Who's a better CBM feminist? Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel?

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#1 Edited by StaticSpeedster (2817 posts) - - Show Bio
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#2 Posted by HERMES1220 (648 posts) - - Show Bio

WW tbh. Aspects of her personality were just a lot more palatable when compared to Captain Marvel.

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#3 Posted by Geraldofvengerberg (669 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are feminist. What is even better feminist mean? Both the movies choose to hide feminism to be just generic comic book movies while marketing heavily on feminism.

As a Wonder Woman fan, it was sad their glossed over the feminist origin of Amazons.

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#4 Edited by Ready_4_Madness (17592 posts) - - Show Bio

@geraldofvengerberg: what’s a generic CBM? And WW feminism wasn’t on the nose imo, it just felt like a superhero movie and the hero happens to be a female.

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#5 Posted by Geraldofvengerberg (669 posts) - - Show Bio

@ready_4_madness:

@geraldofvengerberg: what’s a generic CBM? And WW feminism wasn’t on the nose imo, it just felt like a superhero movie and the hero happens to be a female.

That is a generic CBM.

There was just few Jokes about how woman are mistreated so yay. Feminism was next to nil.

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#6 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (17592 posts) - - Show Bio

@geraldofvengerberg: what makes it a generic superhero movie?

And when was WW ever marketed as a feminist movie?

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#7 Edited by Geraldofvengerberg (669 posts) - - Show Bio

@ready_4_madness said:

@geraldofvengerberg: what makes it a generic superhero movie?

And when was WW ever marketed as a feminist movie?

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Wonder Woman was created to be a feminist icon of comics and the mother of all super heroines including CM. If WW can't deal with feminist themes then Who will.

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#8 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (17592 posts) - - Show Bio

@geraldofvengerberg: so because the character is a feminist, every single story about her has to be about that one topic?

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#9 Edited by Geraldofvengerberg (669 posts) - - Show Bio

@ready_4_madness said:

@geraldofvengerberg: so because the character is a feminist, every single story about her has to be about that one topic?

Her and Amazons origin story definitely had to be

Plus her villains have to do with Gender politics

Ares, many Greek Gods and her villains are misogynist

Circe and some tribe of Amazons are misandrists.

So yeah Gender equality and hate.while not being a central theme of every story was still a major part of WW

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#10 Posted by Richubs (6559 posts) - - Show Bio

The better role model is the ones that doesn't shove into your face that it's trying to be a role model.

WW didn't have any of that really but I can't think of anything outrageously bad with Captain Marvel either.

However the behavior of the actor also effects the character clearly and WW wins it simply because Gal Gadot doesn't try to forcefully tell you that Diana is a role model, she shows why Diana is one.

Captain Marvel didn't do a lot that'd be very inspiring and while she wasn't bad she doesn't have any scenes that cement her as a role model either. And Brie Larson still loves to shove it in our faces that she's a role model.

WW wins.

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#11 Posted by Rockette (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana does it without being a biatch about it. I'd be a Hell of a lot more apt to listen to Diana vs Carol, hands down.

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#12 Edited by TobyMaguire (1059 posts) - - Show Bio
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@richubs: Yeah a model who married a millionaire and suddenly starts getting casted in big Hollywood franchises or an actress who worked since she was a child and climbed the entertainment industry through Disney movies, TV shows, indie movies, won awards,

did Short term 12, did not get even an Oscar nomination inspite of her deserving it

Did Room, got Oscar nomination and Won

,And only then began to get casted in big hollywood movies!

Hmm. Definitely Gal.

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#13 Posted by Richubs (6559 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire:

Brie's accomplishments are great. She's even a much better actress but her attitude and behavior is not role model worthy at all.

Hve you seen what she posted after Stan Lee's death and then deleted it when it turned out to be very stupid.

And it's not as if Gal hasn't done anything. She has served in the military and has a glowing personality unlike Brie.

And even though I said that actors and actresses have an impact on the character they're still secondary. The character has to be good as well. However even though I didn't dislike Carol's character she didn't do anything that'd make her a better role model than Diana.

Diana has her character defects that spawned after her own movie sure, but her overcoming them is also inspiring.

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#14 Posted by agent41 (15962 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs: Yeah a model who married a millionaire and suddenly starts getting casted in big Hollywood franchise or an actress who worked since she was a child and climbed the entertainment industry through Disney movies, TV shows, indie movies, won awards,

did Short term 12, did not get even an Oscar nomination inspire of being her best role

Did Room, got Oscar nomination and Won

,And only then began to get casted in big hollywood movies!

