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#1 Posted by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio
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#2 Edited by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio

Was Ultron really that bad of a villain? Or for that matter the rest of the MCU villain verse? I am even hearing negative reactions towards Thanos and hes barley had any screen time. I for one thought they were all pretty darn great. Now were they all time movie great? Probably not. But i still enjoyed them. I especially liked Obidia Stane and Red Skull. Though i did find Loki to be a tad-bit overrated.I have no problems with Ronan , Malekith, and Ultron. I mention those three specifically because those are the ones i hear the most crap about and the others with the exception of Loki aren't held in much higher regard.. I mean these are comic book villains. So off course there going to come across a bit cartoony. I mean no one should be expecting Shakespearean level villainy. I mean i hope no ones comparing them to Nolans Bat universe, which is very much depicted as being just quite the opposite of the MCU. And as such isnt even comparable to the likes of the MCU. This makes me think of what Ozymandias said, when he referred to himself as very much not being a comic book villain.These characters are not suppose to be overly complex, they were never meant to be. I know for mass audiences who had never read the comics or heard of these characters otherwise, embracing these characters is a bit hard and somewhat of a foreign concept. But hay they somehow manged to fall in love with Iron man, Thor, Cap and the others. Characterization aside Those characters especially the likes of Thor, Iron-man And Hulk are very cartoony. A norse god with a magic hammer capable of summoning extremely powerful gust of wind and a whole host of other extraordinary feats, A giant green monster who gets stronger the madder he gets, A genius billionaire with a suit of armor capable of performing a whole assortment fantastical feats. I mean when you have heroes with abilities like that your going to need villains with equal or even greater degrees of powers to match the physicality of these heroes. Now does that mean sacrifice characterization for physicality? By no means. But dont be surprised when the comic villain starts behaving very much like a comic book villain when depicted onscreen. I,m just saying no one should be expecting very much in terms of characterization from these villains. Now im not saying marvel dosent have a bunch of complex multi layered villains to work with for their MCU, they most certainly do. But even their greatest villains are still very much comic book villains with comic book level schemes. I know there have been a whole bunch of stories that have explored and depicted these characters in a very realistic way, but the fact of the matter is these are still comic book characters with very fictitious abilities. I hope people understand this by the time the Avengers Infinity wars movies come out, which is about as cartoony of a story line you can get in comics.Anyway what do you guys think.

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#3 Posted by DBVSE7 (8197 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope, just something about the MCU for people to complain about.

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#4 Posted by reaverlation (25879 posts) - - Show Bio

Fassbender was a better villain than any MCU villain

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#5 Edited by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: He wasnt better just much more compelling. If were talking about villainy in its classic and most integral definition, which is to antagonize the protagonist. Then now, thats hardly the case there were villans in the MCU that did this much better then he did. Such as Ultron. But in terms of compelling characterization yea he was better then most.

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#6 Edited by SaintWildcard (21841 posts) - - Show Bio

My problem is, when the Disney Princess movies take their villains more seriously than a Marvel movie... you got a problem. Compare how Gaston went out to Ronan. From what I hear, Lex is gonna be a highly complex villain and not cartoony. While I have a problem with the physicality of the actor, I'm sure he's gonna knock it out of the park even with that handicap.

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#7 Posted by reaverlation (25879 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: He wasnt better just much more compelling. If were talking about villainy in its classic definition, which is to antagonize the protagonist. Then now, thats hardly the case there were villans in the MCU that did this much better then he did. Such as Ultron. But in terms of compelling characterization yea he was better then most.

Zola is the best villain of the MCU.Saw nothing from Ultron that tops Magneto as a villain

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#8 Posted by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by SaintWildcard (21841 posts) - - Show Bio

@jumpstart55 said:

@reaverlation: He wasnt better just much more compelling. If were talking about villainy in its classic definition, which is to antagonize the protagonist. Then now, thats hardly the case there were villans in the MCU that did this much better then he did. Such as Ultron. But in terms of compelling characterization yea he was better then most.

