Who's more pathetic?

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Posted by Supermanfan1938 (1097 posts) 18 days, 9 hours ago

Poll: Who's more pathetic? (63 votes)

Endgame Hulk 57%
CW Superman 43%

Both are watered down versions of their characters. And seem weak than they should be compared to their compatriots

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#1 Edited by uugieboogie (13754 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk isn’t pathetic and Clark isn’t pathetic either, Kara is just better ?

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#2 Posted by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk isn’t pathetic and Clark isn’t pathetic either, Kara is just better ?

No Caption Provided

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#3 Posted by The_Agent_Of_Chaos (1588 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk.

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#4 Posted by Kevd4wg (14288 posts) - - Show Bio

What happened to CW Superman

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#5 Edited by ByondEon (2961 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

What happened to CW Superman

People probably mad that he lost to Kara..

Anyway, Superman is more pathetic. Considering that MCU Hulk > World Breaker Hulk

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#6 Posted by uugieboogie (13754 posts) - - Show Bio

@uugieboogie said:

Hulk isn’t pathetic and Clark isn’t pathetic either, Kara is just better ?

No Caption Provided

Lmao it’s true tho

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#7 Posted by Lan_Fan (18590 posts) - - Show Bio

@killbilly said:
@uugieboogie said:

Hulk isn’t pathetic and Clark isn’t pathetic either, Kara is just better ?

No Caption Provided

Lmao it’s true tho

I mean, it is a hardcore feminist show, so it's to be expected.

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#8 Posted by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@killbilly said:
@uugieboogie said:

Hulk isn’t pathetic and Clark isn’t pathetic either, Kara is just better ?

No Caption Provided

Lmao it’s true tho

I mean, in the show sure. But that's not all that hard to do considering how hard they cucked him in it.

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#9 Posted by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@uugieboogie said:
@killbilly said:
@uugieboogie said:

Hulk isn’t pathetic and Clark isn’t pathetic either, Kara is just better ?

No Caption Provided

Lmao it’s true tho

I mean, in the show sure. But that's not all that hard to do considering how hard they cucked him in it.

He has been Batman's B#tch in comics for decades but of course you lose your shit when Wahmen is involved.

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#10 Posted by jashro44 (55255 posts) - - Show Bio

I dislike CW superman more. Superman to me is like the greatest hero ever. CW superman not being as good Kara kind of makes him a pathetic superman. He’s suppose to be the best.

It’s why I hope they just reveal CW Batman on earth prime as just dead. I get the CW is trying to empower women but I feel like maybe it would be better if they just avoided Batman and superman. No one wants to see there favourite characters torn down to build up others.

It’s also defeats the purpose of being empowering... With hulk they skipped banners development but the development itself isn’t bad. And it was a unique idea. The execution needed to be better. But with CW superman he’s sort of a disappointment especially with all the hype he got with super girl season 1.

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#11 Edited by uugieboogie (13754 posts) - - Show Bio

@killbilly said:
@uugieboogie said:
@killbilly said:
@uugieboogie said:

Hulk isn’t pathetic and Clark isn’t pathetic either, Kara is just better ?

No Caption Provided

Lmao it’s true tho

I mean, in the show sure. But that's not all that hard to do considering how hard they cucked him in it.

I was joking tho... The show’s agenda is quite obvious, and it looks like “Batwoman” is going to be following the same formula. I just hope Bruce Wayne/Batman doesn’t make a cameo.

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#12 Posted by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

I dislike CW superman more. Superman to me is like the greatest hero ever. CW superman not being as good Kara kind of makes him a pathetic superman. He’s suppose to be the best.

It’s why I hope they just reveal CW Batman on earth prime as just dead. I get the CW is trying to empower women but I feel like maybe it would be better if they just avoided Batman and superman. No one wants to see there favourite characters torn down to build up others.

It’s also defeats the purpose of being empowering... With hulk they skipped banners development but the development itself isn’t bad. And it was a unique idea. The execution needed to be better. But with CW superman he’s sort of a disappointment especially with all the hype he got with super girl season 1.

Isn't the entire Justice League torn down frequently for the development of Batman in comics.

Also the making JL pathetic so that superman can make them his bit#es in the movie

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#13 Posted by uugieboogie (13754 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

I dislike CW superman more. Superman to me is like the greatest hero ever. CW superman not being as good Kara kind of makes him a pathetic superman. He’s suppose to be the best.

It’s why I hope they just reveal CW Batman on earth prime as just dead. I get the CW is trying to empower women but I feel like maybe it would be better if they just avoided Batman and superman. No one wants to see there favourite characters torn down to build up others.

It’s also defeats the purpose of being empowering... With hulk they skipped banners development but the development itself isn’t bad. And it was a unique idea. The execution needed to be better. But with CW superman he’s sort of a disappointment especially with all the hype he got with super girl season 1.

A little off-topic but this is my exact gripe with Jane Foster Thor and why I’m not looking forward to “Love & Thunder“.

