Who’s got better striking power. DCEU Superman or McU Kurse?

Obviously Superman.

Supes easily.

Kurse.

@frankthetank40: It seems pretty clear to me that he was flying at mach speeds beforehand since he was breaking the sound barrier with every jump.

@thunderprince okay now I see but that is still very impressive in terms of how strong clark's body is.

@thunderprince: Some really great debating by you in this thread. I'm amazed

@apex_pretador: Thanks!

@thunderprince:

I'm not saying that Thor's mjolnir throw is better than Clark's strikes, I'm saying that Kurse overpowering Mjolnir is better than Clark's strikes. Considering the fact that Batman swung Superman into the pillars makes it less impressive. After all, you can easily swing an incredibly durable object through a concrete pillar much easier than throwing something into someone and having them go flying 20-30 meters bouncing off the ground, demolishing several stone pillars, and finally smashing into a car.

1. The Malekith feat isn't anywhere as good as Clark's and we can see that by the visuals alone, so there's no comparison.
2. The Batman example was just to show how you can use durable objects to smash through other durable objects even though you can't do it by yourself without using any weapons or anything. Unless you think concrete even holds a fraction of the durability Malekith does, that wasn't impressive. And please, be both saw that Malekith was sent far faster and with far more force than Batman swung Superman with.
3. Kurse never overpowered Mjolnir a single time. He re-directed it. Overpowering an incoming object would require that you actually put in more force than the object itself, that you completely stop its momentum and/or send the object flying back, such as the following examples below:

Kurse didn't stop Mjolnir in its path, he didn't send it flying back, nor did he overpower hit. He re-directed its trajectory, evident by the fact that Mjolnir went on to fly right through the stone it hit. Furthermore, the fact that Mjolnir was still charged up and still flying after Kurse hit it is further proof that he didn't overpower it once.

I never said that Thor threw his hammer casually in that scene, I said and I quote: First of all, Malekith was sent through three thick pillars after bouncing off the ground making him lose some of his momentum. The hit was also hard enough to make a shock wave capable of throwing nearby dark elves off their feat. To casually backhand something capable of doing that is easily equal to knocking over a couple trains.

Okay, my bad. I read that wrong.

I do think that a "Mjolnir throw would be enough to send Malekith flying more than 100 meters and then derail three 160-ton trains as a result of Malekith's impact".

I don't think it would replicate anywhere near that much force considering that he doesn't have a single feat where its force compares the force behind Superman's punch.

• When he swung Hulk with a fully powered Mjolnir strike, it didn't do anywhere near as much as Clark did to Nam-Ek.
• Neither did anything as intense happen when he struck Frost Giants
• Or Malekith (and don't say he caused a giant shockwave when he struck him, that was all lightning as the shockwave didn't go off instantly as Thor connected with Malekith, but instead a split second later)
• Nor when Vision struck Ultron with Mjolnir
• It never happened anything anywhere near as intense as Clark's when he bullrushed Loki with Mjolnir
• Neither when he tossed Mjolnir at the Destroyer
• Not against Iron Man
• Or any of the Chitauri

It's obvious by feats that Mjolnir strikes (without lightning) pale in comparison to Superman's striking power

Kurse did completely overpower Mjolnir with Thor in the GIF below.

Thor with Mjolnir*. His fist didn't even connect to Mjolnir. He struck Thor and Thor lost Mjolnir from his hand as a result. As a matter of fact, there was a cling-sound when he struck Mjolnir, but the same cling-sound wasn't made when Kurse struck a bullrushing Thor.

Cap has the strength to pull down a helicopter, I'm pretty sure that he could flip a car based on his feats. Smashing the ground with a sledgehammer is very different than smashing concrete pillars with a human sized object. A sledgehammer is applying a fairly medium amount of force to a small area, with a human sized object the force is more equally distributed across the entire column. And whether or not Malekith is more durable than a stone column doesn't change the fact that he would lose momentum by flying through three constructive columns. Not to mention the fact that he hit the ground first causing him to lose even more momentum. That feat alone isn't better than Superman's striking feat but overpowering that amount of force with a casual backhand is definitively better in my book.

