Who else from the MCU can deflect Mjolnir?

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KryptonianKing88

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Poll Who else from the MCU can deflect Mjolnir? (71 votes)

Hulk 21%
Thor with lightning 30%
Thanos 62%
Hela 73%
Captain Marvel 41%
Ultron 13%
other 20%
No Caption Provided

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Johndeyvido

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@nn5:

I don't think I need to discuss the mljnoir feat as the question I asked was purely hypothetical and you've given ur opinion but concerning the mljnoir batting feat, the hammer clearly rocked Thanos out of the way, Thanos didn't want to throw Tony but used him as a shield.

Lol the hulk fight isn't the same as the Hela fight. He was even smiling after hulk caught his strike that did not in anyway indicate someone giving his best. He's not going to be givinghis all against his friend and the avengers mljnoir hit was even him holding back compare that strike to how hard he struck Malekith.

After watching the two gifs and saying they are comparable, let's agree to disagree because there's no point if you can't tell one is a strength contest and the other lightning attacks so if Thanos could tank Thors lightning while still stalemating his strength then why was he hurt by Cap's lightning attacks at all. Thor hit Hela with a lightning bolt attack which Hela blocked, Thor immediately followed up with another lightning bolt that lifts Hela up in the air and used another to bring her down midair and you think it's comparable to Thanos trying to prevent SB from slicing his throat. I have already explained why the Cap feat is different.

Like I said, it doesn't matter if Hela used physical strength to crush the hammer because even if she used hax that's still saying she has hax that can destroy one of the most durable objects in the mcu. I don't care how far above Thanos she is, just being above Thanos is good enough for me.

Her blades power were not hyperbole, it didn't fail to pierce anything hence why 'unstoppable'is factually correct.

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hkesupermantis

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A lots could.

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nn5

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@johndeyvido: So what indicates someone packing lot of force in his hit? Of course Thor doesn't want to kill his friend but adding a force of a jump + making a swing or swinging Mjolnir in A1 as well are there to make the hit harder. Thor knows Hulk isn't made of glass lol Thor not using sky lighting or not following with lightning punches in quick succession indicates he was holding back but that doesn't mean he didn't strike hard with his physical strikes.

Thanos' scene is strength contest as well but the fact that lightning hits his chest and there is clearely shown that Thor channels his lighting powers as his eyes glow shouldn't be ignored. Cap's lightning was called from the sky, and such strikes are shown to be more powerful than cloak alone.

Her crushing hammer with hax would be cerainly more acceptable feats-wise IMO as I'm talking mostly about strength here.

Blades' unstoppability has limits though as they didn't fly all the way through Surtur's body and got locked in it instead, for example (don't get me wrong here, her piercing Surtur is insanely good feat but she has limits).

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Johndeyvido

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#54  Edited By Johndeyvido

@nn5:

No where have I said Thor wasn't hitting hulk hard just not his hardest because Hulk is a friend. A sparing match isn't the same as a death battle even though people still hit each other hard in a sparing match.

Thor clearly wanted to kill his sister, he stabbed her is the chest with Gungnir FFS. Hela was also jobbing against Thor. She was on the defensive, she didn't even hit Thor at all until the very end when she slashes him with her sword. So their fight isn't scalable to the arena fight with Hulk.

I agree that her destroying the hammer with hax would make more sense but no evidence whatsoever supports that so the simplest assumptions is often the most correct-she used her strength.

SB gives off tiny lightning sparks, that is what I ve said already but that doesn't compare to a direct lightning attack from Thor. A more comparable but more powerful scene is Thor hitting Thanos with lightning from SB before throwing the axe in IW.

So the "lowball" of her blades is that her skyscrapper-sized projectiles didn't punch through and still fly off a 4km tall being that's atleast a billion tonner with durability never seen before in the mcu? Ultimately her blades never failed to pierce anything she threw them at. Unstoppable doesn't mean it has infinite momentum since that's the interpretation you are basing your arguments on.

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nn5

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@johndeyvido: So what else Thor could do to pack more strength in that strike (other than adding the force of his jump and swing)? Here and in A1 Helicarrier fight he makes the moves that indicate him using as much strength as he could. I don't see a reason why Hulk can't be just that good to tank Thor's full force physical strikes (no lightning involved) without any serious damage and why Thor, having knowledge on Hulk, would hesitate to strike with full force even in a sparing match.

Yes, she was holding back to great extent at least in throne room fight. That doesn't change she needed two hands to quickly disarm Thor. If Mjolnir strength is strength, I'd consider it an outlier tbh. Her other showings just don't justify her being that good but we have to agree to disagree probably.

Thor hitting Thanos in IW is not comparable at all because of 2 reasons:

- Thor could have easily charged the hammer with sky lightning blast (which seems to be in-character for him given he does so before EG fight) so no evidence this strike is just lightning cloak,

- and more importantly - Thanos wasn't even looking at Thor and knowing he's there. Cap's first strike is more comparable to Hela's cause they both were paying attention to Cap/Thor respectively and should be able to brace (though we need to take into account that Cap's blast was Sky one).

If we limit unstoppable only to piercing then okay. Still we can't assume that the blades are better than their best feat (Surtur) and can pierce anything because of a vague statement.

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Johndeyvido

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@nn5:

Maybe we both have a different meaning for what "tanking" means. If Hulk can tank Thor's full strength hits with mljnoir why then is he able to hurt him with casual jabs and I think you will agree with me that Thor's jabs are not better than 'full-power mljnoir' hits that can rock Thanos. BTW tanking to me implies completely no-selling an attack.

Hela was able to overpower a serious Thor with one arm, Thanos couldn't even do so(we saw 3 direct strength contest btw the two of them) and unless you think Hulk is stronger than Thanos then this shouldn't be an argument. You should also know that regardless of your strength there are moves you need two hands for and that is the case for the Hela's instance.

She has no feat that contradicts the mljnoir breaking feat so I don't know why it's important to you that the feat be an outlier.

The time it took cap's lightning to get to Thanos, Thor had fired 3 lightning attacks at Hela so again they are not comparable.

It's funny you used one instance that had nothing to do with the discussion to say that Thor charges his weapon before a fight (in character). He only called down lightning on his weapons so he could redirect them to the opening on Tony's suit. Finally I think we both interpret what his lightning cloak is differently so that's why we won't likely reach any compromise. To me his LC is a passive lightning surrounding him that offers him some form of protection. What he used against Hela was his lightning blast.

We don't need to assume anything since the guidebook already provided us with that information. No one has said her blades have better feats than piercing Surtur, I'm just citing what the guidebook said about her blades and why it isn't a hyperbole.

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Supermod111

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Stan Lee can do it just fine.