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#14 Edited by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire said:
@killbilly said:
@uugieboogie said:
@killbilly said:
@uugieboogie said:

Hulk isn’t pathetic and Clark isn’t pathetic either, Kara is just better ?

No Caption Provided

Lmao it’s true tho

I mean, in the show sure. But that's not all that hard to do considering how hard they cucked him in it.

He has been Batman's B#tch in comics for decades but of course you lose your shit when Wahmen is involved.

He's been Batman's foil* for decades. But you'd only know that if you actually read the comics so I forgive you.

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#15 Posted by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@killbilly: lol Keep on denying it. Batman has became a meme because of Bat wankery happening. But you guys only lose your shit when again wahmen are wanked instead of BatGod

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#16 Posted by jashro44 (55255 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire: I have my issues with those Batman stories. I can respect when writers are at least trying to make Batman a strategist like mark waid rather than iron man 2.0 or just having Batman ear hits from Wonder Woman or whatever.

With superman it doesn’t really bother me as much because I expect superman to be the strongest unless, someone like Martian manhunter is around but the CBS made kryptonians immune to TP. So I feel like J’ohn is more limited (which is smart for them). So even than Martian manhunter and superman are on more even footing.

There is also a difference between a character beating everyone and writers being disrespectful to characters.

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#17 Edited by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire said:

@killbilly: lol Keep on denying it. Batman has became a meme because of Bat wankery happening. But you guys only lose your shit when again wahmen are wanked instead of BatGod

It's moreso that the point of Batman is that he's able to take on gods and demons when he's just a man because of his intellect, willpower and determination while Superman remains human DESPITE his power.

There's no reason for Kara to be portrayed as stronger than her cousin other than as a forced message of "girl power." Furthermore, they neuter Superman's character in the show in order to facilitate this forced message. The former sometimes ignores what's logical for the sake of telling an entertaining story while the latter does so in order to pander to a bitter and jaded subset of the populace. THAT'S the difference.

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#18 Edited by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@tobymaguire: I have my issues with those Batman stories. I can respect when writers are at least trying to make Batman a strategist like mark waid rather than iron man 2.0 or just having Batman ear hits from Wonder Woman or whatever.

With superman it doesn’t really bother me as much because I expect superman to be the strongest unless, someone like Martian manhunter is around but the CBS made kryptonians immune to TP. So I feel like J’ohn is more limited (which is smart for them). So even than Martian manhunter and superman are on more even footing.

There is also a difference between a character beating everyone and writers being disrespectful to characters.

Stop the mental gymnastics bro! Be straightforward like @killbilly: who straight up admit he does not like Wahmen being anywhere near men and Loves Batwankery which is perfectly logical

Respect @killbilly:

No Caption Provided

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#19 Edited by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire: Go back to watching Batgirl smirking at incompetent males and saying "yas queen" whenever you see black Starfire on screen. It's the only thing you're good for.

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#20 Posted by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire: Go back to watching Batgirl smirking at incompetent males and saying "yas queen" whenever you see black Starfire on screen. It's the only thing you're good for.

Lol, I don't like wankery whether it is males or females. And yet DC has been wanking Batman and Superman at the cost of other characters for decades, offending Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, , Shazam, etc, etc Finally you sup and bat fans get the taste of your own medicine and I love watching you guys lose your mind and hypocritically defend the wanking they received from DC

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#21 Edited by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire: It's not "wanking" that has people upset. It's the fact that it's done for no other reason than to push a corrosive political agenda. Both the outcome and the intent matter.

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#22 Edited by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@killbilly said:

@tobymaguire: It's not "wanking" that has people upset. It's the fact that it's done for no other reason than to push a corrosive political agenda. Both the outcome and the intent matter.

Wanking is wanking no matter what and nobody have any right to use favorite characters as punching bag to make other character look good.The outcome is the same.

What corrosive political agenda was DC pushing when Wonder Woman who is suppose to be equal to Superman is humiliatingly defeated countless times in comics and movies by Superman, Batman and their villains.

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#23 Edited by Wrathofthebrad (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

I have my issues with those Batman stories. I can respect when writers are at least trying to make Batman a strategist like mark waid rather than iron man 2.0 or just having Batman ear hits from Wonder Woman or whatever.

Batman's strategies against the Justice League rarely make any sense without jobbing of the target though.

With superman it doesn’t really bother me as much because I expect superman to be the strongest unless, someone like Martian manhunter is around but the CBS made kryptonians immune to TP. So I feel like J’ohn is more limited (which is smart for them). So even than Martian manhunter and superman are on more even footing.

That sounds kind of hyppocritical to be honest. Flash is supposed to be the fastest hero, Wonder Woman is supposed to be Superman's equal, and Green Lantern is supposed to have the mighties weapon in the universe, so why should it be just a problem if Martian Manhunter is around?

To my knowledge is it even a less integral part of Martian Manhunter's character, than for all these others.

There is also a difference between a character beating everyone and writers being disrespectful to characters.

Is there a big difference, the most stories where Flash, or Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern got offered to Batman's or Superman's shrines seemed very disrespectful to the characters?

