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#1 Posted by immoralimmortal (920 posts) - - Show Bio

even their high-tiers like Thor & Captain Marvel have the speed of normal humans in combat..

whereas in every other live-action comic universe the speedy characters have statue hax to emphasize how fast they're going. why do you think the MCU struggles to portray comic-like speed correctly?

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#2 Posted by phisigmatau (1795 posts) - - Show Bio

even their high-tiers like Thor & Captain Marvel have the speed of normal humans in combat..

whereas in every other live-action comic universe the speedy characters have statue hax to emphasize how fast they're going. why do you think the MCU struggles to portray comic-like speed correctly?

tbh mcu comics characters are consistently statues as well
regardless its MCU's wave to trollign the fanbase
they no the few hundred consistent members of comicvine who are mcu fanboys are being wrekt on the message boards by dceu fanboys due to lack of combat feat speeds, so they troll them
they could make em faster but its more fun watchin mcu fanboys do mental gymnastics for their favorite heroes not getting solo'd by dcue supes without a scratch

dcue superman speedblitz stomps thor statue
superman stomps
superman stomps
womp womp stomp

lol who cares

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#3 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (15823 posts) - - Show Bio

There’s no reason for their characters to be that fast.

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#4 Posted by RBT (27761 posts) - - Show Bio

They can when they want to. See Quicksilver. They just don't think their other characters are that fast.

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#5 Posted by immoralimmortal (920 posts) - - Show Bio
@rbt said:

They can when they want to. See Quicksilver. They just don't think their other characters are that fast.

even Quicksilver was like the live-action slowest speedster ever

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#6 Edited by kgb725 (18732 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by kgb725 (18732 posts) - - Show Bio

Dont see why they would do that. Fox only shows QS as being really fast everyone else is not

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#8 Posted by macleen (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

They can when they want to. See Quicksilver. They just don't think their other characters are that fast.

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#9 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

Because they don’t care about destruction porn or “muh featz” they care about the personality and likability of their characters.

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#10 Posted by TheSuperor (6682 posts) - - Show Bio

Because they don’t care about destruction porn or “muh featz” they care about the personality and likability of their characters.

It's possible to have it both ways though. One doesn't cancel out the other.

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#11 Posted by xZone (10334 posts) - - Show Bio

Uh, Thor and Captain Marvel have speed feats. Wether you choose to acknowledge that or not is up to you

X

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#12 Posted by Emanresu_20 (2830 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I prefer they don’t have all their heroes moving at high speeds.

One thing they do better than the Fox Verse and the DCEU is creative fight choreography. I’d rather have that than see them just rag doll each other at blue speeds.

Fox Quick Silver however is what stands out the most to me. He’s high speed fights are very well done and very fun to watch.

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#13 Posted by DammeFavour (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: yea they do....only you just see them. Muh Thor was moving in qs perspective (let's just ignore the ultron bot that had no contact with Thor moving as well). Let's just ignore all the fights he's been in against kurse, loki, hulk, makekith, ultron and iron man where he moved as fast as a human

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#14 Edited by GXrevs06 (4567 posts) - - Show Bio

Because the writers are not "feat nerds" like us. They don't sit at their desks pondering "Hmm, should I make him multi-mountain level with tripe digits mach speed or a double digits 100 tonner?". I'd be awesome though if writers wrote with feats in mind

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#15 Posted by Gaoron (8746 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is a slowpoke im comics aswell so it's accurate... don't know about Captain Marvel.

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#16 Posted by SC (18141 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_shazam0920 said:

Because they don’t care about destruction porn or “muh featz” they care about the personality and likability of their characters.

It's possible to have it both ways though. One doesn't cancel out the other.

Thats accurate, I agree, though one is naturally a bigger priority and concern for film creators and the general and wider public, and the other is usually a byproduct of having to distinguish between certain characters powers and giving characters a niche, for that same audience. With speed specifically, Flash has always been a lot more relevant (and integrated into JL) than Quicksilver (and his relationship to Avengers), and usually more powerful as well. When power creep and writer inconsistency and other creative techniques/issues are added, you start to get examples that move left and right of center.

