Why aren't there more lesbian super heroes?

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labarith

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#1  Edited By labarith

I don't mean to sound sexual-preferencist, but all things being equal... many comic book fans are guys. 
 
Guys like the idea of lesbians.  Bisexual females might be even more appealing. 
 
Now, of course, this is not to say that a lesbian or bisexual character couldn't also be a role model (like we really hope most super heroes are) just because one of the editorial attractions to them is that teenaged boys will like them. 
 
I suppose we might have similar problems to the whole Orcale-gets-retconned-into-having-legs thing, which is rather disappointing to actually handicapped people - if writers were to ever make the character change their sexuality on a whim; but given the horrible misstep of Beast's faux gayness, and the occasional change-of-sexual-preference (Rictor, more or less)... I don't think this would be that much of a big deal. 
 
Also, which company would be more likely to publish an ongoing book staring a lesbian female lead character?

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Kal'smahboi

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#2  Edited By Kal'smahboi
@labarith said:
  Also, which company would be more likely to publish an ongoing book staring a lesbian female lead character?
I can't speak for Marvel but DC has one. Batwoman is getting an ongoing starting September.
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King Quisling

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#3  Edited By King Quisling

Aren't Batwoman & the current Question lesbians? I think Valkyrie may be quasi-lesbian too.

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the_stegman

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#4  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator

Well i dunno about Marvel, but Dc has  
-Batwoman 
-Question 
-Scandal Savage 
- Knockout 
-Grace 
 
frankly, i'm surprised there's that many

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TheCrowbar

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#5  Edited By TheCrowbar

Because of the 90's
 
Right now there's a subtle undertone of publishers that are trying to make comics seem like a legitimate art and media form. Unlike the 90's which was just a 13 year old boy's fantasy(warped warped fantasy) on the page, and "We should have lesbians because our readers like girl on girl action," runs against that.
 
Oracle isn't getting retconned into having legs. She's being restored.
 
Batwoman is already a lesbian superhero.

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labarith

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#6  Edited By labarith

Way to go DC? 
 
Too bad you're scrapping your continuity, so she might  be an alien clone of superwoman trapped in a man's woman's man's woman's woman's body.

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#7  Edited By SC  Moderator

DC since they are/will be?  
 
Interesting topic though all round. I think its just a time thing and getting more writers in that appreciate and write diversity well. There is this certain point as well, where characters will be sorta maybe cliches, and then enough to sort of break down misconceptions/generalizations. Most characters in comics are usually drawn so well many can kind of almost risk comic across as lipstick lesbians. 

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GrandSymbiote94

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#8  Edited By GrandSymbiote94
@labarith said:
Way to go DC?  Too bad you're scrapping your continuity, so she might  be an alien clone of superwoman trapped in a man's woman's man's woman's woman's body.
Lol. Your funny guy.
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TheCrowbar

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#9  Edited By TheCrowbar
@labarith said:
Way to go DC?  Too bad you're scrapping your continuity, so she might  be an alien clone of superwoman trapped in a man's woman's man's woman's woman's body.
It's actually not a total scrap of the continuity more of a streamlining, which in my opinion isn't a bad idea.
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#10  Edited By jrock85
  1. Batwoman
  2. Scandal Savage
  3. Knockout
  4. Renee Montoya
  5. Karma
  6. Bling
  7. Mystique (bisexual)
  8. Destiny (bisexual)
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labarith

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#11  Edited By labarith
@TheCrowbar said:
@labarith said:
Way to go DC?  Too bad you're scrapping your continuity, so she might  be an alien clone of superwoman trapped in a man's woman's man's woman's woman's body.
It's actually not a total scrap of the continuity more of a streamlining, which in my opinion isn't a bad idea.
When you say "Everything happened to Batman that happened to Batman except the stuff that happened with Superman happened, while the stuff that happened with superman happened if and only if not featuring a retconned to exist before superman villain... but without superman" that's not a streamlining.  That's actually just a mess.
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Dracade102

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#12  Edited By Dracade102
@jrock85 said:
  1. Batwoman
  2. Scandal Savage
  3. Knockout
  4. Renee Montoya
  5. Karma
  6. Bling
  7. Mystique (bisexual)
  8. Destiny (bisexual)
I demand scans for proof!
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iLLituracy

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#13  Edited By iLLituracy
@Dracade102 said:
@jrock85 said:
  1. Batwoman
  2. Scandal Savage
  3. Knockout
  4. Renee Montoya
  5. Karma
  6. Bling
  7. Mystique (bisexual)
  8. Destiny (bisexual)
I demand scans for proof!
...Of what? 
 