I also don't like Superman's portrayal in the Supergirl CW show by the way, but normally is Superman 1 of the worst offenders after Batman into the opposite direction. DCEU Justice League's Superman wankery as example has probably a bigger general impact than the Supergirl CW show, impact is also why i would hestitate to say that the Superman portrayal of CW is worse than the Hulk portrayal of the MCU.

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#24 Posted by GhostCap (20 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

I get the CW is trying to empower women but I feel like maybe it would be better if they just avoided Batman and superman. No one wants to see there favourite characters torn down to build up others.

It’s also defeats the purpose of being empowering...

This.

Modern feminists hate men so much that they want to tear down every single male character in order to "empower" the women.

This is also why Thor 4 will most likely be shite.

Check out Ellen Ripley for a great example. Absolute badass strong female character that didn't need to stop to bash men every 10 seconds of a 2 minute trailer like CW Batwoman.

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#25 Edited by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad said:

@jashro44:

I have my issues with those Batman stories. I can respect when writers are at least trying to make Batman a strategist like mark waid rather than iron man 2.0 or just having Batman ear hits from Wonder Woman or whatever.

Batman's strategies against the Justice League rarely make any sense without pjobbing of the target though.

With superman it doesn’t really bother me as much because I expect superman to be the strongest unless, someone like Martian manhunter is around but the CBS made kryptonians immune to TP. So I feel like J’ohn is more limited (which is smart for them). So even than Martian manhunter and superman are on more even footing.

That sounds kind of hyppocritical to be honest. Flash is supposed to be the fastest hero, Wonder Woman is supposed to be Superman's equal, and Green Lantern is supposed to have the mighties weapon in the universe, so why should it be just a problem if Martian Manhunter is around?

To my knowledge is it even a less integral part of Martian Manhunter's character, than for all these others.

There is also a difference between a character beating everyone and writers being disrespectful to characters.

Is there a big difference, the most stories where Flash, or Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern got offered to Batman's or Superman's shrines seemed very disrespectful to the characters?

I also don't like Superman's portrayal in the Supergirl CW show by the way, but normally is Superman 1 of the worst offenders after Batman into the opposite direction. DCEU Justice League's Superman wankery as example has probably a bigger gener impact than the Supergirl CW show, impact is also why i would hestitate to say the Superman portrayal of CW is worse than the Hulk portrayal of the MCU.

No Caption Provided

Thank you, This

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#26 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (18830 posts) - - Show Bio

CW Superman

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#27 Posted by mimisalome (5877 posts) - - Show Bio

Both.

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#28 Posted by deactivated-5d71a0fc9c765 (205 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither one are pathetic.

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#29 Edited by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire said:
@killbilly said:

@tobymaguire: It's not "wanking" that has people upset. It's the fact that it's done for no other reason than to push a corrosive political agenda. Both the outcome and the intent matter.

Wanking is wanking no matter what and nobody have any right to use favorite characters as punching bag to make other character look good.The outcome is the same.

What corrosive political agenda was DC pushing when Wonder Woman who is suppose to be equal to Superman is humiliatingly defeated countless times in comics and movies by Superman, Batman and their villains.

They have the right to do whatever they want. Whether the end product justifies them doing it is the question.

None. Because Superman has always been portrayed as more powerful than Wonder Woman and Batman beats; men, women, demons, aliens and gods more powerful than him all the time regardless of their sex.

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#30 Posted by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire said:
@killbilly said:

@tobymaguire: It's not "wanking" that has people upset. It's the fact that it's done for no other reason than to push a corrosive political agenda. Both the outcome and the intent matter.

Wanking is wanking no matter what and nobody have any right to use favorite characters as punching bag to make other character look good.The outcome is the same.

What corrosive political agenda was DC pushing when Wonder Woman who is suppose to be equal to Superman is humiliatingly defeated countless times in comics and movies by Superman, Batman and their villains.

They have the right to do whatever they want. Whether the end product justifies them doing it is the question.

None. Because Superman has always been portrayed as more powerful than Wonder Woman and Batman beats; men, women, demons, aliens and gods more powerful than him all the time regardless of their sex.

But Supergirl and Batwoman can't be Mary Sues like Batman and Superman for obvious reasons (They are Wahmen). This happens in CWverse which means they have the right to do whatever they want.

Also, Wonder Woman was created to be the female version of Superman. Of course, DC nerfing her never had any corrosive political agenda.

Anyway why don't you go and live in Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Pakistan, Iran etc if you hate corrosive Political ideology

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#31 Edited by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire said:
@killbilly said:
@tobymaguire said:
@killbilly said:

@tobymaguire: It's not "wanking" that has people upset. It's the fact that it's done for no other reason than to push a corrosive political agenda. Both the outcome and the intent matter.

Wanking is wanking no matter what and nobody have any right to use favorite characters as punching bag to make other character look good.The outcome is the same.

What corrosive political agenda was DC pushing when Wonder Woman who is suppose to be equal to Superman is humiliatingly defeated countless times in comics and movies by Superman, Batman and their villains.

