Who is the most Mary Sue character ever?

Somebody please explain how Batman, Superman, and Wolverine are Mary Sues. Go ahead, I'll wait.

@masterdetective: and Gary stu's.

I’m guessing I got the definition straight

-Superman

-Rey

-franklin richards

-goku

-wally west

-Kyle rayner

Not true. Characters like Rey dont have much of a fanbase and its not like anybody can really say her character is appealing.

@kairan1979: So a Mary Sue is a character so "perfect" people just don't like them? If that's the case, Superman. His character design is too perfect and boring for me, and he's the typical nice guy. Dude's so special he's literally nothing to look at.

This. Rey is terrible and I have yet to meet a single person from either side of the toxic SW fanbase that really likes her. I know people who like Daisey but not Rey

@edgelord666: Not gonna argue for Rey since I’m not a Star Wars fan, but I’m just gonna point out that I chose the word “usually” (i.e. not all the time) for a specific reason.

@firestarlord73194: Goku is not even close to being a mary sue, he actually trains for what he obtained, if anyone is a sue in DB it's Gohan or from less known characters Caulifa.

@gaoron: maybe I’m missing the definition here, it matters how someone gets there powers? Because goku seems to pull powers straight out from nowhere consistently

@firestarlord73194: Goku never pulled techniques out of nowhere, he either learns them from someone or copies them from someone else doing it while Mary Sues like Rey are good at everything without need of training or earlier exposure. You could say Goku copying techniques is a mary sue trait but there are many other characters within the verse who do exact same - Tien, Cell, Buu etc. which makes it less unique and less of a mary sue thing. And yes how characters get what they have heavly depends whenever they are sues or not, that's one of the most important traits. Normal characters work for stuff while sues have them from the beggining with no explenation or hard work put into obtaining it.

@edgelord666 said:

You have literally proven him right with your former post you clown.

@gaoron: so would it be more sensible then to call goten or kid trunks a MS due to them not having to do much to reach super Saiyan? They had a natural affinity to use a technique that was supposed to be basically impossible even for the main characters to do but they easily achieved it with less work than everyone else

I thought a Mary Sue was supposed to be good at stuff?

Definitely. Small difference between someone like Rey and Trunks/Goten is that Trunks and Goten have an in universe explanation for their power, being a half blooded saiyan which have more potential than full blooded ones (that still doesn't really justifies them being so powerfull but it's atleast something). Rey on the other hand was revealed in TLJ to be just some random girl with poor non-force sinsitive parents which makes Rey being super talented and powerfull even less believable and unlogical.

LMAO

Batman

Rey and Doctor Doom came to my mind.

Spiderman?

Hulk is defo a Marty-Sue. The guy gets stronger the angrier he gets and is said to be limitless in his rage. When he need to see spirits he suddenly got the ability to see spiritual beings. He was so strong that he punched a hole into reality (when that ability is not supposed to be related to his physical based abilities. Punching a hole into the fabric of reality is supposed to be the most absurd thing a being whose power is supposed to be physical based should have and there shouldn’t be any justification for it. He fought Doctor Strange (the Sorcerer supreme) who could destroy him instant with a flick of his wrist, but he defeated Doctor strange because strange had to be sudden stupid for him to want to make himself physically strong and also because the sorcerer hesitated. He was so strong that he could jump from one planet or solar system to another totally ignoring the laws of space (despite not having as self propelling power in such a vacuum). What else did he do? Oh yeah, he got nearly instant regeneration, is Immortal, nearly if not immune to telepathic attacks, has a power for nearly every situation, or they make characters stupid or weak next to him. Clearly a Marty-stue character.

@codybax: Mary Sues are also suppose to be perfect personality wise as well as power.

Hulk, superman, batman and wolverine? What the hell are people smoking? None of them are Mary sue/Gary stu. I honestly can't remember anyone in comics who is a Mary Sue /Gary stu.

Jean Grey

Or

Superman

Or

Rey

@omnipotent94: I would say Batman is one.

Anakin Skywalker

Luke in ANH and ESB

Rey

@omnipotent94: To be fair some of those characters do look like Mary Sues if you just look at them from a surface level.

Wonder Woman and Rey.