The Cap point is irrelevant as long as you understood the point I was making. Also, I'd agree with the pressure on a specific area, etc. But let's not act like it's the same for Thor when it comes to concrete. Concrete is air in comparison to Thor's and Malekith's durability, or any high tier for that sake. Sending someone incredibly durable flying through concrete isn't impressive when discussing high tiers, like at all, and I seriously doubt it would stop their momentum to fly through a couple of concrete pillars. For example, Zod punched Superman hundreds of meters up in the air and smashed bunch of reinforced concrete:

What's impressive is that he sent Superman flying that far and that high away, not that he destroyed those little bits of concrete. You never hear anyone talk about how Zod busted up some concrete by punching Superman at it.

Do you see my point? I actually thought that Thor's hammer throw feat was impressive but now that I look at it, it's not impressive at all. Concrete, steel, etc. are pretty much air to any high tiers. If a mid-tier like for example Iron Man were to do that instead of Thor, I'd say that would be very impressive, however it's not for someone like Thor or Kurse if you're trying to compare them to Superman. As a matter of fact, just look at the mountain feat Superman has. He accidentally did more damage by falling than Thor did with a hammer throw intended to decapacitate his opponent. Just goes to show how ridiculously outpowered Superman has Kurse if re-directing Mjolnir's trajectory is his best feat.

Superman was flying at mach speeds just moments before he crashed into the mountain, he hadn't lost any of his momentum as evidenced by his diagonal flight path.

This is straight up false. Every single time Superman's gone supersonic, we've seen sonic booms. Sonic booms around his and other kryptonians' punches, sonic booms around his body when he flies (in all three of the movies he's been in). He wasn't even fully flying, so saying he was flying at mach speeds before that is ridiculous. He couldn't even fly before that, why do you think he fell?

Unlike Superman's scene, Mjolnir the full damage created by Mjolnir wasn't fully shown

And so Superman caused more damaged. We saw what happened. Mjolnir flew through the outer edge of the mountain and we saw the damage it caused. We also saw Superman hit the edge of a mountain and the impact of his body destroyed hundreds of tons worth of stone, splitting them into boulders. You're really stretching this argument when the evidence is clear; Superman did more damage by accident than Mjolnir did when charged to damage someone.

and Dark Elf stone is fairly durable considering the fact that the ground wasn't too damaged by a skyscraper sized ship crashing into it. This is the same ship that was literally mowing through the multiple meters of rock, and soil without a scratch.

Mjolnir hit the mountain, not the ground, the ship also fell down on the Aether. The fact that that giant boulder Kurse tossed broke into multiple pieces upon impact actually proves that that rock was weak, thus the stone wasn't as durable as you're trying to portray it. If the stone truly was as durable as stone in real life, it wouldn't have broken like that, which actually weakens your argument.

Kurse obviously emitted more force than the Dark Elf ships since the shield no-sold the ships and yet Kurse one-shotted them.

Okay, fair enough. But Superman already outdid that with a mere extension of his arm by one-shotting the wall inside the kryptonian ship.

Fair enough but Dark Elf ships also move much faster than Kryptonian was moving thus, they pack a lot of force into a much smaller package. With a kryptonian ship the force would be more equally distributed across the shield.

Move faster according to what? Because they're smaller? The kryptonian scout ship was shown zipping into orbit at mach speeds earlier on. Dark elf ships look like they move faster because they're smaller.

Here's the nearly skysraper sized scoutship crossing multiple city blocks in seconds.

In reality the speed difference isn't that much, however the durability difference is huge, with kryptonian material having a stronger durability.

Well, since we have established that Kryptonian metals and the more rock like substance that Clark smashed are of different durability, what proof do you have that Zod's scout ship was made of the rock like substance?

What proof do you have that Zod's scout ship is made of the rock like substance?