Zola is the best villain of the MCU.Saw nothing from Ultron that tops Magneto as a villain

I don't really count the X-Men villains as MCU villains. And for the most part, the Fox villains hit it out of the park.

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#10 Posted by reaverlation (25879 posts) - - Show Bio

Armin Zola?

@reaverlation said:
@jumpstart55 said:

@reaverlation: He wasnt better just much more compelling. If were talking about villainy in its classic definition, which is to antagonize the protagonist. Then now, thats hardly the case there were villans in the MCU that did this much better then he did. Such as Ultron. But in terms of compelling characterization yea he was better then most.

Zola is the best villain of the MCU.Saw nothing from Ultron that tops Magneto as a villain

I don't really count the X-Men villains as MCU villains. And for the most part, the Fox villains hit it out of the park.

Never said Magneto/Fassbender was a MCU villain.Just that Fassbender was way, way better than Ultron.

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#11 Posted by TheBlueAngel93 (21064 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like Whiplash was underused. Despite the flaws in Iron Man 2, I feel that if they had kept him alive he could have developed into a more dangerous villain.

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#12 Posted by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: Oh that scientist from the first cap film. Really?

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#13 Posted by reaverlation (25879 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: Oh yea i totally forgot he was in that. Yea i,m definitely going to watch again.

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#15 Posted by black_wreath (13557 posts) - - Show Bio

People see how they treat their villains as the MCU's biggest weakness, you expect comic book fans to not complain?

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#16 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

who does that?

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#17 Edited by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_wreath: Yes but the portrayals of the villains have been very true to the comics? So whats your point exactly.

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#18 Posted by black_wreath (13557 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_wreath: Yes but the portrayals of the villains have been very true to the comics? So whats your point exactly.

This is not a fanbase known for positivity, that is "everyone gives the MCU villains such a hard time". They see a flaw, they pounce.

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#19 Posted by kfabz-23 (6135 posts) - - Show Bio

Stane - Very Good villain but hardly acknowledged.

Abomination - Decent, I do want to see him again.

Whiplash - oh boy, he was just awful.

Justin Hammer - I didn't mind him at all.

Loki - very good arguably the best MCU villain.

Destroyer - -_-

Red Skull - meh generic villain.

Chitauri army - they were awful

Mandarin - did not like him

Malekith - Malekith was basically a Saturday cartoon villain. The worst.

Kurse - he was a good threat, but he was very boring.

Winter Soldier - he was badass, but he didn't do much so he loses points for me.

Pierce - very good he is also underrated.

Ronan - the dude sucked hard

Von Strucker - looool

Ultron - did not feel like Ultron at all

Kingpin - one of the best villains adapted from a comic book period.

Now let's compare MCU consistency with other studios.

Ra's Al Ghul - very good, he tested Batman very well and it wasn't just hard for Batman because he was a newbie, but because he was also his mentor.

Scarecrow - Arkham Knight aside Nolan's Scarecrow is one of the best versions of the character.

Sabertooth - Although the X-Men was a pretty bad movie, Sabertooth wasn't.

Barakapool - Just wtf

Joker - do I even need to explain why he is the best villain out of everyone listed.

Sinestro - he was the best thing about the GL movie, but nothing special.

Hammond - god he sucked

Parrallax - -_-

Sebastian Stan - Very good, it's a shame his underrated.

Bane - dude was just too awesome

Talia - meh

Lizard - didn't see him as villain, but yeah his was quite good.

Sentinels - best fodder I've ever seen.

Magneto - 2nd only to Joker

Zod - really good.

Faora - Awesome

Electro - lame he was so annoying

Green Goblin - was dope for the amount of screen time he got.

Three different studios are putting out much better villains than the MCU. MCU need to step up their game.