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nn5

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@johndeyvido: So we have different definitions of tanking. I'd call e.g. Thor taking Hulk's punches on arena or Thanos taking lightning blasts as tanking- even though it gave Thor/Thanos pain they got no lasting damage and were in perfect fighting condition when attack stopped. I assume no-selling is when someone isn't hurt in the slightest (e.g. Carol no-sold Thanos' headbutt and Sanctuary missles, Thanos no-sold Thor's strike in IW beginning). Not sure if my assumptions are correct here though.

Thing about Hulk is that his physicals changes with rage level (well, except Prof Hulk). IMO that's why Thor had the advantage at the beginning of Ragnarok fight but when Hulk got pissed, he started stomping Thor physically. Also, it's not like the jabs were doing some big damage to Hulk, not in a way to assume that hitting him with some hammer would do more than dazing him heavier.

In both of strength contests between Thor and Thanos, Thor used weapons though (and some lightning in the second). In first one in particular Thanos needed to also overpower Thor's TK over Stormbreaker. It can be that Russos put Thor's strength level closer to Hulk/Thanos than Waititi does cause based on Ragnarok Hela isn't much above Hulk. About the move, she could equally effortlessly grab Gungir out of Thor's hands with her one if she was many times stronger (e.g. if her one hand was 1.5 times stronger or more than Thor's two), not with the very same move but with same ease. Plus the lightning showings also indicate she isn't >> Thanos/Hulk strength and durability-wise, but we won't agree on that probably.

About Thor charging weapons - I said 'before fight', meaning the moment when he calls both Mjolnir & SB and lightning comes down on him. And yeah, we disagree on cloak. I think it's all lightning Thor generates 'by himself' without calling anything from the sky to use directly on opponent or charge a weapon. He can use it as both actual 'cloak' or blasts. I think that's simplier explanation.

About the blades - I don't know what you're trying to tell. Do you mean that they can pierce someone even much more durable than Surtur because guidebook says they are unstoppable?

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ThunderPrince

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Only Hela and Prime Surter stand a chance. Thanos and the rest do not have any feats close to that.

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Johndeyvido

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@nn5:

Yes tanking is no-sell so we disagree on that.

Hulk gets a strength boost with rage but nothing says he gets twice as strong and nothing indicates that Hulk was twice as strong as Thor in the arena fight at any point. Hela is actually the only character to tank Thor's physical attacks. If her intent was to just disarm Thor's weapon you would be correct but she also wanted to ragdoll him and her using her second hand gave her better leverage considering the awkward position of her hand and grip on the weapon.

Thor matched Thanos 3 different times. The first instance was when they clashed their weapons and Thor disarmed Thanos before Thanos started beating him up. The second time he was in a disadvantaged position and Thanos was still struggling to finish him off and he brought down Thanos to his knees the third time. BTW nothing also indicates Thor was using his TK in their any of their strength confrontation.

We are clearly not going to agree on the lightning issue because I don't believe you can compare strength based on how lightning moved Thanos and Hela or their durability due to the simple term bracing and Thanos has more time to brace himself in the instance you are using for comparison. One thing however is clear, based on their portrayals Hela is above Thanos and Hulk statwise.

Thor calls down lightning to transform into his asgardian battle armor which was what he did in endgame. We also disagree on his lightning cloak.

About her blades, it is you saying the mcu official guidebook statement is an exaggeration is what I disagree with since nothing in the movie suggested so. No one knows if it can pierce someone more durable than Surtur since it didn't face anyone more durable than Surtur.

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nn5

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@johndeyvido: I don't think we'll ever get an agreement on Hulk scene. But when one character completely stops the other's two hand momentum strike with one hand, then IMO it clearely means that this one is twice as strong as the other.

Thanos can no-sell Thor's unarmed hits as well given that Mjolnir strikes were only slightly moving his head (and we know how big difference is between Mjolnir and fist strike, A1 helicarrier fight shows that well). Don't know about Hulk but in Ragnarok he got fazed by regular punches only before he got the rage boost (before catching the hammer and starting to smash Thor).

About Thor vs Thanos, I think you don't take lightning into consideration. In first instance you mention, Thanos stopped Thor's two hand jumping strike with his sword, and you can see that lightning from SB is hitting his bare hand right where he holds the handle (while his second hand wasn't in as good position to hold the sword as it couldn't even fully grip it). So not strength only feat for Thor. About Thanos pushing SB - the smile on his face indicates more sadism than actual struggling. Plus Thanos needed to overpower SB flying to Thor, why would Thor's control over it magically disappear the moment Thanos grabbed it? We've already said enpugh about third instance and disagreed.

Don't get me wrong, all 3 situatuions are still very good showings for Thor and pit his strength far higher than what I'd expect based on rest of MCU movies but other feats/scalings can't be thrown away either.

Explain why Hela wasn't braced when she knew Thor is going to constantly attack her? If Thor was massively faster than her or she didn't know he's going to attack, the I'd agree she couldn't. Compare it with Cap vs Thanos fight for example. Cap was hitting Thanos with Mjolnir strikes in quick succession and he had like split second to brace (much like Hela against Thor's lightning whips) yet he could do that and wasn't sent flying away by Mjolnir.

If we don't know if she can pierce someone more durable than Surtur, then 'unstoppable' statement means nothing important when it comes to battle discussion. Also tbh I think Surtur durability is overrated, as I've recently seen that even Hulk could do some, little damage (most importantly - without hurting his own fists in process) to Surtur's crown which seems to be the most durable part of his body.

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Ready_4_Madness

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Hela & Carol

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Johndeyvido

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@nn5 said:

@johndeyvido: I don't think we'll ever get an agreement on Hulk scene. But when one character completely stops the other's two hand momentum strike with one hand, then IMO it clearely means that this one is twice as strong as the other.

We don't agree because your opinion is incorrect. Blocking an attack doesn't immediately imply your are twice as strong as your opponent.

Thanos can no-sell Thor's unarmed hits as well given that Mjolnir strikes were only slightly moving his head (and we know how big difference is between Mjolnir and fist strike, A1 helicarrier fight shows that well). Don't know about Hulk but in Ragnarok he got fazed by regular punches only before he got the rage boost (before catching the hammer and starting to smash Thor).

The difference between mljnoir hits and his unarmed hits isn't that far apart like you are making it out to be. His incredible strength is atleast 90% of the factor, case in point when he sent hulk flying across the arena in Ragnarok with a normal hammer. Thor didn't hit Hulk after his rage boost with his jabs so we don't know for sure if Hulk can tank it anything else is pure speculation on your part. Hela wasn't moved at all by Thor's mljnoir throw and she was at her weakest while cap's hammer throws were rocking Thanos to the extent the directors said Cap almost had him(which could mean KO or death)

PS: if Hulk got twice as strong as per your arguments then why couldn't he KO Thor after over a dozen hits? Or did Thor's durability double too?