• In BvS, after Batman and Superman's fight, Superman went to visit Lex Luthor who was inside the Scout Ship. When Superman broke through the scout ship to see Lex, there were pieces of the substance on the ground after Clark cracked through it

• In Justice League, when Superman was revived and broke through the scout ship's floors, we could see that it was a rock-like substance he broke.

Because of this I think Superman's striking power is superior.

• The energy shield no-sold dark elf ships and Kurse shut them down with his punches in the prison
• Same dark elf ships mowed down concrete structures with ease

However:

• Superman effortlessly broke the rock-like substance with a mere extension of his arm
• Same material was durable enough to endure being smashed through 8-9 (it seems like 9 at the end) skyscrapers and completely wreck them without receiving any damage at all.

Let's be real here, not only is kryptonian material more durable, but Superman's is far more impressive because he did it without even trying while Kurse was landing haymakers on the energy shields he punched.

While skyscrapers are bigger than the stone structures the Dark Elf ships mowed through, the stone structures were completely solid while skyscapers are not. And considering the fact that Dark Elf ships tanked Asgardain bullets capable of punching massive holes in mountain sides, I think that a Dark Elf ship would definitely win a clash between a kryptonian ship.

Dude, there's no comparison to be made between splitting apart skyscrapers and concrete structures that are only a fraction of the size of the skyscrapers. The concrete structures the dark elf ships split apart were probably a couple hundred tons, if not thousand or potentially thousands of tons. Skyscrapers weigh hundreds of thousands of tons, and the concrete and steel are reinforced. Reinforced concrete is multiple times stronger than structural concrete (pillars, small structures, etc). Also, skyscrapers are also made of steel. Splitting apart one skyscraper with ease alone would prove that the kryptonian ship is stronger than an elf ship due to the size and weight alone. But splitting apart 8-9 skyscrapers and not even slowing down makes the scout ship so much more durable. This isn't even comparable nor is it debatable.

WW's shield isn't a mere ten inches, it covers her entire upper body. As I said unless her shield is ten inches in diameter then it was at an angle.

You didn't understand. You're saying that Doomsday hit the shield, that's wrong because:

1. Wonder Woman would have to have the shield in front of her for Doomsday to hit the shield instead
2. But we see a 10+ inch figure on her side, but her shield isn't 10+ inches thick, is it? It's probably not even an inch thick. This means she had it on her side, meaning she tanked a body shot.

How was it an angle? We have a straight and forward shot of them, there literally couldn't be any angles unless the perspective was shown from the left side or the right, it was shown from the middle.

Considering the fact that Amazons are at the very least two tonners ( although some calculations have put them up to thirty tons ) and weapons do increase striking power, I don't see why see wouldn't be hurt slightly by the hit. WW was barely dazed by the hit and kept on fighting like nothing happened moments afterwards.

his is WW after she went into god mode and she still couldn't hurt Ares using physical force alone.

She beat him by using her shield ability and by redirecting his lightning back at him, not by using her "newfound" durability or strength amp.

Again, being dazed for a moment by a strike from possible 30 tonner isn't a bad feat. You keep on treating it like she was hurt by a normal human. It certainly doesn't invalidate her other feats and is right in line with her other durability feats in the movie. Your grasping at straws to prove that WW wasn't hurt by the explosions but she simply was. Again, what durability feats does she have that proves that she received an durability amp?

The environment wasn't supposed to be damaged by the aether storm, it was supposed to be transformed into dark energy and it was accomplishing its goal.

Thor is known to fight through pain to get the job done. Thor has been stated to be weakened by dark energy, it was stated that the storm was made of dark energy. What more proof do you need?

Okay, this is all irrelevant now as I've proven my point in this thread.

What are you accusing me of? Look at any thread where I've argued for Kurse and you will see that casually is how I always described Kurse's actions in that scene. While Kurse was trying to kill Thor it is obvious by his body language that he wasn't trying incredibly hard to do so. Again, Thor is much more durable than Steppenwolf, they are not comparable in durability.

