Who Has Handled Mythology Better: the MCU or the DCEU?

IMO: The MCU.

I don't like how the DCEU decided to kill off all but one god before their universe even started. I would have liked to see some of the Olympians in the modern day, the same way we see the modern day Aesir in the Thor movies. The closest we'll ever come to that in the DCEU was Zeuses cameo in Justice League.

Also, I like how the MCU explained their mythlogy as a mixture of science and magic, that was pretty interesting.

What mythology? Because there is only Diana, everyone else is dead. Though Thor seems like he will be in the same boat come Infinity War, at least he had 3 movies to establish Asgard and it's people.

Neither.

Really?

Sure, we can all complain about DCEU killing all of the older gods, which focused entirely on the story of Ares, Wonder Woman and the Amazons. Story and lore wise, it makes sense.

But there's nothing worst than Thor Ragnarok in terms of handling mythology. The theme park nonsense comedy shtick doesn't fit the title Ragnarok in anyway. This movie alone already destroyed whatever mythology it established in their universe.

@undefined: mcu's norse mythology is kinda trash compared to 616 and so. Dc doesn't normally develop old gods as much as they should. It's pretty close imo

MCU had it better with Thor 1, as it began but slowly ruined it to the point they were just your regular aliens with advanced tech by the end of the movie. It gets worse in Thor 2 and completely goes off the rails in Ragnarok when they turned Asgardians into comedians.

DCEU though killed its mythological creatures, they still retained some of their aspects like Zeus creating the island, magic, protecting humans from extraterrestial threats. We may also learn a thing or 2 on Poseidon before he died in Aquaman.

The Design, Power levels and Physical Appearance of Gods in the DCEU solos.

Too bad they are all dead now.

Neither of them.

The MCU, but that's not saying much. Thor movies are pretty light on exploring the Norse myth IMO, especially where Thor: Ragnarok is concerned (more focus on humor than the bloody history of Odin's ruling/backroom politics). I kinda wish Thor movies explored more of the Nine Realms and have a story that's similar to Star Trek, just exploring different worlds, cultures and politics throughout the realms.

@deltahuman said:

The Design, Power levels and Physical Appearance of Gods in the DCEU solos.

Too bad they are all dead now.

True. I might have gone with the DCEU if not for the fact that they're all dead.

The Dceu fit of the Greek myth in their shared cinematic universe worldbuilding is incredibly inconsequential, its like they were creators that never existed and never meant anything, i mean the modern world looks exactly like the non fictional reality that we live in, and we are supposed to believe that in the Dceu Earth was shaped by Zeus? (lol) Even Martha doesn't believe it...

For the most part, the comic book bubble didn't get yet how hard is to build a (live action) coherent cinematic worldbuilding that actually can fit several franchises and still make sense.

Sure that the main reason that the Dceu failed was NOT the shared cinematic potential of their characters, but Gotham, Krypton and Themiscyra chemistry was and is just awful, Asgard fit in the Mcu (far from being perfect) always flow a lot better than an Olympus notion in the Dceu.

I would say DCEU. For my own personal taste, MARVEL Studios blends a little too much sci-fi in with Thor and related characters than I like. At times it comes off a little too Star Treky instead of being straight-up mystical/magical in nature imho.

All it says is that Zeus created man, nothing about shaping Earth nor confirming his lineage.

On-Topic, I'll go with the DCEU Gods. The MCU Gods aren't even true gods to begin with, just aliens with weird abilities.

Also this.

@batman242:

All it says is that Zeus created man, nothing about shaping Earth nor confirming his lineage.

Did you get what i said? Not sure what you are saying here, that in the Dceu the creator of mankind didn't shape our planet? It was the creator of the Apes that shaped Earth? Isn't that another franchise from Fox?

On-Topic, I'll go with the DCEU Gods. The MCU Gods aren't even true gods to begin with, just aliens with weird abilities.

What are true Gods?

@asgaard:

Did you get what i said? Not sure what you are saying here, that in the Dceu the creator of mankind didn't shape our planet? It was the creator of the Apes that shaped Earth? Isn't that another franchise from Fox?