If Quicksilver or Makkari ever became huge and relevant in comics, team movies, where they could potentially hold their own solo movie? Started appearing alongside Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, Cap as peers etc not only would more speed scenes be thrown in (with a byproduct of this being feats) but interactions with other characters, would also be creatively considered and not necessarily portrayed as one sided (with a byproduct either being feats for other characters too, or criticism of writing, or both)

Alternatively there are some powerful characters that rarely if ever show "speed feats" because they don't really "need" to. If an entity can be affected on some tangible level, then they can/'should' be affected by the consequences of speed applied. Like say Galactus, except Galactus conflicts never really involve speed, but why? Well, creatively speaking, an identifiable and pronounced characteristic of Galactus is his massive, majestic, lumbering, presence. Power! One basic arm/film technique when portraying such size and power, is to actually slow the characters animation down, (and a few other tricks, like birds for scale!!) to convey that sheer size and scope.

Most comic writers and probably most creators concerned with comic to movie adaptations, don't really care about portraying speed realistically. Then those that do... often screw up, and use technical or scientific language or principles wrong - but it might sound cool so... also, they usually don't try and flip the entire established hierarchy upside. Characters in their stories just get readjusted or rebalanced stylistically. Oh and again, its not about them not wanting to portray powers, thats huge in the superhero genre, but its character and quality rooted. Fox's Quicksilver's speed was probably thought of purely in terms of his iconic scenes and then the characters abilities conformed to that - its not like they sat around and vetoed cool scene ideas because "realistically the character isn't that fast enough to do that according to the powers we imagined" ditto conversations about how he would interact with others.

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#17 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc:

Great post man.

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#18 Posted by xZone (10334 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by SC (18141 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Edited by JediXMan (42477 posts) - - Show Bio
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I wish they did it more, though.

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#21 Posted by Amcu (16616 posts) - - Show Bio

Because they don't care about making every character feel like a speedster.

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#22 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26816 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn I wish Thor had speed feats.

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#23 Posted by pkety (219 posts) - - Show Bio

It’s cause marvel characters slow af

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#24 Posted by The_Magister (13872 posts) - - Show Bio

They don't care about feats. I think the MCU in particular focuses more on the portrayal than on the feats. Like take Bucky for example - he's not really the best marksman by feats, but every moment in TWS when he's hunting someone down with a gun makes him feel like a force of nature.

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#25 Posted by macleen (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn I wish Thor had speed feats.

Lol you're going to make Xzone foam in the mouth

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#26 Posted by Kevd4wg (12701 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Edited by MetalJimmor (6407 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of the MCU cast simply aren't known for their speed. Thor and Hulk aren't super fast because it isn't a part of their core concept. Therefore the foes they fight equally do not need to be fast to keep up with them so Thanos is not a speedster either. Because only a relative low tier like Quicksilver actually has super speed none of the other characters need to also have that power for the fights to make sense.

This isn't so at DC. One of Superman's most iconic powers is being "faster than a speeding bullet". Same with Wonder Woman and her iconic ability to block bullets with her bracers. Naturally you have the Flash as well, and his speed is a core part of his character. Already you have 3/7 members of the Justice League having superhuman speed. This creates an environment where being able to deliver a satisfying and visually stunning combat scene necessitates the use of speed in order to best portray the characters as the audience expects.

Making a big chunk of your characters fast makes writing stories harder, though. It would be a lot harder to justify Ironman being able to fight enemies that give Thor or Hulk a hard time if they also had vastly superior speed to a normal human. This is a struggle DC writers have. To be consistent they either need to make everyone fast or riddle their stories with discrepancies.

It is just simpler to not make everyone fast. The only reason DC does it at all is because they are expected to.

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#28 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26816 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: Yeah, I believe the Russos have also said before that writing Superman and the likes is something they'd have a hard time with cause he's just so powerful.

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#29 Posted by kgb725 (18732 posts) - - Show Bio

They don't care about feats. I think the MCU in particular focuses more on the portrayal than on the feats. Like take Bucky for example - he's not really the best marksman by feats, but every moment in TWS when he's hunting someone down with a gun makes him feel like a force of nature.

Theres plenty of feats they just don't throw in a bunch of them just to have them like Superman is pulling a ship and speeding around the world just to get a jesus comparison.

Take Odin for example he beat Surtur , sealed Hela , and completely depowered Thor. If it doesnt tie into the story we just wont see it

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#30 Posted by deactivated-5ca9389143922 (596 posts) - - Show Bio

They all have infinite speed

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#31 Posted by The_Red_Devil (4760 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone said:

Uh, Thor and Captain Marvel have speed feats. Wether you choose to acknowledge that or not is up to you

X

True.

