• 107 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Avatar image for theamazingspidey
Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Why Black Panther is Worthy of a Best Picture Nomination

The best picture nomination for Black Panther has elicited strong emotion from both sides of the crowd: those who are immensely appeased by the announcement, and those who believe Black Panther is undeserving of the prestige of such a nomination. To believe Black Panther is diluting the prestige of the biggest award category of the biggest annual awards show, movie or otherwise, that would imply there was prestige in the first place. But a best picture nomination has never been a prestigious, esoteric thing that only the finest movies with the greatest mastery of filmmaking are able to accomplish.

In 2004, the movie Crash, a movie most would consider an "Explain Like I'm 5" version of racial harmony, was nominated for and won Best Picture. In 2012, the 46% scoring Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close was nominated for best picture. Black Panther isn't taking away the prestige from the best picture category, because the award has never had unattainable prestige to begin with. So even if you believe Black Panther is nothing more than your average superhero movie and isn't deserving of critical acclaim, you'd be hard pressed to make a compelling argument for why Black Panther is breaking a precedent that never existed in the first place.

Which brings me to my next point, the focal point of this entire argument, which is people arguing that Black Panther's nomination is entirely politically motivated. First off, I do believe Black Panther's best picture nomination is entirely political, and I think you'd need to be blocking your ears and kicking and screaming to deny it. That said, that has nothing to do with my personal opinion. I think Black Panther is not only a great movie, but one of the greatest superhero movies ever made. I loved how the movie managed to be both entertaining, while also delivering on a compelling idealogical conflict that explores real-world themes: that's a tough balance to find, but director Ryan Coogler pulled it off exceptionally well. However, it's painfully obvious that this has nothing to do with why The Academy nominated it. How do I know that? Well, just look at the nominations.

How is it that Black Panther is nominated for the biggest award show of the entire night, yet doesn't have a single nomination in any other one of the major categories. It isn't nominated for best director. It isn't nominated for best actress. It isn't nominated for best actor. It isn't nominated for best supporting actor or actress. It isn't nominated for any screenplay awards. These are the aspects and categories that come together to determine the quality of a movie, yet Black Panther - a best picture nominee - isn't nominated in any of them. The Academy might as well be holding a sign that says "we're nominating Black Panther because of it's cultural impact." I don't think anyone is trying to deny that Black Panther's nomination wasn't politically motivated, but there are people arguing that there is something wrong with the Academy for nominating something for political reasons. This is where I disagree.

One of the first things I learnt in art class is that there are 4 "frames" to assess and critique art. The subjective frame, which is concerned with the psychological, emotional aspects of art. The 2nd is the structural frame, which in the case of cinema, would be concerned with the technology and filmmaking perspectives used, the signs and symbols utilised in the film, and what they reflect. The 3rd, the postmodern frame, is concerned with how the artwork challenges mainstream ideas. And the 4th is the cultural frame, which is concerned with the social and cultural impact of the artwork and how the art represents a particular social and cultural group.

Art historians and critics have always taken cultural and political impact into account. One of the reasons Leonardo Da Vinci's Mona Lisa, one of the greatest, most celebrated artworks in human history, was so groundbreaking, is because of how secular it was at a time where most artworks during the renaissance were religious. Most artworks during the Renaissance had heavy religious imagery and meaning, whereas the Mona Lisa is thought of as a portrait of Leonardo Da Vinci's wife: Lisa Gherardini. The creation of art and the significance of artworks have always taken into account cultural significance, and I don't know why people all of a sudden expect that to stop. Art doesn't exist in a vacuum. Art is a product of it's time. Art has cultural significance. Art challenges predetermined notions.

Am I glad Black Panther is nominated for best picture? Yes. Why? Because the Academy Awards have a long history of electing best picture nomination for reasons other than sheer quality. Yet, superhero movies have been an exception, on the sole merit of being "just superhero movies." These are the same people that say "this movie wasn't just a great superhero movie, it was a great movie. Period." Most of us can agree The Dark Knight was snubbed of a best picture nomination on the sole merit of being a superhero movie. The best picture nomination for Black Panther isn't only significant in terms of representation, but also notable in terms of superhero movies taking one step forward in terms of being recognised as a genuine artform, and not an inherently inferior genre.

It feels long overdue, but better late than never.

