than DBZ though...

That is so not true. You only saying that cause you dont like DBZ.

I know for a fact that Comics are extremely inconsistent at times cause they always be switching out writers and they aint always up-to-date on who they're writing about.

I love when people assume to know what I do and do not like based on what they disagree with me about....

Well Im glad you love me so!

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TrionAce

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Its pretty inconsisten since Goku as a kid could pick up a car with ease and as an adult he should've been leagues stronger. Not to mention the speed PIS

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JakeN7

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#22  Edited By JakeN7

Why is your grammar so much inconsistent?

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JakeN7

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@alcoholbob: I don't know why you and so many others think that lifting strength = striking strength. The use of ki is what allows them to destroy planets with their fingers, and make craters with their fists, it doesn't help them lift really heavy objects. 40 tons definitely sounds right. I didn't even bat an eye at it in BoG until the Internet blew up about it.

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ssj3gohan007

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Most of the DBZ Manga is fairly consistent, its when you bring up filler, movies, GT, etc. when the problems start. If you ignore those, the series makes a lot more sense then it usually does. Remember KI != Lifting Strength as it was mentioned before. They use KI for everything from enhancing their punches to kicks to destroying planets with it. Their physical strength doesn't necessarily increase at the same rate as their KI do. The "Power Levels" were based off of KI and not physical strength. If they stopped using KI or lose the ability to use KI for whatever reason, they would appear to be dramatically weaker then "Normal" or what people assume is "Normal" for them. Their lifting strength does increase over time but far slower than their KI or power levels do.

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deactivated-627010180bd2d

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So much inconsistent.

Why is to so?

So much DBZ wow.

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XLR87T3

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@alcoholbob: It is far more reasonable that Adult Goku can pick up an object the size of a mountain, considering the fact that Kid Goku lifted a rock that, based on its size, could easily be 700+ tons. Is Kid Goku stronger than his adult self? Of course not.

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PhoenixoftheTides

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Because it is a work of fiction.

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hart7668

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@xlr87t3 said:

@alcoholbob: It is far more reasonable that Adult Goku can pick up an object the size of a mountain, considering the fact that Kid Goku lifted a rock that, based on its size, could easily be 700+ tons. Is Kid Goku stronger than his adult self? Of course not.

Was that rock really 700 tons? Did he actually pick it up? Nope, he pushed it.

I just want to point out that 60 kg x 300 = 18,000 kg not 180,000 kg
I just want to point out that 60 kg x 300 = 18,000 kg not 180,000 kg

Vegeta trains under 300 times gravity which makes him weigh 18 tons, and that is excrutiating. So, base Goku failing 40 tons yet SSJ1 Goku making it seem like nothing makes sense.

But Dragon Ball has never been about heavy lifting. It's always maximing control and damage output.

I don't think Dragon Ball is so much inconsistent as it is vague. There are a few things that are a bit more concrete than "he's faster/stronger than the other guy who is faster/stronger than the other other guy etc" (and, interestingly enough, they're mostly found in Dragon Ball).

I think if we ignore the whole "Goku vs. Superman" hooplah and just enjoy DBZ for what it is, life would be just so much better.

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frozen

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#29  Edited By frozen  Moderator

@erik said:

If you take out the filler, it's not very inconsistent at all if you pretend GT doesn't exist.

Well, many don't consider GT canon. Do you consider it canon?

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frozen

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#30 frozen  Moderator

@vance_astro: I actually think the DC powerhouses are more inconsistent.

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#32  Edited By cameron83

@marksand65 said:

@frozen: @frozen: @hart7668: the manga is mistranslated

Well, many don't consider GT canon. Do you consider it canon? it was ok by the guy that made it it is a side story not the main one

I actually think the DC powerhouses are more inconsistent.

I'm not a marvel DC hater or fan and I don't know much about them

I guess I've read more japanese manga than american comics, but I've idolized the batman 1990s animated series as a child and ive watched superman, batman, x-men, captain america, etc tv shows, read superman, x-men comics, and watched all the marvel movies, and until now I thought that they were pretty weak compared to manga characters, but in the battles forum marvel characters all seem to have godly powers and powers that make them nearly invincible.