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#32 Posted by MarvelandDCfan24 (7316 posts) - - Show Bio

Speed is to OP

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#33 Posted by MegaCityOne (214 posts) - - Show Bio

Quicksilver Avengers was close but he still could be tagged

This is a quote from Joss Whedon

,

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'Joss begins by saying: "With that one big exception (Batman), DC's heroes are from a different era. They're from the era when they were creating gods." For a bit of background and perspective before we continue, DC Comics was founded in 1934 (originally as National Allied Publications), while Marvel Comics was founded in 1939 (as Timely Publications). Batman was created in 1939, Superman was created in 1932. On the Marvel side of things, Spider-Man was created in 1962, and Captain America was created in 1941."The thing that made [rival publisher] Marvel Comics extraordinary was that they created people. Their characters didn't live in mythical cities, they lived in New York. They absolutely were a part of the world. Peter Parker's character (Spider-Man) was a tortured adolescent.""DC's characters, like Wonder Woman and Superman and Green Lantern, were all very much removed from humanity. Batman was the only character they had who was so rooted in pain, that had that same gift that the Marvel characters had, which was that gift of humanity that we can relate to." '

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#34 Posted by ByondEon (701 posts) - - Show Bio
Loading Video...

Best scene in any movie

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#35 Posted by greenroost (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of the MCU cast simply aren't known for their speed. Thor and Hulk aren't super fast because it isn't a part of their core concept. Therefore the foes they fight equally do not need to be fast to keep up with them so Thanos is not a speedster either. Because only a relative low tier like Quicksilver actually has super speed none of the other characters need to also have that power for the fights to make sense.

This isn't so at DC. One of Superman's most iconic powers is being "faster than a speeding bullet". Same with Wonder Woman and her iconic ability to block bullets with her bracers. Naturally you have the Flash as well, and his speed is a core part of his character. Already you have 3/7 members of the Justice League having superhuman speed. This creates an environment where being able to deliver a satisfying and visually stunning combat scene necessitates the use of speed in order to best portray the characters as the audience expects.

Making a big chunk of your characters fast makes writing stories harder, though. It would be a lot harder to justify Ironman being able to fight enemies that give Thor or Hulk a hard time if they also had vastly superior speed to a normal human. This is a struggle DC writers have. To be consistent they either need to make everyone fast or riddle their stories with discrepancies.

It is just simpler to not make everyone fast. The only reason DC does it at all is because they are expected to.

right

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#36 Posted by Dogzee (528 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: yea they do....only you just see them. Muh Thor was moving in qs perspective (let's just ignore the ultron bot that had no contact with Thor moving as well). Let's just ignore all the fights he's been in against kurse, loki, hulk, makekith, ultron and iron man where he moved as fast as a human

Lmfaoo

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#37 Posted by Dogzee (528 posts) - - Show Bio

It's almost as if--- unlike Superman, Supergirl, Flash, Fox Quicksilver and who else, none of the main MCU heroes have superspeed listed under their powerset

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#38 Posted by MetalJimmor (6407 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I believe the Russos have also said before that writing Superman and the likes is something they'd have a hard time with cause he's just so powerful.

Indeed. It is just harder to write a character well when they operate at a different speed than everyone else. Harder to design a fight scene that isn't entirely slow motion. Harder to justify non-speedster characters having any input on the fight. Harder to justify the hero not pulling the old "he's a statue to me" trick on the villain. If the DCEU writers didn't feel obligated to include these iconic powers of their characters I am pretty sure they wouldn't go out of their way to do it either.

That isn't to say it is impossible or not worth doing. Super speed can actually be a really fun power to play with, so there is a pay off. But if it isn't a core facet of a character's fantasy there is no point to adding it in and making your work harder. People make fun of Thor for being slow here on the Vine, but honestly I don't think many fans of the character would like him more if he had Superman's super speed. It doesn't improve the fantasy of a super powered Viking god in a sci fi setting in any meaningful way.

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#39 Posted by Scipio123 (629 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's a symptom of the MCU's inability to properly show fights between high tiers. Their street-levelers (Cap, Spidey and T'Challa especially) have really been done a great justice and they dominate most street-levelers from other movie universes.

On the other hand, their high tiers are really under-powered and these fights are visually unimpressive. This is especially the case with Thor, who fights like a street leveler in most of his 1v1 fights.

Take this for example:

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Watching this you wouldn't have the impression that Thor and Hela are any stronger than Cap or Bucky. These are two GODS, children of Odin. Every punch should be creating shockwaves and shattering the pillars around them. They should be fighting at mach speed. Instead, there aren't any and the audience is left thinking that a human super soldier might be able to hold his own in this fight.

