Why do people still try to argue that Hawkeye can beat Black Widow in H2H combat?

-In the first Avengers, Black Widow who was injured and not using any gear managed to beat a fully geared Hawkeye who was trying to kill her.

-In Civil War, she gained the upper hand against Clint before Wanda came and saved him.

-It was stated by the Russo Brothers that she was a better fighter than him.

-Yelena (who Natasha is more skilled than) was able to match Clint in H2H.

-And Clint himself told Yelena that Natasha was stronger.

So why do people still try to argue that Clint is more skilled than her and can beat her?

Who still talks about black widow?

@w3b: Plenty of people.

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I have no idea. Hawkeye is without a doubt the most unimpressive fighter in MCU

sexism

Hawkeye is actually ass though, have no idea why people would argue him beating her

People still argue this?

Hawkeye supremacy.

He clowned by Echo in h2h, no way he's beating Widow in actual h2h without any gear

Both Black Widow and Hawkeye are old news tbh….

@ashconwell: i wonder too, like, it's so obvious widow is better. But I've seen people people say they rank him higher because of his gear so maybe that's why 🤷.

Not me tho lol

No idea.

I don’t think anyone is? Hawkeye is fodder in the MCU.

In the first Avengers, Black Widow who was injured

There's no evidence she was injured during the Hawkeye fight

and not using any gear

Hawkeye didn't use any trick arrows either

managed to beat a fully geared Hawkeye who was trying to kill her.

Not really. The two were dead even, Widow even having to resort to a desperate bite to get out of a knife to her throat. Anyway, Widow only won due to Hawkeyes mind control coming loose, allowing her to K.O him. If not for that Hawkeye would have just tanked the blow as seen here

These same Chitauri were ragdolling Widow

So Widow only "won" due to a technicality and was barely scraping by on desperation tactics before that. Hardly clear cut.

In Civil War, she gained the upper hand against Clint before Wanda came and saved him.

Clint also gained the upper hand in that fight. The difference is he did it while the two were exchanging, while Widow needed a moments pause and for Hawkeye to banter in order to turn things around (just like she did in EG)

Also Wanda didn't save Clint

As you can clearly see Widows leg is fully extended and Clint is clear before Wanda intervenes. Also note Wanda states that Clint was pulling his punches. Despite having fought with Nat for nearly a year at this point as an Avenger she is not of the opinion they're both holding back.. Just Clint.

It was stated by the Russo Brothers that she was a better fighter than him.

I have no doubt Nat is more skilled. The issue here is how these two fight. Nat is an assassin, she'll always go for the oneshot, Clint is an Agent and is more of a brawler. He tank through things rather than weaving through them. An excellent contrast of this is their fights against super soldiers. Clint stands toe-toe with T'Challa for nearly a minute exchanging blows before going down. Nat with backup gets no diffed by Bucky once she's solo because attempts to one hit him, fails and gets ragdolled.

Yelena (who Natasha is more skilled than) was able to match Clint in H2H.

Gonna need hard proof of that. It's not the apartment fight as any edge there was purely environmental. And had similar performances against Hawkeye. With Clint getting the upper hand and potential kill shots while holding back (just like with Widow). Clint also beat down Echo (remember he couldn't tell the difference between Echo and Yelena when she attacked, making them proximate) further adding consistency to this.

And Clint himself told Yelena that Natasha was stronger.

I really don't think Clints overly emotional pleaded to his dead friends sister is that great of a gauge

So why do people still try to argue that Clint is more skilled than her and can beat her?

He's not more skilled. But he's a far more upfront brawler who is skilled enough to neutralize her oneshots and wear her down eventually. I don't think anyone is arguing Clint stomps her. But the reverse is also true, any fight between Clint and Nat is a coin flip nail biter. Both have plenty of win conditions.

I haven't see people argue this. Saying he's more powerful overall is reasonable though.

damn the disrespect for clint is crazy

I think Widow's above him in unarmed combat but they're close enough to a point where either could win in a fight.

I've literally never seen anyone try to argue this. Clint is one of the most underrated characters on CV if anything.

The two most unimpressive Avengers

I disagree.

@ashconwell:

Unimpressive may have been the wrong word. Really just mean the 2 I couldn’t care less about.

@greysentinel365 said:

In the first Avengers, Black Widow who was injured

There's no evidence she was injured during the Hawkeye fight

and not using any gear

Hawkeye didn't use any trick arrows either

managed to beat a fully geared Hawkeye who was trying to kill her.

Not really. The two were dead even, Widow even having to resort to a desperate bite to get out of a knife to her throat. Anyway, Widow only won due to Hawkeyes mind control coming loose, allowing her to K.O him. If not for that Hawkeye would have just tanked the blow as seen here

These same Chitauri were ragdolling Widow

So Widow only "won" due to a technicality and was barely scraping by on desperation tactics before that. Hardly clear cut.

In Civil War, she gained the upper hand against Clint before Wanda came and saved him.

Clint also gained the upper hand in that fight. The difference is he did it while the two were exchanging, while Widow needed a moments pause and for Hawkeye to banter in order to turn things around (just like she did in EG)

Also Wanda didn't save Clint

As you can clearly see Widows leg is fully extended and Clint is clear before Wanda intervenes. Also note Wanda states that Clint was pulling his punches. Despite having fought with Nat for nearly a year at this point as an Avenger she is not of the opinion they're both holding back.. Just Clint.

It was stated by the Russo Brothers that she was a better fighter than him.

I have no doubt Nat is more skilled. The issue here is how these two fight. Nat is an assassin, she'll always go for the oneshot, Clint is an Agent and is more of a brawler. He tank through things rather than weaving through them. An excellent contrast of this is their fights against super soldiers. Clint stands toe-toe with T'Challa for nearly a minute exchanging blows before going down. Nat with backup gets no diffed by Bucky once she's solo because attempts to one hit him, fails and gets ragdolled.

Yelena (who Natasha is more skilled than) was able to match Clint in H2H.

Gonna need hard proof of that. It's not the apartment fight as any edge there was purely environmental. And had similar performances against Hawkeye. With Clint getting the upper hand and potential kill shots while holding back (just like with Widow). Clint also beat down Echo (remember he couldn't tell the difference between Echo and Yelena when she attacked, making them proximate) further adding consistency to this.

And Clint himself told Yelena that Natasha was stronger.

I really don't think Clints overly emotional pleaded to his dead friends sister is that great of a gauge

So why do people still try to argue that Clint is more skilled than her and can beat her?

He's not more skilled. But he's a far more upfront brawler who is skilled enough to neutralize her oneshots and wear her down eventually. I don't think anyone is arguing Clint stomps her. But the reverse is also true, any fight between Clint and Nat is a coin flip nail biter. Both have plenty of win conditions.

You wrote all this just to still be wrong Nat wins Everytime

Clint was getting handled by echo 😭 the one that was having trouble with Kate and the one that didn’t even get time to engage yelena before she one shot her

and then in his ronin version he beat her high diff after being disarmed and everything then still got surprised and almost died to her lol

@greysentinel365: Natasha was still holding back (ugh i hate that overused statement... but it's true)

If they went to war then Clint would win. Sure she’s slightly more skilled… It doesn’t matter because his forte is sniping mofos and he will zone tf outta Nat like a spammer in a fighting game

@msheu: she always closes the distance and has actually dodged one of his arrows

Nope and lol at one from a Clint holding back

Hawkeye had the physical advantage and similar skill levels.

@msheu: when he shot that arrow at her in avengers 1 he was bloodlusted

Not that I’ve ever seen this argument, but he can’t.