Do you know what a Mary Sue is? Someone who doesn't have flaws. Batman is far from perfect. He doesn't kill the Joker because he knows that if he starts killing he won't be able to stop. He has brutally tortured many criminals and sometimes they were innocent, he is arrogant and he is a jerk, he doesn't trust anyone, and he has actually suffered a lot . He has so many flaws. How can he be a Mary Sue?

@kidolio: I agree. On the surface level batman, superman and hulk definitely look like Mary sues. But even if you have only basic knowledge of the characters you would notice that they all have many flaws. Especially batman and hulk.

But wolverine? C'mon. Not even a half wit would Logan is a Mary Sue.

@omnipotent94: he can do a lot of things that he shouldn't be able to.

Like what? Take on the justice league? Many people have done far more impressive stuff than that. Doom and Lex Luthor have become actual gods. Even Tony (who I believe you are a fan of based on your username) can take on the avengers with enough prep. Also everything batman can do, black panther can do it too. And unlike batman, T'challa doesn't have so many flaws. I don't hear anyone calling him a Mary Sue.

Also the most important point, thats not a reason to be a Mary Sue. A character is a Mary Sue based on his /her personality and traits not based on what he or she can or cannot do.

@omnipotent94: Tony lost to both the Hulk and Thor even with prep, the same should happen to Batman. No human even with Kryptonite is matching Superman.

Added: Black Panther is also a MS imo.

@omnipotent94: Hulk? Not really, even on the surface level.

Superman surface level: Good at almost everything without really trying

Batman surface level: Good at almost everything in 17 years of training after tragic backstory

@kidolio: Well some ignorant people might think that hulk can get as strong as he wants and that makes him a Mary Sue. No one really is a Mary Sue in comics.

@omnipotent94: I can agree with no one truly being a MS, I just don't like Batman because he seems really plot based to me.

Fun fact : Batman has never defeated superman in canon. TDKR was non cannon.

The two times he came really close to defeating superman in cannon were in hush where batman himself said that superman was holding back a lot and supes could crush him if he wanted.

The second time was in endgame (N52) where batman had built a special suit to fight superman (Fenrir) and still lost in seconds. Batman was even slightly scared to face him.

Also as I said above PIS and plot armor don't make someone a Mary Sue. It's mostly personality and traits.

Added : And no black panther also has many flaws and isn't a Mary Sue. The only fictional character that comes close to being to Mary Sue is Rey from Star wars.

Yeah.... I thought that might be the reason. Don't worry, you are not alone buddy. It's common for many people (including me) to say that some character is over rated and a Mary Sue just because I hate the character.

@omnipotent94: Well they don’t know what Mary Sue means thats because they most likely think he’s a big dumb monster meaning they’ve already eliminated him from being a Mary Sue.

Depends on your definition of Mary sue. If ya know what I mean...

@batmanplusjay: Read All Star Superman, Kingdom Come, Red Son, etc.

Tell me...How is Superman a boring character again?

Rey, superman, rey, captain america(mcu specifically), rey, arya, rey, and you cant forget rey.

Medaka, but it's on purpose.

I'd say Meng Hao gets pretty close to it, but at least most people hate his personality and only really respect him because he's op af. So, not entirely . . .

@chloros:

Let's get one thing straight here. A Male version of mary sue is called a gary stu. Second things second. Goku is not a "gary stu" neither is batman. A mary sue or "gary stu" is when a seemingly perfect character with no flaws, or who always overpowers other characters. Batman has alot of flaws and he has lost plently of times. His biggest fails including Bane who broke his back, joker emotionally wrecked him, etc..

As for Goku. Goku trained and worked hard the god level he has attained. He couldn't beat cell so he gave out, He couldn't beat kid buu without the help of the other z-fighters giving him energy, and he lost to beerus.

So I don't understand people's comments in this thread.

@achievedhero: Yeah, Batman is not a Mary Sue in his own stories but he is in many Justice League stories where they wank him to such extreme levels.

He is totally different person in many Justice League stories.

In his own stories he is easily beaten and outsmarted by street level characters. Overcoming fear is a major theme. He needs help constantly from his families and even enemies like Catwoman, Harley quinn

In Justice League, Anti Darkseid gun, Justice League buster Mech, Anti Wonder Woman lasso, Aquaman bubblegum, going toe with Superpowered beings who can kill him with one touch and even beating them etc etc kind of make him a Mary Sue.