Why are the plots so inconsistent and why do characters get revived?

Why does the artwork change so frequently?

Why does a character suddenly get a power boost for no reason?

Ive read a few posts on the battle form and from this i learned from marvel fans that these characters rape goku, vegeta, and buu (who can teleport, fly, can a destory planet in seconds)

odin- apparently is a multi-galaxy buster

thor- has planet busting duraility, time travel, can destroy planets with brute strength, can throw people out of the solar system, FTL, can traverse dimensions, survive in a vaccum

"Thor has not only taken on planet-busters, but stood his ground against a universe-wiper (Surtur). And btw, Eric after getting used to the powers a bit, and getting pissed off. KO'd Gladiator, a guy who can crush a star between his arms and smash planets with his fists and travel across galaxies in minutes,.Thor can absorb any attack Vegeta throws at him, port Vegeta to another dimension, transmute him into garbage, crush his skull with a single blow" -Reikai

captain america- " Cap Marvel is FTL. He flies across the cosmos. you don't get anywhere if you're not FTL. Quasar proved this when he dumped Starman a lightyear from the sun and said along the lines if "If you can move at the speed of light I'll see you in a year!"

silver surfer- " He's faster than they could ever hope to be, he can transmute them at will, siphon/absorb all of their ki and make them powerless, ignite stars and super nova and open up black holes. He cross a lightyear in an instant. Think about that. A lightyear is the distance light travels in a year (365 days). That would be 5,865,696,000,000miles. Lightspeed is roughly 186,000mi/s. That would mean the Surfer was moving at a rate of 31,536,000xLightspeed"

hulk- lifted a mountain? and is also indestructible?

flash-so fast that multiple images occur, and can trap people in dimensions(speed force)

juggernaut- indestructibe, unlimited stamina, forcefield, doesnt need to breathe . " Juggernaut may not be "fast" but he has quick enough reflexes to hit people that can go toe to toe with lightspeed characters. For instance, Juggernaut has beaten the crap out of Thor many times, and Thor has fought successfully with characters like Gladiator who can go lightspeed. "- some dude in the battle forum

superman- much much faster than the speed of light . his sneeze can destroy a solar system... and he can lift 200quintillion tons...

dont these abilities mean that they are invincible? how do the lose or how does their opponenets not get raped in seconds? Logically their opponents should be raped in seconds, but the last time i checked dc/marvel battles arent very one sided and their opponents they all end up putting a decent fight

Now when I read x-men comic books watched the tv shows and movies theese heroes did have super powers but not as nearly as strong as these

ex) I knew the hulk was strong enough to easily throw around cars and tanks but to lift a mountain? really? when did he get the power boost?

and how the heck do heroes like these battle with the upper mentioned characters and put up a good fight

spider man - come on.... compare his physical endurance and speed with dbz characters

ironman - hes even weaker than frieza... no wait frieza is a planet buster while iron man is a city buster

wonder woman -how can thor beat goku and vegeta when hes gets owned by spiderman......

and when these heroes get punched by jugg, hulk, thor, or the hulk shouldnt their bones be fractured to the point where they cant fight?

and if those characters have enough physical strength to kill goku, buu why cant they one hit other enemy heroes?

How can thor beat dbz characters when he gets raped by spiderman? O and i thought he was FTL and could time travel

By marvel/dc logic The Flash should be the strongest character in the anime/manga/comic universe since he travels the fastest and can trap people in dimensions right?

or the silver surfer

silver surfer- " He's faster than they could ever hope to be, he can transmute them at will, siphon/absorb all of their ki and make them powerless, ignite stars and super nova and open up black holes. He cross a lightyear in an instant. Think about that. A lightyear is the distance light travels in a year (365 days). That would be 5,865,696,000,000miles. Lightspeed is roughly 186,000mi/s. That would mean the Surfer was moving at a rate of 31,536,000xLightspeed"

Didnd't the silver surfer get defeated by human made missiles or some shit?

realy? 200 quintillion tons lol and a sneeze that is strong enough to destory the solar system? ( as a kid i watched the animated series in which he struggled to even stop missiles...)

and yet he sometimes tends to struggle defeating his enemies(even ones who dont have kryptonite)

and he still cant one hit an enemy...

