Why I think DC has SUPERIOR female characters compared to Marvel

@agent41: it probably won't WW did very well better than most Marvel solo movies and was actually a good movie Captain Marvel has no guartee of doing well

DC has... Supergirl, Powergirl, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Batgirl(Barbara), Batgirl(Cassandra Cain), Catwoman, Starfire, Black Canary, Huntress, Zatanna and to top it all off... Wonder Woman.

So uh, do the X ladies not count, or. . .?

They're not touching DC females imo.

You're joking right? What has Huntress or Starfire done or been in to say they even graze characters like Kitty Pryde or Emma Frost? Where's Zatanna Demon Bear Arc? or Ivy's Brood Saga? or Starfire Days of Future Past?

@v2-schneider:

Who says only Huntress or Starfire for DC female characters? Point is that MOST the characters I listed have sustained their own solos for quite some time. Unlike the X-ladies Thats a fact. And Kitty Pryde is not that big outside the X-Men.

@agent41: I never said she would be bigger than Wonder Woman, no female superhero will ever be that big.Wonder Woman is the female equivalent of Superman in the sense that she transcends popularity, they're an icon.

That being said, you'd be a fool not to bet on the success of a Captain Marvel solo movie. Doctor Strange grossed nearly 700 million at the box office. Black Panther is currently tracking to open to similar numbers as Justice League. Both of these characters were largely unknown five years ago. That Disney/MCU machine is no joke.

Not too mention, Marvel isn't exactly subtle about wanting Carol to be their Wonder Woman. Don't quote me on it, but I remember while discussing her a while back, that Fiege said that she would likely be the most powerful Avenger. They are going to be pushing Captain Marvel heavy post production, and I'll bet anything if she does appear in Avengers 4, she's going to get a major push over most of the established characters there as well. Things would have to seriously go left for this film to flop.

Again, I'm not saying she's going to be a bigger name than Wonder Woman, but Carol will likely become the most popular female Marvel hero after her solo film and if she plays a part in Avengers 4. 2019 is going to be her year. And this is coming from someone who doesn't like Carol, or the current push she's getting. I'm just being objective.

Marvel always lacked in writing department. Be it comics or character development(male & female both) . Spiderman and few are exception. DC always had superior writing. Getting deep into character is always their forte. That's the reason DC has better animated movies than those dire marvel. Until MCU came.

As I said, Marvel fanboys are in denial

DC has many great female characters, I would like them to use Dr Light ( Kimiyo Hoshi) more though. They should also create a new and original black female superhero, what they've done with Power Girl was idiotic.

Lol More DCU overhyping. When will it ever end. It's like DC fanboys are constantly feeling inferior so they do stuff like this to vent.

"@agent41: I never said she would be bigger than Wonder Woman, no female superhero will ever be that big.Wonder Woman is the female equivalent of Superman in the sense that she transcends popularity, they're an icon."

Why do you think Marvel fans get off on watching DC get humiliated? Because of sh*t like this. DC IS NOWHERE NEAR WHAT FANBOYS HYPE THEM UP TO BE. Never was never will be. You can blame Snyder, Whedon, DC, WB or whoever. In the end DC was always going to lose. Marvel just resonates with the general audience better. The only time DC beats Marvel in anything is by default. Like in animation. Marvel hasn't really tried to compete. They can take it from DC and humiliate them whenever there ready. Marvel is more popular, better characters and more A-listers. If they ever started making animation like DC's they'd humiliate them. DC over uses Batman for a reason. He's the only real money maker they have. Marvel could put out 10 times the animation as DC if they wanted and ALL of them would sell. Completely blowing DC out of the water just like TV and movies. DCU is a distant second.

Excluding the three years Marvel went bankrupt and sold rights to film studios Marvel has beat DC for nearly 60 years in a row in comic sales! Wherever Marvel equally competes DC WILL BE humiliated.

Marvel completely owns movies, TV and comics. Guess where DC gets humiliated next? Videogames. In 2018 Marvel is announcing a whole line up of AAA console titles. Starting with Spiderman PS4. Avengers Ptoject and another AAA GotG game. But get this they said "we're announcing several titles in 2018. We're going for game of the years on every game.'" The only stand out game DC has is Arkham. That's just ONE AAA game. As usual DC has been blown way out of proportion in this area. Marvel is about to destroy them in gaming world unless DC attacks gaming like Marvel is doing.