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#20 Edited by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

The issue for the villains is that they end up the shade of the heroes various antics, which often makes the heroes and villains appear to be living in separate movies. Worst example of this is GotG vs Ronan. And maybe Thor/Loki vs Malekith.

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#21 Edited by MrHamWallet (3194 posts) - - Show Bio

People just like to find faults. I thought Loki was done really well, I really liked Ultron just thought he needed to be more powerful/stronger than all the avengers.

Malekith was OK, as was Kurse.

The Destroyer, if you count that, was pretty cool.

Obadiah Stane was good, Whiplash and Mandarin/Aldrich were pretty shit.

Ronan was pretty shitty too.

Red Skull was good, Winter Soldier was great.

Abomination was OK...good for the Hulk to fight at least.

Kingpin was incredible.

Thanos hasn't been too intimidating so far, I know he hasn't been in it much but he could be made more of. Hopefully they get him right when he gets involved.

But compare them to DC...

Zod and Co were poor other than fighting.

Bane was pretty good, Talia...eh.

Ra's was done really well imo as was scarecrow.

Joker...do I really need to say? The best villain in anything ever, the third film suffered without him.

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#22 Posted by joshmightbe (27562 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always found the complaints about Red Skull in the MCU to be a bit weird. People seem upset that he was just pure evil but if you think about it he always has been just pure evil. He was originally designed as anti-German war propaganda and has barely ever had any instance when he seemed in any way sypathetic.

The thing I always liked about the Red Skull's character was that he was always the one guy you never had to question, he walks in and you know bad s**t is about to happen.

With most other villains they always have something that might make you question wheather the hero is right so its nice to have 1 just pure bastard.

I'm not saying I'd like all villains to be this way but it actually makes him stand out more among the moral grey area Marvel has become.

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#23 Posted by lettsplay10 (20589 posts) - - Show Bio

@kfabz-23 said:

Stane - Very Good villain but hardly acknowledged.

Abomination - Decent, I do want to see him again.

Whiplash - oh boy, he was just awful.

Justin Hammer - I didn't mind him at all.

Loki - very good arguably the best MCU villain.

Destroyer - -_-

Red Skull - meh generic villain.

Chitauri army - they were awful

Mandarin - did not like him

Malekith - Malekith was basically a Saturday cartoon villain. The worst.

Kurse - he was a good threat, but he was very boring.

Winter Soldier - he was badass, but he didn't do much so he loses points for me.

Pierce - very good he is also underrated.

Ronan - the dude sucked hard

Von Strucker - looool

Ultron - did not feel like Ultron at all

Kingpin - one of the best villains adapted from a comic book period.

Now let's compare MCU consistency with other studios.

Ra's Al Ghul - very good, he tested Batman very well and it wasn't just hard for Batman because he was a newbie, but because he was also his mentor.

Scarecrow - Arkham Knight aside Nolan's Scarecrow is one of the best versions of the character.

Sabertooth - Although the X-Men was a pretty bad movie, Sabertooth wasn't.

Barakapool - Just wtf

Joker - do I even need to explain why he is the best villain out of everyone listed.

Sinestro - he was the best thing about the GL movie, but nothing special.

Hammond - god he sucked

Parrallax - -_-

Sebastian Stan - Very good, it's a shame his underrated.

Bane - dude was just too awesome

Talia - meh

Lizard - didn't see him as villain, but yeah his was quite good.

Sentinels - best fodder I've ever seen.

Magneto - 2nd only to Joker

Zod - really good.

Faora - Awesome

Electro - lame he was so annoying

Green Goblin - was dope for the amount of screen time he got.

Three different studios are putting out much better villains than the MCU. MCU need to step up their game.

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#24 Posted by Claymore1998 (16541 posts) - - Show Bio

Very nice write up there friend.

I might not really agree with it but it was still very well written.

Keep up the good work ^_^

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#25 Posted by those_eyes (17291 posts) - - Show Bio

Best villian was the roided dogs from the hulk movie.