About Thor vs Thanos, I think you don't take lightning into consideration. In first instance you mention, Thanos stopped Thor's two hand jumping strike with his sword, and you can see that lightning from SB is hitting his bare hand right where he holds the handle (while his second hand wasn't in as good position to hold the sword as it couldn't even fully grip it). So not strength only feat for Thor. About Thanos pushing SB - the smile on his face indicates more sadism than actual struggling. Plus Thanos needed to overpower SB flying to Thor, why would Thor's control over it magically disappear the moment Thanos grabbed it? We've already said enpugh about third instance and disagreed.

The sparks that the axe give off isn't at all comparable to Thor's lightning attacks so I don't know why you think it's relevant to this discourse. Immediately Thanos grabbed his axe, Thor dropped his arm( the hand he requires to telekinetically control the axe) and Thanos immediately tried to push the axe into his chest. Whether Thanos was giving his 100% isn't the point, the point is he had all the advantages and still struggled to finish Thor off. He had beaten Thor to the inch of his life had better leverage than Thor and using his full body strength and yet Thor could still match his strength albeit temporarily.

Don't get me wrong, all 3 situatuions are still very good showings for Thor and pit his strength far higher than what I'd expectbased on rest of MCU movies but other feats/scalings can't be thrown away either.

The bolded part is exactly the root cause of our disagreement. You have a level every mcu character is supposed to be in your mind and anything to the contrary, you find any way to disagree with it. I think this is why you are struggling to admit that Hela is above Thanos statwise despite the onscreen evidence and feats. Maybe in your mind Hela isn't supposed to be stronger than the " big bad " but that shouldn't really matter.

Explain why Hela wasn't braced when she knew Thor is going to constantly attack her? If Thor was massively faster than her or she didn't know he's going to attack, the I'd agree she couldn't. Compare it with Cap vs Thanos fight for example. Cap was hitting Thanos with Mjolnir strikes in quick succession and he had like split second to brace (much like Hela against Thor's lightning whips) yet he could do that and wasn't sent flying away by Mjolnir.

Hela wasn't braced because of a lot of reasons among them which are:

1)She is not psychic, she can't read Thor's mind and anticipate all his attacks (2) you cannot be actively fighting and bracing at the same time...

Using Cap's fight Vs Thanos further proves my point. Hela was at no point sent flying away but Thanos was sent flying twice(even though it was short distances) and like I've said before, Hela was lifted up her feet with lightning not sent flying she blocked a direct blast without bulging while Thanos was still thrown despite have more time to brace himself.

If we don't know if she can pierce someone more durable than Surtur, then 'unstoppable' statement means nothing important when it comes to battle discussion. Also tbh I think Surtur durability is overrated, as I've recently seen that even Hulk could do some, little damage (most importantly - without hurting his own fists in process) to Surtur's crown which seems to be the most durable part of his body.

We don't know because the blades didn't encounter anyone above Surtur and fail, I guess by your logic the power stone doesn't contain infinite power because the most we have seen it do is destroy a planet. If you want to prove that the mcu official guidebook was using hyperbole to describe her blades then you will have to show feats that contradicts that statement not the other way around.

Surtur's crown is a magical artifact that grows with his size and there is no established durability level for the crown and no evidence that the same crown is the most durable part of him. Surtur's durability might be overrated but he has better durability than anyone else with physical form in the mcu or dceu and the Surtur that faced Hela is 5X bigger than the one you claim Hulk was hurting so that point is irrelevant.

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SufferedToker

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Are people seriously arguing that the main antagonist of an almost 2 dozen movies-long saga is weaker than a secondary antagonist of some random movie within they saga?

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Johndeyvido

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@sufferedtoker:

Yes people do so. Unfortunately my friend, we don't judge feats/powerlevel by number of movies appeared in. Hela is stronger than Thanos by feats, Surtur is also stronger than Thanos despite not being the main villain of "2dozens movie long saga".

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Gaoron

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Thanos and Hela, maybe Carol

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nn5

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@johndeyvido: For that argument I just answer that's because you're wrong ignoring the fact that it even wasn't a regular hut, but momentum one, with Thor adding power with a jump.

Compare Thor's unarmed punch that barely moved Hulk and Mjolnir hit that sent him flying away while he was charging moments later. Ragnarok hammer strike happened before Hulk got rage boost, it's very possible he wasn't as angry at the point as during A1 (that's the only explanation I see cause shown difference between punch and Mjolnir is substantial). And Hulk not KO'ing Thor is about durability, irrelevant here.

Your argument about lightning is based solely on visuals ('small sparks' so they have to be less powerful). It's like saying DCEU Superman is ten times stronger than Thor because he makes huge shockwaves with his strikes, and from what I know you'd disagree with this similar visuals-based argument.

No, it's not a core of our disagreement. Thor's showings in EG made me change my opinion and think he's lot closer to Thanos strength-wise. After IW I'd argue Thanos is around 3 times stronger, now I think 2 times or bit more, and the way I interpret the feats is because I want to find consistency with Hulk showing we disagree at. If we dismiss arena scene, then sure I'll be willing to assume Thanos is 1.5 times stronger or so (even though lightning either gave Thor some advantage or it was no-sold which would be good feat for Thanos either way).

Moving to Hela/Thanos lightning comparison, Thanos was sent flying by spinning Mjolnir. Regular feats only moved his head but by logic you're using:

1. Thanos is not a psychic so he can't brace for any of Cap's Mjolnir strikes even though he pays attention to Cap and got hit with the same hammer half a second before (like Hela couldn't predict Thor's going to strike and brace even though Thor was constantly attacking her with lightning, and did so moments before).

2. Thanos can't brace also because you can't brace when you're fighting and hammer strike to the chin can lift 300 kg of his weight off ground easily.

Yet he could brace and not get sent flying by every single Mjolnir hit while Hela somehow couldn't. Agree he had more time to prepare for lightning strike but it's not like Hela (or Thanos to Mjolnir strikes) couldn't react on time either.

Surtur's crown was the only part of his body that seemed relatively intact. Sparks of lava were falling from rest of his body all the time so that's why assume the crown is harder to damage. And no, his durability isn't the best in MCU/DCEU cause as I said Hulk can make visable (though small) damage without hurting his own fists, meaning Hulk's body > Surtur's crown in durability (only Surtur's size & strength put him ahead of rest of high-tiers). And about Surtur's size, does durability grow proportionately with it in this instance? If you're assuming so, then Hulk hits thousands of times harder than Mjolnir which is absurd.

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Johndeyvido

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#68  Edited By Johndeyvido

@nn5:

You are confusing even yourself at this point. It is already established that you can't always judge striking in the mcu based on how far the opponent is moved otherwise Thanos is even weaker than Hulkbuster since Hulk wasn't sent flying by Thanos punches even though Thanos punches did more visible damage.