Superman should be able to curbstomp anything in existence in a second...

I liked Marvel and DC animations and films because the character designs and plot were entertaining and their abilities were cool and easy to undertsand but the comics have too many words, confusing inconsistent plot, and weird abilities . .

ex: igniting stars and super nova and opening up black holes, crossing a lightyear in an instant. a sneeze destroying a solar system and the Surfer moving at a rate of 31,536,000xLightspeed... its too complicated and doesnt make much sense.

I like japanese manga and comics more because the characters have cool, unique, powerful, abilities which are also easy to understand...

l also like xmen and batman

That was so hard to read.....and a lot of the stuff you mention (eg,Superman sneezing away a galaxy) was from,what,the silver age? That was retconned out. It no longer exists.

EDIT:

'Why does the artwork change so frequently?"

....um,who cares? The same guy cannot draw/write the character forever,ya know.

"Why are the plots so inconsistent...revived"

I can ask the same thing about anime characters. And again,its not all comic characters.As I said,most comics are consistent. It sounds to me like you haven't really read a lot of comics....at all. Although you sort of said that already.

A lot of what you are saying is either

  • PIS- meaning that it's out of character and non-frequent showings
  • Out of context-meaning you're bringing up instances without even knowing the situation.
  • Also,regarding Thor,Travel speed=/= combat speed. And again,Thor jobs too much.

Have you ever read a comic? It sounds like you barely even read them?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And why do some people on this thread try to derail comics as if Comics are 90% consistent with only 10% consistency? Because there are different writers? The truth is that 90% of writers write the characters in a consistent way,and only 10% write them inconsistently imo.

And growing in power has nothing to do with inconsistency. Many Marvel and DC characters gradually grow more powerful over time,and the times that they randomly spike it may be explained later. For example,Iceman grew over time,but nowhere near as powerful as he is today. I think that the reason that he's powerful as he is today is because his potential was unlocked by a telepath,at least so I heard.

I mean,comics have some inconsistency,so does manga and EVERY form of fiction,but it's not "comics are 99% inconsistent and 10% consistent." Don't do that s*it where you lowball comics and misrepresent them just in favor of manga.

Btw,that last part is a bit of rambling,and to the guy I addressed,only the first sentence was meant for you.

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RetconCrisis

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The only inconsistent parts of DBZ are the movies and OVAs because they are all written by different writers. For example, the Tree of Might movie barely fits anywhere... neither does Fusion Reborn or Wrath of the Dragon. Also, GT was written by different writers, and it's inconsistent, as shown when Gohan goes Mystic at EoZ but in GT he can go Super Saiyan...

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deaditegonzo

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#34  Edited By deaditegonzo

Because Akira Toriyama never cared about what the fanboys care about.

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cameron83

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#35  Edited By cameron83

@marksand65 said:

@frozen: @frozen: @hart7668: the manga is mistranslated

Well, many don't consider GT canon. Do you consider it canon? it was ok by the guy that made it it is a side story not the main one

I actually think the DC powerhouses are more inconsistent.

Opinion.

I'm not a marvel DC hater or fan and I don't know much about them

No offense,but I can tell that you don't know a lot about them.

I guess I've read more japanese manga than american comics, but I've idolized the batman 1990s animated series as a child and ive watched superman, batman, x-men, captain america, etc tv shows, read superman, x-men comics, and watched all the marvel movies, and until now I thought that they were pretty weak compared to manga characters, but in the battles forum marvel characters all seem to have godly powers and powers that make them nearly invincible.

Not all of them. It depends on who you're talking about and who you put them against. Characters that have been around for 20 years,at the least,will naturally progress and have a lot of feats.

Why are the plots so inconsistent and why do characters get revived?

This is rare. Some characters are revived,sometimes,by plot. Or it turns out that they weren't really dead.

Regarding the plot,that is also rare. If Scott Lobdell or Rob Liefeld is writing,you have a point,but most of the time,as in 99% of the time,the plot is consistent. It's called PIS. There's a reason that it's looked down upon....because PIS is non-consistent with the way that they are usually portrayed.