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#26 Posted by midnightdragon18 (9869 posts) - - Show Bio

Omelette jokes and dance offs

/Thread

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#27 Posted by EyeDCyou (7512 posts) - - Show Bio

Cuz they suck

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#28 Edited by Leatherface003 (1604 posts) - - Show Bio

to me villain is a villain doesn't matter if it is a CB villain or just generic villain. Villain has to do one thing and one thing only represent the exact oposite of heroes..the more awesome the villain is the more interesting the movie becomes specially comic book which people actually laugh and make fun of but they are a legitimate part of English Literature. The most important part of a villain is his performance and in that performance if he can not establish himself or convince the audience that he is an actual threat then he failed in his job. Vader is a great example you can't even see his face but dude is a terrifying,Ozymandias an awesome villain...MCU villain doesn't show that level of commitment as if they are there to just say bad one liners and make jokes make audience laugh..that's not a villains job...

And that's why people bash MCU villains...

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#29 Posted by dan12456 (3006 posts) - - Show Bio

to me villain is a villain doesn't matter if it is a CB villain or just generic villain. Villain has to do one thing and one thing only represent the exact oposite of heroes..the more awesome the villain is the more interesting the movie becomes specially comic book which people actually laugh and make fun of but they are a legitimate part of English Literature. The most important part of a villain is his performance and in that performance if he can not establish himself or convince the audience that he is an actual threat then he failed in his job. Vader is a great example you can't even see his face but dude is a terrifying,Ozymandias an awesome villain...MCU villain doesn't show that level of commitment as if they are there to just say bad one liners and make jokes make audience laugh..that's not a villains job...

And that's why people bash MCU villains...

This

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#30 Posted by Cpt_FacePuncher (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

They were all jokes. I can't think of a single one who seemed complex in any way at all. They all represented a stereotype, and usually just ended up being fodder for the hero. Ultron was the most disappointing, right up there with the Mandarin. The best MCU villain was probably Winter Soldier, but even then he was pretty stereotypical.

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#31 Posted by StormShadow_X (16766 posts) - - Show Bio

Fassbender was a better villain than any MCU villain

This. The Mcu VIllains always feel pretty lame. They either are a joke(Ultron) or are beaten as if they were a joke taking away all the cred (Loki Avengers 1).

Stane was ok. Nothing special but was good. Loki in Thor 1 was amazing and way better then his Avengers portrayal, The main bad guy from Winter solider was also pretty good. I also don't get why people always say like Winter Soldier was the big villain of the movie where he wasn't. Even worse when he gets the best villain of the year award when he wasn't even the true villain of the movie.

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#32 Posted by JediXMan (42704 posts) - - Show Bio

to me villain is a villain doesn't matter if it is a CB villain or just generic villain. Villain has to do one thing and one thing only represent the exact oposite of heroes..the more awesome the villain is the more interesting the movie becomes specially comic book which people actually laugh and make fun of but they are a legitimate part of English Literature. The most important part of a villain is his performance and in that performance if he can not establish himself or convince the audience that he is an actual threat then he failed in his job. Vader is a great example you can't even see his face but dude is a terrifying,Ozymandias an awesome villain...MCU villain doesn't show that level of commitment as if they are there to just say bad one liners and make jokes make audience laugh..that's not a villains job...

And that's why people bash MCU villains...

Well said.

I'd actually say that Obediah was a decent villain - possible the best MCU villain. He was a threat, he didn't really crack jokes, and he was the antithesis of Tony's new-found ethics. Winter Soldier was good, too, because he was a threat on an emotional level to our protagonist: how can he fight his best friend? The villain should be superior or equal to the hero on a physical level, but pose a moral dilemma.

The others are either purely "villains" for the sake of being a villain without being much of a character (Red Skull, Malekith, Ronan, Abomination) or they have character, but are not shown to be an actual threat (Ultron, Loki, etc.).