To aid consistency, it either you agree with what I've said above or we use how far your punches can move your opponent as standard for strength. You cannot pick and chose based on your convenience.

Thor's unarmed punch barely moving Hulk means nothing since Thanos punches was also barely moving him.

The difference between unarmed punches and armed strikes by Thor isn't substantial. You keep mentioning momentum and all that, Thor didn't even jump high enough to make that much difference since we know Thor can jump almost as high as Hulk can plus Thor was holding back seeing as immediately Hulk caught the hammer, he started smiling indicating he wasn't taking the fight seriously. You keep assuming I'm saying that the hammer strike was weak but No I only meant the hammer strike wasn't his best and doesn't indicate Hulk is 2X stronger than Thor.

Thor's lightning strikes are judged based on visuals in the mcu atleast the bigger the bolt the more powerful the lightning is. It's common sense. You cannot compare sparks of electricity coming off Thor's axe to the lightning he used in joutenhium in Thor 1, or the Sokovia lightning, Vs Malekith, charging Tony's suit in EG, that big bolt Vs Hela etc it's just not possible those sparks that were hitting Thanos have no feats otherwise provide them.

Like I said, you already have your power level in your mind otherwise why would you think Thanos was 3X stronger than Thor in IW since they didn't fight each other onscreen for you to make that conclusion? I will say this again neither Thanos nor Hulk have feats to prove they are 2X as strong as Thor even 1.5X is overrating it.

On the Hela/Thanos comparison, you are the person that came up with the analysis in the first place by saying Hela cannot be more durable than Thanos since Thor's lightning was able to lift her off the ground while Thanos withstood Cap's lightning a little before falling over. Again Hela was "LIFTED-UP OFF" the ground, she doesn't weighs as much as Thanos hell she probably weighs 1/6th of Thanos mass so it's easier to lift Hela than Thanos so I hope this settles that arguments.

Strength and durability is positively correlated ie the stronger you are, the more durable you are it's simple common sense. Surtur at 4km is stronger, more durable than Surtur at 800m, similar to how Giant man was bigger in endgame than Civil War and was by that logic and feat stronger. Like I said before, the crown itself have no durability level we can objectively measure. Who do you think is more durable than Surtur in the mcu/dceu?

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nn5

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@johndeyvido: Of course we can't always take that as proof but here we have same director, same movie and the same scene. Punch doesn't move Hulk (and doesn't even really faze him), moments later after Mjolnir strike he's sent flying and dazed. But yeah, there's no big gap according to you. Plus you've used Thor sending Hulk flying with hammer strike in Ragnarok as proof of him being capable of doing so with his own strength - and here we have two movies with two different directors that may have different style of showing fights.

About Thor using more momentum - of course he can jump higher and for larger distances but how jumping with full strength and landing at least few hundred meters away from Hulk would help him here. He added up as much power as situation allowed to do so, plus swinged the hammer above his head - clearely indicates Thor doing his best.

I'm not comparing sparks to sky lightning blasts lol, just due to lightning cloak. I've already said sky blasts =/= cloak.

I assumed Thanos is 3x stronger because he effortlessly overpowered Hulk (and was said to be as strong or even stronger many times by Russos). Here we're getting back to core of our disagreement which is Ragnarok arena fight. And judging solely from EG showings 1.5 is perfectly correct, other than that how Thanos could hold off Thor (with 2 weapons and lightning - but let's not count that here) with Thor only slowly overpowering his arm. This situation measures their realtive strength far better than the one in which Thanos was sadistically smiling cause here they both clearely used full strength (and not only Thor).

She was lifted off the ground because she couldn't resist the force of the blast that pushed her. It's not like Thor grabbed her from below and only lifted 50 kg of her weight or so while she couldn't counter. And I think we'll both agree that Thor's blasts have enough force to push either 50 or 300 kg (or even much, much more) of weight easily if no bracing is involved.

So how Hulk managed to create sparks of Surtur's crown without hurting his own fists while each Mjolnir hit didn't break small Surtur's crown when Surtur was thousand times smaller (and by what you assume less durable)? I think the material Surtur's body is made of doesn't really change based on that, only his weight, size, strength do. He's pretty much stronger than anyone in MCU/DCEU but his body isn't as dense and hard to damage as that of many high-tiers (Hulk and above) by feats.

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RajjarsAlt

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@nn5: I mean, he did no-sell that multi-mountain busting shockwave

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nn5

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@rajjarsalt: And didn't absolutely no-sell Hulk's punches. It might mean that Hulk can tank that shockwave as well IMO (though Hulk certainly wouldn't stand unmoved against the shockwave as he has no strength or weight on that level, just wouldn't be hurt).

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RajjarsAlt

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#72  Edited By RajjarsAlt

@nn5 said:

@rajjarsalt: And didn't absolutely no-sell Hulk's punches. It might mean that Hulk can tank that shockwave as well IMO (though Hulk certainly wouldn't stand unmoved against the shockwave as he has no strength or weight on that level, just wouldn't be hurt).

Well, that was 4km Surtur at the peak of his power, who had one-shot Hela while growing. He was barely getting moved by Hela's pikes, which were building sized and enhanced with magic (the substance used to make her weapons)

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nn5

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@rajjarsalt: Still there is no proof that his durability increased while he grew. He's made from the same lava-like matter all the time, and Hulk isn't striking that much harder than Mjolnir to hurt 1000 times larger (and, by what you assume, more durable) Surtur.

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RajjarsAlt

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#74  Edited By RajjarsAlt

@nn5 said:

@rajjarsalt: Still there is no proof that his durability increased while he grew. He's made from the same lava-like matter all the time, and Hulk isn't striking that much harder than Mjolnir to hurt 1000 times larger (and, by what you assume, more durable) Surtur.

Surtur wasn't exactly hurt from that hit, nor would I claim that Hulk would hurt 4km Surtur - and this composition argument doesn't make sense. The only thing that pierced Surtur was a magically enhanced blade.

I don't know if they put durability into the equation, but Surtur's power grew as he grew. At first, his hits were taking out city blocks, but then he one-shot Hela and wiped the city just by plunging his sword into the landmass. He went from being moved by Hulk to not even registering the initial bust. Hulk doesn't scale from Surtur's best durability feat.

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nn5

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#75  Edited By nn5

@rajjarsalt: If Surtur's durability was changing proprtionately to size and strength, then Mjolnir should one-shot him with very first hit when he was small or Hulk shouldn't even scratch him when he was large.

Why composition doesn't make sense? Maybe it will sound stupid but e.g. we have a small, 1 kg steel cube and 1 ton cube from the same steel. Someone can scratch their surface applying the same force while larger cube won't get carried away by wind that easily lifts the smaller one. Same for Surtur, he got much larger and heavier so it makes sense why Hulk's strike could move him and shockwave didn't at all. At the same time, it doesn't mean that smaller Surtur (or Hulk) would be damaged by that shockwave even though they'll get moved by it.

