@DocFatalis: And now we've delved into an argument on what the fabrics of race are. Honestly, I notice the physical differences between different people from different parts of the world. I'm not saying it's particularly important as we are all Homo Sapiens, but the differences are still apparent and made obvious. Different people were raised in different parts of the world and the differences aren't limited to cultural preferences because they've developed genetically transmitted physical characteristics due to descending from a common ancestor. It does not reflect behavioral differences according to the Encyclopedia.
Either way, that whole one human race thing doesn't make it right that there are only three black speedsters that don't compare to the other speedsters who all happen to be Caucasian. Like I said Wally runs 15x the speed of light. And the fastest actually black speedster so far only goes 300 mph. Both of them being homo sapiens doesn't account for that.
@DocFatalis: And now we've delved into an argument on what the fabrics of race are. Honestly, I notice the physical differences between different people from different parts of the world. I'm not saying it's particularly important as we are all Homo Sapiens, but the differences are still apparent and made obvious. Different people were raised in different parts of the world and the differences aren't limited to cultural preferences because they've developed genetically transmitted physical characteristics due to descending from a common ancestor. It does not reflect behavioral differences according to the Encyclopedia.
Either way, that whole one human race thing doesn't make it right that there are only three black speedsters that don't compare to the other speedsters who all happen to be Caucasian. Like I said Wally runs 15x the speed of light. And the fastest actually black speedster so far only goes 300 mph. Both of them being homo sapiens doesn't account for that.
So when someone from the south of France with ancestors from central Asia marries someone from Western Africa with ancestors from Antilles and they have children, what is the race of the children please?
@DocFatalis: What did you expect me to say. It's a legit response on the US census. And being French or Antillian isn't really race. That's ethnicity. And also mixed is not a race. I'm saying she's on both sides.
@Pfcoolio15: That is precisely what I expected you to say, and that is one of the reasons why the old concept of race can not apply to our world anymore. So it's not really important to know what the colour of the face of the speedster is like, what's important is who he is and what his moral values are. You can complain that someone is behaving like a jerk or incompetent at what he is doing, but you can't complain at the colour of his skin or where he's coming from.
I think I understand what your observation was about (as much as someone not living in USA can), but I also think that you are picking the wrong fight here: the number of black or white speedster is I believe far less important nowadays than what those guys stand for and what model they represent for children, no matter their cultural background.
@DocFatalis: I'm not trying to say that the morals aren't as important. I think you're missing my argument here. I'm saying that the few black speedsters there are could be just as competent speedsters as all the others. Not just 300 mph.
@Pfcoolio15: I've wondered the same thing and personally I think its cause the two major companies are afraid. Afraid that if they make a black/brown/African American speedster it will come off as a racist sterotype. Then again they did make Brown Bomber so.....either way, as an African American myself I would love to see a black speedster who is at least in the ball park of Flash or Quicksilver.
@Pfcoolio15: @AtPhantom: @FadeToBlackBolt: When people say speedster, they are usually referring to people that run at super speeds. Black Lightning transmutes himself into electricity, lightning theoretically can do the same thing (but hasn't), thunder doesn't even have powers like that-she manipulates her density, static can't go that fast, coldcast can't go that fast, black vulcan can't go that fast, jakeem thunder's powers have nothing to do with this- he manipulates a genie (see black aladdin), thunderfall can't go that fast, big thunder can't go that fast. storm can do what black lightning can (not run), same goes for shango, night thrasher doesn't even have powers, bedlam's powers have nothing to do with this-he interfaces with em energy
@Quintus_Knightfall: This is the point I've been trying to put across, but all of a sudden these people are talking about how everyone is a homo sapien so it shouldn't matter? I mean really?
@Jorgevy: it's easy to say that when your race is well represented in every power classification, in every ability category, in every occupation, in every team, etc.etc. etc.
@joshuagamer: 1) you don't know my "race" or whatever backwards classification you'd like to use 2) what are you replying to, it's a bit out of context,I can't answer properly
@Pfcoolio15: no I dont, this whole thread is ridiculous. we dont need insert token character for specific ethnictiy for every category or power set. that's utterly ridiculous
might as well make all the super inteligent characters in comics Asian then, if we are going to go by stereotypes and pointless statistics
@Onemoreposter I've seen him react and do stuff at super speed so he does have super speed but still Bulletproof is more of a superman than a speedster (speed plus the flight strenght durability etc..)