Basically Marvel is the boss of comics. Over the next few years will witness them systematically dominate DC in everything. It's simply there time. Deal with it and stop making silly post like these.

And arguing with me about it is not going to stop the inevitable humiliation. It's just going to get worse and worse until DC fanboys are basically forced to stop saying silly stuff.

Remember the first ever JL movie just flopped. Less then two months ago EVERYONE would have argued that was impossible. Look where we are now. That was a foreshadowing.

I think Marvel and DC will both have a better time at selling their female characters in tv and movies because there are a lot more female writers in those mediums as opposed to comic books...

X-gals say hi and dismiss this thread.

Do you consider this a smart decision? I honeslty don't see the point of this character.

I guess this all comes down to what qualities you look for in these female characters. Or any character for that matter.

Though that said, I dont think its fair to judge them based on the way they have been currently written since lets face it, a lot of them have faced some massive character derailment at the hands of writers who dont know what they are doing. Carol Danvers is the poster child of this. Mockingbird counts too, as far as her solo was concerned.

@oldboy93: I don't see what's wrong with it. She's not replacing Karen just using her the name Power-Girl. I would see if it was a problem if she started to pop up in Superman's mythos more frequently but she doesn't. She's just using her name. I get what you mean but sharing mantle names isn't something new for DC

I also think DC has better females but I also love the X-ladies who can give some of DC females a competition. Well, the main ones personally.

@generalbeastgod: What's with people and always bringing up the "general audience" argument? Is comparing movies the only justification you can bring to an argument?

Yeah but adding a bland and forgettable character in DC universe is not the right way to promote diversity IMO. Nobody cares about this Power-Girl.

Yeah Wonder Woman is quite a sexist character

She's just another failed attempt to appeal a new kind of audience (black girls). Problem is that nobody will ever be interested in this character, she's no iconic, even her name is not original. She just need to be there to show DC care for the non white male audience, that's all. This "diversity" thing they're doing to sell more comics isn't genuine but even worse, it's barely even well done. They should create a good character first and then decide if he\she's white, black, asian or latino\a.

Storm, Blade, Black Panther, Vixen, Static, Amanda Waller, Black Manta, Luke Cage etc etc are popular because they're original and interesting characters. They're not forgetable superpowered people with a different skin colour. Their personalities, their abilities, their stories and backgrounds are what make them interesting to readers.

I'm sick of DC and Marvel laziness, "Hey guys, we've created a new boring character with no personality or unique abilities, but you know what? he\she's black, asian, latino\a, gay, transexual etc etc, so you have to support it" GTFOH

@oldboy93:

"I'm sick of DC and Marvel laziness, "Hey guys, we've created a new boring character with no personality or unique abilities, but you know what? he\she's black, asian, latino\a, gay, transexual etc etc, so you have to support it" GTFOH"

Well shit. I actually agree with this.

You're 100% right, but let's be honest: how many black girls (or black people in general) will buy a DC comic-book because of this character?

@adamtrmm: Jean Grey, kitty pride and storm are terrible characters compared to DC women

@kingnemo:

At least they all are original and distinct and not some male derivative № gazillion.

DC has many female characters who are not "some male derivative № gazillion"

Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Black Canary, Huntress, Mera, Amanda Waller, Poison Ivy, Starfire, Raven, Big Barda, Zatanna, Cheshire, Katana, Vixen, Killer Frost, Maxima, Grace Choi, Cheerah, Circe...seriously, I can do this all day.

Besides, derivative female characters like Supergirl, Batgirl, Harley Quinn and Hawkgirl are waaaaaay more interesting and popular than your beloved X-Girls.

Stop being in denial, DC has the best female characters, end of the story.

I'm assumming this was directed at me because of the quote, even though you didn't @ me. Fanboy? I can honestly say, that one's new. Especially since I've been not so low key ragging on the DCEU for most of 2017 lol. I'm a MCU fan, but I'm an objective fan first and foremost. Is Iron Man more popular than Superman? As of 2017 he's vastly more popular to the general audiance and it's not even close, same with Cap. And this pleases me as i have stated numerous times on here that Cap is my all time favorite superhero.