Avatar image for phisigmatau
#1 Posted by phisigmatau (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

it isnt.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#2 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for mrmonster
#3 Edited by mrmonster (14195 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. I gotta say, it's not very often that a comic vine post completely changes my mind on a certain topic, but this did. I never really thought to consider that the cultural impact would be a valid reason to give Black Panther a nomination.

Avatar image for deactivated-5c531dce659a2
#4 Edited by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

It is worthy, people are just upset about it* but they can get over it.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#5 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. I gotta say, it's not very often that a comic vine post completely changes my mind on a certain topic, but this did. I never really thought to consider that the cultural impact would be a valid reason to give Black Panther a nomination.

This is one of the best things anyone's ever said to me on this site. Thank you.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#6 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

It is worthy, people are just upset about but they can get over it.

Hope this post will help incite productive discussion about the topic. That's what this site is here for.

Avatar image for deactivated-5c531dce659a2
#7 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: I don't understand the notion that CBM's can't be beat pictures.

Black Panther was impactful, it was good, it had an amazing soundtrack, the visuals are stunning, the characters are good, and the story is good.

Avatar image for phisigmatau
#8 Posted by phisigmatau (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

objectively speaking its an above average movie.
As a black person I love how we had good representation in media vs being a gangbanger, I love that we as a ppl group went and supported that.
What I dont like is that it is being championed as more than it is, and we're acting like that. This movie was the step in the right direction but it wasn't a Benhur, I mean cinematically speaking, IW was more daring and had a fuller compelling story. All the while shaking up the culture as we know it.
It wasn't even the best movie in its studio that year.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#9 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@theamazingspidey: I don't understand the notion that CBM's can't be beat pictures.

Black Panther was impactful, it was good, it had an amazing soundtrack, the visuals are stunning, the characters are good, and the story is good.

Yup. I agree. Black Panther was a great movie, and was better than a lot of other best picture nominations. If worse dramas can be nominated and even win, I don't see why a superhero movie, and one that had profound cultural significance, can't.

Avatar image for helloman
#10 Posted by Helloman (27098 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#11 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

objectively speaking its an above average movie.

As a black person I love how we had good representation in media vs being a gangbanger, I love that we as a ppl group went and supported that.

What I dont like is that it is being championed as more than it is, and we're acting like that. This movie was the step in the right direction but it wasn't a Benhur, I mean cinematically speaking, IW was more daring and had a fuller compelling story. All the while shaking up the culture as we know it.

It wasn't even the best movie in its studio that year.

Thanks for the comment.

I personally agree with you in regards to Infinity War. A movie with dozens of characters from different franchises shouldn't even be watchable, and the fact it wasn't only watchable, but flat out exemplary, is a tremendous accomplish I feel people aren't appreciating enough.

Both movies were great, though I'll give the edge to IW. I thought that movie was a masterpiece.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#12 Edited by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@helloman said:

It's not.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

Avatar image for magian
#13 Posted by Magian (150932 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not denying its cultural impact but imo that shouldn't be the only reason a movie should be nominated for such an award. It is a Best Picture award after all, not Most Influential or something like this.

Avatar image for phisigmatau
#14 Posted by phisigmatau (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

@magian said:

I'm not denying its cultural impact but imo that shouldn't be the only reason a movie should be nominated for such an award. It is a Best Picture award after all, not Most Influential or something like this.

Thats my point. You can move the target. It isnt rewarding cinematic artistic excellence but popularity. Talk about watered down.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#15 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@magian said:

I'm not denying its cultural impact but imo that shouldn't be the only reason a movie should be nominated for such an award. It is a Best Picture award after all, not Most Influential or something like this.

I've heard this argument from people, but a best picture nomination can take into account numerous aspects of a movie, and impact can, and often is, one of them (The Blind Side, Crash). Cultural impact is as good a reason as any to nominate a movie for best picture, because cultural significance is inherently an aspect of art, and it's been that way since art has existed, and saying an entirely new category should be created for cultural impact to be taken into account sounds disagreeable to me, because of how inseparable art is from context.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#16 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@magian said:

I'm not denying its cultural impact but imo that shouldn't be the only reason a movie should be nominated for such an award. It is a Best Picture award after all, not Most Influential or something like this.

Thats my point. You can move the target. It isnt rewarding cinematic artistic excellence but popularity. Talk about watered down.