The exact same can be said of manga,and even despite being written by the same person.

Why does the artwork change so frequently?

The same artist cannot work on the same book for all of their life,ya know. Give others a shot at the character.

And besides,what does it matter? It's part of business.

Why does a character suddenly get a power boost for no reason?

99% of characters don't get a power boost "for no reason". There is a reason to it most of the time. It depends on the story,and is usually explained. Most of the time,it's gradual increase.

Ive read a few posts on the battle form and from this i learned from marvel fans that these characters rape goku, vegeta, and buu (who can teleport, fly, can a destory planet in seconds)

odin- apparently is a multi-galaxy buster

Odin is a god and a skyfather. That's like putting God up against Superman,

thor- has planet busting duraility, time travel, can destroy planets with brute strength, can throw people out of the solar system, FTL, can traverse dimensions, survive in a vaccum

That's debatable,and it's only a part of Thor's power. When written correctly,he can stomp Goku,and arguably beat Superman. Superman can also arguably beat both of them (seperately),as well.

"Thor has not only taken on planet-busters, but stood his ground against a universe-wiper (Surtur). And btw, Eric after getting used to the powers a bit, and getting pissed off. KO'd Gladiator, a guy who can crush a star between his arms and smash planets with his fists and travel across galaxies in minutes,.Thor can absorb any attack Vegeta throws at him, port Vegeta to another dimension, transmute him into garbage, crush his skull with a single blow" -Reikai

Read more Thor comics.

captain america- " Cap Marvel is FTL. He flies across the cosmos. you don't get anywhere if you're not FTL. Quasar proved this when he dumped Starman a lightyear from the sun and said along the lines if "If you can move at the speed of light I'll see you in a year!"

Wtf? Captain America and Captain Marvel are NOT the same person. They don't even have the same name. Captain Marvel is the magical equivalent of Superman. They aren't even in the same company......I don't think you know a lot about these characters.

silver surfer- " He's faster than they could ever hope to be, he can transmute them at will, siphon/absorb all of their ki and make them powerless, ignite stars and super nova and open up black holes. He cross a lightyear in an instant. Think about that. A lightyear is the distance light travels in a year (365 days). That would be 5,865,696,000,000miles. Lightspeed is roughly 186,000mi/s. That would mean the Surfer was moving at a rate of 31,536,000xLightspeed"

Again,Silver Surfer is a guy that got his power from Galactus. He's practically a god. He's a herald-level character. He can easily stomp the likes of Goku. This is NOT a fair matchup.

hulk- lifted a mountain? and is also indestructible?

Hulk has done feats FAR more impressive than lifting mountains. And he's not really indestructible,that's just an adjective in front of his book. Like Amazing Spider-man

flash-so fast that multiple images occur, and can trap people in dimensions(speed force)

Flash is recognized as one of the most powerful people in comics. He would kill Goku before Goku could even register that a fight started. This is not a fair battle. This is like putting Silver Surfer up against a cop. He can also do WAY more than that.

juggernaut- indestructibe, unlimited stamina, forcefield, doesnt need to breathe . " Juggernaut may not be "fast" but he has quick enough reflexes to hit people that can go toe to toe with lightspeed characters. For instance, Juggernaut has beaten the crap out of Thor many times, and Thor has fought successfully with characters like Gladiator who can go lightspeed. "- some dude in the battle forum

Again,Juggernaut is one of those developed characters that can do A LOT more than that.

superman- much much faster than the speed of light . his sneeze can destroy a solar system... and he can lift 200quintillion tons...

Superman cannot sneeze away galaxies. That was ONE instance from more than 50 years ago that was retconned out. He can fly WAY faster than that,and he is stronger than that. Ask @allstarsuperman He knows more about Superman than I do.

dont these abilities mean that they are invincible? how do the lose or how does their opponenets not get raped in seconds? Logically their opponents should be raped in seconds, but the last time i checked dc/marvel battles arent very one sided and their opponents they all end up putting a decent fight

Again,this depends on who you put them up against. Spider-man can stomp Captain America,but put Spider-man up against,let's say,Hulk,and it's a different story. Also,their villains have powers/abilities that are equal or greater to their own. OR they have abilities that allow them to fight the heroes. For example,Captain Cold (flash villain) can turn the entire environment absolute zero,which means that it would be nigh-impossible for Flash to move.