Well, I guess I didn't. Maybe you should clarify. All that is confirmed by Hippolyta is that Zeus created humans then Amazons. Saying that he shaped our planet is vague. What does "shape our planet" even mean if not creating it?

What are true Gods?

Supernatural beings with divine abilities. i.e; creating mankind, manipulating them to commit acts out of their nature.... Ya know, the things DCEU Gods did.

Supernatural meaning things that cannot be explained by natural means. MCU Asgardians admit that their technology is simply beyond human understanding and as shown by S.H.I.E.L.D and Jane Foster, they are smart enough to understand such advanced tech-- so by definition, MCU Asgardians are devoid of anything supernatural.

dceu

@batman242:

Well, I guess I didn't. Maybe you should clarify. All that is confirmed by Hippolyta is that Zeus created humans then Amazons. Saying that he shaped our planet is vague. What does "shape our planet" even mean if not creating it?

Because we (Zeus creation) were not who shaped our planet? Was another species? My initial point was...

"they were creators that never existed and never meant anything, i mean the modern world looks exactly like the non fictional reality that we live in, and we are supposed to believe that in the Dceu Earth was shaped by Zeus? (lol) Even Martha doesn't believe it..."

In a scenario where Zeus was the creator of mankind, shouldn't we expect some differences in the evolution of our civilization?

Supernatural beings with divine abilities. i.e; creating mankind, manipulating them to commit acts out of their nature.... Ya know, the things DCEU Gods did.

Oh, that are true Gods? (lol) So MCU Ego was a true God? Were there true Gods in Krypton, maybe it was evolution there? Could Kryptonians be true Gods if they created a dominant species in one random planet, they seem able to replicate that, no?

See that is the definition clearly influenced by our reality religions that were formed way before Galileo Galilei, that would never work in a live action worldbuilding with the range of the Mcu, Earth is not the center of the universe (lol), and the role of who created the dominant species is this one planet and vanished without even being remembered or worshiped is not exactly a God for ... Thanagarians, is it?

More, when you introduce cosmic characters (in live action) you must be careful how you label this or that character as a God and not a God, because one thing is to play with the range of the planet that we live in, other is to play with the entire universe, so yeah, the Dceu did a terrible job with their shared cinematic worldbuilding, the Krypton, Gotham and Themiscyra equation just doesn't work, for some reason WB executives now are saying that they are focusing more on the solo (isolated) takes...

Supernatural meaning things that cannot be explained by natural means.

Natural means? Again, was Ego Supernatural? Does Rocket perceive supernatural like Darcy? Are you finally getting what i am trying to say about worldbuilding range?

MCU Asgardians admit that their technology is simply beyond human understanding and as shown by S.H.I.E.L.D and Jane Foster, they are smart enough to understand such advanced tech-- so by definition, MCU Asgardians are devoid of anything supernatural.

So if Jane foster can't understand anything about how Yondu's arrow works, can he be a God for her but not for Kraglin? (lol)

@asgaard:

Because we (Zeus creation) were not who shaped our planet? Was another species? My initial point was...

"they were creators that never existed and never meant anything, i mean the modern world looks exactly like the non fictional reality that we live in, and we are supposed to believe that in the Dceu Earth was shaped by Zeus? (lol) Even Martha doesn't believe it..."

In a scenario where Zeus was the creator of mankind, shouldn't we expect some differences in the evolution of our civilization?

I don't get your point here. Everything the Old Gods had done was thousands of years prior to modern man and anything they could've done to advance the humans beyond what we in our reality have. It's even explained why humans in the DCEU are the way they are for the most part; because Ares manipulated their hearts to commit evil acts. Diana and Amazons were created to counteract this and spread compassion and love-- as explained in-universe. DCEU Zeus for as far as we know didn't really care much about being praised, worshiped or idolized, just protecting his creations. Why would their works need to be seen in modern day to be validated?

Oh, that are true Gods? (lol) So MCU Ego was a true God?

Never watched Guardians of the Galaxy so can you explain?

Were there true Gods in Krypton, maybe it was evolution there? Could Kryptonians be true Gods if they created a dominant species in one random planet, they seem able to replicate that, no?

