Who are the top three most underrated SW characters in terms of power

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Ieatnettles

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Top 3

Canon

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Ieatnettles

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Callouts: @frozen,@dirtyluna,@jedisympathiz3r,@emmafrostxmen,

@daddyprometheus,@sheevsmacker,@void_reborn,@alextheboss,

@mr-yes,@thebluedragon20,@turtleman1878,@gangorca,

@warlockmage,

heiqn,@eredin12,@ready_4_madness,@marvelfan1992,

@angelica10,@lightyagamigod2,@xmen5ever,@maulsmacker,

@hellothere5432,@uhu123,

@sonofdarkness,@the_swaggot,@landon_rogers00

@joshua755,,,,

@justinlinnerman,

@purplehairedni1,@jedisympathiz3r,@achillesspawn

,@ready_4_madness,@lightyagamigod2,@heiqn,@cryolancer47,

,@kataraaaa,@infinitysquid,@x-lord16,@death4bunnies,@alphamon,

@joker567892,@achillesspawn,, ,@mossbeard,

,@lightordark,@thenamel

essone,@krisbishop,,

@thebestofthebest,@jurance,@macattack1,@shroudofsorrow,

@kaijuking,

@cupofreality1,@atrocitus12,@pandalumina,@wordsbeyondfic0,

@ultimateasskick,

@fangdanerd, ,@j_normal,@ben2004,@officer_batman,@lupy8, ,@deuce,@great_darkness,@triplek,@whatamiseeing,

@gaoron,@kal_el_batson,@the_swaggot,@boutat

akeanl,

@novaprime2,@samjackson, @dipppy, @RedSithDisciple

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Ieatnettles

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OWK/rebels Vader is definitely one of mine

ANH Vader is also probably one of mine

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frozen

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#4 frozen  Moderator

Vader, Luke and Obi Wan.

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Straight-Fire

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Ahsoka, Ahsoka, Ahsoka

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tagsorwhatever

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#6  Edited By tagsorwhatever

EU ---> Darth Vader, Darth Vader and Darth Vader

Canon ---> Darth Tyranus, Rebels/Disney Ahsoka and General Grievous.

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Straight-Fire

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Ieatnettles

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#8  Edited By Ieatnettles
@tagsorwhatever said:

EU ---> Darth Vader, Darth Vader and Darth Vader

Canon ---> Darth Tyranus, Rebels/Disney Ahsoka and General Grievous.

No way you said tyranus

He's a stomp gap beneath OWK Vader and beyond (and also mfv)

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frozen

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#9 frozen  Moderator

@frozen: who underrates them?

I think people underrate the gaps in canon. So these 3 are held high but sometimes people lowball the extent of their power and superiority over other characters.

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tagsorwhatever

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@tagsorwhatever said:

EU ---> Darth Vader, Darth Vader and Darth Vader

Canon ---> Darth Tyranus, Rebels/Disney Ahsoka and General Grievous.

No way you said tyranus

He's a stomp gap beneath OWK Vader and beyond (and also mfv)

Yeah he is massively lowballed, agreed.

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Eredin12

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EU ---> Darth Vader, Darth Vader and Darth Vader

Canon ---> Darth Tyranus, Rebels/Disney Ahsoka and General Grievous.

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CryoLancer47

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#12  Edited By CryoLancer47

I'd say Pre-RoTJ Luke (dude's pretty powerful and decently skilled by feats) Qui-Gon and Ventress/Savage/Shaak Ti/pre-Ahsoka Ezra (I don't know who to go with for the third option)

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Not saying they're always lowballed, but I think they deserve more love and respect. Maybe not as much for Shaak & Ezra, since they either don't have that many feats (Shaak) or aren't as powerful or skilled like the rest of the characters here (Ezra).

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frozen

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#13 frozen  Moderator

@cryolancer47:

Ezra is definitely fodder. Has many trash anti feats, all of which are consistent. He is a genuine TPM Obi victim.

Agree on Luke though.

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LightorDark

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Dooku, Yoda, and Leia.

Dooku isn’t getting thrashed by a Vader that Cere pushed. Yoda isn’t getting ragdolled by any FU in the Skywalker Saga, though he may not beat them in a 1v1. Leia has the same potential as Luke, and CV loves Luke.

Overrated: Any post PT version of Sidious, Vader, and Obi Wan. Mustafar Obi Wan and ROTJ Luke, too.

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Supreme101

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#15 Supreme101  Online

halagad Ventor Yarael Poof and Vaylin

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nassergrant19

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nassergrant19

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@frozen said:

Vader, Luke and Obi Wan.

