Why Goku is not universal/Debunking universal Goku (resurrection)

Ok firstly lets establish why Goku is considered universal level

During Goku's fight with Beerus they were punching each other so hard it was capable of producing shockwaves that were stated to be capable of destroying the universe:

The reason people strongly believe in this is because its backed by the Narrator for one:

And its even backed up by Whis:

Now lets establish something

Goku isn't universal

1. Firstly because the shockwaves were going to destroy the universe because they got stronger the further they went:

This is important because number 1 the sacred world of the kais was not destroy by the shockwaves, which is outside the DB macrocosm:

Which makes old kai's statement unreliable in regards to the shockwaves being universal, if his statement was true then why would it not destroy the world of the kais, which is the furthest you can get?

2. The Narrator also says Beerus was going full power

When we know is not true, which shows that the narrator is not reliable and is mostly just repeating statements that other characters (who are unreliable) have said and is meant to not spoil stuff to the audience

But lets accept the fist clash is universal, lets say it is

Old Kai stated Beerus, Goku and everyone which includes Whis would die from the shockwaves

Now we have established none of the cast on DBS can stop power capable of destroying the universe, this is backed by this person who is a staff in DB:

Who states only Zeno is capable of destroying the universe, we also have to take into account that old kai himself wasn't sure if it would destroy the universe:

He uses the words "may" or "maybe", implying that he could be wrong, now all this proves Goku is not universal, but the shockwaves themselves may have been, here is more info on why Goku is not universal,

Zamasu was fusing with the universe only:

Yet Goku couldn't destroy him with pure DC.

Zamasu only stated he was going to wipe out the galaxy when he was in his normal state:

Why would a universal level being need his full power just to wipe out a galaxy with pure DC?

Why would a stronger character like Moro with all his energy swollen aka no ki control involved?

Why would a character that is way stronger be only be capable of wiping out the galaxy? Many say this is a mistranslation but even then a couple galaxies?

Anyways all of this contradicts universal level Goku, Goku is not universal level by pure DC, anything that mentions "power capable of destroying the universe" in BOG is referring to the shockwaves, the shockwaves don't scale to their AP as even stronger characters have only shown to be galaxy level and the staff himself debunks that notion.

Hell even Whis himself (Who is leagues stronger than Goku and Beerus) confirms he can't stop the universal level shockwaves, and Old Kai himself stating Beerus and everyone (which includes Whis) would die from the universal level shockwave.

@kilgpmktra:

Sighs.....here we go again

During Goku's fight with Beerus they were punching each other so hard it was capable of producing shockwaves that were stated to be capable of destroying the universe:

Yeah that's right .

Now lets establish something

Goku isn't universal

Well I don't see why not , because all god of destructions are Universal , even weaker ends like Champa

1. Firstly because the shockwaves were going to destroy the universe because they got stronger the further they went:

This is important because number 1 the sacred world of the kais was not destroy by the shockwaves, which is outside the DB macrocosm

Huh ?

Kaioshin realm is 1/10 of the size of the Universe 7 and is completely unreachable except for the Kais and people allowed to enter it , so the idea of it being treated as just some random planet not being busted is wrong

Beerus nullified the energy that was gonna end The world anyway and Elder kai didn't say the universe would be anhilated in a second , but eventually as their fight progresses .

When we know is not true, which shows that the narrator is not reliable and is mostly just repeating statements that other characters (who are unreliable) have said and is meant to not spoil stuff to the audience

Look man , just because there are one hyberbole here and there , doesn't mean it's not reliable and should not be used at all , but ok then

Every medium have some statements that are later contradicted and are unreliable , doesn't mean they lose all their credibility as it could simply be judged case per case .

But lets accept the fist clash is universal, lets say it is

Old Kai stated Beerus, Goku and everyone which includes Whis would die from the shockwaves

While this statement is legit and I would give you credit for using this , you completely forgot to mention facts like Beerus was not using his full power , and by scaling till now , probably a tiny fraction of his , supreme kai have no idea how powerful Beerus truly is

As shown by this statement , this guy before BOG was under the delusion that Buu is stronger then Beerus

Which is obviously contradicted by a straight out fight these two had

He is even stated > SSJ Vegito to the point they would need to fuse twice

And a casual SSJ Vegito bitchslaps and dogwalks the strongest version of Buu there is .

So yeah , while I could accept sub Universal Durability for SSG BOG Goku , Beerus is a completely different case as elder kai is rather illiterate in regards to his power and Beerus was HEAVILY supressed In BOG .