I am not saying Brie is a good role model but Gal seriously! Lol.

Right. Because Gal did nothing on her own. She just married a rich guy.

What about her time in the military? She enlisted as a combat instructor. And was this knowledge in combat and weapons that got her a role in Fast And Furious. She also went to college. Since her time as a model she has come a long way. She is now a hollywood star. And has been using that position to get more involved humanitarian causes.

And i don't think this topic is about the acresses. It is about their roles in a cbm. It is asking people which one do we think is a better feminist cbm.

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#15 Posted by TobyMaguire (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: In Israel everybody have to enlist in military. It is not really a choice. We are talking about acting. She had very big combat role in fast and Furious. Her entire role in Fast 4 was trying to seduce Vin Diesel character while wearing no bra, there was no combat scene.

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#16 Posted by The_Swaggot (60 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman captured it better because while she was still a strong female character, she still had her vulnerable moments (like the no-man’s-land scene). CM was just too stony-faced and emotionless. She never showed any signs of weakness or fear which IMO makes her character very bland.

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#17 Edited by TobyMaguire (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs: If Brie was an Israeli she would also be in military, it is not really a choice. So it can't be considered a quality

Gal did not get trolled like Brie did. That is one of the main reason she is always defensive. Look at her interviews before September 2018, you will see the difference

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#18 Posted by agent41 (15962 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: In Israel everybody have to enlist in military. It is not really a choice. We are talking about acting. She had very big combat role in fast and Furious. Her entire role in Fast 4 was trying to seduce Vin Diesel character while wearing no bra, there was no combat scene.

And? she still achieved things on her own, and put her experience in the military to good use.

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#19 Posted by TobyMaguire (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: She will put it to good use when she does stunts like Keanu Reeves. Hope she does something like that in future

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#20 Posted by Richubs (6559 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire:

Brie got trolled because of her statements. She didn't say stupid shit because she was being trolled.

She was being trolled because she said stupid shit.

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#21 Posted by TobyMaguire (1059 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by EmmaFrostXmen (3383 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman Stomps

Feminism is about equality, so showing a female doing what male superheroes do it exactly what it’s about. Actually making its central marketing campaign about being a girl superhero is terrible and it’s truly pathetic.

Also anyone saying there was no female empowerment in the movie look at the “No Man’s Land” fight scene which is all about empowering women in a way that shows her doing things superheroes do (saving \ helping people)

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#23 Edited by WollfMyth209 (17314 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are pretty good at being marketable feminists.

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#24 Posted by Richubs (6559 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire:

Everything she says about Captain Marvel.

Shoving in feminism where it isn't required. Making insensitive posts about deceased people.

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#25 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17902 posts) - - Show Bio

@ready_4_madness:

@ready_4_madness said:

@geraldofvengerberg: what’s a generic CBM? And WW feminism wasn’t on the nose imo, it just felt like a superhero movie and the hero happens to be a female.

That is a generic CBM.

There was just few Jokes about how woman are mistreated so yay. Feminism was next to nil.

Why are you holding it to the standard of being a feminist film? The movie isn't supposed to tackle and explore feminist themes. If it tried to explore themes of feminism, and failed, I would understand your argument, but that wasn't the point.

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#26 Posted by GateOfBabylon (4749 posts) - - Show Bio

WW, no contest.

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#27 Edited by TobyMaguire (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen said:

Wonder Woman Stomps

Feminism is about equality, so showing a female doing what male superheroes do it exactly what it’s about. Actually making its central marketing campaign about being a girl superhero is terrible and it’s truly pathetic.

Also anyone saying there was no female empowerment in the movie look at the “No Man’s Land” fight scene which is all about empowering women in a way that shows her doing things superheroes do (saving \ helping people)

Lol, Wonder Woman marketing campaign was the same.It was marketed as first female Superhero It's just nobody was excited because of BvS. And SS and did not get much attention Look up at above pictures of WW marketing campaign. Lol.

AMBASSADOR OF WOMEN AND GIRLS EMPOWERMENT.

Who is the Ambassador of Men and Boys empowerment? What about it Wonder Woman

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#28 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17902 posts) - - Show Bio

@staticspeedster: I love you bro but this thread is pretty vague. I'm not entirely sure what you're asking lol. Are you asking which movie did the better job in exploring feminist themes? Which movie did more for female representation in comic book movies and cinema? Which is the better character overall? I'm honestly confused lol.