Facts.

Crazy how it’s literally the SW protagonist and dueteroganists lol.

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frozen

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#18  Edited By frozen  Moderator
@lightordark said:

Dooku, Yoda, and Leia.

Dooku isn’t getting thrashed by a Vader that Cere pushed. Yoda isn’t getting ragdolled by any FU in the Skywalker Saga, though he may not beat them in a 1v1. Leia has the same potential as Luke, and CV loves Luke.

Overrated: Any post PT version of Sidious, Vader, and Obi Wan. Mustafar Obi Wan and ROTJ Luke, too.

Dooku lost to Quinlan Vos and begged for his life. What makes you think Vos is inherently > Cere? Seems baseless.

Jedi Survivor devs said that prior archives falling on Vader, he isn‘t going all out.

https://streamable.com/ahtue0

It was a very clear decision from the start for him to only be using one hand with his lightsaber, where he’s kind of like, testing Cere out and he’s not sure and he’s not sure yet if he needs to take her seriously.And then you see after the archives come down on him, it’s two hands all the way after that. That’s when he gets serious

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Ieatnettles

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@ieatnettles said:
@tagsorwhatever said:

EU ---> Darth Vader, Darth Vader and Darth Vader

Canon ---> Darth Tyranus, Rebels/Disney Ahsoka and General Grievous.

No way you said tyranus

He's a stomp gap beneath OWK Vader and beyond (and also mfv)

Yeah he is massively lowballed, agreed.

How do u think dooku vs OWK/rebels Vader go

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Ieatnettles

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Dooku, Yoda, and Leia.

Dooku isn’t getting thrashed by a Vader that Cere pushed. Yoda isn’t getting ragdolled by any FU in the Skywalker Saga, though he may not beat them in a 1v1. Leia has the same potential as Luke, and CV loves Luke.

Overrated: Any post PT version of Sidious, Vader, and Obi Wan. Mustafar Obi Wan and ROTJ Luke, too.

Dooku gets curbstomped by OWK Vader and beyond

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CryoLancer47

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@frozen: Comparing Ezra to people above Vader isn't a fair comparison tbh.

I do agree that Ezra can't take on someone like TPM Kenobi, but he does deserve more respect within the low-tier of FUs whenever he has a chance to shine. Such as this:

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And this:

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Still, as you said, he's still a fodder with some not-so-good anti-feats. But he deserves credit where credit is due, imo.

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MaulSmacker

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Overrated

  1. Yoda - classic case of people forgetting that debating works on feats and not on names, Yes, Yoda was really strong in the films and the old Legends continuity, guess what? he still is, but to sit down and pretend he can beat any Vader barring ESV is ridiculous, OWK Vader is where Yoda stops, people need to learn to cope with that.
  2. Maul- Guy has no feats, vertabim stated that he didn't have any real growth between SoD and Rebels, TCW version got dogged on by Kenobi, he later lost to Ahsoka and an amped Kanan.
  3. Ahsoka - she knew Vader's style, but still didn't even come close to being a threat or affecting him, got walked down by Vader and then knocked out, people who wank her just don't know how fictional fights are written.

Underrated

  1. Luke Skywalker - apparently being the original hero of Star Wars is so worthless you lose to some old man from side films named Dooku, some irrelevant character with no impact on the series named Windu, are apparently weaker than your own masters and are fodder to characters from objectively bad side films.
  2. Darth Sidious - Meditate for 20 years in a potent Dark Side Nexus, force drain planets, force bleed Kyber Crystals, do feats your previous versions cannot even dream of, stomp people above the PT, just for bozos to pretend you've not grown much, somehow the main villain of Star Wars is lowballed with the hero.
  3. Darth Tyranus - somehow have a mountain of evidence to be beyond characters you fight and to be toying, just for people to pretend S4 Anakin is compareable when later seasons show Dooku destroying Anakin and Kenobi at once easily, Tyranus is above anyone in the verse except Anakin, Yoda, Luke, Kenobi and Sidious.

Underrated (EU)

  1. Darth Vader --> Ugh, people go out and say an average Jedi Knight can take Prime Legends Vader out in a solo match because of some random advertisment statements, people are willing to ignore every showing EU Vader has is because of some GL quotes, when Vader went out a month after Revenge of the Sith, not even used to the suit yet, and still took Eight Jedi Masters simultaneously in a saber duel and had a plethora of great feats in 18BBY.
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Straight-Fire

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Famousroman

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ROTJ Luke, Vos and Sora Bulq, Ventress at certain points in time, MW Revan (I saw a very interesting conversation on this matter the other day), Zannah (go look at Ventress vs Zannah), Ulic, Remulus Dreypa, Sorzus Syn, Andeddu, Siolo Ur Manka, Sedriss and Ood Bnar, Odan Urr.