We can agree to disagree. However, Kurse did try to kill Thor, while Superman was toying around with Steppenwolf.

The Thor vs Kurse fight didn't last as long as most Kryptonian fights do due to Kurse's striking power. It was more of a stomp than a fight.

Point is, kryptonians casually cause massive amounts of destruction as a side effect of their fights, while Thorverse characters not so much.

Anyways. I've shown that Clark has superior striking power to Kurse with the kryptonian rock-like substance striking feat.

With momentum - ofcourse Clarke.

Just standing still, without using hypersonic arm movements I would say Kurse probably.

Are there any gifs where Kryptonoians are punching with the footwork of humans, grounded?

Speed, basically the rate at which your muscles twitch and move, obviously play a huge role in the force of the strike. Lower the speed and the momentum, and you strike a lot softer..

Superman.

Surprised to see the voters are near even? What's changed?

*says we need to use feats to determine striking power*

*proceeds to use Hulk's feats to justify Kurse's striking power*

@eredin12: You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence again. You said we need to use feats then proceed to use scaling. How does TDW Kurse scale to Ragnarok Hulk? That's honestly laughable. And Superman has way better feats than Hulk and Kurse anyways so you literally have no point.

@eredin12: Hulk did get amped during his time on Sakaar. You have no point once again. You don't want to debate because proving you wrong is as easy as turning over a hand for me. I'm pretty sure you don't even watch the movies.

@odimm: Then aren't just opinions though, Eredin purposely low balls the DCEU Characters to gain attention, then has the nerve to talk down on other debaters and call them biased. Then, he chickens out of any cav that a user challenges him to because "I'm not facing someone that thinks that the World Engine is that impressive "leviathan", "salty fanboy", "supermanforever." It is just a fountain of lowballing and excuses with him.

Just to inform you that he believes that Abomination has better striking than Zod.

@eredin12:

easily, Supermans striking is extremly overrated,

Jeez you believe that Iron Man and Abomination have better striking than Superman....

sending Zod flying 300 meters is nothing, Hulk did same to a multi-ton object with the casual backhand( meaning feat is 30 times better based on that alone)

Oh right? The feat is used in actual debates and CaVs so....

sending DD flying hundreds of meters is good but he did it with the loot of momentum and by the help of flight

He only needed like two seconds to do it, you didn't counter anything here.

we need to compare that to Hulks Surtur feat where he pushes billions of tons at supersonic/hypersonic speed with punch, whcih is agian much better, so even Hulk hits harder than Clark

Is Hulk fighting here? Kurse doesn't scale to Hulk nor he has a super leaping ability not he can replicate that overrated feat.

Again, show me one feat that equals World Engine's durability. The World Engine tanked falling from orbit at least at hypersonic speed and destroyed the entire surface of the island, created a dust long shockwave and obliterated a large part of a mountain.

And for the trillionth time, Clark's speedblitz destroyed the World Engine, ripped it into three pieces. The landing impact could not do that, which means Superman outputted more force than the impact which had multi city block level+ of damage output, while at the same time bypassing the gravity beam that was sending huge energy waves through the planet itself increasing its mass in the process, and also displace thousands if not millions of tons of water upon activation. Do you get it now? The WE feat is more impressive than punching TDW Thor, by a trillion miles.

Superman bullrush on Zod was powerful enough to destroy thousands of square meters of solid concrete. And while some argue that it was a shared feat, Superman, blatantly overpowered Zod in the clash, since Superman was moving forward bullrushing Zod directly afterward. And the official Novelization even confirmed that Superman bull-rushed Zod into the building.

Why it's insanely impressive? A few seconds later a weaker Zod punched Superman clean through a large highrise hard enough to destroy the entire building and with enough force that Superman continued flying and smashed into another skyscraper. Every single punch from MoS Superman or Adapted Zod is canonically above large building level. We can clearly see that Superman was sent directly, so you can't even lowball with the "collapse" argument. Kurse has exactly zero feats on this level.