Now here's were the objectivity kicks in, something fans can have, but fanboys like you can't. While Iron Man and Cap are currently more popular, they are no where near as iconic. When people think of the term superhero, the first thought that most of them will have is Superman. Kids living in huts in an African village and old folks in nursing homes all have one thing in common; they know who superman is. Even if they have never picked up a single comic, they know who he is. That 'S' on his chest is one of the most recognizable symbols in the world, along with the bat on Batman's chest. Same with Wonder Woman; she is the first hero that comes to mind when people think of female superheroes.

The only marvel character that comes close to not only that world wide recognition but being a staple in comic book history is Spiderman. Popularity does not equal to being iconic. They are two very different categories. Here are other examples; Migos are popular, Jay Z is iconic. Kyrie Irving is popular. Michael Jordan is iconic. Deku of My Hero Academia is popular. Goku is iconic. As a marvel fan, even I recognize there are different levels to these type of rankings. Plus lets not forget that the last two solo Batman films grossed over a billion each and a solo Wonder woman film grossed over 800 million. Superman is only weak link of the trinity at the moment.

As a black person I agree 100%. I can see right through it. Its fake... Black readers wanted Static, Black Panther, Vixen, John Stewart, Storm, Blue Marvel, Blade and Monica NOT a black version of Spider-Man, Powergirl, Wally West, Iron Man, etc...

I addressed all that here.

@thatduderox: but being well known is totally overhyped by DC fanboys. It means shit. The whole trinity is completely overrated. Anything with that Marvel label on it is going to blow them away in the end.

Superman is performing accurately. Small potatoes. Just getting a sequel will be a struggle. Batman us NOT a billion dollar franchise. Ledgers death during his prime is why that trilogy reached a billion. It's not accurate representation of what Batman is capable of. Neither is WW. WB already knew it and JL was going to bomb. Them jokers had the biggest media blitz I've ever seen. WW was all hype.

Just look at what you're saying. WW and Batman are these huge money makers, right? But a film with all of them plus others just flopped. JL bombed and neither WW nor Bayman could save it. Whatever good will the TDK series gave Batman is gone. So is the WW hype train. WW2 will make less than the first regardless if quality.

And I know this is the DCCU but it's still represents and reflects on this characters.

This reminds me I a discussion I had with a friend recently. I've yet to see the CW Supergirl show yet, simply because I've just never cared that much about Supergirl, but my friend has and says for the most part it's fine, but he does admit he's annoyed that they made Jimmy Olsen black in the show, even though he's white in the comics. It doesn't break the show or even the character for him, he just says it feels a little odd and forced.

Afterwards, when I looked online, as far as I can tell, John Henry Irons AKA Steel, a big mainstay character in the Superman mythos who is a black man, has not made an appearance or even been mentioned yet in the show. And I think that sums up the problem some people have with this push. Not that it's a diversity push but rather a false diversity push. Instead of actually promoting the diverse characters the company already has, they just slap the name of a well-known character on someone new or change the original character themselves and call it diversity.

@aros001:

I like the term "false diversity" push. And yeah Jimmy Olson did not need to be Black. I agree it does not break the show but they could have introduced Steel which would have been BETTER than a Black Olson. These companies gotta understand that us minorities DO want diversity BUT we don't mind relating to white characters because we ALWAYS saw those characters as WHITE.

I enjoy DCs roster and think "Bombshells", "Ame-Comi", "Gotham City Garage", and "Bishoujo" lines were great ways to showcase their female roster.

Marvel has a great roster, but I don't think they've showcased them in recent years.

@generalbeastgod: Dude. You're making me defend the DCEU. I told you I'm a MCU fan. You have no idea how much this s*** irritates me to my core, but I'll play devil's advocate.

1. You can't say Batman isn't a billion dollar franchise, when his two last solo movies grossed over 1 billion each. That's just ignoring figures at that point. Now we may have a difference of opinions, but numbers don't lie. Because if you want to keep it 100, the only other superhero who could replicate those numbers by themselves is Ironman. Captain America Civil War was essentially Avengers 2.5, so as much as i like Cap, I don't think he can replicate those numbers with a movie staring just him.