Not very savvy on Disney stuff though.

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Eredin12

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#25  Edited By Eredin12

@famousroman: I would say Vader is most underrated if we are talking about Legends. You still have some bitter clingers who cling to old and irrelevant Lucas interviews and ignore all feats and published sources to lowball him to the ground.

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Famousroman

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@eredin12 said:

@famousroman: I would say Vader is most underrated if we are talking about Legends. You still have some bitter clingers who cling to old and irrelevant Lucas interviews and ignore all feats and published sources to lowball him to the ground.

Well, you guys, and in general everybody else really, can't separate Lucas from the EU. The Lucas rules applies to the movies and kind of TCW, but not really TCW, and that's kind of it. The EU literally does not care about those interviews to the extent Lucas does, and in some cases, EU writers/authors don't even know it's a thing. They have TFU and Ghost Prison happen with Blackman for example. Complained he couldn't make Vader > Anakin, but that was the only rule he was given.

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Eredin12

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#27  Edited By Eredin12

@famousroman:

Well, you guys, and in general everybody else really, can't separate Lucas from the EU.

I am not sure what you mean by separate. Lucas is no longer the owner of SW, he is no different than any of hundreds of other writers. You cannot " separate" him in sense that his movies are canon to EU, but his private interviews are not. You have multiple confirmations from Martin, Publo and Chee that actual published sources trump any random interviews. My point is that there are still few bitter clingers who still deny that to lowball Vader.

The Lucas rules applies to the movies and kind of TCW, but not really TCW, and that's kind of it.

Lucas rules do not apply anywhere, but given that he is the director, he can clarify some things about his work , not about characters in his work which also appear in works of many other writers, but scenes in his movies specifically, provided that published sources do not state otherwise

The EU literally does not care about those interviews to the extent Lucas does, and in some cases, EU writers/authors don't even know it's a thing.

This is true.

They have TFU and Ghost Prison happen with Blackman for example. Complained he couldn't make Vader > Anakin, but that was the only rule he was given.

Blackman never said that, he said that was Lucas's thought, but never that he agreed with it or could not make it, in fact, he said he even his novel that takes place shortly ater ROTS proves that view wrong. It was never his view of things. EU writers ignored Lucas view generally and did not have to follow it because Lucas did not care about EU.

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Famousroman

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#28  Edited By Famousroman

@eredin12: "Blackman never said that, he said that was Lucas's thought, but never that he agreed with it or could not make it, in fact, he said he even his novel that takes place shortly ater ROTS proves that view wrong. It was never his view of things."

Well, Galen is like, almost 20, and he killed his father after Order 66, not sure how close to ROTS it can be lol

Also, weird to think he went against Lucas like that, but sure.

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Eredin12

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#29  Edited By Eredin12

@famousroman:

Well, Galen is like, almost 20, and he killed his father after Order 66, not sure how close to ROTS it can be lol

I am not sure what you mean tbh, TFU takes place year before new Hope, so it is around 20 years away from ROTS.

Also, weird to think he went against Lucas like that, but sure.

Well not really because Lucas did not consider the EU his universe so EU was allowed to do things differently. Lucas himself said that in his universe, the Emperor does not return, Luke does not get married, and stuff like that, but EU writers did not have to follow it for that reason.

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Supreme101

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#30  Edited By Supreme101  Online

@eredin12: your right about Lucas saying it wasn’t in his vision but the guy wasn’t gonna let it go down the drain completely he was still involved in many aspects sometimes even while stories even just not his vision storyline wise start to finish

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Eredin12

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#31  Edited By Eredin12

@supreme101: My point is that EU was allowed to do things differently than what Lucas personally thought( which was changing), hence all feats and sources that make it very clear that pretty much all EU writers did not share Padawan level Vader view Lucas at some points had. On top of which we have multiple confirmations that actual published sources trump any interviews. But despite that you still have some people who would ignore all of that over few interwiews.

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LightorDark

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@ieatnettles: @frozen: I’m not debating. Just saying my piece. I’ve learned that debating power levels of Star Wars is toxic to the narrative for me. I prefer to enjoy the narrative.