Now we have established none of the cast on DBS can stop power capable of destroying the universe,

Yeah....sure

this is backed by this person who is a staff in DB:

Can you explain his position in Toei Entertainments ? Because if not , it would be meme material like Star wars stuntman making statements of TPM Qui gonna being > ROTJ Darth Vader

And he himself said it's just a personal opinion , and there are others who can destroy universe , don't see how you are relying on this

Yet Goku couldn't destroy him with pure DC.

Do you like.....watch the anime ?

They literally tried...like.....adding their powers.....via a final flash and Kamehameha combo.....and got no sold........

Zamasu only stated he was going to wipe out the galaxy when he was in his normal state:

Why would a universal level being need his full power just to wipe out a galaxy with pure DC?

Why would a character that is way stronger be only be capable of wiping out the galaxy? Many say this is a mistranslation but even then a couple galaxies?

Sorry but you can't scale from self destruction

Vegeta's self destruct just caused a Tiny crator level of DC lol

Even though this Vegeta scales Far above feats like this .

Anyways all of this contradicts universal level Goku,

Yeaaaaah , sure

Goku is not universal level by pure DC, anything that mentions "power capable of destroying the universe" in BOG is referring to the shockwaves, the shockwaves don't scale to their AP as even stronger characters have only shown to be galaxy level and the staff himself debunks that notion.

So basically the upper scan is meaningless while one scan that doesn't state that's where Goku Black's power caps out , and even in that statement , he is talking in context of him being done with the universe , not the galaxy , I guess cherry picking is popular nowdays lol

Hell even Whis himself (Who is leagues stronger than Goku and Beerus) confirms he can't stop the universal level shockwaves, and Old Kai himself stating Beerus and everyone (which includes Whis) would die from the universal level shockwave.

See how Whis was the name not mentioned ? He can't die without existence erasure anyway

Too bad it’s confirmed in the manga he’s immortal :€

Wtf did i just read lol

TLDR: Legit and No Cap on a stack

@nighstar666: damn gottem

so DB is all just hyperbolic character statements and no feats that's sad

Yeah , anything ever stated in DB is Hyberbolic because characters are unreliable , narrative is unreliable , feats are unreliable and even the narrator is unreliable .

another day and another meme debunk thread being debunked within no time at all

didn't bring my big movie popcorn with me so I'll settle with mocha cappuccino

Only DBZ fans think that goku is universal.

DBS fans think Goku is universal tho.

DBZ Buuhan could do this and Base Goku its above Buuhan.

So many lowballers jeez.

Good points

lmao

@smokernaruto said:

DBZ Buuhan could do this and Base Goku its above Buuhan.

So many lowballers jeez.

When Buuhan screamed the dimensions started collapsing and the resulting domino effect would fuck up the universe, that's not universal. He didn't destroy the universe on his own power.

@solaris6: it literally saying. This space would cover the living world and wipe out the universe how wipe out the universe is not universal?

Because it wasn't him that was going to collapse the universe, all he did was set off a chain reaction. That's as if i were to collapse a pillar from a house so the house gets destroyed, i didn't just destroy the house by myself, i merely started a chain reaction.

No one even made an attempt to counter me

and they never will

Actually thinking about it again. The "db universe is tiny compared to irl universe" claim seems questionable. It seems to be based on a scan where a galaxy is visible. But the claim seems to be based on a lot of assumptions with very little at best to back them up. The assumptions are. That the scan shows the entire db universe. Nothing shown confirms this. It could be only a portion of the universe and the galaxy could be closer to the viewer than anything else in frame. At least Nothing presented by op rules out this possibility. I agree. Beerus can bust a universe going all out. Or at absolute minimum ravage the entire universe as side effect going all out fighting another GoD like champa. But I also agree. Current canon Goku isn't a universe buster. Much less BoG Goku. Everything else I agree with. Dai kaio shin's planet isn't galaxy sized. Nobody in DB other than grand priest is multiversal. DB multiverse is only 12 universes currently. Universes in DB aren't multiverses. But I think beerus and whis are VERY strong.

These threads seem to be multiplying.

Goku is still universal, cope.

No idea he is or not, but he oneshots What If "Galaxy BuStInG" Ultron who projected his image in Watcher's realm covering this weird galaxy like archipelago

lol

Seems like you used arguments from IvIx's vid (which got debunked).

iirc, the writers confirmed that can only be so if goku becomes the hakaishin of U7, so basically >beerus. which unless they still believe that goku/jiren surpassed beerus. ain't happening tbh

Goku is more like quadrillions of times planetary nowhere near universal