@joshuagamer: well point still stands. for your info, I could be classified as latin, hispanic or caucasian, depending on the definitions of those things, in terms of race. either way, that doesn't matter since we already went over the whole race thing. but yeah
I don't say that just because, it's true, we don't need token characters in key roles. we need good characters and good characters for various people and ethnies around the world. you don't see me complaining because there are no "latin" magicians or whatever. it's idiotic (no offense to you, only to the concept) to attach EVERY SINGLE powerset a specific physical trait group - blonde speedsters, brunnette speedsters, red headed speedsters, black speedsters, white speedsters, olive tanned speedsters, yellowish speedsters, brownish speedsters, red skinned speedsters, blue eyed speedsters, and so on, so on, so on
do you get my point? in america, "whites" tend to be a majority for know and in media as well. okay, I get that, I see that, even though Im not american. but that doesn't mean every one who is not "white" needs a character in every category.
just get good characters for each "minority", that's all you need. then let creativity and imagination sort the rest out and decide wether this new character will be blonde or ginger, black or white, religious or not.
i'd don't see anything wrong with having a black speedster. what i hate is that black characters powers aren't that creative and character development compared to the A-list heroes.
You could be right...
Storm - The Mistress of Weather... Nothing interesting there.
Dr. Voodoo - Former Sorcerer Supreme. Talk about trite and uninteresting.
John Stewart - Green Lantern... B-lister. Dull. Probably no one has ever heard of him.
Black Panther - King of Wakanda, super genius, fighter extraordinaire. One of the ten most intelligent men on the planet. YAAAaaawwwwnnnNNN.
I wonder if anyone else could add to this list of underdevolped B-listers.... Surely no one would think of, Cyborg, Bishop, Blue Marvel, SPIDER-MAN (ultimate comics), or....
@Jorgevy: I'm not expecting the number of Blacks to match that of Whites, because that would be inaccurate. I expect Black representation to correlate with the number of Blacks there are; the same can be said for Latins, Asians, Indians (technically they're not Asians) , middle easterners, and native Americans. I'm of course talking about America, but this proportion rule should change accordingly based on the location of the comic. Many of the characteristics (e.g. blue eyes, blonde hair, red hair, etc.) are far less important than race, as they do not have the ability to unify or stratify people like race (as has happened for thousands of years-leading to slavery, genocide, persecution, allocation to the lower rungs of society, torture, rape, etc.). My point stands as well, due to the fact that the preponderance of the people that complain about these threads are not among the under-represented, but those that are able to indulge in ubiquity. I certainly do not believe that the industry should start making characters to meet quotas, but they need to seek to be more accurate and more inclusive in the future (my posts have talked mostly about Blacks, but the other minorities' representation in comics is even worse).
@Quintus_Knightfall: This is the point I've been trying to put across, but all of a sudden these people are talking about how everyone is a homo sapien so it shouldn't matter? I mean really?
I'd ignore em to be honest. Let em ramble on. Its a simple question and you're not the only one to have noticed or wondered about it. I'd stick to having conversations with people who aren't trying to make this more then what it is.
Does it seem odd not to have an African American speedster? I think so. Always have.
@joshuagamer: if we want to go by technicalisms, indians are "white".
i dont think races should be of importance
but if we chane and admit ethnies, then yeah, several ethnies could use more representation but i believe that has to come through creativity, otherwise we get
100 african americans with lightning powers.
I agree with your idea of making things more equal, and try to meet the region, in this case the US, but I cannot agree with the concept of races or the demand for quotas for such a thing.
Ethnic characters? sure, it would be cool if every country and every ethny had it's own few characters, but that goes to another problem
americancentrism in comics. we rarely see teams, supers or settings in other places than USA and if we do it's very quickly and not deep enough. every major events happen there as well. but that's a whole other problemo
@Pfcoolio15: no I dont, this whole thread is ridiculous. we dont need insert token character for specific ethnictiy for every category or power set. that's utterly ridiculous
might as well make all the super inteligent characters in comics Asian then, if we are going to go by stereotypes and pointless statistics
@Onemoreposter I've seen him react and do stuff at super speed so he does have super speed but still Bulletproof is more of a superman than a speedster (speed plus the flight strenght durability etc..)