There's also the fact that Superman & Zod were able to make a city-wide shockwave thunderclap and he was able to destroy construction cranes (which is 100% canon and not contradicted since his best striking feat happened when he was canonically weaker and weakened at the same time). Yet, Superman overpowered Zod in a striking contest.

They're canon. I don't care about your denial, we know that they're powerful enough to destroy cranes and make shockwaves etc.

There's zero argument for Kurse hitting harder:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/who-punches-harder-dceu-zod-or-mcu-kurse-2040304/

People have already changed their minds on this debate.

@eredin12:

The novel is the only canon when it does not contradict movie when it does it is not canon, period

Hulk catching an RPG or Thor busting the leviathan directly happened in Tie-In yet they're canon. So is the city wide thunderclap and crane feat since nothing contradicts them.

Many people in this thread think Kruse has better striking power, so clearly there are arguments for him, not evreyone wanks DCEU

This was when Kurse was wanked, in fact I've shown you the Zod vs Kurse thread or the Doomsday vs Kurse thread where it was generally accepted that they hit harder.

Not quite, people who think that Kruse htis harder still do, DCEU fans would belvie that Zod hits harder even if Kurse busted sun itself, that is how things are, and as i told you before i dont care about the general opinion on a thread, that is not an argument, lets just agree to disagree

You could be honest and admit that Kurse has zero feats comparable to the World Engine, by feats they all hit harder.

Doomsday's punch > Superman's bullrush>Thanos punch > Hulk's bullrush => Superman/Zod casual strike > Hulk's punch > Iron Man's amped hits> Kurse's punches. It's not even close.

@eredin12:

Thing is nothing contradicts them, in MOS we saw evrey part of Superman vs Zod fight and that just never happend, which makes it non-canon

This is just wrong. In The Avengers those feat never happened and it's like a statement on their capacities. The fight could be extended or it could have been in slow motion (it was confirmed).

As i told you i never cared for the general opinion that is not evidnece and as i said lets just agree to disagree, i dont care how many times you try to write that Superman is stronger than Hulks or as strong as his bullrush that does not make it so and is not convincing at all to me, so lets agree to disagree

I've never said that Superman is stronger than Hulk since Hulk has the physical advantage. You brought up a feat that Kurse can't replicate and it happened movies later by a different character to prove that he hits harder? Seriously...

@eredin12:

Not really, in avengers we do not see Thor loot of time, many thigns he does ar of the screen, that could happend there while in MOS we saw their entire fight on-screen and this just did not happend, in the novel they where geting bloodied literally

The script doesn't say anything about these feats regarding Leviathans etc. Also, their fight was extended and i can see the argument for ignoring the locksafe feat but the other feats are 100% legit and used. I wouldn't use the locksafe in a CaV but the other are legit.

It was said to be in slow motion i sense that they move much faster and are just slowed down so that we can see( cinematic timing) but no nothing suggest that it was any longer, we saw the entire fight on screen from beginning to end and that just never happend, its that simple

Not really since Snyder said that Nam-Ek killed a soldier off screen so we don't know if when Zod sent Superman into buildings with a throw, he could've punched something.

Well you said he hits harder which is what i meant, and i just disagree with that

Hulk has impressive striking feats such as the Leviathan or Hulkbuster yes but Superman punching Doomsday into space and the Building blow are comparable at worst or better.

As i said to you many times its irrelevant how many movies time that happend later since Hulk never got amped you know what amp means?Something some energy hits you, something mutates you and you become strogner that never happend to Hulk that is why Kruse scales to him from beating he gave to Thor, but as i said we will agree to disagree about that

It doesn't work like that since Hulk did actually draw blood with a single punch over Thor. Now, weakened or not or anything else Kurse doesn't have a super leaping ability nor he has any feat to suggest he can rock Surtur (which is very impressive and comparable to any Superman strike except the WE).