It's for this reason that MCU high tiers are totally un-competitive on the Battle forums against Fox, CW and DCEU characters. They simply aren't as fast as their DCEU/CW counterparts (Diana, Arthur, Ares, Zod, Clark, Kara), or as destructive as their Fox counterparts (Erik, Jean Peter, Scott, Charles)

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#40 Posted by GateOfBabylon (4005 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of the time it makes things boring. If a character is too fast, he's too overpowered, and makes people wonder why he can't save the day single-handedly.

To fix that, they'd either have to make the character inexperienced or inept (DCEU Flash), or make the character only show up at the last second to save the day (DCEU Supes). None is viable for more than one movie and other solutions would mostly be illogical.

One rare case done well is FOX Quicksilver. In the first movie they excluded him from most of the movie for the exact reason stated above. In the second movie, I guess they made Apocalypse have fast enough senses to detect him or something. In the upcoming movie, they'd probably make Jean Grey OP enough to deal with him somehow. But this won't be viable for long.

How many different solutions can you come up with to deal with a speedster that doesn't get repetitive, boring, or stupid eventually?

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#41 Posted by CCThor (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

@megacityone:

That was a lucky shot or an random shot just happens to accidently hit him.

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#42 Posted by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

Yondu's arrow was hella fast tho

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#43 Posted by Scipio123 (629 posts) - - Show Bio

@gateofbabylon: There's still no excuse for gods like Thor and Hela fighting like street levelers.

There's no visual difference between this:

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And this:

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If you showed those two scenes to someone who had never seen any of the other movies out of context, they wouldn't necessarily think that Thor and Hela were massively stronger (and certainly not faster) than Steve or Bucky.

Obviously I'm not saying that Thor or Hela are street level; just that far too often they are shown fighting like them.

Where are the shockwaves? Explosions? Collateral damage? Thor and Hela should have destroyed the palace with their fight. Instead, it took an MCU sky-father (Surtur) to equal (not surpass) the damage output of a Day One and inexperienced Clark. That's pathetic.

If you're gonna have gods in your movies, the least you can do is have them fight like this:

No Caption Provided

Otherwise, stick to street level characters (which is what the MCU does best).

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#44 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (11104 posts) - - Show Bio

@scipio123: Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or for real..

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#45 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (1651 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain marvel is lightspeed in reaction and travel

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#46 Posted by Scipio123 (629 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: A bit of both.

I do genuinely find it frustrating how street level-ish most MCU high tier fights are, especially when compared with the DCEU.

There are a handful of exceptions (e.g. the Titan Battle in IW and Hulk vs Hulkbuster), but most are pretty pathetic to behold.

They had better deliver in Endgame. I finally want to see some genuinely spectacular fights between high tiers with big collateral damage and shockwaves (some nice speed would also help).

But they'll probably water it down again and give us a final battle where Thanos gets eaten by Goose the cat.

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#47 Posted by DammeFavour (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen: um.....nope. in travel outside earth's atmosphere, maybe, we know the engine can achieve lightspeed, but we don't actually know how fast they were going at that very moment

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#48 Posted by Stahlflamme (5733 posts) - - Show Bio

As opposed to what the dceu and fox stuff were characters are only momentarily superfast because the writers can't actually make the speed work in the context of the story but the directors want their slowmo porn. Like Wonder Womans bullet blocking but getting tagged by normal hits, Superman supposedly being superfast but everything moving at normal speed around him anyway. FOX Quicksilver doing his indulgent scenes but then somehow being useless in the climax anyway. Age of Utron is the only speedster movie that has every moment of the speedster being hurt make sense in context and it was a pain to do. That's why they never indulge slow motion scenes like that because everyone and their gransmother would notice how there ahould not be any tension later on in the movie if they can do that.

@scipio123: If you are older than thirteen that's an embarrassing way to judge a fight scene. Collateral damage and shockwaves puipuipui...

@DammeFavour: Presumably it's getting much faster than the speed of light. I mean actual lightspeed really doesn't accomplish much in galaxy far travel... I mean you would need 4 years to reach the nearest star outside of pur solar system. Those stargates must be way faster than that.

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#49 Posted by WhyZoSerious (1721 posts) - - Show Bio

Coz otherwise DC fanbous would have been dead.

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#50 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (11104 posts) - - Show Bio

@scipio123: I guess there is some truth in all that.

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