They have the right to do whatever they want. Whether the end product justifies them doing it is the question.

None. Because Superman has always been portrayed as more powerful than Wonder Woman and Batman beats; men, women, demons, aliens and gods more powerful than him all the time regardless of their sex.

But Supergirl and Batwoman can't be Mary Sues like Batman and Superman for obvious reasons (They are Wahmen). This happens in CWverse which means they have the right to do whatever they want.

Also, Wonder Woman was created to be the female version of Superman. Of course, DC nerfing her never had any corrosive political agenda.

Anyway why don't you go and live in Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Pakistan, Iran etc if you hate corrosive Political ideology

They can be Mary Sue's. Whether people feel the end result justifies them having been depicted that way is the question. Imo it doesn't for the reasons I've already laid out. If you want to actually address those we can begin to have an actual dialogue. But until then we'll just be going in circles.

Wonder Woman hasn't been depicted as Superman's equal in a majority of comics for the last several decades. Portraying her as inferior to Superman when that's how she's generally been depicted for many many years is not indicative of the people who made the movie having an agenda.

Because they have even worse ones.

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#32 Posted by Wrathofthebrad (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@killbilly:

Wonder Woman hasn't been depicted as Superman's equal in a majority of comics for the last several decades. Portraying her as inferior to Superman when that's how she's generally been depicted for many many years is not indicative of the people who made the movie having an agenda.

Is this a very elaborate way of joking?

If we go decades back was DC so blatantly sexist, that even Harvey Weinstein would feel uncomfortable with them.

Sure in modern times was it just incredible incompetence on DC's part, but that is still not the greatest excuse to work as incompetently with the movies, and the very clear agenda of Justice League was anyways to wank Superman.

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#33 Edited by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad said:

@killbilly:

Wonder Woman hasn't been depicted as Superman's equal in a majority of comics for the last several decades. Portraying her as inferior to Superman when that's how she's generally been depicted for many many years is not indicative of the people who made the movie having an agenda.

Is this a very elaborate way of joking?

If we go decades back was DC so blatantly sexist, that even Harvey Weinstein would feel uncomfortable with them.

Sure in modern times was it just incredible incompetence on DC's part, but that is still not the greatest excuse to work as incompetently with the movies, and the very clear agenda of Justice League was anyways to wank Superman.

Nope.

How is portraying Wonder Woman as being inferior in power to DC's most powerful hero sexist? If you meant that they were sexist in other ways, sure. I'm not denying that. But to suggest that the power Wonder Woman had in relation to Superman was somehow a result of sexism is as ridiculous as suggesting that Wonder Woman being portrayed as more powerful than normal human males was somehow sexist to men.

Again, I don't see how portraying Wonder Woman as inferior to Superman constitutes "incompetence" when pretty much all heroes, whether they were male or female, were portrayed in the same way.

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#34 Edited by Supermanfan1938 (1097 posts) - - Show Bio

What? Dont see how DC is being sexist cause Superman is strong, he is suppose to be the number one superhero. He's their golden boy.

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#35 Edited by Wrathofthebrad (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@killbilly:

Nope.

How is portraying Wonder Woman as being inferior in power to DC's most powerful hero sexist? If you meant that they were sexist in other ways, sure. I'm not denying that. But to suggest that the power Wonder Woman had in relation to Superman was somehow a result of sexism is as ridiculous as suggesting that Wonder Woman being portrayed as more powerful than normal human males was somehow sexist to men.

Because Wonder Woman is supposed to be Superman's equal, DC literally shits on the whole point of the character by making her inferior to Superman. This here is a quote of her creator about Wonder Woman's creation as a good example:

Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don't want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women's strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.

Your example with normal human males don't even makes sense, normal human males aren't supposed to be equal to Superheroes, and got also not created for that purpose.

Again, I don't see how portraying Wonder Woman as inferior to Superman constitutes "incompetence" when pretty much all heroes, whether they were male or female, were portrayed in the same way.

To portray a character who is not supposed to be inferior as integral part of her theme as inferior to Superman is extremely incompetent in my book, especially in combination with the half-hearted tries of DC to portray her as equal. And your example with other heroes is wrong, because Superman was barely ever truly the most powerful hero from DC, especially not in modern times.

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#36 Posted by Wrathofthebrad (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

What? Dont see how DC is being sexist cause Superman is strong, he is suppose to be the number one superhero. He's their golden boy.

DC as of now is just incompetent, the sexism part was decades ago.

Not for portraying Superman as strong, but for portraying Wonder Woman as weak in comparison. Or Flash as not faster. Or Green Lantern as........ I hope you get the gist.

Batman is DCs golden boy by the way, that is why even Superman gets sometimes portrayed in a disrespectful way for his sake.

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#37 Posted by jashro44 (55255 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad:

Batman's strategies against the Justice League rarely make any sense without jobbing of the target though.

As I said I can respect when writers try. I don't read comics the same way I do a battle forum. So it depends.