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RajjarsAlt

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@nn5 said:

@rajjarsalt: If Surtur's durability was changing proprtionately to size and strength, then Mjolnir should one-shot him with very first hit when he was small or Hulk shouldn't even scratch him when he was large.

Why composition doesn't make sense? Maybe it will sound stupid but e.g. we have a small, 1 kg steel cube and 1 ton cube from the same steel. Someone can scratch their surface applying the same force while larger cube won't get carried away by wind that easily lifts the smaller one. Same for Surtur, he got much larger and heavier so it makes sense why Hulk's strike could move him and shockwave didn't at all. At the same time, it doesn't mean that smaller Surtur (or Hulk) would be damaged by that shockwave even though they'll get moved by it.

Or perhaps Hulk strikes harder than Mjolnir in some cases?

Well, Hulk was able to move the 800m Surtur, but final form Surtur is so much bigger than that. He got large and heavier than the time when Hulk hit him by far.

To imagine the sheer magnitude in size, here's final form Surtur being compared to KoTM Godzilla.

No Caption Provided

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RajjarsAlt

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@nn5 What's the actual argument, though?

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Johndeyvido

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@nn5:

Like seriously I give up, you just keep spinning around. How can you even compare a jab to a full mljnoir swing or even a haymaker? That punch you say didn't faze him caused Hulk to spin around but sure go on with your lowballing.

The problem with the lightning arguments is you have said already that all lightning not called from the sky is lightning cloak, a false assessment but not the topic of discussion today. I also asked that you provide feat for sparks coming from his axe and I'm waiting.

Like I said, Thanos being 1.5X stronger is even stretching it otherwise Thor would not have been able to bring him down to his knees even though Thanos was using one arm. A more accurate scaling would be 1.2X but it's not really relevant to our discussion.

Let me ask you a simple question. Does human antman have the same density and durability as his giant sized form? Hint: of course not, the giant sized form was tanking missiles from war machine/iron man but the human sized one would be one-shotted from even a bullet and both versions have the same flesh and blood so apply the same logic to Surtur.

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Johndeyvido

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@nn5 said:

@rajjarsalt: If Surtur's durability was changing proprtionately to size and strength, then Mjolnir should one-shot him with very first hit when he was small or Hulk shouldn't even scratch him when he was large.

Like I also said before , you have your own power levels separate from the mcu. Let me ask you why you assume mljnoir should one-shot the smaller version? Hulk also didn't go anything to Surtur, Surtur flicking him off dazed him so you can imagine if Surtur actually hit him hard. Surtur is made of lava, so punching him will cause sparks even if they don't hurt him like Hulk didn't.

Durability changes proportional to strength ceteris paribus. I have given you Antman and Giant man as a perfect example, Giant man was far more durable than normal Antman.

Why composition doesn't make sense? Maybe it will sound stupid but e.g. we have a small, 1 kg steel cube and 1 ton cube from the same steel. Someone can scratch their surface applying the same force while larger cube won't get carried away by wind that easily lifts the smaller one. Same for Surtur, he got much larger and heavier so it makes sense why Hulk's strike could move him and shockwave didn't at all. At the same time, it doesn't mean that smaller Surtur (or Hulk) would be damaged by that shockwave even though they'll get moved by it.

Yes your analogy does sound stupid(both giant man and Antman are made of flesh and blood, yet Giantman is tiers more durable than Normal Antman) . You don't really get the sort of power you need to destroy one mountain talk more of a chain of mountains. Hulk/Thanos/Thor/dceu superman would all likely die to that amount of blunt force. So yes Surtur is indeed the most durable by feats in the mcu/dceu.

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@johndeyvido: @nn5:

When you're fighting with bloodlust, you're obviously putting a lot more force. In A1 Thor was holding back against Hulk that is undeniable... implied by dialogue and also the fact that he jumped on his back to restrain him with Mjolnir - that's a completely non offensive move not meant to harm - so it's clear his goal was to restrain him, and protect the airship. Even the way he throws the hammer at Hulk is almost Playful compared to the way he throws it at Frost giants, Malekith etc...it doesn't even qualify as a throw if you look at it.

Ragnarok is not that much different, name me a serious fighter who delivers one liners in between his punches. After some major blows, Thor gave Hulk time to get back on his feet instead of charging at him. This happens 3 times.

Hulk's bigger size gives him the physical advantage over Thor more than the matter of strength. If you're fist is half the size of your opponents body you can ragdoll them much easier.

Obviously Thor hits him hard, just not near his full capacity.

Look at the shot in which Thanos tries to bury the axe in Thor with one hand...Thor stops it, and now slow it down and look at Thanos' expression and the way his arm vibrates back and forth - it's pretty clear that at this instance he was putting his all into it. If he was clearly twice as strong, that wouldn't have happened.

Thanos>Hulk>Thor...but the strength difference is not worth sweating over.

Thor can potentially boost his physicals over the other two if the all fathers bestow him strength.

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@vrrzz:

Finally someone gets it. Thor was holding back against Hulk both in the hellicarier and on Sakaar.

It's good that someone else understands my point, the strength difference among Thanos, Hulk and Thor isn't as big as people on CV are putting it. nn5 even said by infinity war he was sure Thanos was 3X stronger than Thor and Hulk is twice as strong as Thor.

Like you've said, size difference matters a lot. Thanos & Hulk are clearly bigger than Thor and due to that they can apply more force to a bigger area than Thor can.

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Vrrzz

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Seriously who voted for Ultron...

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@johndeyvido: Obviously we can't compare the two because unarmed one didn't knock Hulk back or slow him down while Mjolnir strike did so (while Hulk was charging at Thor, adding to that) and dazed him for a short while.

So what else lightning around SB would be if not lightning cloak? The fact that this time it surrounded SB and not some Asgardian sword or Thor's body like in Ragnarok (because that's the main difference between them) is absurd way to determine it's some new entirely different kind of lightning. So no, sparks don't even need feats of their own because they scale to other displays of lightning cloak. The fact that Thanos withstood sky lightning blast from Cap sent to him through Mjolnir for a while connects well with the fact that he could stand lightning cloak in form of said sparks even better, though you'll still going to dismiss Cap feat cause 'Hela couldn't brace'.

Thanos is only slightly (1.2x) stronger than Thor? Let's not count my interpretation of Ragnarok arena feat for a while. You've already said few times that the hammer strike Hulk caught was strong, just not Thor's strongest. So how strong is Hulk in your opinion, given he can catch 'strong' two-hand strike from Thor with his one? As strong as Thor, 1.1 times stronger than Thor? Because if Thanos is only 1.2 times stronger then there's no much room for Hulk between, and I think we'll both agree there is clear gap between Thor & Hulk and Hulk & Thanos (regardless of how big it is).