Now when I read x-men comic books watched the tv shows and movies theese heroes did have super powers but not as nearly as strong as these

Um.TV portrayals have nothing to do with comics. And TV portrayals are usually weaker.

ex) I knew the hulk was strong enough to easily throw around cars and tanks but to lift a mountain? really? when did he get the power boost?

Hulk has always been that strong. So have many of these characters.

and how the heck do heroes like these battle with the upper mentioned characters and put up a good fight

spider man - come on.... compare his physical endurance and speed with dbz characters

Spider-man is border street level. He is NOT DBZ level or even city buster level. It's called an unfair matchup. On here,it's called Spite

ironman - hes even weaker than frieza... no wait frieza is a planet buster while iron man is a city buster

Correct. Again,it's called spite.

wonder woman -how can thor beat goku and vegeta when hes gets owned by spiderman......

It's called PIS.As in,it's not how they are usually portrayed. And wtf does Wonder Woman have to do with Thor? Do you even know about the characters you're talking about? You should REALLY pick up more comics.

and when these heroes get punched by jugg, hulk, thor, or the hulk shouldnt their bones be fractured to the point where they cant fight?

Depends on who you're talking about. It also depends on consistency. What I mean by that is,how often do they get hit by these people or people on THIS level and survive? Thor can get hit by Hulk and survive. However,the same cannot be said for someone like Professor X

and if those characters have enough physical strength to kill goku, buu why cant they one hit other enemy heroes?

1. IT DEPENDS ON WHO THEY ARE UP AGAINST!! EX,GLADIATOR=/=Captain America in terms of ANYTHING physically.

2.They're called MORALS. As in,Spider-man is not going to hit an average thug with the same force he uses on Venom. They are usually not out to kill.

3. Some enemies can take the punches. Some can even laugh them off.

How can thor beat dbz characters when he gets raped by spiderman? O and i thought he was FTL and could time travel

1. Time traveling has NOTHING to do with combat speed. He time travels by opening portals.

2. Travel speed has NOTHING do with combat speed. As in,flying faster than light is not the same as,let's say,reacting at FTL.

3. That Spider-man showing is called PIS. Thor should be able to kill Spider-man if he wanted to,although Spider-sense might make it a bit hard at first.

By marvel/dc logic The Flash should be the strongest character in the anime/manga/comic universe since he travels the fastest and can trap people in dimensions right?

Not the strongest. For example,Spectre,TOAA,GOD,THE PRESENCE,Galactus,and hundreds of other characters are more powerful than him. And he doesn't trap people in the speed force every day.

or the silver surfer

Again,not the strongest. He wants to save/protect worlds,not destroy or kill.

silver surfer- " He's faster than they could ever hope to be, he can transmute them at will, siphon/absorb all of their ki and make them powerless, ignite stars and super nova and open up black holes. He cross a lightyear in an instant. Think about that. A lightyear is the distance light travels in a year (365 days). That would be 5,865,696,000,000miles. Lightspeed is roughly 186,000mi/s. That would mean the Surfer was moving at a rate of 31,536,000xLightspeed"

Didnd't the silver surfer get defeated by human made missiles or some shit?

1. Source? I want to know about this instance. I've never seen about it

realy? 200 quintillion tons lol and a sneeze that is strong enough to destory the solar system? ( as a kid i watched the animated series in which he struggled to even stop missiles...)

Animated series was a jobber. IT was also full of PIS. He could get defeated by Batman if the show demanded it. Comics ARE NOT the same with animated series. The portrayal in a TV show has nothing to do with the portrayal in a comic. You seem to not know about Superman.

and yet he sometimes tends to struggle defeating his enemies(even ones who dont have kryptonite)

Are you talking about people like H'el? Who is,btw,just as strong,if not,stronger than Superman? Has telepathy? Can teleport? And can do so much more? Who are you talking about? Give examples. Lastly,again,there is a thing called PIS. As in,inconsistency.

and he still cant one hit an enemy...