Most of those women are openly lesbian and most have had relationships with one another. Batwoman and Renee Montoya, Scandal and Knockout, Mystique and Destiny, Karma confessed her love to Kitty, I remember Bling coming out but I don't remember when.
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thehummingbird

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#14  Edited By thehummingbird

I personally think Batwoman is a strong character who was built to not be a trashy male sex appeal character, but a real one with depth. I personally would go far enough to say I think of Batwoman as a role model type of character. Unlike most of the female lead charcters she does not fin under two stereotypes. Super innocent feminist (Wonder Woman) or slightly easy seeming (Black Canary). She is a combination of the two without being overdone in anyway as well as offering  a more modern version of both archetypes because of the fact she is a lesbian. They concur all three things most comic writers and creators struggle with when they make female leads. Oh I am sorry edit this later...I am super tired...

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labarith

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#15  Edited By labarith
@iLLituracy said: 
@Dracade102 said: 
@jrock85 said: 
  1. Batwoman
  2. Scandal Savage 
  3. Knockout
  4. Renee Montoya
  5. Karma
  6. Bling
  7. Mystique (bisexual)
  8. Destiny (bisexual)
I demand scans for proof!
...Of what?  Most of those women are openly lesbian and most have had relationships with one another. Batwoman and Renee Montoya, Scandal and Knockout, Mystique and Destiny, Karma confessed her love to Kitty, I remember Bling coming out but I don't remember when.
And very few pull their own book.  So kudos to Batwoman.
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CellphoneGirl

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#16  Edited By CellphoneGirl

For marvel characters that haven't been mentioned yet there are.

  1. Karolina Dean. She is dating Xavin.
  2. Julie Power. Came out during Loners i believe.
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labarith

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#17  Edited By labarith
@xxCellPhoneGirlxx said:
For marvel characters that haven't been mentioned yet there are.
  1. Karolina Dean. She is dating Xavin.
  2. Julie Power. Came out during Loners i believe.
Was the "loners"  that incredibly stupid "former super hero" crap?  Because it's one of the few radically stupid miniseries that is so bizarrely stupid that it could, in good conscience, be written off as non-cannon for it's stupidity. 
 
Making a Power Pack character gay is like making Beast gayish... epically stupid and insensitive. 
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#18  Edited By CellphoneGirl
@labarith: I actually liked the mini series. In a way it was already sort of hinted for Julie during Runaways. Not sure how having Julie coming out is anything close to making Beast gay either.
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#19  Edited By TheCrowbar
@labarith said:
@TheCrowbar said:
@labarith said:
Way to go DC?  Too bad you're scrapping your continuity, so she might  be an alien clone of superwoman trapped in a man's woman's man's woman's woman's body.
It's actually not a total scrap of the continuity more of a streamlining, which in my opinion isn't a bad idea.
When you say "Everything happened to Batman that happened to Batman except the stuff that happened with Superman happened, while the stuff that happened with superman happened if and only if not featuring a retconned to exist before superman villain... but without superman" that's not a streamlining.  That's actually just a mess.
Energy Superman is gone from continuity. That's streamlining.
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labarith

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#20  Edited By labarith
@xxCellPhoneGirlxx said:
@labarith: I actually liked the mini series. In a way it was already sort of hinted for Julie during Runaways. Not sure how having Julie coming out is anything close to making Beast gay either.
There was an arc where beast breaks up with his girlfriend by pretending to be gay, and because he's semi-famous runs with it in the media. 
 
Yup. 
 
Now - it would be one thing if we had an ongoing Power Pack series where we learn Julie is gay.  It's quite different to have some @##hole cherypick other people's characters for his mega-emo story.
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#21  Edited By CellphoneGirl
@labarith: OMFG! What title did that happen in? LOL and that is so bogus for someone to do to their gf D:  
 
That would have probably worked better. Though they really should make a Power Pack Series. Having the kids split up while there easily is a chance for a writer to come along and write a wonder series with them its just not doing it for me. Maybe in that series she could come out to her family.. if she hasn't yet.
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labarith

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#22  Edited By labarith

Again - I sincerely think we need to sweep that under the rug. 
 
Treating it as cannon is like treating Venture Brothers Johnny Quest cameos like cannon... Johnny's a druggie, Race is dead, and that bad guy was all hot for his arch.  Yeah... not cool. 
 
That said, a "more teenage" Power Pack would be pretty darned edgy if done right.  They are the Olsen Twins of comics. 
 
Edit:  Also, to be fair, there is an age-thingy going on.  FF has, even if we do some age-hurdles with time travelling franklin, slowed the PP's growing to a typical marvel halt. 
 
There was, I was told, a story about Conner's son being a druggie.  Considering Conners ate him up as, more or less, a toddler... suggests they're ignoring that story.  How?  Who the hell knows.

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Deadcool

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#23  Edited By Deadcool

So DC has lesbians... 
Marvel has A LOT of Homosexual guys...
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labarith

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#24  Edited By labarith

Ah, but few are headliners.

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Gold Dust Boi

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#25  Edited By Gold Dust Boi

Doesn't anyone remember Victoria Montesi from the Darkhold Redeemers??  What happened to her after she almost gave birth to Chthon?

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#26  Edited By Feliciano2040
@Deadcool said:
So DC has lesbians... Marvel has A LOT of Homosexual guys...
I don't get it, is that supposed to make Marvel more hip or something ?
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#27  Edited By Deadcool
@Feliciano2040 said:
@Deadcool said:
So DC has lesbians... Marvel has A LOT of Homosexual guys...
I don't get it, is that supposed to make Marvel more hip or something ?