Even with EG showings alone, Thanos could hold off Thor's two arms with his one for quite a while, certainly not an indication that Thor is almost as strong. Adding to that Thanos KO'd Thor with 7-8 strikes, while Hulk (right after his arguably best strength showing against Thor in Ragnarok, didn't do anything with much more strikes, Kurse only dazed him with larger number of hits as well). Saying 1.2 times is extreme lowball tbh.

Mjolnir only created sparks with single hit while hitting Surtur. Hulk did exactly the same against Surtur who's thousand times larger, and by your definition more durable. Dismissing Hulk being able to hit 1000x times harder than Mjolnir isn't having power level made up in mind, won't you agree? Of course, Hulk could only make surface wounds (so nothing serious) because how huge Surtur is. At no point I said Hulk had a chance against Surtur, just that his durability is better (while he's ouclassed in size & strength) so him throwing Hulk with little force doesn't mean much here. Ant-Man is different character, powered by Pym tech and not by otherwordly magic but yes, I'd give Surtur benefit of the doubt and assume his durability grows with size if feats didn't indicate otherwise.

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nn5

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@rajjarsalt: Argument is that Surtur's durability doesn't change proportionately to size (as Hulk could do the same kind of damage to 1000 times larger Surtur than Mjolnir was doing). He isn't hitting that much harder than Mjolnir (though I don't rule out he might hit somewhat harder sometimes, though not sure if there are feats to back it up).

And what you say about final Surtur being heavier and larger than one Hulk moved exactly proves my point. Like in the example with steel cubes - smaller, 1 kg one can be sent flying by a stronger burst of wind which won't move 1 t cube of same composition while their durability is exactly the same.

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Thanos and hela

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SufferedToker

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#86  Edited By SufferedToker

@johndeyvido: Speaking of that Kurse backhand scene there was nothing impressive about that. Mjolnir was moving at human speed and Kurse had to twist his whole body to simply bat it away which wasn't even far. Overrated feat for a overrated character.

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#87  Edited By SufferedToker

@johndeyvido: LOL. Yeah you're wrong on basically every level, good job.

No Caption Provided

When Hela beat Thor she was using weapons to do that not strength.

No Caption Provided

Thor never even landed one blow on Thanos while Thanos only needed 7 hits to KO Thor.

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Johndeyvido

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@sufferedtoker:

Maybe next time read the thread before jumping in. Point out where I said Hela beat Thor using strength, I even specifically said she didn't hit Thor at all.

Thor not landing a hit on Thanos is irrelevant to how strong Thor or Thanos is. Thanos was just more skilled than Thor hence why he couldn't tag Thanos and the plot armor Thanos had in endgame.

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@nn5 said:

@johndeyvido: Obviously we can't compare the two because unarmed one didn't knock Hulk back or slow him down while Mjolnir strike did so (while Hulk was charging at Thor, adding to that) and dazed him for a short while.

But you keep comparing them to support ur theory that Thor's unarmed punches are way weaker than his hits with weapons. There's enough evidence for this which you keep ignoring. Thor hitting hulk with that hammer in the arena sent him flying despite the walls slowing Hulk down and that hammer wasn't mystical so his strength contributed to atleast 95% of the feat.

So what else lightning around SB would be if not lightning cloak? The fact that this time it surrounded SB and not some Asgardian sword or Thor's body like in Ragnarok (because that's the main difference between them) is absurd way to determine it's some new entirely different kind of lightning. So no, sparks don't even need feats of their own because they scale to other displays of lightning cloak. The fact that Thanos withstood sky lightning blast from Cap sent to him through Mjolnir for a while connects well with the fact that he could stand lightning cloak in form of said sparks even better, though you'll still going to dismiss Cap feat cause 'Hela couldn't brace'.

Like I said, you already have your definition for LC which is wrong. The entire point of Ragnarok is to establish Thor's lightning is inside him, he actually didn't need a weapon to channel them. Thor was firing lightning blasts at Hela not "lightning cloak" like you keep wrongly assuming.

Thanos is only slightly (1.2x) stronger than Thor? Let's not count my interpretation of Ragnarok arena feat for a while. You've already said few times that the hammer strike Hulk caught was strong, just not Thor's strongest. So how strong is Hulk in your opinion, given he can catch 'strong' two-hand strike from Thor with his one? As strong as Thor, 1.1 times stronger than Thor? Because if Thanos is only 1.2 times stronger then there's no much room for Hulk between, and I think we'll both agree there is clear gap between Thor & Hulk and Hulk & Thanos (regardless of how big it is).

@Vrrzz Already explains this, perhaps you can go over his arguments. You don't even need to be stronger than someone to block a strike from the person, just being as strong as the person is all you need sometimes. You are also ignoring the size difference between Thor and Hulk which allows Hulk to leverage his strength better. The difference in strength between hulk and Thor isn't big enough to make a huge difference that's not including his rage boost which we can't quantify.

Even with EG showings alone, Thanos could hold off Thor's two arms with his one for quite a while, certainly not an indication that Thor is almost as strong. Adding to that Thanos KO'd Thor with 7-8 strikes, while Hulk (right after his arguably best strength showing against Thor in Ragnarok, didn't do anything with much more strikes, Kurse only dazed him with larger number of hits as well). Saying 1.2 times is extreme lowball tbh.

The EG showings is exactly why we know Thanos isn't 1.5X stronger than Thor. Thor bringing Thanos to his knee showed Thanos wasn't as strong as CV would have us believe. If Thanos was 50% stronger than Thor then Thor would have never brought him to his knee even if Thanos used one arm.

Thanos KO'ing Thor quicker than Hulk or Kurse shows his striking abilities and skill level . The same reason Thanos could also KO Hulk very quickly, his skill level. Thanos used precise strikes that maximises his hits sth a monster who only knows smashing wouldn't understand (Kurse and Hulk) and this is confirmed by the directors saying Thanos and Hulk were on the same level of strength but Thanos used his advanced skill level to win their fight.

“I would say that he’s just that powerful. You didn’t see him actively use the power stone in that fight. I think ultimately, the way we looked at that fight and the way talked about it with our stunt team when we were executing it was Hulk is obviously very powerful, but he’s a little mindless in his fighting style. It’s aggressive, it’s pummeling. Thanos is the Ghengis Kahn of the universe, he’s a very skilled fighter, equally as strong. So when you put those two up against each other, the more skilled fighter is going to win ultimately. Which is why Hulk has a moment where he overpowers Thanos, but ultimately Thanos is smart.”

Thanos being 1.2X stronger means he's 20% stronger than Thor which I believe is fair enough.