2. far as Justice League's failure goes, many analyst have credited the reception of BvS to that. Justice League came across as a sequel to a movie that many people did not like. then when factor in the bts drama, this movie was destined to fail. You had Zack being at odds with the executives over the tone and direction of the film, then you had him step away after the tragic passing of his daughter. Whedon came in to not only finish but shave off an hour and a half of footage, and to do so in six months. Then it came out that the reason they were pushing for a 2017 release, even though they clearly weren't ready was because it effected the bonuses of WB execs. Then to top it all off, Ben said a week before the movie was set to premiere that he was looking for a graceful exit out of the role of batman. And all of this was made public. Justice League was DoA. Another thing you have to take into consideration is that BvS had a 160+ million dollar opening weekend. It was on its way to make the billion dollar club, but the movie being god awful and bad word of mouth made that come to a screeching halt.

3. Now to the point of Wonder Woman. I don't really have to say much. Again, numbers speak for themselves and they do not lie. Wonder Woman grossed over 800 million. She is by far the only thing keeping the DCEU afloat at the moment. Seriously, her success is likely the only reason they haven't done a hard reboot of the entire universe. Justice League's failing had little to do with her. As I stated previously, there was a lot of negative energy surrounding that film well before its release.

She's not even touching Supergirl or Harley let alone WW. lol... Carol is not a counter to WW. Once the WW film became a hit it was over before it started.

Lmao at Carol being a counter to WW, Marvel tried to force it and it failed. The only who are counters to DC girls are X-girls.

And when you bring up Marvel making her look like a man you get SJW gang piling on you...

Wonder Woman is the only character that is a truly both iconic and independent. That's an undeniable fact. Others don't even come near. That's as far as your extolled popularity goes. "Malemantle"girls bore the crap out of me, sorry. Harley is another Deadpool whose popularity is a mystery to me. Mera is basically Aquawoman, please. Maxima... a readheaded telepathic goddes with an obsession for green costumes *coughcertainxgalripoffcough*. Argument can be made for Raven being same gal's ripoff as well.

Stop being in denial, DC has the best female characters, end of the story.

This an extremely eloquent and climactic resolution to our discussion that made me revision the error of my ways, and accept defeat.

Nah just making fun of this "in depth argument".

Honestly, DC severely lacks independent female characters. Most are just carbon copies of male ones. Or were created to be slabs of meat to look at/love interests

However Marvel doesn't push it's female heroes in the manner in which they should. But originals like Storm, Rogue and Jean are better than clones like Supergirl, Batgirl, Zatanna and Powergirl , better than characters made purely to be love interests like Harley Quinn, and Catwoman.

I'd honestly say Marvel is far better in this regard.

SO true, and Carol got ruined by BENDIS during CWII, after that her situation was becoming worse and worse.

No wonder people her Carl Manvers nowdays. :D

True, even though the X-girls are not bad at all.

People really need to understand the concept of 'opinions'.

@cosmogod: Nope. Marvel doesn't try to put out good animated movies the same way dc churns out new Batman films every year

@lord_spectrum: Elektra , She Hulk, Kamala , sue , Shuri, etc.

Batman popularity came from superior writing. You want to term it as churn out,fine; contrary I would say DC is just feeding to demand. Can't say same thing about marvel as far as animated movies concerned .

@cosmogod: Batman and superman were around before marvel even existed

Yeah, Marvel is not showing enough boobs and legs anymore. Carol's new suit sucks but her ass and legs used to be great but we can't see them anymore. I just want to see Harley, Zatanna (love the legs but boobs are great as well), Ivy, Supergirl, Power Girl, Starfire, Canary (love the fishnets) and of course Wonder Woman whose costume is a personal favorite of mine. Picture in the OP is stunning and shows what ALL comic book fans want from female heroes. Ask any female and she would agree.

Marvel always tries to push an agenda, why don't they just show simply sexy characters being chill about stuff? Who wants to see not sexy women arguing about stuff? The answer is no one. Who wants to see sexy ass characters who are cool, chill, nice and therefore can find their own man blow stuff up with their powers while also displaying stunning bodies? The answer is everyone.

True but some opinions are more popular than others.

DC female characters have a greater presence within the public mind set. I've mentioned before than when it comes to Halloween DC female characters dominate, Catwoman, WW, Harley, Poison Ivy

If we are sticking with facts then Marvel sidelined their most popular female characters for a decade because they didn't have the merchandising rights to the X-Men.