I've heard this argument from people, but a best picture nomination can take into account numerous aspects of a movie, and impact can, and often is, one of them (The Blind Side, Crash). Cultural impact is as good a reason as any to nominate a movie for best picture, because cultural significance is inherently an aspect of art, and it's been that way since art has existed, and saying an entirely new category should be created for cultural impact to be taken into account sounds disagreeable to me, because of how inseparable art is from context.

Avatar image for deactivated-5c531dce659a2
#17 Edited by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@phisigmatau: BP was excellence. People will call it overrated and what not but the truth is IMO it was just a good ass movie, it had the fantasy element of a mythcial place hidden from the world, it has the thrilling element if a CBM, it had hints of realism.

I really don't see what's wrong with it being nominated I can't think of many other movies that year that are better.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#18 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@phisigmatau: BP was excellence. You can say what you want but that's the truth.

As long as we're able to have a healthy discussion, everybody's opinion is valid.

Avatar image for doom_phd
#19 Posted by Doom_Phd (1483 posts) - - Show Bio

No, aside from the cultural impact it had. I can’t think of a solid reason it would be nominated.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#20 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@doom_phd said:

No, aside from the cultural impact it had. I can’t think of a solid reason it would be nominated.

Cultural impact is as valid reason a reason as any IMO.

Avatar image for adamtrmm
#21 Posted by adamTRMM (8931 posts) - - Show Bio

Cultural impact as in what, being successful?

Avatar image for deactivated-5c531dce659a2
#22 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#23 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

Cultural impact as in what, being successful?

The cultural impact of being an all-black, high-budget blockbuster that not only became a tremendous success, but the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time in America.

Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#24 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2352 posts) - - Show Bio

You make a compelling argument, but you're preaching to the choir with me, as I believe it should be nominated.

Cultural impact should definitely be a factor, as well as quality of course. Take last years Oscars for example. Shape of Water won. Is anyone going to be talking about Shape of Water in 10 years? Probably not (and I liked Shape of Water). But a movie like Get Out, which was well made, and had a large cultural impact, will be talked about and referenced for years. Or for an older example, take Goodfellas losing to Dances with Wolves.

Truth be told, Best Picture is less a representation of the actual best achievement in film and more of a look at voters tastes and the politics/cultural atmosphere in a particular year.

Cultural impact SHOULD play a part in what is nominated. When people think of 2018, are they going to remember The Favourite or Vice? Only if they win. But they'll definitely think of Black Panther. Couple that with the quality of the movie and it's at least nomination worthy.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#25 Edited by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofwakanda said:

You make a compelling argument, but you're preaching to the choir with me, as I believe it should be nominated.

Cultural impact should definitely be a factor, as well as quality of course. Take last years Oscars for example. Shape of Water won. Is anyone going to be talking about Shape of Water in 10 years? Probably not (and I liked Shape of Water). But a movie like Get Out, which was well made, and had a large cultural impact, will be talked about and referenced for years. Or for an older example, take Goodfellas losing to Dances with Wolves.

Truth be told, Best Picture is less a representation of the actual best achievement in film and more of a look at voters tastes and the politics/cultural atmosphere in a particular year.

Cultural impact SHOULD play a part in what is nominated. When people think of 2018, are they going to remember The Favourite or Vice? Only if they win. But they'll definitely think of Black Panther. Couple that with the quality of the movie and it's at least nomination worthy.

Love this and agree with everything.

I don't get the argument that it isn't worthy of best picture, when far worst movies have been nominated, and art and political context are and have always been inseparable.

Avatar image for nucleon
#26 Posted by Nucleon (2583 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: One of the first things I learnt in art class is that there are 4 "frames" to assess and critique art. The subjective frame, which is concerned with the psychological, emotional aspects of art. The 2nd is the structural frame, which in the case of cinema, would be concerned with the technology and filmmaking perspectives used, the signs and symbols utilised in the film, and what they reflect. The 3rd, the postmodern frame, is concerned with how the artwork challenges mainstream ideas. And the 4th is the cultural frame, which is concerned with the social and cultural impact of the artwork and how the art represents a particular social and cultural group.

I suspected you had academic formation. =)

You basically wrote pretty much all that I think regarding this matter - sorry.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#27 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon said:

@theamazingspidey: One of the first things I learnt in art class is that there are 4 "frames" to assess and critique art. The subjective frame, which is concerned with the psychological, emotional aspects of art. The 2nd is the structural frame, which in the case of cinema, would be concerned with the technology and filmmaking perspectives used, the signs and symbols utilised in the film, and what they reflect. The 3rd, the postmodern frame, is concerned with how the artwork challenges mainstream ideas. And the 4th is the cultural frame, which is concerned with the social and cultural impact of the artwork and how the art represents a particular social and cultural group.

