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#1 Posted by Captainplanet (106 posts) - - Show Bio
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Why did Marvel who created iconic character like Spiderman, Hulk, Captain America failed to build a solo Female superhero in 80 years?

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#2 Posted by Paytience (4897 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainplanet: It isn't that they haven't tried. They just haven't been very successful. Also, because Wonder Women already existed. It's a niche that didn' tneed to be filled.

Marvel has always excelled more at team ups and sociopolitical stories rathe rthan the singular, all powerful pardigms.

Those team ups have given us women such as Jean Grey, and Storm, and Black Widow, etc.

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#3 Posted by Dogzee (528 posts) - - Show Bio

Because real comic book fans want powerful normal sexuality white men to be role models and females as powerful sidekicks

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#4 Posted by King-Ragnar (3846 posts) - - Show Bio

Because they don't need to

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#6 Edited by Captainplanet (106 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: You are saying 50% of population only need Wonder Woman unlike the other 50% who seem to have a lot of variety

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#7 Posted by PurplePerson (907 posts) - - Show Bio

The vast majority of great solo Marvel characters were created by Stan Lee who for one reason or another never really tried to make a comic focusing on a solo female. Maybe this was because he thought there wasn't much of a market for it or because he just didn't feel as comfortable writing female characters (even in team books he seems less interested in them).

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#8 Posted by Captainplanet (106 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by Paytience (4897 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by seastone98 (4668 posts) - - Show Bio

Because marvel can't keep politics (of any kind) out of they're female led stories unlike dc

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#11 Posted by Batvibe12 (5642 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel wasn't thinking at the time?

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#12 Posted by Aros001 (3644 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of Marvel's biggest female heroes are part of teams (Invisible Woman, Jean Grey, etc), so they are not very standalone. Considering that before they had to rely on the Avengers characters for the movies, the most popular Marvel titles were Spider-Man, X-Men, and Fantastic Four. So it could be Marvel had just a little more success with team books in general.

In some fairness, outside of Wonder Woman, DC doesn't exactly have a pantheon of popular female heroes whom stand completely on their own. Supergirl, Batgirl, and Hawkgirl have direct male counterparts (you could even make a similar argument with Zatanna and her father Zatara) and Starfire and Raven are primarily featured as part of the Teen Titans.

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#13 Posted by ITouchedTheBoat (3390 posts) - - Show Bio

They've tried in the past, but they become really unlikable, arrogant, or have stories that are entirely gender based with almost no solid story to back it up....and Captain Marvel is all three of these combined LOOOOL

Because they don't need to

why do you feel they didn't need to?

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#14 Posted by King-Ragnar (3846 posts) - - Show Bio

@itouchedtheboat: Because they already have more than enough successful charcters.

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#15 Posted by ITouchedTheBoat (3390 posts) - - Show Bio

@itouchedtheboat: Because they already have more than enough successful charcters.

you don't feel it was necessary to reach out to a smaller less represented demographic of comic book fans?...Especially after seeing the success of both Wonder Woman and Black Panther?

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#16 Edited by MajinBlackheart (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel Top 10 successful female lead runs (superhero genre)

  • Spider-Girl (1998) - 102 issues
  • Sensational She-Hulk (1989) - 60 issues
  • Spider-Woman (1978) - 50 issues
  • Ms. Marvel (2006) - 50 issues
  • Dazzler (1981) - 42 issues
  • Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (2015) - 40 issues **
  • She-Hulk (2005) - 38 issues
  • Ms. Marvel (2015) - 38 issues **
  • Elektra (2001) - 35 issues
  • Spider-Gwen (2015) - 35 issues

** Ongoing

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#17 Posted by Au_141 (1000 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean Marvel doesn’t anyone comparable to Wonder Woman they do have iconic characters like Storm and Jean Grey they just happen to be part of a team.

But also what Itouchedtheboatsaid. Being female/diverse is not enough to make good character.

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#18 Posted by King-Ragnar (3846 posts) - - Show Bio

@itouchedtheboat: Do you see that demographic complaining about this issue? Because I don't.