He moves fast, but not that fast. It's been shown he can't keep up with the likes of Invincible. Also, when does move fast, he's flying. Speedsters run. Even if he can run at super speeds, he's still not a speedster. He's just another flying brick that can move fast.
@Jorgevy: your point about the 100 africans with lightning powers is very true, but if the creators have no motivation to let it happen creatively, then what ? Indians are white according to the US. standards of race, but one can simply look at their phenotypic characteristics (especially as it pertains to south indians and know that they're definitely not white). Truly race is a socially derived concept, but there are obvious things that separate humanity aside from obvious cultural differences. When you see a white man and a black man, nine times out of ten, you don't need to be told who is who. i agree with your point about every team being based in America and would love to see more JL international, Batwing, and Big Hero 6 type comics.
@Jorgevy: I'm not expecting the number of Blacks to match that of Whites, because that would be inaccurate. I expect Black representation to correlate with the number of Blacks there are; the same can be said for Latins, Asians, Indians (technically they're not Asians) , middle easterners, and native Americans. I'm of course talking about America, but this proportion rule should change accordingly based on the location of the comic. Many of the characteristics (e.g. blue eyes, blonde hair, red hair, etc.) are far less important than race, as they do not have the ability to unify or stratify people like race (as has happened for thousands of years-leading to slavery, genocide, persecution, allocation to the lower rungs of society, torture, rape, etc.). My point stands as well, due to the fact that the preponderance of the people that complain about these threads are not among the under-represented, but those that are able to indulge in ubiquity. I certainly do not believe that the industry should start making characters to meet quotas, but they need to seek to be more accurate and more inclusive in the future (my posts have talked mostly about Blacks, but the other minorities' representation in comics is even worse).
This is a fair statement.
I could bitch piss and moan about the lack of any kewl Hawaiian super heroes and the general lack of Hawaiian super heroes but the truth is, there simply aren't many of us Hawaiians left in the world... Back in the 1800s the population of Hawaiians dropped from over 400,000 to about 40,000.... Today, there's imply aren't many of us and it would be stupid of me to demand a few A lister Hawaiian heroes.... (although it would be very kewl Oh, and yes, I'm aware of Loa and Mettle... I just find them boring...)
Those of us who are comic book fans and minorities should remember that comic books were started by white men who were citizens of the united states back when most of our great grand parents were children... They wrote about things as they saw them. The writers were white and the readers were white and that's how it was... Things started to change around the 70s and 80s but change is slow... It HAS been happening and we should appreciate that, but we can always hope for things to become truly equal... Quotas would be ridiculous, but we can hope that eventually it will all even out... I've been reading comic books since the 70s and I am absolutely certain they've come a long way....
Of course, the bottom line in any business will always be, "what makes the most money?' Who buys the comic books? THOSE are the ones for whom the comic books will be written...
@Guardiandevil83: blitzen is japanese... and looks the part
Your right. It's just that the only comic I own that features her is real choppy and Abstract like. Given she was a milestone character, I assumed she was either asian/hispanic mixed. Or black and asian mixed.
@Onemoreposter: yeah he totally isn't a speedster but Im pretty sure I saw him actually moving and doing stuff at super speed, maybe not at Invincible's or other Viltrumites's levels, but definitally super speed. like, cleaning up the house in less than 2 or 3 secs... I need to find that scan but Im pretty damn sure
@joshuagamer: obviously there are differences, most of the times genotipic but from phenotipic origins (skin colour, initially phenotipic, turns into genotipic) but those don't make a whole different race, that's what society, uninformed society, thinks. so yeah, people are gonna distinguish it, but they could do so correctly, and pertaining to comics, from that education of society, writers, future writers, could begin from sole inspiration to use characters with such features creatively, just because it's natural to go out and see many different people.
on that topic I think we've come a long way. we just need faith and keep on working for equality and hopefully in the future there will be more minority characters with more predominant roles, without having to force our way in - which could be seen agressively and actually hurt our efforts
@Onemoreposter: irrefutable proff bulletproof moves and runs at super speed. he is not a speedster obviously, but he does move super fast
Umm... He looks like a speedster to me... he's moving faster than the human eye can perceive and he's cleaning an apartment (AND CHANGING CLOTHES) in a matter of seconds? Doesn't that make him a speedster?
@Pfcoolio15: Thanks for the link... That was interesting.