Superman has morals. He will not one-hit every freaking enemy he sees,especially when the situation can be resolved (if possible) by communication.

then the death battle?

Have you ever read a comic in your life? I know I keep saying this,and I'm not trying to be mean,but Death Battle has NOTHING to do with comics/anime. Death battle is a fanmade thing and it's only an opinion.

I liked Marvel and DC animations and films because the character designs and plot were entertaining and their abilities were cool and easy to undertsand but the comics have too many words, confusing inconsistent plot, and weird abilities . .

It's better in comics. In comics,it's also easy to understand,but you're basing your entire knowledge on comics on things like Death Battle,which has nothing to do with comics,or things that happened 50+ years ago. Put simply,it's like you don't even read comics. It's like you just walked into a battle forum and that is what you're basing your knowledge on.

ex: igniting stars and super nova and opening up black holes, crossing a lightyear in an instant. a sneeze destroying a solar system and the Surfer moving at a rate of 31,536,000xLightspeed... its too complicated and doesnt make much sense.

Yet the things Goku does is just completely plausible.

It depends on which characters you're are talking about friend. If we're talking about Gods or people with Godlike abilities,then yes,they can do many,if not,all of these things. Destroying a solar system with a sneeze is no longer canon,and can you show me where Silver Surfer EVER moved that fast? Even if he did,you do know that he's a herald,right? As in,he is NOT Batman-level. You're saying it doesn't make sense,but for some of these,you don't even get the characters right.

This is captain america

This is Captain marvel,now called Shazam.

I like japanese manga and comics more because the characters have cool, unique, powerful, abilities which are also easy to understand...

They are easy to understand. It's just that you don't really.....know much to anything about them. TV shows and movies ARE a good introduction to them,but the comics are more powerful,especially being that they are the ones that the TV is based off of.

l also like xmen and batman

Sorry if I seem hostile,it's just that I am a bit frustrated. To put simply:

  • You aren't really familiar with the comics...at all. How can you call them confusing when you don't read them? You're just randomly pulling up facts,some of them are from things that AREN'T even CANON (like Death Battle),or they have been retconned a LONG time ago (Superman sneezing away planets). Most everything else you said is just taken out of context. And for many of those things you stated,they have ALWAYS been in-line with the characters. Put simply:

READ.THE.COMICS.

Lastly,yes,a lot of the characters you listed (sans Spider-man and Captain America) can beat Goku. Captain Marvel/Shazam can. And there are tons of others,like Gladiator,Superman,etc that arguably can. Hell,I even give Power Girl a shot.

Let me put it this way,Arkham city Batman couldn't even dodge a bullet. Comic Batman can do it with his eyes closed. Does that mean that the comics are consistent?? No. That wouldn't even make any sense.

You're basing your knowledge on comics on:

-Out of context feats,some of them aren't even canon anymore.

-TV shows,which are a good intro,but only a shadow of what the characters are capable of.

-Things made by fans on youtube,which are not even affiliated with comics.

Basically put,you're basing your knowledge of comics on everything BUT comics,and then saying that it's "inconsistent" or that they have " a sudden power increase",or you ask questions that don't even take the morals into account,like why doesn't Superman one-punch every enemy. Come on,now. He's not going to hit a crook with the same hit he uses on Doomsday.

Long story short,read the comics,mate :)

Everything will make sense when you base the comic book characters,on,you know....the comics :)

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Erik

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@frozen said:

@erik said:

If you take out the filler, it's not very inconsistent at all if you pretend GT doesn't exist.

Well, many don't consider GT canon. Do you consider it canon?

I know many don't and no, I absolutely do not consider GT canon. I consider it an alternate universe.

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JakeN7

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@erik: It was canon until BoG. Now according to Toriyama's official statements, it's considered "a possible future," so yeah basically an alternate universe. Think Age of Apocolypse, Days of Future Past, Ultimate Universe, Damian as Batman, etc.

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hart7668

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GraniteSoldier

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#39  Edited By GraniteSoldier

@fallschirmjager said:

DBZ is pretty inconsistent, but no more inconsistent than comics have been. (sure someone is going to get butthurt over that statement)

The problem with DBZ is - power scaling. Not inconsistency.