Thanos scales by feats, far above Hulk and I never said that he's weaker since I only care about feats and not about DC or Marvel and feats prove that without bullrush, Thanos is above Superman.

@eredin12:

Its irrelevant if it did or did not, nothing contradicts it which is my point, things change from movies to script, so no their fight was not extended, those feats just did not happend in movies

And? It's like a statement. We know they can do it, same things works for MCU feats.

He could not because the scene that novel portrays is not about Zod randomly punching something into orbit but abotu then fighting in some bank and Clark making him bleed, breaking his lip and then Zod doing that, that did not happend when Zod threw him we saw Clark entire time

I'm talking in general.

Yeah that was weakened Thor, not on his normal level

Not really.

its better than any Supermans strike including WE but we will agree to disagree about that and while he does not have that feat fact that he hurt Thor as much as Hulk did (non-wekaned one) if not mroe shows that his hits are comperable, and Kruse does have super leaping, that is not separate power but the result of Hulks strength which is inferior to Kurse

LOL! When did Kurse show super leaping ? It's been called as his ability so Thanos nor Kurse can actually jump in orbit and punch someone.

To be fair Kurse never finished Thor. He had him rocked and then Loki intervened.

Hulk is the only character to actually knock Thor unconscious on camera.

supes ez

@eredin12:

And since movie contradicts novel that statment becomes non-canon so they cannot do it

This literally doesn't prove anything.

He really was, you are disagreeing with official canon now

Uh? Let's use the same logic = It didn't happen in the movie.

He does not need to show it, since the source of that power is strength and Kurse is strogner, sure super leaping is Hulks ability just like super momentum is Flashs, but a source of that ability is his strength just like speed is soruce of super momentum for Flash, so anyone as strong as him can do same as for WE we will agree to dsiagre

Hulk overpowered Ragnarok Thor and has better strength feats than Kurse and that's an ability that Kurse has never shown. I will not scale Faora to the WE because it's as wrong as scaling Kurse to the Surtur feat.

He did not knock him out, even after last punch Hulk gave him in arena Thor screamed in pain, watch in in slow motion i did more than few times, Thor clearly screams after last punch, he was cuath up in combination but hew as not knocked out

Didn't Kryptonian king prove that? I disagree with him but it's clear that Thor was boosted so Hulk was actually hurting him with these strikes.

@eredin12: ok

@kryptonianking88: No, that's not how feats works mate. Thor up to TDW had zero feats worth bringing up in term of blunt force durability.

I'll never understand CV obsession with this fodder servant that had two minutes worth of feats.

@sufferedtoker:

Thor TDW scales to his later feats, unless you’re arguing his power up made him 1000x more durable - from tanking Iron Man’s punches to scaling to big nuke level Thanos

Easily superman

Per the tie in bvs comic

Sup can easily with a strike derail an entire speeding bullet train

@kryptonianking88: It doesn't work like that, if you get better feats = more powerful. And Iron Man's punches are not impressive nor does Kurse scale to a feat that Thor is not even able to do and it happened 15 movies later by another villain.

Okay, let's go feat-by-feat.

1. World Engine feat

Let's see what Kurse has to match it.

Thor punches harder than QS because he's a God and his muscles are made of cotati metal fibres instead of human muscle fibres, it's got nothing to do with weight! Thor is simply that strong. If you lower the momentum you strike softer=fact

Why are you pretending to disagree when you just used the same logic in another post ? XD

@eredin12 said:

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@eredin12: then you misunderstood my post..I didn't say that a character that punches faster hits harder, but if that same character punches faster his strike is amplified. So if Kurse had the speed of Superman his strikes would be off the charts. Right now he punches are so slow, and yet they still pack so much power, which just goes to show how impressive and strong Kurse is.

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Btw Gamora did compare his muscles to metal fibres, and muscle fibres is what defines your strength, that's why a 60 kg chimpanzee is stronger than a 150 kg human. If you stop hitting the gym your fibres weaken and so does your power.