That sounds kind of hyppocritical to be honest. Flash is supposed to be the fastest hero, Wonder Woman is supposed to be Superman's equal, and Green Lantern is supposed to have the mighties weapon in the universe, so why should it be just a problem if Martian Manhunter is around?

To my knowledge is it even a less integral part of Martian Manhunter's character, than for all these others.

Your taking what I said out of context. I said "someone like martian manhunter". Not him exclusively

With martian manhunter specifically its because he has all of supermans powers plus a bunch of others so I can't suspend my disbelief enough where J'ohn should struggle with superman level characters. But even than J'ohn is more powerful but there are something's that superman can do that J'ohn can't. I think Clark is still an overall better hero even if J'ohn is logically more powerful. Like superman can inspire hope in a way Martian Manhunter just can't.

Also I never said superman should be the best at everything. To clarify my point I was saying superman is the greatest hero in DC and that's how it should be (in universe, obviously we all have our favorites). His only equals in this regard are batman and wonder woman (its why there the trinity). So yea Flash can be the fastest. Green Lantern can have the strongest will. But superman represents something and a part of his ability to inspire hope is the fact that superman is so powerful it does seemlike there is nothing he can't handle.

Is there a big difference, the most stories where Flash, or Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern got offered to Batman's or Superman's shrines seemed very disrespectful to the characters?

Depends what happened and how it was handled. There is a difference between being disrespectful and what should logically happen, happening. What the CW has done with superman is they introduced to build up Kara. Clark is often saying how the world doesn't need him with Kara around or how she is a better hero than him.

With Flash he is almost always portrayed as faster than superman. With wonder woman I think she is equal to Clark in significance and what she represents but not necessarily in terms of power.

I also don't like Superman's portrayal in the Supergirl CW show by the way, but normally is Superman 1 of the worst offenders after Batman into the opposite direction. DCEU Justice League's Superman wankery as example has probably a bigger general impact than the Supergirl CW show, impact is also why i would hestitate to say that the Superman portrayal of CW is worse than the Hulk portrayal of the MCU.

I don't see why superman's portrayal in other fictional works has any impact on how he is portrayed on the CW. I am judging CW superman on its own merits with what I've come to respect from a good portrayal of superman.

I will say I am one of the few people who didn't mind what happened in justice league. Because that is kind of how I think superman should be. Not the power stuff but even his affect on people. I haven't seen justice league in a while but as I recall Flash was basically really scared to be a super hero because of his lack of experience, and when superman showed up he put flash at east by making it a contest of who can save more people. Cybrog was robotic throughout the film but after he and superman separated the mother boxes they collapse and start laughing.

Its not about powers but its about superman's significance to the DC universe. At least for me. A superman or batman who is not significant to there universe is pathetic in my eyes.

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#38 Posted by jashro44 (55255 posts) - - Show Bio

Stop the mental gymnastics bro! Be straightforward like @killbilly: who straight up admit he does not like Wahmen being anywhere near men and Loves Batwankery which is perfectly logical

Respect @killbilly:

There is a right way and a wrong way to handle diversity. I would prefer it to be done the right way. Doing it the wrong way is more harmful to the cause. The CW mostly does good with diversity but sometimes they go to far.

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#39 Edited by buttersdaman000 (23234 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad said:

@jashro44:

I have my issues with those Batman stories. I can respect when writers are at least trying to make Batman a strategist like mark waid rather than iron man 2.0 or just having Batman ear hits from Wonder Woman or whatever.

Batman's strategies against the Justice League rarely make any sense without jobbing of the target though.

With superman it doesn’t really bother me as much because I expect superman to be the strongest unless, someone like Martian manhunter is around but the CBS made kryptonians immune to TP. So I feel like J’ohn is more limited (which is smart for them). So even than Martian manhunter and superman are on more even footing.

That sounds kind of hyppocritical to be honest. Flash is supposed to be the fastest hero, Wonder Woman is supposed to be Superman's equal, and Green Lantern is supposed to have the mighties weapon in the universe, so why should it be just a problem if Martian Manhunter is around?

To my knowledge is it even a less integral part of Martian Manhunter's character, than for all these others.

There is also a difference between a character beating everyone and writers being disrespectful to characters.

Is there a big difference, the most stories where Flash, or Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern got offered to Batman's or Superman's shrines seemed very disrespectful to the characters?

I also don't like Superman's portrayal in the Supergirl CW show by the way, but normally is Superman 1 of the worst offenders after Batman into the opposite direction. DCEU Justice League's Superman wankery as example has probably a bigger general impact than the Supergirl CW show, impact is also why i would hestitate to say that the Superman portrayal of CW is worse than the Hulk portrayal of the MCU.

I don't think this is his point. He's not saying Superman is or should be the best in every single category, bar none. And for that matter, he isn't even portrayed that way. Flash still beats Superman in races. Wonder Woman is still able to hold her own, and defeat him sometimes. Green Lantern still has the greatest weapon in the universe. However, Superman is still the greatest Superhero. Of all the heroes in the Justice League, Batman included, the one you expect to save the day is Superman. That's just who his character is. He's the ultimate hero. Final Crisis expresses this better than any other comic with a great meta story. You should read it if you haven't.