Mjolnir only created sparks with single hit while hitting Surtur. Hulk did exactly the same against Surtur who's thousand times larger, and by your definition more durable. Dismissing Hulk being able to hit 1000x times harder than Mjolnir isn't having power level made up in mind, won't you agree? Of course, Hulk could only make surface wounds (so nothing serious) because how huge Surtur is. At no point I said Hulk had a chance against Surtur, just that his durability is better (while he's ouclassed in size & strength) so him throwing Hulk with little force doesn't mean much here. Ant-Man is different character, powered by Pym tech and not by otherwordly magic but yes, I'd give Surtur benefit of the doubt and assume his durability grows with size if feats didn't indicate otherwise.

I don't know the point you are trying to make here perhaps you could articulate your thoughts a bit better.

Thor killed the Surtur he encountered, Hulk did nothing to the Surtur he encountered so how exactly do you scale the two events from each other since we have no established level for the Surtur Thor faced because that would provide a base level.

Let's make sths clear for future discussion; the Surtur hulk faced wasn't 1000X larger and Hulk didn't hurt that Surtur at all so that should be clear.

Concerning your strength and durability arguments, let me ask you some questions; are you stronger and more durable currently than when you were a baby? If yes, why is that so? Strength and durability goes hand in hand. That shockwave he nosold would kill or at the very least one-shot Hulk so how in the hell is Hulk more durable.

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SufferedToker

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@johndeyvido:

Maybe next time read the thread before jumping in. Point out where I said Hela beat Thor using strength, I even specifically said she didn't hit Thor at all.

Hela doesn't have a single feat that allows her to put Thor down with six face shots or to break Vibranium with her fingers.

Thor not landing a hit on Thanos is irrelevant to how strong Thor or Thanos is. Thanos was just more skilled than Thor hence why he couldn't tag Thanos and the plot armor Thanos had in endgame.

Thanos effortlessly overpowered Hulk from a disadvantageous position, literally taking Hulk's arms right off and completely destroyed him. He's definitely stronger.

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Johndeyvido

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@sufferedtoker:

She crushed mljnoir at her weakest and that is more than enough.

If you think Thanos is definitely stronger then good for you. According to the directors Hulk and Thanos are equal in strength but Thanos is smarter and more skilled.

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SufferedToker

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#92  Edited By SufferedToker

@johndeyvido:

She crushed mljnoir at her weakest and that is more than enough.

I'm really heavily leaning towards the Mjolnir feat not being natural strength but magic.

If you think Thanos is definitely stronger then good for you. According to the directors Hulk and Thanos are equal in strength but Thanos is smarter and more skilled.

And Hulk is equal to Thanos? Ha stop. In one interview they say they are equally as strong. In another, he is stronger than The Hulk, and in the novel, it is implied he overpowers him.

No Caption Provided

Hulk wouldn't have ever landed a single blow if it wasn't for the surprise attack.

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Johndeyvido

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@sufferedtoker:

Your leanings on her mljnoir feat does not matter if you have no official evidence supporting your theory. I can also say I think Clark pushed a button inside the WE that blew up the ship but that doesn't make it true if I can't back my statement with canon evidence.

Hulk didn't surprise Thanos he actually overpowered him which is in line with the directors statement. Hulk bullrushed him, waited and did the hulk roar before he continued to attack Thanos again and Thanos clearly saw him coming the second time.

Not being able to land a hit is not a strength problem, it's a skill issue. Thanos is far more skilled than Hulk or Thor.

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SufferedToker

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@johndeyvido:

Your leanings on her mljnoir feat does not matter if you have no official evidence supporting your theory. I can also say I think Clark pushed a button inside the WE that blew up the ship but that doesn't make it true if I can't back my statement with canon evidence.

She could easily one-shot Thor just like she one-shotted Mjolnir if that's the case. Both Thanos and Hela fought Thor, and Thanos overpowered Prime Thor easier than she did.

Hulk didn't surprise Thanos he actually overpowered him which is in line with the directors statement. Hulk bullrushed him, waited and did the hulk roar before he continued to attack Thanos again and Thanos clearly saw him coming the second time.

There's no "overpowering" in that scene. I think that this is just a case of directors contradicting themselves, which is fairly common.

Not being able to land a hit is not a strength problem, it's a skill issue. Thanos is far more skilled than Hulk or Thor.

Thanos dominated Hulk in a way CBM characters usually don't get dominated.

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nn5

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@johndeyvido: And you keep ignoring that Hulk's strength isn't always at the same level. I'm not sure if he was even stronger than Thor at the start of Ragnarok fight. Here we got 1 scene, two of this strikes happen in very quick succession so we can make a comparison.

If Thor's lightning was 'inside him' why would he bother to ever call it from the sky in Ragnarok and later? Obviously he can generate some lightning (the cloak) out of himself but his sky lightning blasts were shown to he more powerful. The point is he can call them without Mjolnir now.

Still one hand blocked two hand strike. It might agree Hulk's size gives him advantage in striking but here Thor used two hands and hammer, and Hulk still dead stopped it. Even if we keep with your holding back interpretation, still even later Hulk kept punching Thor while Thor was helpless and slowly losing conciousness (up until the point he got lightning boost). It's honestly having power level made up when you see someone beating up someone else do hard that he can't land a single hit, and claim the one who's winning is barely stronger.

What specific skill Thanos used while punching Thor? He was just hitting Thor's face, like Kurse or Hulk did but online them he was quickly building damage. And this statement shouldn't be brought up as 1) we saw Thanos overpower Hulk in direct strength contest in that very scene when he pushed away his arms, 2) other statements from Russos say Thanos is stronger so they aren't even consistent with that, in which case we may only base on what's on-screen. Maybe Hulk wasn't at his strongest at the point and he can get as strong as Thanos but in this scene it's pretty straightforward.

So you don't see sparks falling off Surtur's crown after Hulk's punches? And marks the punches left? Surtur is huge so Hulk couldn't do more than give him surface wounded before he get thrown away but the fact that he could damage Surtur's 'skin' while not damaging his own fists with these strikes is the thing that matters. For example, can you hit a piece of iron and make sparks out of it, while not feeling pain or breaking your hand? So it obviously shows Hulk's durability. And Surtur isn't a human, normally I'd assume that in his case it works like that as well but Hulk moment contradicts it. By other feats indeed Hulk can't tank that shockwave so either it wasn't well thought out by director/visual team or this feat actually shows his high end.

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Johndeyvido

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@johndeyvido:

She could easily one-shot Thor just like she one-shotted Mjolnir if that's the case. Both Thanos and Hela fought Thor, and Thanos overpowered Prime Thor easier than she did.

Clark could have one-shotted batman in BvS but didn't, I wonder why? She wasn't trying to kill Thor asides the bifrost skirmish. She didn't even punch him throughout the whole movie and only tagged Thor where it wasn't immediately fatal with her blades . Thanos also didn't overpower Thor easier than she did, Thanos struggled to overpower Thor but not her.