Kryptonians by definition aren't gods no matter what they did. What they did can be explained and understood by humans. By definition-- not supernatural or divine.

See that is the definition clearly influenced by our reality religions

What other definition could we or the in-film universe use, might I ask? Do you have some other objective definition to be used in this debate?

that would never work in a live action worldbuilding with the range of the Mcu, Earth is not the center of the universe (lol),and the role of who created the dominant species is this one planet and vanished without even being remembered or worshiped is not exactly a God for ... Thanagarians, is it?

Yet again don't see your point nor do I truly understand the message you're trying to convey.

Natural means? Again, was Ego Supernatural? Does Rocket perceive supernatural like Darcy? Are you finally getting what i am trying to say about worldbuilding range?

You tell me. Were they by definition doing things that cannot be understood to humans no matter how advanced they'd become in technology and understanding of the physical world?

So if Jane foster can't understand anything about how Yondu's arrow works, can he be a God for her but not for Kraglin? (lol)

You're making this more difficult than it needs to be if this is what you're trying to convey. If Jane or any other human has the potential capacity to understand the inner mechanisms of how some off-world device or ability works-- even if that human has millions of years of advancement in technology, said off-world device or ability cannot be supernatural or divine by it's definition. This is precisely the reason it's argued that MCU is devoid of magic. Everything in their world can be broken down to a science regardless of the fact that you, I, or any other extremely intelligent may not understand it (yet).

DCEU sucks but their mythology is handled better than some gods aliens who use magic technology that we don't understand yet

DC I guess.

Marvel destroyed Norse mythology by having the characters be a bunch of witty, mulitracial aliens in plastic looking costumes that wiled lasers and have space ships.

Marvel vaguely used Norse mythology back in Thor 1 didnt really play on it in the 2.5 other films

@batman242:

I don't get your point here. Everything the Old Gods had done was thousands of years prior to modern man and anything they could've done to advance the humans beyond what we in our reality have. It's even explained why humans in the DCEU are the way they are for the most part; because Ares manipulated their hearts to commit evil acts. Diana and Amazons were created to counteract this and spread compassion and love-- as explained in-universe. DCEU Zeus for as far as we know didn't really care much about being praised, worshiped or idolized, just protecting his creations. Why would their works need to be seen in modern day to be validated?

I am just trying to tell you that in our real life reality Zeus didn't create anything, and Ares didn't do anything, and both realities look too much similar... And using your definitions (formed by our real life religions) you should include the worshiped and idolized part...

Never watched Guardians of the Galaxy so can you explain?

Really? Ego fits your (flawed) definition of what is a God.

Kryptonians by definition aren't gods no matter what they did. What they did can be explained and understood by humans. By definition-- not supernatural or divine.

I keep telling you that the center of a well constructed worldbuilding is not Earth or its dominant species, but by default you come back to that flawed notion...

What other definition could we or the in-film universe use, might I ask? Do you have some other objective definition to be used in this debate?

In good fiction there AREN'T restricted definitions specially with Goodly stuff.

Yet again don't see your point nor do I truly understand the message you're trying to convey.

When you introduce several species from different planets and worlds you can't just use one as the only barometer of the all universe perceptions.

You tell me. Were they by definition doing things that cannot be understood to humans no matter how advanced they'd become in technology and understanding of the physical world?

Yes. But in the Mcu humans are just one species of one planet and (again) good fiction is not guided by definitions.

You're making this more difficult than it needs to be if this is what you're trying to convey. If Jane or any other human has the potential capacity to understand the inner mechanisms of how some off-world device or ability works-- even if that human has millions of years of advancement in technology, said off-world device or ability cannot be supernatural or divine by it's definition. This is precisely the reason it's argued that MCU is devoid of magic. Everything in their world can be broken down to a science regardless of the fact that you, I, or any other extremely intelligent may not understand it (yet).

No i am not, i am just showing you how your definition about Gods is flawed and convenient. The range of the concept has to go way beyond your very restricted definition.

And the Mcu always allowed ambiguous interpretations about the extraordinary, specially after Dr. Strange.