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#29 Posted by TobyMaguire (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs said:

@tobymaguire:

Everything she says about Captain Marvel.

Shoving in feminism where it isn't required. Making insensitive posts about deceased people.

Making vague statements again.

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#30 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (17592 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire: it wasn’t marketed as the first female superhero movie because it’s not, that would be false advertising. You guys are making statements about the movie’s marketing with no evidence.

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#31 Posted by Geraldofvengerberg (669 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: So you are telling me a comic character created as feminist propaganda for children whose origin and lore is feminist

You are telling such a character movie is not suppose to be Feminist!

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#32 Posted by Richubs (6559 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire:

I can't just start linking every interview she's been in now. As an example of what I'm talikg about she's giving an interview with Chris Hemsworth and Don Cheadle and one of them says

"Oh, so you plan on being the next RDJ for the franchise" in a supportive manner and she responds with

"No I'll be the first me".

It's clear what they're talking about, how RDJ effected the MCU and how he propelled the movies into success but she still has to saw awkward things like that.

If it were a woman that had set off the MCU they'd have taken her name, its quite obvious it had nothing to do with him being a man but she still dragged feminism in there. And this happens every noe and then in her interviews making her irritating.

As for the deceased person part look at her post about Stan Lee.

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#33 Posted by TobyMaguire (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs: Is it RDJ or Tom Cruise. Because I am pretty sure it is Tom Cruise. They were talking about Stunts and Hemsworth called her next Tom Cruise. That interview after she got Trolled, after Captain Marvel during Avengers Endgame promotion.

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#34 Edited by StaticSpeedster (2817 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey said:

@staticspeedster: I love you bro but this thread is pretty vague. I'm not entirely sure what you're asking lol. Are you asking which movie did the better job in exploring feminist themes? Which movie did more for female representation in comic book movies and cinema? Which is the better character overall? I'm honestly confused lol.

Ily you too brother but this was supposed to be bait ish tbh idk how this got 33 posts. But now we're here, what I meant was, who's a better role model and such? If either of them could represent "feminism" who would it be?

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#35 Posted by Bayman007 (2209 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman is the bestest. My choice has nothing to do with feminists though...

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#36 Posted by CocaColaMan (1021 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone.

I introduce to you..........

The 2019 world!!!!!

Here you can find women who are so obnoxiously needy for equality (by the way, equality is a synonym for superiority in 2019) that people are aggravated to the point that every female CBM character automatically is a feminist propaganda machine.

MURICA’!

Anyway, Wonder Woman by a landslide. She never actually felt like a feminist to me, albeit I never saw WW. I did read a book recently, though, on her, and she’s feminism done right. She’s been born and raised to believe against the World of Man and she also happens to be one of the strongest people on the planet. She is, by far, the best female superhero.

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#37 Edited by Geraldofvengerberg (669 posts) - - Show Bio

@cocacolaman: These characters were created way before 2019,WW in 1940 and CM to be WW clone in 1977. They were created as feminists. Even today Superheros movie is not just by America by the entire world. Captain Marvel made most of its box office outside America like China, India,Mexico, Brazil, Indonesia etc.

The book you read is trash. In the movie, WW is taught the world of Men is bad because of Ares and Amazons have the weapon that can kill him save the world of Men.

In the comics, the entire Amazon mission is to stop war and teach peace and love to men.

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#38 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17902 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: So you are telling me a comic character created as feminist propaganda for children whose origin and lore is feminist

You are telling such a character movie is not suppose to be Feminist!

If people choose to watch the Wonder Woman and interpret feminist subtext from it, that's fine. But I do not believe a Wonder Woman movie needs to go out of it's way to explore feminist themes. Superman was created by two Jewish authors and his origin is supposed to represent immigration and xenophobia. That doesn't mean I expect a Superman movie to be about immigration and xenophobia.

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#39 Posted by Supermanthor (22700 posts) - - Show Bio

WW

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#40 Posted by Richubs (6559 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire:

No not that one.

Must've seen a different interview because Chris called her the RDJ of upcoming MCU.

Even if it was Tom Cruise its still not a reason to keep pushing in feminism in a normal topic. It gets irritating.