So, when someone like Superman is brought down just to uplift another character, his cousin at that, it completely diminishes and tramples all over the point of his character. Supergirl would have been better off keeping him away from the show because there's no way they could give him a modicum of the respect he deserves in a show like that.

It'll be like having Batgirl be a better detective than Batman in her show, making him look like an idiot when his character is literally built around being the greatest detective. It would completely invalidate his status in-universe, so why even include him? I'd rather they just do a gender swap. Brianna Wayne would be better than a universe where Bruce Wayne was second rate. The same goes for Superman; just give me Clair Kent instead.

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#40 Posted by jashro44 (55255 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#41 Posted by TheOneAboveLife (1466 posts) - - Show Bio

Clark isn't pathetic, Kara is just boosted on her stats due to being stuck in the phantom zone, that blue solar radiation really buffed her powers.

And for Endgame Hulk.... he isn't pathetic at all. He just lacks any real good feats.

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#42 Posted by Boby501 (571 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk

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#43 Edited by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad: Because Wonder Woman is supposed to be Superman's equal, DC literally shits on the whole point of the character by making her inferior to Superman. This here is a quote of her creator about Wonder Woman's creation as a good example:

Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don't want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women's strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.

And the point of Superman's character is that, despite being a being with unrivaled power, he chooses to abide by the laws and morales of beings he is no way beholden to because he truly believes in them. That Superman is a superhero not solely because he chooses to use his powers for good but because he does so for no other reason than that he wants to help people. The Boys is a great example of a world where superheroes do good for selfish reasons and not because they believe it's right.

I could just as easily say that the idea of there being a force of equal or greater power weakens that aspect of his character which is why other authors that came after Wonder Woman's creator didn't necessarily abide by the silly stipulation that Wonder Woman needed to be "as powerful as Superman" to "possess strength and power" and be an empowering character for girls.

Your example with normal human males don't even makes sense, normal human males aren't supposed to be equal to Superheroes, and got also not created for that purpose

My point is that other superheroes aren't meant to be more powerful than Superman either.

To portray a character who is not supposed to be inferior as integral part of her theme as inferior to Superman is extremely incompetent in my book, especially in combination with the half-hearted tries of DC to portray her as equal. And your example with other heroes is wrong, because Superman was barely ever truly the most powerful hero from DC, especially not in modern times.

Why would Wonder Woman's creator get to decide how a character is "supposed" to be portrayed in relation to other characters when it effects those characters to? Especially when the goal for that character can easily be achieved without ruining aspects of other characters. That's a rhetorical question btw, the answer is that she doesn't get to decide that and that's good because she shouldn't.

For the most that has been how he's portrayed, and ever if it weren't, the people who made the movies choosing to revive that aspect of his character for the movie is in no way a bad choice since it's a very powerful thematic message to deliver. It's essentially an echo of the Christ story.

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#44 Edited by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@killbilly said:

@wrathofthebrad: Because Wonder Woman is supposed to be Superman's equal, DC literally shits on the whole point of the character by making her inferior to Superman. This here is a quote of her creator about Wonder Woman's creation as a good example:

Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don't want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women's strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.

And the point of Superman's character is that, despite being a being with unrivaled power, he chooses to abide by the laws and morales of beings he is no way beholden to because he truly believes in them. That Superman is a superhero not solely because he chooses to use his powers for good but because he does so for no other reason than that he wants to help people. The Boys is a great example of a world where superheroes do good for selfish reasons and not because they believe it's right.

I could just as easily say that the idea of there being a force of equal or greater power weakens that aspect of his character which is why other authors that came after Wonder Woman's creator didn't necessarily abide by the silly stipulation that Wonder Woman needed to be "as powerful as Superman" to "possess strength and power" and be an empowering character for girls.

Your example with normal human males don't even makes sense, normal human males aren't supposed to be equal to Superheroes, and got also not created for that purpose

My point is that other superheroes aren't meant to be more powerful than Superman either.

To portray a character who is not supposed to be inferior as integral part of her theme as inferior to Superman is extremely incompetent in my book, especially in combination with the half-hearted tries of DC to portray her as equal. And your example with other heroes is wrong, because Superman was barely ever truly the most powerful hero from DC, especially not in modern times.

Why would Wonder Woman's creator get to decide how a character is "supposed" to be portrayed in relation to other characters when it effects those characters to? Especially when the goal for that character can easily be achieved without ruining aspects of other characters. That's a rhetorical question btw, the answer is that she doesn't get to decide that and that's good because she shouldn't.

For the most that has been how he's portrayed, and ever if it weren't, the people who made the movies choosing to revive that aspect of his character for the movie is in no way a bad choice since it's a very powerful thematic message to deliver. It's essentially an echo of the Christ story.