The proof of what i said, is that Mcu Asgard was easily portrayed in modern times and Olympus was just erased from existence, and the rumor is that even the Wonder Woman sequel is not set in the current Dceu time line, if there still is a Dceu.

The MCU has done a lot to both humanize and normalize the mythological beings of Norse mythology, and more than a little to emasculate and humiliate them as well.

The DCEU gods on the other hand, well we sort of only get them in their classic guise where they can do pretty much anything. It's a pity that they are all dead now ofc, but I for one am not entirely sure that's a permanent state for them anymore than it was for Superman... but the important thing is that the DCEU gods still actually felt like Gods, something the MCU has lost.

We've barely seen anything from any DCEU god aside from Ares so it's hard to really say.

But the MCU butchers Norse mythology. Basing a movie off of Ragnarok, the single biggest event in the entire ancient religion that ends in the deaths of the gods themselves, into an action comedy is about as disrespectful as you can be. Even worse that Ragnarok isn't even the main focus of the movie. It's vaguely talked about at the start and doesn't come up again until the end of the movie.

@metaljimmor: Well, mythologywise Ares was the god the amazons worshipped the most so thats no less disrespectful.

@stahlflamme:

Ares' portrayal wasn't accurate, but I wouldn't say it's as disrespectful as Thor getting kidnapped by a drunk valkyrie and taken to be Jeff Goldblum's toy, or the burning of Asgard being undercut by a joke.

And if we're talking inaccurate portrayals of the characters themselves? Loki and Hel weren't Odin's children (adopted or otherwise), Hel was Loki's daughter and very much not an evil villainess who fights with blades, and Loki didn't want to take over Asgard. Perhaps the only accurate thing about any of their portrayals to the original source material is that Thor has a hammer named Mjollnir.

But I get that this is all from the comicbooks similar to Ares being a villain, so I didn't think it was worth mentioning. I'm not going to fault the movies for keeping to the comic canon, but Ragnarok being a comedy was an invention of the movies. At least as far as I know.

@metaljimmor: You know Thor went through plenty of humiliation in his legends right?

@stahlflamme:

Sure, but that wasn't my main issue with the film. It's that Ragnarok, the biggest event of the entire religion. The ultimate end of the gods themselves. The final fate that proves not even the gods can change their destiny. Was treated like a tertiary plot point in a movie titled Ragnarok, which itself was a wacky comedy without any feeling of the gravitas that should come with it.

At least Hack Snyder did something right and made everyone including Superman a god

What's this. A thread where people are comparing the MCU and DCEU in a civilised manner without fanboys pleading for the thread to be locked. This is madness.

OT-DCEU

They both did away with their mythologies rather unceremoniously so it's pretty much equal. MCU explaining away Asgardians as aliens with advanced science in Thor 1 and DCEU killing all the gods in Wonder Woman.

DCEU did a better job as they often do however with power levels. Olympians are portrayed with much more implied power than Asgardians.

do you not see the salt in this thread what are you talking about lol

Fair point but it's considerably better than previous threads lol.

Definitely dceu

This isn't even a comparison

One kept the mythology. Albeit they are all dead but still they kept it.

Mcu made them into aliens

Neither.

The dceu hasnt had as many movies to expand on their universe so I guess mcu by default.

Calling Snyder a "hack" is pretty juvenile. But on topic: there was a rumor prior to BvS that amazons were going to be tied to kryptonians in some way. Thankfully that's not the case.

None of the above

MCU turned their gods into aliens with tech!

so basically DCEU since they don't turned amazons into random aliens with random tech.

Handled better in what sense?

Most accurate to source material (comic) or source material (mythology)

Or just which did you enjoy more.

Really vague question

Both are underwhelming. DCEU has the option to expand on their mythology in Aquaman & Shazam while MCU seem to be shying away from theirs.

This makes the MCU look worse in my opinion as in 18 movies and 7 shows all they have is a half assed Norse Mythology and I guess Black Panther made some references to Bast & Hanuman.

The MCU

I study mythology in college.

Both MCU and DCEU destroy the basic fundamentals the respective mythologies.