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CryoLancer47

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@maulsmacker:

Luke Skywalker - apparently being the original hero of Star Wars is so worthless you lose to some old man from side films named Dooku, some irrelevant character with no impact on the series named Windu, are apparently weaker than your own masters and are fodder to characters from objectively bad side films.

Darth Sidious - Meditate for 20 years in a potent Dark Side Nexus, force drain planets, force bleed Kyber Crystals, do feats your previous versions cannot even dream of, stomp people above the PT, just for bozos to pretend you've not grown much, somehow the main villain of Star Wars is lowballed with the hero.

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Meanwhile, dudes like Revan & ol' Valpoorion getting a BJ from blind fanboy #69420.

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A_FINE_EDITION

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I'd say some of the lower-tier characters. A couple Inquisitors maybe? Darth Momin? idk, I'm trying to think of characters who don't get a lot of attention on these forums. Dark Disciple Ventress I think is a bit underrated as well (though it's been a while since I read it, and it might be getting mildly retconned).

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frozen

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#35 frozen  Moderator

ROTJ Luke, Vos and Sora Bulq, Ventress at certain points in time, MW Revan (I saw a very interesting conversation on this matter the other day), Zannah (go look at Ventress vs Zannah), Ulic, Remulus Dreypa, Sorzus Syn, Andeddu, Siolo Ur Manka, Sedriss and Ood Bnar, Odan Urr.

Not very savvy on Disney stuff though.

In Disney canon, the scaling is very different.

ROTJ Luke is hard locked much above ROTS Anakin. Vader 10 years after ROTS is able to overpower an Obi Wan who is stated to be back at his ROTS level power, whereas KFV (who isn’t hindered in Disney) can’t do the same to Obi Wan. Also various showrunner statements saying that Kenobi series Vader is > KFV. Disney Vos also slammed Dooku, a few months before ROTS.

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frozen

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#36 frozen  Moderator

@ieatnettles: @frozen: I’m not debating. Just saying my piece. I’ve learned that debating power levels of Star Wars is toxic to the narrative for me. I prefer to enjoy the narrative.

Well you said Dooku isn’t being pushed by Cere, I just informed you of the dev statement + Dooku losing to Vos.

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Ieatnettles

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Wolfrazer

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#38  Edited By Wolfrazer

Ok let's just not repeat this narrative, Lucas did care about the EU, he was involved with multiple projects and we have interviews stating that he has read stuff(comics) and incorporated things into the movies. Let's not keep this whole thing of "Lucas didn't care about the EU" he did, otherwise we wouldn't have some of the stuff we know is EU, in the movies.

Yeah it's separated from his movies in his mind, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about it. He saw it as ours and respected that. The guy knows the EU.

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LightorDark

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#39  Edited By LightorDark
@wolfrazer said:

Ok let's just not repeat this narrative, Lucas did care about the EU, he was involved with multiple projects and we have interviews stating that he has read stuff and incorporated things into the movies. Let's not keep this whole thing of "Lucas didn't care about the EU" he did, otherwise we wouldn't have some of the stuff we know is EU, in the movies.

Yeah it's separated from his movies in his mind, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about it.

Yes, the EU (and legends now) is a great place for the OP crazy feats that are currently getting mixed in with Disney canon.

Disney had a great opportunity after resetting the canon to write good stories and create compelling characters, which they’ve done somewhat, but they’ve also failed in certain areas, too.

Every time Vader defeats an army by himself, rips a ship in half, or crushes a building with a gesture, the narrative suffers. They should make those comics legends and ground the canon.

The reasoning behind this is that the OT and PT exists. If Jedi and Sith began as OP, untouchable entities, then I’d say stay the course. But they didn’t. Luke (who is supposedly equal to prime Vader) struggled with a rancor, a barge full of pirates, and two stormtroopers on speeders. You can’t undo that.

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RedSithDisciple

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#40  Edited By RedSithDisciple

Cal, Obi-Wan, Luke

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Well, every main character has the fervent backing of a group of fans, eagerly interpreting and arguing the existing body of Star Wars material in such a way as to benefit this character to the exclusion of others. In this respect, you could say that any and all of those primary characters are either ridiculously overrated, or tragically underrated -- it all depends on the group of fans in question. I suppose that the most consistently overlooked would be the background/secondary characters, whether Jedi, Sith, or otherwise.

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Wolfrazer

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#42  Edited By Wolfrazer

@lightordark: The biggest issue Canon SW has now, is the blatant retconning of material, mainly thanks to Filoni and other LA shows. There's no cohesion in place to keep things consistent between the shows and everything else the novels and comics seem subject to the whims of the former.