Oh God!/I can't stand the hypocrisy. Nerfing Wonder Woman and thus making her absolutely useless in Justice League good and not sexist

Wanking Supergirl in a show titled Supergirl. Bad and corrosive political agenda

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#45 Edited by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire said:
@killbilly said:

@wrathofthebrad: Because Wonder Woman is supposed to be Superman's equal, DC literally shits on the whole point of the character by making her inferior to Superman. This here is a quote of her creator about Wonder Woman's creation as a good example:

Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don't want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women's strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.

And the point of Superman's character is that, despite being a being with unrivaled power, he chooses to abide by the laws and morales of beings he is no way beholden to because he truly believes in them. That Superman is a superhero not solely because he chooses to use his powers for good but because he does so for no other reason than that he wants to help people. The Boys is a great example of a world where superheroes do good for selfish reasons and not because they believe it's right.

I could just as easily say that the idea of there being a force of equal or greater power weakens that aspect of his character which is why other authors that came after Wonder Woman's creator didn't necessarily abide by the silly stipulation that Wonder Woman needed to be "as powerful as Superman" to "possess strength and power" and be an empowering character for girls.

Your example with normal human males don't even makes sense, normal human males aren't supposed to be equal to Superheroes, and got also not created for that purpose

My point is that other superheroes aren't meant to be more powerful than Superman either.

To portray a character who is not supposed to be inferior as integral part of her theme as inferior to Superman is extremely incompetent in my book, especially in combination with the half-hearted tries of DC to portray her as equal. And your example with other heroes is wrong, because Superman was barely ever truly the most powerful hero from DC, especially not in modern times.

Why would Wonder Woman's creator get to decide how a character is "supposed" to be portrayed in relation to other characters when it effects those characters to? Especially when the goal for that character can easily be achieved without ruining aspects of other characters. That's a rhetorical question btw, the answer is that she doesn't get to decide that and that's good because she shouldn't.

For the most that has been how he's portrayed, and ever if it weren't, the people who made the movies choosing to revive that aspect of his character for the movie is in no way a bad choice since it's a very powerful thematic message to deliver. It's essentially an echo of the Christ story.

Oh God!/I can't stand the hypocrisy. Nerfing Wonder Woman and thus making her absolutely useless in Justice League good.

Wanking Supergirl in a show titled Supergirl. Bad

Considering I just addressed these "points" ( I'm being very generous by even jokingly associating your mess of word vomit with those ) I can tell you didn't bother to read the post before making a half-hearted response in an attempt at bait. Go back, try again and we'll see if you can actually muster up something that merits my efforts.

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#46 Edited by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: @jashro44:

@buttersdaman000 said:
@wrathofthebrad said:

@jashro44:

I have my issues with those Batman stories. I can respect when writers are at least trying to make Batman a strategist like mark waid rather than iron man 2.0 or just having Batman ear hits from Wonder Woman or whatever.

Batman's strategies against the Justice League rarely make any sense without jobbing of the target though.

With superman it doesn’t really bother me as much because I expect superman to be the strongest unless, someone like Martian manhunter is around but the CBS made kryptonians immune to TP. So I feel like J’ohn is more limited (which is smart for them). So even than Martian manhunter and superman are on more even footing.

That sounds kind of hyppocritical to be honest. Flash is supposed to be the fastest hero, Wonder Woman is supposed to be Superman's equal, and Green Lantern is supposed to have the mighties weapon in the universe, so why should it be just a problem if Martian Manhunter is around?

To my knowledge is it even a less integral part of Martian Manhunter's character, than for all these others.

There is also a difference between a character beating everyone and writers being disrespectful to characters.

Is there a big difference, the most stories where Flash, or Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern got offered to Batman's or Superman's shrines seemed very disrespectful to the characters?

I also don't like Superman's portrayal in the Supergirl CW show by the way, but normally is Superman 1 of the worst offenders after Batman into the opposite direction. DCEU Justice League's Superman wankery as example has probably a bigger general impact than the Supergirl CW show, impact is also why i would hestitate to say that the Superman portrayal of CW is worse than the Hulk portrayal of the MCU.

I don't think this is his point. He's not saying Superman is or should be the best in every single category, bar none. And for that matter, he isn't even portrayed that way. Flash still beats Superman in races. Wonder Woman is still able to hold her own, and defeat him sometimes. Green Lantern still has the greatest weapon in the universe. However, Superman is still the greatest Superhero. Of all the heroes in the Justice League, Batman included, the one you expect to save the day is Superman. That's just who his character is. He's the ultimate hero. Final Crisis expresses this better than any other comic with a great meta story. You should read it if you haven't.

So, when someone like Superman is brought down just to uplift another character, his cousin at that, it completely diminishes and tramples all over the point of his character. Supergirl would have been better off keeping him away from the show because there's no way they could give him a modicum of the respect he deserves in a show like that.

It'll be like having Batgirl be a better detective than Batman in her show, making him look like an idiot when his character is literally built around being the greatest detective. It would completely invalidate his status in-universe, so why even include him? I'd rather they just do a gender swap. Brianna Wayne would be better than a universe where Bruce Wayne was second rate. The same goes for Superman; just give me Clair Kent instead.