Hip? No... 
That is something that I wanted to post...
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lokiofmidgaard

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#28  Edited By lokiofmidgaard
@xxCellPhoneGirlxx said:
For marvel characters that haven't been mentioned yet there are.
  1. Julie Power. Came out during Loners i believe.


Not quite. Loners hinted that she is, at least, questioning her sexuality. The writer of Loners said that Julie was "a little confused", so even if that confusion relates to her sexuality and not something else, it's not conclusive. We don't yet know if she is lesbian, bi, straight but curious, or even if what she was actually going on about was something entirely different (though that last is pretty unlikely).  
 
@King Quisling said: 
I think Valkyrie may be quasi-lesbian too 
 
 
No evidence for it. She's only ever shown interest in men. There are a lot of men she disdains, because her background means she dislikes weaklings (you don't have to be strong physically, but you do have to be strong of heart), won't put up with disrespect or jerks, etc, but it's men she goes for, as Thor can attest.
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#29  Edited By phliuy

because no one would have any reason to ever read anything else

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harleyquinn12

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#30  Edited By harleyquinn12

I think Thunder from the Outsiders is also a lesbian.
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CellphoneGirl

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#31  Edited By CellphoneGirl
@lokiofmidgaard: Well i wasn't sure. I haven't read Loners in forever lol
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vance_astro

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#32  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator

Lesbians are a small group thus they make up a small portion of super-heroines.Closed Case.

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#33  Edited By lokiofmidgaard
@xxCellPhoneGirlxx said:
@lokiofmidgaard: Well i wasn't sure. I haven't read Loners in forever lol

To be fair, it definitely hints at something along those lines, and there's a good chance that she'll turn out to be at least bi. I just like to try and keep the reports as accurate as possible - apart from anything else, I'd hate for readers who've only "heard" that she came out to unfairly lambast a future writer who shows her in a straight relationship, for example.
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THALASTDRAGON

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#34  Edited By THALASTDRAGON

Too many times, when a character is shown to be a lesbian, it's more for spectacle and doesn't always show the depth of a character.  Sometimes it's been like ooh a lesbian and it doesn't enhance stories or characters.

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#35  Edited By SC  Moderator
@lokiofmidgaard:  I think the poster talking about Val is referencing the time the character advocated that physical love need not be exclusive to male/female.  Or at least something along those lines. 
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#36  Edited By JCJQLB
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#37  Edited By SC  Moderator

Didn't know we were having a list off! =p 
 
Victoria Hand (my favorite new Lesbian) 
Karolina Dean 
Renee Montoya 
Catwoman (Holly Robinson) 
Bling  
Skein
Batwoman 
Jennifer Kale 
Victoria Montesi 
Karma 
Scandal   
Knockout
Renee Montoya 
Phyla-Vell  
Moondragon 
Sunfire from Exiles 
 
I tried not to include bisexuals otherwise the list could grow (Black Cat, Mystique, Tefe Holland), and some of above I forget if they are strictly lesbian or bisexual so my bad. 

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#38  Edited By SC  Moderator
@JCJQLB said:
You could always check the homosexuality page here on CV
 
Oooh, that page is really helpful, thanks! 
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JCJQLB

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#39  Edited By JCJQLB
@SC: No Problem! xD
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Taliax

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#40  Edited By Taliax

No way all the Amazons on Themyscira had not experimented when there are no men around.

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#41  Edited By lokiofmidgaard
@SC said:
@lokiofmidgaard:  I think the poster talking about Val is referencing the time the character advocated that physical love need not be exclusive to male/female.  Or at least something along those lines. 

Don't recall that incident off hand, but depending on the context that might simply be her showing that she has no prejudices. If she has shown interest in other women, then she's bi, because she is also definitely interested in men. Val's one of the few cases where I'd be sorry if she did turn out to go for other women, as it would be playing to stereotypes. She's an outspoken feminist - hence she must be a lesbian? Blech. Let's avoid the "lesbians are man-haters" and "feminists must be lesbians" misrepresentations. We've already got Man-Killer. Let's have more lesbians who are cool with men but just don't want to sleep with them, ones who are pretty AND ones who are plain, ones who are butch AND ones who are femme and ones who don't let themselves fall into either category. In short, let's have variety.  
 
Btw, Jennifer Kale may be bi, rather than lesbian, based on past boyfriends. Or she may just have taken a while before she figured out her own preferences, and tried to play it straight for a while. Hard to say right now, unless she's outright stated her position.
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#42  Edited By nemt

I always figured Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy dyked out a few times.

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#43  Edited By NinjaMime

Now that I think about it, why are they aren't as many lesbians on Marvel and not many gays in DC.  Not off the top of my head anyways, I can think of Rictor and Northsar for Marvel but no females, Scandal, Batwoman and Renee Montoya for DC but no guys.