I suspected you had academic formation. =)

You basically wrote pretty much all that I think regarding this matter - sorry.

Thanks for the support! xx

Avatar image for richubs
#28 Posted by Richubs (3397 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd write my reasons for why I don't think it's worthy but it'll take some time.

But I don't agree.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#29 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs said:

I'd write my reasons for why I don't think it's worthy but it'll take some time.

But I don't agree.

If you ever feel like sharing your thoughts, I'm always here.

Avatar image for rudebomberboy01
#30 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (4475 posts) - - Show Bio

Would love to see what the naysayers have to say about the OP.

Should be interesting..

Avatar image for phisigmatau
#31 Posted by phisigmatau (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofwakanda:
While i understand your argument, I don't think the best art is based on its cutural relevance but its artistic precision. we have different opinions. Art can be used to bring a voice, and touch the heart but that doesnt mean its artistically precise.

Avatar image for richubs
#32 Posted by Richubs (3397 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for magian
#33 Edited by Magian (150932 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: I see what you are saying and I could agree if BP was a movie I could see as being Best Picture material but the truth is that while it was a good movie, it just wasn't anything that great. It is just not a movie that comes to mind when someone says Academy Award winning movie and the fact that it wasn't nominated in any other major category is also quite telling. Cultural impact, trends etc are nice and all but they can easily make us lose sight of what's really good and actually deserving to win.

Avatar image for nucleon
#34 Posted by Nucleon (2583 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: You are fighting a lot so that CBMs get their share of recognition. I would even call it a consistancy in your postings. IMO, CBM are following the same path to respect as their comic counterparts did; By hiring the best in the business, when they got from "comic books" to "Illustrated novels". They're getting there, with the right names at the right places.

But still, these movies are made with the frame of a formula - which helps as much as it hinders. You can't give a deep, personal vision if you are making such a movie as a MCU, a Star Wars or a James Bond movie, because if you do their public is going to get polarized about it, as the formula is precisely what they looking for.

Avatar image for kingofwakanda
#35 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2352 posts) - - Show Bio

@phisigmatau: I never said Black Panther was the best art. If we're just going by what had the most artistic precision, this category would be Roma and a bunch of other art house films.

Film is subjective. Thats what's beautiful about it. If you don't think Black Panther has artistic merit, that's fine. Plenty of people do.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#36 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@magian:

Cultural impact, trends etc are nice and all but they can easily make us lose sight of what's really good deserving to win.

I'm weighing the worthiness of Black Panther's nomination with the precedent historically set by the Best Picture award. If the Academy constantly nominated and awarded movies solely based on excellency in scriptwriting, camerawork, performances, editing etc. then I would understand why Black Panther would pale in comparison, but the Academy has constantly taken context into account and how the movie reflects political ideology at the time. In that regard, Black Panther's nomination makes logical sense.

It is just not a movie that comes to mind when someone says Academy Award winning movie

Not necessarily a bad thing. It's cool to see the Academy look past their predetermined notions of superhero movies, to award a movie that had a profound cultural impact. Bear in mind this is an all-black, big-budget action movie that went on to become the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time domestically. Black Panther's best picture nomination will likely encourage more studios to green light big-budget movies led by people of colour in the wake of BP's critical and commercial success. You don't need to think BP is amazing, or even worthy of a best picture win, to understand why the political impact of the movie makes it hard to ignore, and makes it a worthy nomination in the context of how the Academy often nominates movies that reflect social values at times. Even if you don't agree 100% with the nomination, this definitely isn't a Bo Rhap case where you look and go "wait...... this movie was neither impactful or critically acclaimed. Why is this nominated?"

Avatar image for bullpr
#37 Edited by BullPR (5768 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: excellent, even convincing argument.

Personally, I'm more cynical (probably my age...). I wrote several time that the winner is selected through a vote (more or less fair, there is a lot of literature around it) and the nominations are, mostly, selected via the money spent by the studios to defend their top candidates. Last time I wrote that on this website I was on my phone, but right now I'm with my computer and if was easy to find a ref that open to other refs if you are interested by the subject (https://qz.com/quartzy/1525755/netflixs-oscars-campaign-for-roma-is-historically-expensive/).