Thor might be embarrassed by street levelers in speed 1 second and fly FTL the next, but at least he has those feats. We don't need to use some quantifiable attack he used 20 years ago and then power scale it after all his training / power ups.

etc.

This, although the power level thing I felt was a bit of an inside joke, that as the series goes on the viewer eventually gets in on: that power levels don't matter.

The only power scaling that ever makes sense is Goku can beat Frieza, and Frieza can destroy planets casually, so it stands to reason Goku could. Why doesn't he? Because that's not who he is, he isn't going to go around casually busting planets. People bring up the gravity thing, but it's important to remember that much of their training is down without powering up, it's like Iron Fist without amping his physicals with chi. Same concept. There's also the fact DBZ has more to do with striking than lifting. To someone's point above, Goku may never have shown he can "lift" a mountain, but he's destroyed them punching someone into them, flying through one, and even with low-level chi blasts. DBZ doesn't really focus at all on lifting, except when under gravity training which is again done without their chi to maximize their payoff of the training (I believe King Kai points this out on his planet by forbidding Goku from using his chi under training). Also that characters' reflexes and combat speeds are far, far faster than their travel speeds and that always throws people off.

@erik said:

If you take out the filler, it's not very inconsistent at all if you pretend GT doesn't exist.

I'm fairly certain that GT isn't canon, hence why it seems everyone gets a drastic downgrade in power and abilities. Although if the rumors are true that there is going to be another 200 DBZ episodes made, then GT undoubtedly non-canon. I'm aware you responded to people above about this, but I just wanted to make a point that GT is where many inconsistencies come in.

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frozen

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#40 frozen  Moderator

@erik said:

@frozen said:

@erik said:

If you take out the filler, it's not very inconsistent at all if you pretend GT doesn't exist.

Well, many don't consider GT canon. Do you consider it canon?

I know many don't and no, I absolutely do not consider GT canon. I consider it an alternate universe.

Neither do I. In fact, I don't even consider it alternate universe, I just don't think it happened. The ending was awful too.

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Erik

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@frozen: I only got about 15 episodes into the series before I decided to never come back.

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#42 frozen  Moderator

@erik said:

@frozen: I only got about 15 episodes into the series before I decided to never come back.

LOL, you should stay away from the ending then. It was downright awful and dumb, so I'm glad it wasn't canon because if it was, it would ruin the DB universe.

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Because Toriyama only wrote what he wanted to write, not what always made sense. Also, a lot of it is because of fan applied power scaling or the movies, which are officially of an alternate time line.

Basically, my stance is that DBZ is plot driven, and awesome. It's weakness is that it's plot sometimes conflicts for the sake of still having a plot. E.G. There wouldn't be a whole lot to do if Buu just blew up the planet, so he doesn't. It's really that simple.

Goku can dodge solar flare in DB because it's part of the comedic factor.

Good answer.

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ancient_god

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Because is fiction and without some filler and plot it would be a short history

Oh and in DBZ Powerscaling>>Feats

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Transformers1024

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Because it's a child's anime that throws logic and reasoning out the window for the sake of it.

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Oh and in DBZ Powerscaling>>Feats

powerscaling = assumptions.

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CaptainMarvel4Ever

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It's inconsistent because it's not a very good series, or a very well thought out one. DBZ is something that we shouldn't take seriously, or we won't enjoy it.

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ancient_god

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Whatever help you to sleep in night, DB is based on power

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kyrees

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#49  Edited By kyrees

@ancient_god: DB is based on power but it doesn't help that the more rabid fans powerscale to infinity, thinking such powerscaling defeats really powerful being. it can be used reasonably but to powerscale and say they can defeat beings like galactus and above is being overly fanatic to it.

another thing, assuming you read the rules of battle forum and has read the ban of dragonball, powerscaling isn't that more believable compared to feats in the battle forums because of the nature of each one's powerscaling interpretation can be different that no one agreement can be reach.

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ancient_god

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#50  Edited By ancient_god

@kyrees: yeah is not good powerscaling up to infinity, but as while people think they can beat beings above Galactus others think Superman and likes can defeat solo DBZ