There's no "overpowering" in that scene. I think that this is just a case of directors contradicting themselves, which is fairly common.

Except Hulk did so, so are you suggesting Thanos allowed himself to be hit continuously by Hulk for fun sake?

Thanos dominated Hulk in a way CBM characters usually don't get dominated.

They both landed almost equal no of hits but Thanos being a more skilled fighter knew exactly where to hit and targeted soft areas; throat, stomach etc

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Johndeyvido

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@nn5 said:

@johndeyvido:

And you keep ignoring that Hulk's strength isn't always at the same level. I'm not sure if he was even stronger than Thor at the start of Ragnarok fight. Here we got 1 scene, two of this strikes happen in very quick succession so we can make a comparison.

I have already agreed that Hulk and Thanos are both stronger than Thor, the disagreement is on how much "stronger". We can't compare two different types of strikes, a jab is different from a haymaker or an uppercut. I'm sure you watch boxing so this part shouldn't even be discussed.

If Thor's lightning was 'inside him' why would he bother to ever call it from the sky in Ragnarok and later? Obviously he can generate some lightning (the cloak) out of himself but his sky lightning blasts were shown to he more powerful. The point is he can call them without Mjolnir now.

He calls it down from the sky for more power and versatility but he can fire lightning bolts from his body. We won't agree on your definition of lighting cloak so don't bother.

Still one hand blocked two hand strike. It might agree Hulk's size gives him advantage in striking but here Thor used two hands and hammer, and Hulk still dead stopped it. Even if we keep with your holding back interpretation, still even later Hulk kept punching Thor while Thor was helpless and slowly losing conciousness (up until the point he got lightning boost). It's honestly having power level made up when you see someone beating up someone else do hard that he can't land a single hit, and claim the one who's winning is barely stronger.

The hammer isn't relevant like you are claiming. His strength is what makes the hammer relevant or do you think Bucky can replicate Thor's hammer strike in the arena which sent Hulk flying? Thor was helpless for a while because Hulk was pressing his momentary advantage sth Thor didn't do because he was holding back. Thanos was also helpless for a while until he recovered against Hulk in IW and Thor raised his arm to punch off Hulk but fortunately for him lightning came out of his fist. Like I said Hulk is stronger but not enough to make a huge difference.

What specific skill Thanos used while punching Thor? He was just hitting Thor's face, like Kurse or Hulk did but online them he was quickly building damage. And this statement shouldn't be brought up as 1) we saw Thanos overpower Hulk in direct strength contest in that very scene when he pushed away his arms, 2) other statements from Russos say Thanos is stronger so they aren't even consistent with that, in which case we may only base on what's on-screen. Maybe Hulk wasn't at his strongest at the point and he can get as strong as Thanos but in this scene it's pretty straightforward.

Knowing how to throw a punch is a skill in itself or you think professional boxers aren't skilled? Boxers spend years learning how to throw a good punch because anyone can throw a punch but a boxer can punch better. So you disagree with the directors even when the feat supports them. Thanos might be slightly stronger than Hulk but it was his skill that made the obvious difference in their confrontation. Thanos >Hulk >Thor but the difference between Thanos and Thor should be 20-25% nothing more.

So you don't see sparks falling off Surtur's crown after Hulk's punches? And marks the punches left? Surtur is huge so Hulk couldn't do more than give him surface wounded before he get thrown away but the fact that he could damage Surtur's 'skin' while not damaging his own fists with these strikes is the thing that matters. For example, can you hit a piece of iron and make sparks out of it, while not feeling pain or breaking your hand? So it obviously shows Hulk's durability. And Surtur isn't a human, normally I'd assume that in his case it works like that as well but Hulk moment contradicts it. By other feats indeed Hulk can't tank that shockwave so either it wasn't well thought out by director/visual team or this feat actually shows his high end.

Hulk punches caused sparks to fall off because he was made of lava do I don't know how that's an anti-feat for Surtur perhaps you can explain that. Quill, Spiderman were all able to hit Thanos and not damage their fists or break their bones so does that mean Thanos is weak and isn't more durable than any of them.

Hulk ''damaged his skin" because his skin is made of Lava. The funny thing is you admit Surtur is stronger than Hulk just not more durable so let me pose another question to you. Do you know of any character that is super strong but not super durable?

So now you want to discredit Surtur durability like Hela's strength because it doesn't fit in the level you want. Surtur wasn't disturbed at all by a shockwave that shattered mountains apart but it's not well-thought out or his high end according to you because hulk could punch him and not break his arms? This is lowballing at it purest form.

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SufferedToker

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@johndeyvido:

Clark could have one-shotted batman in BvS but didn't, I wonder why? She wasn't trying to kill Thor asides the bifrost skirmish. She didn't even punch him throughout the whole movie and only tagged Thor where it wasn't immediately fatal with her blades . Thanos also didn't overpower Thor easier than she did, Thanos struggled to overpower Thor but not her.

Kurse couldn't even KO a Thor who got a nose bleed from one punch by the Hulk lmao.

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This shows that they're massively weaker. Thanos KO'd Thor in 5 hits, Kurse and Hela didn't come close. Kurse and Hela aren't on Thanos level in terms of strength. They don't have feats.

Except Hulk did so, so are you suggesting Thanos allowed himself to be hit continuously by Hulk for fun sake?

Hulk wasn't doing anything to Thanos with his punches. Stop talking out of your ass.

They both landed almost equal no of hits but Thanos being a more skilled fighter knew exactly where to hit and targeted soft areas; throat, stomach etc

No, I'm afraid not since Hulk doesn't have any striking feats on par with Thanos'. Kurse had to twist his whole go move it maybe 15 feet away. Not impressive. Why couldn't Thanos replicate it?

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Johndeyvido

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@sufferedtoker:

Show me where Hela hit Thor with punches and failed to KO him. Thanos also didn't KO Thor in 5hits and I didn't say Hulk or Kurse can punch better than Thanos so I don't even know what you are arguing for exactly and if all you have is to continue spewing half-truths please don't tag me again.

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@johndeyvido:

Show me where Hela hit Thor with punches and failed to KO him.

She was punching him and was never able to KO him.

Thanos also didn't KO Thor in 5hits

You're right, he needed seven hits.

and I didn't say Hulk or Kurse can punch better than Thanos so I don't even know what you are arguing for exactly

How many times do I have to explain to you that Thanos was never in a position to redirect Mjolnir the way Kurse was before you get it? Explain why he shouldn't be able to replicate it.

if all you have is to continue spewing half-truths please don't tag me again.

If you can show me Hela actually using her physical strength to beat Thor without the use of weapons then do it. The Mjolnir feat is not a physical one.