@Onemoreposter: irrefutable proff bulletproof moves and runs at super speed. he is not a speedster obviously, but he does move super fast
lol, hate to be a stickler, but we don't actually see his feet touching the grounding during the super speed movement. It is possible he's flying as he moves. Sorry, I'm just compelled to be "that guy."
@Timandm said:
Umm... He looks like a speedster to me... he's moving faster than the human eye can perceive and he's cleaning an apartment (AND CHANGING CLOTHES) in a matter of seconds? Doesn't that make him a speedster?
Well, no. Just moving really fast doesn't make you a speedster.
Speed has to be your primary ability. This is why character like Captain Marvel (Monica), Bulletproof, Black Lightning, Firestorm (Jason), Green Lantern (John), Pantha, Vixen, and Icon, all who can move incredibly fast if needed, wouldn't qualify as black speedsters.
@Onemoreposter: I knew you'd pull one like that but still - he is cleaning stuff up at extremely high speeds. if he can move his arms, hands, neck, head etc... at those speeds, he certainly can move his feet and legs at those speeds. so even if he isn't running, he CAN run at super speed...
@Timandm: not a speedster, just someone who happens to have super speed. super speed has to be the main power and movement for the character. like Flash. he attacks and defends and rescues with super speed. he goes from A to B with super speed running. he is a speedster.
superman is one of the fastest guys ever. but he usually flies from A to B. he attacks using speed yeah, but he also uses breath or heat vision, or super strenght crushing and smashing. he defends using speed too but mainly his durability. he rescues people with speed sometimes, other times with breath and other times with flying- superman is not a speedster, he is a flying brick
@Onemoreposter: I knew you'd pull one like that but still - he is cleaning stuff up at extremely high speeds. if he can move his arms, hands, neck, head etc... at those speeds, he certainly can move his feet and legs at those speeds. so even if he isn't running, he CAN run at super speed...
Agreed, he can theoretically run at super speed. I'm not even sure why we're arguing this. My original point was only that Bulletproof is not a speedster, which we've both agreed on for some time.
Gotcha! I didn't realize there were such specific qualifications for "speedsters" but it does make sense. I never really thought of Superman as a speedster in spite of his super speed.
But what about the flying thing.... Can one not be a speedster if they can fly? For example, North Star originally from Alpha Flight and currently a member of the X-Men. I've always thought of him as a speedster. He can run and fight at super speeds, but he can also fly at super speed.... His main power is his speed. So... is he a speedster?
@Timandm: I'd definitely classify Aurora and Northstar as speedsters. I haven't seen much of them but their powers seems to work like speedforce i.e. their durability, reflexes, reaction time all increase as their speed does to compensate and the only non-speed related power is their flight.
Now if they could only move fast while flying, It might be a different story.....
@Timandm: Northstar is widely regarded as speedster even though he can also fly, mainly because speed is his main power. since other than that he only flies, also at super speed, he is a speedster. if he flew and shot lasers and etc... then no - but pretty much everyone agrees he's a speedster
Just for S&G, you could argue there's not enough black Superman-archetype, "leading man" type heroes (Icon, alternate universe president Superman...all I can think of). Or enough black (insert other type of hero here).
No offense to the OP, but I always find these threads annoying. There are no Flash level black speedsters because no one has made one yet. It's really as simple as that. Do people really expect the comic industry to churn out a token black super hero for all the iconic powersets?
There is also the Coyote from the Mage series, though he's not Flash level so I guess he doesn't count. :-P
I dropped into this post specifically to mention Joe Phat, but I'm glad to see you already did (a few weeks ago, so sorry to bring up an old post, but there's only so many of us Mage fans around this site, so I wanted to say hello. So, Hello!).
In Tiny Titans, Peek a Boo is a speedster. And Mas y Menas would be other non-white speedsters.
No offense to the OP, but I always find these threads annoying. There are no Flash level black speedsters because no one has made one yet. It's really as simple as that. Do people really expect the comic industry to churn out a token black super hero for all the iconic powersets?
There is also the Coyote from the Mage series, though he's not Flash level so I guess he doesn't count. :-P
I dropped into this post specifically to mention Jesse Quick, but I'm glad to see you already did (a few weeks ago, so sorry to bring up an old post, but there's only so many of us Mage fans around this site, so I wanted to say hello. So, Hello!). In Tiny Titans, Peek a Boo is a speedster. And Mas y Menas would be other non-white speedsters.
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