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#19 Posted by kgb725 (18748 posts) - - Show Bio

@seastone98: Marvel has always been about social justice

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#20 Posted by Supermanthor (18938 posts) - - Show Bio

Because they don't need to

this

Top 10 successful female lead runs (superhero genre)

  • Spider-Girl (1998) - 102 issues
  • Sensational She-Hulk (1989) - 60 issues
  • Spider-Woman (1978) - 50 issues
  • Ms. Marvel (2006) - 50 issues
  • Dazzler (1981) - 42 issues
  • Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (2015) - 40 issues **
  • She-Hulk (2005) - 38 issues
  • Ms. Marvel (2015) - 38 issues **
  • Elektra (2001) - 35 issues
  • Spider-Gwen (2015) - 35 issues

** Ongoing

all from marvel ?

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#21 Posted by foxerdes (10151 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think they tried to create one, and when they did, it was for political reasons, which usually turn the character into a failure.

Also, Diana has quite unique backtory and strong personality that cannot really be simplified to "strong woman." She has a lot of other elements contributing to her success.

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#22 Edited by Captainplanet (106 posts) - - Show Bio

@foxerdes: What unique backstory and personality?

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#23 Posted by ITouchedTheBoat (3390 posts) - - Show Bio

@itouchedtheboat: Do you see that demographic complaining about this issue? Because I don't.

I'm not trying to start an argument with you, I'm just asking you questions lol

no need to get defensive.

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#24 Posted by foxerdes (10151 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainplanet: Themyscira, Amazons and ties to Greek Gods are more unique and flavory than your typical backstory where a character just gets the powers in an experiment, space, mutation etc. I'm not saying they aren't interesting though. In my opinion, Diana does stand out though. As for personality - I meant her true warrior-like attitude (not just I am a female and I can do this approach). The acknowledgement of a worthy opponent, discipline and years of training combined with her origin result in that sweet warrior of old feeling. And that's on top of her compassion, wisdom and courage.

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#26 Posted by Geraldofvengerberg (628 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26904 posts) - - Show Bio

@foxerdes said:

I don't think they tried to create one, and when they did, it was for political reasons, which usually turn the character into a failure.

Also, Diana has quite unique backtory and strong personality that cannot really be simplified to "strong woman." She has a lot of other elements contributing to her success.

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#29 Posted by Captainplanet (106 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Edited by foxerdes (10151 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainplanet said:

What is her origin?

@geraldofvengerberg said:

Her origin?

Have I been using this word wrong my entire life or are you guys just asking why I find her origin interesting? I meant her origin story.

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#31 Posted by Michaelbn (2350 posts) - - Show Bio

It's Jean Grey but she got messed up a lot and they dumped her. Most of Marvel back in the '60s was the work was Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, and Don Heck work and they explained they've never had any interest for that kind of thing but maybe it was that they weren't comfortable with it.

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#32 Edited by seastone98 (4668 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: very true but what im saying is if they focus more on super heroics & less on social commentary with they're female leads they might have a successful heroine like Dianna

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#33 Edited by Nucleon (3185 posts) - - Show Bio

@foxerdes said:

@captainplanet: Themyscira, Amazons and ties to Greek Gods are more unique and flavory than your typical backstory where a character just gets the powers in an experiment, space, mutation etc. I'm not saying they aren't interesting though. In my opinion, Diana does stand out though. As for personality - I meant her true warrior-like attitude (not just I am a female and I can do this approach). The acknowledgement of a worthy opponent, discipline and years of training combined with her origin result in that sweet warrior of old feeling. And that's on top of her compassion, wisdom and courage.

The creators of super-heroes in the Golden age having a classical education, the greek/roman pantheon-based characters were many in that era. Shazam is a perfect exemple of such a contemporary case, but there were others, many of them forgotten (Timely had a Venus). Gods, half-gods and their champions were, after all, the first supers.

As for her personality, WW is victim from her serir's change of tone; Originally, she was a much more organic character, one that had fun breaking stereotypes, and who was at ease in a light-hearted, adult-winky environment. Nowadays, she's got more or less of a personality (and no sexuality) apart from a bland one "everybody can relate to", a bit like all DC characters.