So if I go back to BP, I remember quite vividly the surprise its success its generated, and how Disney decided to surf of this success to launch, for the first time concerning a CBM, a serious and systematic campaign to get BP a best picture nomination. Disney spent the adequate money for that and that money was well spent because BP is now officially nominated. Probably largely using in their strategy the political argument that you have very nicely exposed in your opening post.

This strategy, combined with the declining rate and relevance of the Oscars (I'm sure they hoping a boost of the audience partly due to this nomination), is (for me) the main reasons of this nomination.

On the good side: a lot of people enjoyed BP and for future CBMs that might been seen, retrospectively, what had allowed maybe more deserving nominations.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#38 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon:

But still, these movies are made with the frame of a formula - which helps as much as it hinders. You can't give a deep, personal vision if you are making such a movie as a MCU, a Star Wars or a James Bond movie, because if you do their public is going to get polarized about it, as the formula is precisely what they looking for.

Literally every genre has conventions and clichés. Every genre has a formula. Horror movies have a formula. Science fiction movies have formulas. However, in spite of that, these genres can still result in great movies and varied experiences within the same genre, and the superhero movie is no exception. The Dark Knight is a superhero movie, yet it explores thought-provoking themes and houses perhaps the greatest movie villain of the 21st century.

Hell, even a movie like Infinity War broke new ground: it's a movie with dozens of characters from different franchises, yet it comes together in a way that is not only watchable, but genuinely great. That movie shouldn't even be possible, but it's accomplishment is undervalued because "it's a Marvel movie with a purple dude with a nut sack." Sure, not every superhero movie will break new ground in terms of exploring thought provoking themes, but they can break ground in other ways. A movie like Infinity War shouldn't even be possible.

Sorry for the rant, I am sleepy lol.

Avatar image for adamtrmm
#39 Posted by adamTRMM (8931 posts) - - Show Bio

The cultural impact of being an all-black, high-budget blockbuster that not only became a tremendous success, but the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time in America.

So... being successful. How is that making it a "Best Picture" nominee?

Avatar image for magian
#40 Edited by Magian (150932 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: I can agree that the Academy's choices in the past weren't always based on technical merits but never said I agree with those and this is why I can't agree with the latter part of your post. Things like box office, popularity etc shouldn't weigh on what I think should be decided based on the actual quality of the movie. Again I see what you are saying and it makes sense, it is just something I can't personally agree to.

And to make myself clear, this has nothing to do with Black Panther itself really. It's not like I would be ok with either IW or Logan getting nominated for example. Imo, no CBM has been Best Picture material, some maybe were a bit closer but they are not still there.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#41 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

The cultural impact of being an all-black, high-budget blockbuster that not only became a tremendous success, but the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time in America.

So... being successful. How is that making it a "Best Picture" nominee?

Yup. The fact that a movie with an all black cast that didn't portray black people as slaves ended up becoming one of the biggest movies of all time was really significant. And I explain in OP how art criticism always takes into account cultural significance, which explains the political motivation behind the nomination.

Avatar image for adamtrmm
#42 Edited by adamTRMM (8931 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey:

Point is, I don't think its plot all that compelling, or all that unique. Just because it has majorly black cast shouldn't change that subject. Otherwise, it's an affirmative action. Which makes it kinda less significant, honest and fair.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#43 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@magian:

Things like box office, popularity

It isn't that simple. It's not like "oh, this movie made a lot of money. Let's give it a nomination." If you want to find that within this category, you'll probably find that in Bohemian Rhapsody.

With Black Panther, it's not only the fact the movie was succesful, but the impact of the success in showing movie studios and figureheads how viable blockbusters lead by people of colour can be, when a lot of people thought "black protagonist? This movie won't do more than Ant-Man numbers."

If this nominated was based on box office/popularity, you'd definitely see Infinity War on there too.

it's not about the fact is made a ton of money and was popular. It's about the nature of the success and the impact it could have.

IMO, no CBM has been Best Picture material

Not even TDK?

Avatar image for deltahuman
#44 Posted by deltahuman (4969 posts) - - Show Bio

@doom_phd said:

No, aside from the cultural impact it had. I can’t think of a solid reason it would be nominated.

This.

