Who is the better character: The Joker or Doctor Doom?
Doom. Joker's a better villain but not really a complex character or anything. And lately he's been annoying as hell
@nicolascagegod: @newecho: You two are completely wrong and lowballing Joker lmao.
OT: Joker stomps. Victor wishes he had one single version as good as Ledger's or Hamill's.
He is talking comics my man but you do you
@newecho: The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns and Azzarello solos.
Yeah he is a great villian.. He is one dimensional which makes for a great villian. Doom is not. Doom is complex. The question isn't which is the better villian.
@darkbateman: Firstly, read the Title. It's not about Voice actors and it's not about LA either. It's not about who's the better villain either.
Secondly, reread what I wrote. I said Joker's a good villain. Which he objectively is, but not because he's a complex character but rather a great Foil to Batman.
@nicolascagegod: I stated my opinion, I get that you Marvel guys believe that "Marvel is better, I must wank them no matter what - complex".
But people are allowed to have different opinions. Joker works also as a stand-alone character, watch the movie or read his solo comic: Azzarello.
awe so you inferred because i said doom is a better character than joker then i must be a marvel guy...cool.. I have read joker. He is still an agent of chaos that is one dimensional. Again he is great at the thing he is used for, but again doom is way more complex and has many different variations. Joker isn't a better character than luthor who has way more sides and complexiety to him. Again you are conflating character and villian. Complexity is what makes a character. The punisher would be an example of a joker style character in marvel. He is very one dimensional.
You're in no position to claim that people are allowed to have different opinions. Especially when you call a random person you don't know Jack about, A Marvel Wanker. I read more of DC than Marvel but that doesn't even matter here. I just gave my opinion, walked away and you called me back into this thread by pinging me while saying this
You two are completely wrong
Regarding my opinion.
@newecho: complexity doesn’t necessarily mean better
Yeah it actually does... It means he has more layers and more to him. Again punisher is a marvel version of the joker. He is one dimensional. Joker is literally just an agent of chaos. Harley is a better written character than joker. Joker however is a top level villian and when he shows up it invokes the right kind of emotions when you see him.
@newecho: He isn't one-dimensional, and also as I said nothing changes the fact that Joker is far more iconic and and has more versatility than Doom.
There's the psycho Joker, the gangster Joker, the "agent of chaos" Joker and the anti-hero Joker.
Complexity is what makes a character? So according to your dumb logic, (Marvel guy in a nutshell) Doom is a better character than Darth Vader? Lmao.
Awh so you are arguing that iconic means better? Doom is literally one of the 3 smartest characters in comics so no joker isn't more versatile than he is. You do realize darth vader has more to him than just the movies right? And again you are arguing iconic vs complexity. Mickey mouse would be a better character in your mind than joker because he is more iconic. Btw i read way more dc than marvel but you know keep on thinking how you think.
@newecho: He isn't one-dimensional, yet again you're missing the point of the character.
The guy who did break and change the main character affects the story way more than Doom's lazy prep plans do.
That's a better character, you should've watched The Dark Knight properly.
dude you are talking movies.......... I am talking comics..... In the movies joker is a much better character and way better represented than doom. That's not even a debate. However he isn't better than doom is in the comics. Doom is way more than just a prep guy. Heck read dr strange and dooms triumph and torment for just one example of his character.
@newecho: Yes, but you're the only troll here who's downplaying Joker and Vader to prop up Doom.
They're both complex, whatever you like it or not and more versatile than the "prep guy villain" who is only a ruler in a nutshell.
I've read his comics and I prefer Joker, you prefer Doom. Isn't that the point of a debate?
actually i prefer joker but that doesn't mean he is a better written character than doom no matter how many times you call him the prep guy. How am i trolling? Your first reponse was that i and another person was completely lowballing joker followed by lmao which is what trolls do.
@newecho: complexity doesn’t necessarily mean better
@newecho: Yes, you were lowballing at start.
It's all subjective, for me Joker is better and for you Doom is better. It is hard to understand?
Doom isn't even remotely close to Vader's league, and Joker's being compared with Vader means you're horribly mistaken.
I never compared anyone to vader. You did.. You think vader is one dimensional. I don't because i have read comics and other fiction with vader and know he isn't. Vader is a much better written character than joker or doom. Who you prefer isn't the same as who is better because again i would much rather read a good joker story than a good doom story. I prefer joker.
@newecho: Yes, you were lowballing at start.
It's all subjective, for me Joker is better and for you Doom is better. It is hard to understand?
Doom isn't even remotely close to Vader's league, and Joker's being compared with Vader means you're horribly mistaken.
I never compared anyone to vader. You did.. You think vader is one dimensional. I don't because i have read comics and other fiction with vader and know he isn't. Vader is a much better written character than joker or doom. Who you prefer isn't the same as who is better because again i would much rather read a good joker story than a good doom story. I prefer joker.
And you're the ignorant, narrow-minded bias fanboy who doesn't read comics. Joker is far more than one-dimensional. Also, I agree that he's better then Doom but he's equal to Joker imo. Prequels writing hurt him.
Dude you are the one who has been arguing movies and voice acting while i have been arguing comics. I have read every comic that you have mentioned. Heck most of them i have read multiple times. I have read joker and luther a dozen or more times. Killing joke 20 or more. I have been reading comics probably longer than you have been alive if i had to guess. You don't make actual arguments. You prefer joker, and again i prefer joker. He isn't the better written character tho.
@newecho: better character isn’t just in the writing though, it’s everything from how engaging they are, how well designed they are etc. Joker is one dimensional but there’s still so much versatility within that, Jack Nicholson, Heath Ledger, Mark Hamill & Phoenix all had drastically different takes on that one character. Joker’s flexibility alone makes him better than Doom.
So because actors had different takes makes him a better written character? Is that your argument? Again i prefer joker but he isn't a better written character. He is an agent of chaos who is a plot device most of the time. There are no layers to him. If he is there it's to make noise. Doom isn't that. If he shows up, you never know what you are going to get.
Doom. I think it’s harder to understand Joker since his backstory is inconsistent. It adds to the mystery and menace of the character, but detracts his motivation beyond the surface. For me, Victor’s past defines his actions and his goals. Understanding his story adds depth to his overall character.
The whole point of Joker's characterization is that he's completely insane - chaos incarnate. That, inevitably, leads itself to quite a shallow and simplistic characterization because he's basically whatever the writer wants him to be, without any real regard to previous incarnations. Now, if we're saying the better character is whoever is most fleshed out, complex, nuanced and defined, then Doom would, naturally, be the better character. That said, there's power in simplicity and one need look no further than the impact Joker has had on the popular culture generally and I think its clear that overall he's a more archetypical, influential and powerful character than Doom is.
To everyone saying Doom, do you agree that Sephiroth is a better character than Kefka?
Is that a fair comparison? Sephiroth is a emo edgelord, Doom is a complex character with decades of great stories behind his belt.
OT: Joker sucks beyond Sliver Age stories for the most part. Boring character. Been used as a plot device since N52 came out and has no depth.
@professorrespect: can we agree Kefka is overrated?
@professorrespect: can we agree Kefka is overrated?
Oh yeah ofc. His whole thing is that he's crazy and doesn't care about morals: the novelty of such a gimmick wears off pretty quickly.
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