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#34 Posted by TourneyMaster (1534 posts) - - Show Bio

Correct me if I am wrong doesnt Marvel have the first black female heroes and asian female hero over DC? Elektra, Misty Knight, and Ms Marvel (Monica)?

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#35 Posted by kgb725 (18748 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Edited by ANTHP2000 (26904 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

To trigger Anthp

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#38 Posted by foxerdes (10151 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon:

The creators of super-heroes in the Golden age having a classical education, the greek/roman pantheon-based characters were many in that era. Shazam is a perfect exemple of such a contemporary case, but there were others, many of them forgotten (Timely had a Venus). Gods, half-gods and their champions were, after all, the first supers.

Touché, although I wouldn't bring up Shazam as an example. His power might come from the Greek Gods, but his backstory and origin are rather novel. Then again, I'm hardly an expert when it comes to Golden Age. As for Diana's b-story, I would say that the way she was brought up and how she became the heroine she is nowadays are still strong elements of her character. Not to mention that roots of a character gain new life over the years.

As for her personality, WW is victim from her serir's change of tone; Originally, she was a much more organic character, one that had fun breaking stereotypes, and who was at ease in a light-hearted, adult-winky environment. Nowadays, she's got more or less of a personality (and no sexuality) apart from a bland one "everybody can relate to", a bit like all DC characters.

Certain disparity between personality seems to quite often show up over time, although once again - I'm hardly an expert. I'll trust your knowledge here.

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#39 Edited by seastone98 (4668 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: really? Ive read/seen the exact opposite from people who do care on CV youtube social media ect

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#40 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@king-ragnar said:

Because they don't need to

this

@majinblackheart said:

Top 10 successful female lead runs (superhero genre)

  • Spider-Girl (1998) - 102 issues
  • Sensational She-Hulk (1989) - 60 issues
  • Spider-Woman (1978) - 50 issues
  • Ms. Marvel (2006) - 50 issues
  • Dazzler (1981) - 42 issues
  • Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (2015) - 40 issues **
  • She-Hulk (2005) - 38 issues
  • Ms. Marvel (2015) - 38 issues **
  • Elektra (2001) - 35 issues
  • Spider-Gwen (2015) - 35 issues

** Ongoing

all from marvel ?

That's Marvel top ten yes. Not other companies since the subject was only related to Marvel.

Moderator
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#41 Posted by Helloman (29712 posts) - - Show Bio

Because money.

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#42 Posted by Supermanthor (18938 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26904 posts) - - Show Bio

Top 10 successful female lead runs (superhero genre)

  • Spider-Girl (1998) - 102 issues
  • Sensational She-Hulk (1989) - 60 issues
  • Spider-Woman (1978) - 50 issues
  • Ms. Marvel (2006) - 50 issues
  • Dazzler (1981) - 42 issues
  • Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (2015) - 40 issues **
  • She-Hulk (2005) - 38 issues
  • Ms. Marvel (2015) - 38 issues **
  • Elektra (2001) - 35 issues
  • Spider-Gwen (2015) - 35 issues

** Ongoing

This really is a sad list and basically proves the OP's point.

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#44 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

See Anthp is triggered

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#45 Posted by Jgames (8147 posts) - - Show Bio

1.Male demographic.

2.Most people creating comics were male back in the day. Bot saying males cannot write female characters, just that they tend to be less confidence in writing them.

3.They just a female version of an already established heroes.

4.Terrible writing, which is made worst if they happen to be sexist and stereotype.

5.Most of the great female characters are a part of the team.

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#46 Posted by King-Ragnar (3846 posts) - - Show Bio

ANTHP isn't satisfied with the quality of Marvels women.

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#47 Posted by FaradaySloth (9268 posts) - - Show Bio

CAPTAIN SALT?

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#48 Posted by TourneyMaster (1534 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26904 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by phisigmatau (1795 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainplanet: It isn't that they haven't tried. They just haven't been very successful. Also, because Wonder Women already existed. It's a niche that didn' tneed to be filled.

Marvel has always excelled more at team ups and sociopolitical stories rathe rthan the singular, all powerful pardigms.

Those team ups have given us women such as Jean Grey, and Storm, and Black Widow, etc.