Other than the cultural impact, I haven't seen anything that's phenomenal or spectacular in Black Pather. Academy awards are for excellence in cinematic achievements, recognizing artistic and technical merits. If Black Panther is cinematic excellence then God help the Film Industry.

Also the notion that Black Panther deserves the nominations or deserves to be awarded because worse movies have been awarded earlier is utter rubbish. Mediocrity should never be encouraged. The Academy Awards are the most prestigious in the field of cinematic achievements. Political motivations, Favoritism etc should always be kept away from anything that rewards excellence. Just because politics has traditionally been present isn't a valid enough reason to repeat the same mistake again.

And I don't really get what's so great about BP other than probably the music and the aforementioned cultural impact. There was nothing path breaking about the story. The cinematography was good in some scenes. The CG was okayish in most scenes and plainly laughable in some. BP is just a good movie, certainly not the best in any aspect whatsoever. I'm sure many people here and away would list movies like TWS, Logan, TDK etc as being miles ahead of BP in terms of quality, without thinking twice. I don't see BP as worthy enough to be nominated, certainly and definitely not for Best Picture.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#45 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm:

Point is, I don't think its plot all that compelling, or all that unique.

Most best picture nominations, and fiction in general, aren't unique on paper. Everything has been done before. Execution is everything. How you can take several ideas and inspiration from different places, and combine them to create something unique, which I thought BP succeeded in doing. It was not only an entertaining popcorn movie, it also had fantastic worldbuilding, and managed to tell a compelling ideological conflict between Killmonger and T'Challa, which surprisingly resulted in the antagonist challenging and having a profound impact on the protagonist.

Avatar image for theamazingspidey
#46 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

@deltahuman:

Academy awards are for excellence in cinematic achievements, recognizing artistic and technical merits.

This is where me and you/many others disagree. How about cultural significance? How an artwork represents a social and cultural group? How it defies conventions of art at the time? Isn't that a part of artistic merit?

We can argue whether or not the cultural impact outweighs or doesn't outweigh the quality of the movie, but the idea that the Academy should ignore the cultural frame of a movie when taking into consideration what to nominate is absolutely ludicrous to me.

Also the notion that Black Panther deserves the nominations or deserves to be awarded because worse movies have been awarded earlier is utter rubbish.

Those first two paragraphs of OP are comparative in nature. I'm explaining why BP's nomination makes sense within the context of the history of the Academy.

Avatar image for magian
#47 Posted by Magian (150932 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: And again if we were talking about a movie that quality wise is worthy of at least getting nominated, then yeah. But it feels more and more that the movie is pushed for the wrong reasons. And it's obvious that the Academy itself doesn't think of it as a great movie when they tried to make that "Most Popular" category back then just to calm the crowd. So I find it a bit hypocritical to be nominated now.

As for TDK, it was a great, just not that much into Batman really.

Avatar image for mike_fowler
#48 Posted by Mike_Fowler (4915 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously, you’d think this place would be happy that comic book movies are truly starting to break that mould of people seeing it as “oh that’s just another superhero movie” and are actually being recognised.

Nope, people are just concerned with saying “oh I found it overrated” or “oh muh SJW”. Whether people liked the movie or not, you can’t deny the impact that it had culturally.

I agree with this OP wholeheartedly. We should be celebrating that that stigma people are having regarding comic book movies seem to finally be evaporating, even if ever so slightly

Avatar image for deltahuman
#50 Edited by deltahuman (4969 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey:

Best Picture nomination for Cultural Significance alone is still rubbish. I don't have any problem if you or the likes of you disagree with me. Everybody is entitled to his/her opinion and I'm just stating mine. And it's not like everyone is happy about BP getting nominated. It's probably the most divisive nomination in recent times and I can clearly see why.

Black Panther doesn't have Acamedy Award worthy merits on any traditional aspect of film making, neither story, nor acting, cinematography etc. Nominating an otherwise mediocre or average movie, just on the basis that it represents a particular culture or community is as ludicrous an idea as the Acamedy not recognizing the cultural aspects.

Screw nominations, What if BP ends up winning Best Picture. It might happen given how ridiculous some past Best Picture winners were. It will open a Pandora Box of problems wherein mediocre movies will start their Oscar campaigns just because they are politically motivated/supported or they represent a certain culture or community. Like I said, Mediocrity in any form shouldn't be encouraged. People end up calling Academy Awards a joke only because of these aspects like political backing or favoritism.