Villains should not outright lose a battle before the final battle. That makes the villain look weak. How many times was Ultron's body destroyed? How many times was Loki defeated (once in Thor 1, faked being defeated by Cap/Tony, failed to convert Tony and got knocked down by Tony's suit, blown up by Hawkeye, and smashed by Hulk)? The hero should continually lose and overall adversity until finally being capable of defeating the villain - otherwise, the villain is not a real threat.

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#33 Posted by JediXMan (42704 posts) - - Show Bio
@kfabz-23 said:

Sinestro - he was the best thing about the GL movie, but nothing special.

Sinestro wasn't a villain in the GL movie. He was only hinted at being evil in the post-credit scene.

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#36 Edited by Leatherface003 (1604 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Thanks..you too.and those are the reason why I love those two particular movie...even Alexander Pierce was really good villain imo.

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#37 Edited by kfabz-23 (6135 posts) - - Show Bio

@WRGLfan2814: three bad villains? Understatement of the year. Mandarin, Malekith, Ultron, Whiplash, Ronan, Destroyer, Von Strucker. No one is looking for something to hate on MCU were all fans here, we just see a clear flaw in the MCU.

@jedixman: I know that but in general Sinestro is a villain so I put him in. Even without Sinestro listed there is still more consistency.

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#38 Posted by Leatherface003 (1604 posts) - - Show Bio

Its because their bias and just want something from the mcu to complain about. There's been three bad villains. Now compare that to all the villains DC has ruined over the years.

DC ruined villains really???which one I assume you are talking about Nolan's Joker...then Yes DC ruined villains..lol...

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#40 Edited by Leatherface003 (1604 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrglfan2814 said:

Its because their bias and just want something from the mcu to complain about. There's been three bad villains. Now compare that to all the villains DC has ruined over the years.

I assume all means all....

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#42 Posted by Leatherface003 (1604 posts) - - Show Bio

@leatherface003: I think your reading comprehension might be a little off. When I say all I'm not refering to all DC villains they've done. I'm referring to all DC villains they've ruined.

Such as..?

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#44 Posted by Leatherface003 (1604 posts) - - Show Bio

how is TDKR Bane not an improvement over old one?

and talk about villain ruined by Marvel

Venom,Doom,Galactus,Mandarin,Whiplash,Hammer,Strucker,Bullseye,Kingpin(movie),Deadpool(x men origins),Silver Samurai(Wolverine 2),Maphisto and many more..

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#45 Edited by Dextersinister (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrglfan2814 said:

@leatherface003: Bane (tdkr), Hector Hammond, parallax, Mr.freeze, poison ivy, bane again, penguin. They seem to be going in the wrong direction with their new villains as well.

You don't have a strong point when you need to pick films that are older than most viners or the fact a list that is mostly out of one film..

But most importantly no one said DC didn't have some mess ups, some are inevitable, that's not even the point, we are talking about the films Marvel have put out in succession over a much shorter period that hasn't produced any that actually seem like a tangible threat.

Loki is a good character and people like him because he is cool but he doesn't make for a credible villain in the same vein as Darth Vadar, Joker, Bane, Zod, Maleficent,etc, when you make the villain the butt of a string of put downs by the entire team it removes credibility, you don't humiliate villains and expect them to retain the dignity needed to be a villain.

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#46 Posted by skyroid (2646 posts) - - Show Bio

Kingpin was amazing.

Loki loved him.

Every other marvel villian sucked.

They better not ruin Thanos my favorite marvel Gilliam

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#47 Posted by Cloakx14 (9136 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto is the only one i like, All the other villains are terrible.

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#48 Posted by skyroid (2646 posts) - - Show Bio

@cloakx14: Lol magneto was made by Fox not mcu.

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#49 Posted by Cloakx14 (9136 posts) - - Show Bio

@skyroid: @skyroid:and that's why he is so great. not made by disney meant marvel.

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#50 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16364 posts) - - Show Bio

People (DC fanboys) just need something to complain about the MCU.