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#41 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17902 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey said:

@staticspeedster: I love you bro but this thread is pretty vague. I'm not entirely sure what you're asking lol. Are you asking which movie did the better job in exploring feminist themes? Which movie did more for female representation in comic book movies and cinema? Which is the better character overall? I'm honestly confused lol.

Ily you too brother but this was supposed to be bait ish tbh idk how this got 33 posts. But now we're here, what I meant was, who's a better role model and such? If either of them could represent "feminism" who would it be?

Haha I see. I think both of them are pretty flawed, but I'd give the edge to Wonder Woman. Captain Marvel is.... a little more mean-spirited, whereas Wonder Woman IMO represents optimism and purity better than virtually every other CBM character.

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#42 Posted by Geraldofvengerberg (669 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: Except that is not what happened. The movie literally rewrites origin of WW and Amazons different from comics to avoid feminism.

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#43 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17902 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: Except that is not what happened. The movie literally rewrites origin of WW and Amazons different from comics to avoid feminism.

In what way?

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#44 Posted by TobyMaguire (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs: What a coincidence? So Hemsworth compare her to legends like Tom Cruise and RDJ in different interviews and she gives the same reply. Could Marvel marketing have anything to with it.

I watched it on big news website where it read watch Brie Larson respond to Hemsworth calling her next Tom Cruise

The Stanley post was bad, there is no defending her on that. Honestly I think she may be little autistic after seeing that post or she was on drugs or drunk.

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#45 Posted by Gaoron (9555 posts) - - Show Bio

WW isn't a feminist, she's a good written character not forced into the story for diversity like Carol.

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#46 Posted by BalancedTruth (1452 posts) - - Show Bio

Ridiculous

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#47 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17902 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs said:

@tobymaguire:

No not that one.

Must've seen a different interview because Chris called her the RDJ of upcoming MCU.

Even if it was Tom Cruise its still not a reason to keep pushing in feminism in a normal topic. It gets irritating.

Chris said "Tom Cruise" not "RDJ" and Brie's response was a joke. She literally turns to the interviewer and gives him a big smile immediately after saying it.

Loading Video...

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#48 Edited by EmmaFrostXmen (3383 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire: ‘Women’ was not it’s central marketing campaign lmao. Saying it’s the first female superhero movie is factual, it’s not like their just marketing female supremacy.

Captain Marvel was just saying bullshit like “a HERo” which is stupid, and basically trying to convey that since Carol is a woman she is somehow different from the men (which isn’t feminism)(feminism = equality).

Wonder Woman was appointed as a UN ambassador (weird, but cool) because she is an empowering female character

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#49 Posted by Geraldofvengerberg (669 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: Original, Amazons were an advanced female civilisation who isolated from mankind after Hercules defeated them through treachery. Diana was created from a statue sculpted under the guidance of Goddess Athena and given life by Goddess Aphrodite. Diana to protect the world from evil and spread Amazon ideal of peace, equality and love into the world.

The movie is not really comfortable with feminism in WW, the concept of Diana and Amazons not having Fathers or not worshipping male Gods, a female utopia which is advanced than Mankind.

So the movie give her and Amazons Daddy Zeus, a character very famous for his actions with woman in Greek mythology. Diana power comes from her Daddy instead of female Goddesses and Amazon training.

Amazons are shown as civilisation stuck in 300 BC and don't have advanced technology or Magic. Atlantis is still has both and we saw that in Aquaman.

Wonder Woman who was created to be female version of Superman is so nerfed she can't even fly.

This is a blatant revision to remove feminism and make her Generic character.

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#50 Posted by TobyMaguire (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobymaguire: ‘Women’ was not it’s central marketing campaign lmao. Saying it’s the first female superhero movie is factual, it’s not like their just marketing female supremacy.

Captain Marvel was just saying bullshit like “a HERo” which is stupid, and basically trying to convey that since Carol is a woman she is somehow different from the men (which isn’t feminism)(feminism = equality).

Wonder Woman was appointed as a UN ambassador (weird, but cool) because she is an empowering female character

You literally called Captain Marvel a Mary Sue, then argued in every other thread how Scarlett Witch will beat her. A Mary Sue

Then the above statement you made from getting triggered by single word HERo. Are you triggered by Genders.

Are you triggered by IronMAN, spiderMAN,a superMAN. Are they different from Woman.

Why does Wonder Woman have WOMAN in her title? Is she different from men

Does APACHE HELICOPTER trigger you too? Is the helicopter superior than men and Woman?