No you don't, This is definitely the reason why Justice League flopped and destroyed DCEU. And the fact you have no idea about what Wonder Woman is good at unlike Superman, Flash , Green Lantern. make it hilarious

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#47 Edited by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@killbilly said

And the point of Superman's character is that, despite being a being with unrivaled power, he chooses to abide by the laws and morales of beings he is no way beholden to because he truly believes in them. That Superman is a superhero not solely because he chooses to use his powers for good but because he does so for no other reason than that he wants to help people. The Boys is a great example of a world where superheroes do good for selfish reasons and not because they believe it's right.

Oh you forgot the Gods and other magical villains and hero who can have the unrivaled power hero for breakfast. Or the speedsters who can go back in time and murder him.

I could just as easily say that the idea of there being a force of equal or greater power weakens that aspect of his character which is why other authors that came after Wonder Woman's creator didn't necessarily abide by the silly stipulation that Wonder Woman needed to be "as powerful as Superman" to "possess strength and power" and be an empowering character for girls.

Which also made Wonder Woman , a useless character in the team.

Why would Wonder Woman's creator get to decide how a character is "supposed" to be portrayed in relation to other characters when it effects those characters to? Especially when the goal for that character can easily be achieved without ruining aspects of other characters. That's a rhetorical question btw, the answer is that she doesn't get to decide that and that's good because she shouldn't.

For the most that has been how he's portrayed, and ever if it weren't, the people who made the movies choosing to revive that aspect of his character for the movie is in no way a bad choice since it's a very powerful thematic message to deliver. It's essentially an echo of the Christ story.

You forgot the fact that Wonder Woman is literally female Christ , Child of God, created and sent to liberate humans from the Devil (Ares) and teach them about good. Unlike Man of Steel, Christ story in Wonder Woman worked.

So yeah Wonder Woman being powerful is just as important as Superman's character without which her story or character simply does not work.

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#48 Edited by buttersdaman000 (23234 posts) - - Show Bio

No you don't, This is definitely the reason why Justice League flopped and destroyed DCEU. And the fact you have no idea about what Wonder Woman is good at unlike Superman, Flash , Green Lantern. make it hilarious

Justice League flopped because it was trash

Wonder Woman fighting ability is what she excels in over Superman. I thought I made that clear enough when I said she's able to hold her own and defeat him sometimes. Anybody who reads comics knows she's defeated him through technique and skill. My bad for assuming.

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#49 Edited by KillBilly (3357 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire said:

@killbilly said

And the point of Superman's character is that, despite being a being with unrivaled power, he chooses to abide by the laws and morales of beings he is no way beholden to because he truly believes in them. That Superman is a superhero not solely because he chooses to use his powers for good but because he does so for no other reason than that he wants to help people. The Boys is a great example of a world where superheroes do good for selfish reasons and not because they believe it's right.

Oh you forgot the Gods and other magical villains and hero who can have the unrivaled power hero for breakfast. Or the speedsters who can go back in time and murder him.

I could just as easily say that the idea of there being a force of equal or greater power weakens that aspect of his character which is why other authors that came after Wonder Woman's creator didn't necessarily abide by the silly stipulation that Wonder Woman needed to be "as powerful as Superman" to "possess strength and power" and be an empowering character for girls.

Which also made Wonder Woman , a useless character in the team.

Why would Wonder Woman's creator get to decide how a character is "supposed" to be portrayed in relation to other characters when it effects those characters to? Especially when the goal for that character can easily be achieved without ruining aspects of other characters. That's a rhetorical question btw, the answer is that she doesn't get to decide that and that's good because she shouldn't.

For the most that has been how he's portrayed, and ever if it weren't, the people who made the movies choosing to revive that aspect of his character for the movie is in no way a bad choice since it's a very powerful thematic message to deliver. It's essentially an echo of the Christ story.

You forgot the fact that Wonder Woman is literally female Christ , Child of God, created and sent to liberate humans from the Devil (Ares) and teach them about good. Unlike Man of Steel, Christ story in Wonder Woman worked.

So yeah Wonder Woman being powerful is just as important as Superman's character without which her story or character simply does not work.

Considering how little effort you put into that attempt I'm currently considering whether or not I should bother responding to it. To be fair, the amount of effort I'd put into it would be even more minimal, but then, my time's worth more than yours'. Hmmmm. This is a tough one.

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#50 Edited by TobyMaguire (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000 said:
@tobymaguire said:

No you don't, This is definitely the reason why Justice League flopped and destroyed DCEU. And the fact you have no idea about what Wonder Woman is good at unlike Superman, Flash , Green Lantern. make it hilarious

Justice League flopped because it was trash

Wonder Woman fighting ability is what she excels in over Superman. I thought I made that clear enough when I said she's able to hold her own and defeat him sometimes. Anybody who reads comics knows she's defeated him through technique and skill. My bad for assuming.

You mean the 1996 battle written by feminist writor Gail Simone. It has been 23 years. Meanwhile I have lost times how many times Wonder Woman has been defeated and even killed by Superman.

Justice League flopped because he was OP compared rest of team.