The EU meanwhile, while it did have that, this was in the early stages before things got a handle on and even then, writers adjusted with the PT coming out, they didn't just throw it all out, in fact a lot of references from the early stuff made it into the Republic comics or games, AT-PTs or Republic Dreadnoughts, Jan Dondonna and Gilad Pellaeon as examples.

Thrawn talking about the Clone Wars and Force Users fighting one another within the TT? That would be retroactively fixed with the Siege of Saleucami in the Republic Comics(as far as I recall anyway)

The current SW writers, shouldn't be having to adjust or change things. This isn't the 80s/early 90s anymore with something new as far as a SW EU goes, they should have everything lock and key, not scrambling to fix whatever new show decides to do and ignoring the comics or novels.

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Wolfrazer

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The reasoning behind this is that the OT and PT exists. If Jedi and Sith began as OP, untouchable entities, then I’d say stay the course. But they didn’t. Luke (who is supposedly equal to prime Vader) struggled with a rancor, a barge full of pirates, and two stormtroopers on speeders. You can’t undo that.

Missed this edit.

According to the movie novelization Luke didn't want to even fight the Rancor, Luke knew that the Rancor was mistreated, hungry and in pain. So him 'struggling' is explained as that he just didn't want to actually fight it, only put it out of its misery but at the same time he didn't want to give into his darker aspects.

Luke hardly struggled with a barge full of pirates, he was pretty much going through them. The only time he had issue, was when he was telling Leia what to do and got his hand shot, other than that, there wasn't any issue for him. Both the script and novel of the movie show this, even the movie shows that Luke didn't have any real issue.

Struggling with Scout Troopers?.....A bit of a stretch considering he took them down and I guess you could say he only struggled when he was slamming bikes, but he still destroyed them easy enough.

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Eredin12

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#44  Edited By Eredin12

@wolfrazer:

He saw it as ours and respected that.

This is what I meant as well. Lucas did not saw it as his universe but ours and was fine with people in it doing things he does not agree with, like Emperor coming back and such. My problem is with people who clearly ignore the fact that EU writers were allowed and consistently portrayed Vader as very powerful because of some thing Lucas said in some interview.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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most wanked:

1) dooku

2) anakin

3) vader

most underrated:

1) ahsoka

2) ventress

3) kit fisto

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frozen

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#46 frozen  Moderator
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Wolfrazer

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@eredin12: Ah fair enough, yeah he was perfectly fine with it, I mean if he wasn't, then he would have nipped it in the bud, especially with TFU.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@frozen: i feel that he’s one of the better masters. i’d put him only slightly below ventress in a 1v1

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A_FINE_EDITION

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#49  Edited By A_FINE_EDITION

@emmafrostxmen: @frozen: this is my major problem with Disney canon rn. None of the other Council Members really have any cool content or even feats. They've been completely forgotten and fallen by the wayside. Where's Ki-Adi-Mundi or Shaak Ti's feats? Saesee Tiin? Yarael Poof? Oppo Rancisis? Those last two guys are active during the High Republic as well, yet... nothing. I wanna see them actually do something besides hack and slash a couple droids.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@wolfrazer said:

@lightordark said:

The reasoning behind this is that the OT and PT exists. If Jedi and Sith began as OP, untouchable entities, then I’d say stay the course. But they didn’t. Luke (who is supposedly equal to prime Vader) struggled with a rancor, a barge full of pirates, and two stormtroopers on speeders. You can’t undo that.

Missed this edit.

According to the movie novelization Luke didn't want to even fight the Rancor, Luke knew that the Rancor was mistreated, hungry and in pain. So him 'struggling' is explained as that he just didn't want to actually fight it, only put it out of its misery but at the same time he didn't want to give into his darker aspects.

Luke hardly struggled with a barge full of pirates, he was pretty much going through them. The only time he had issue, was when he was telling Leia what to do and got his hand shot, other than that, there wasn't any issue for him. Both the script and novel of the movie show this, even the movie shows that Luke didn't have any real issue.

Struggling with Scout Troopers?.....A bit of a stretch considering he took them down and I guess you could say he only struggled when he was slamming bikes, but he still destroyed them easy enough.

I would think it's not so much that these circumstances strained him to the limit -- as you note, he was confident and efficiently navigating his way through these trials -- but rather that these were dramatic, genuine action sequences, one of many such adventures in Luke Skywalker's journey as a hero. The young Jedi Knight is not above this sort of general struggle -- he cannot walk into Jabba's Palace, effortlessly deflecting every possible attack, subduing its hostile inhabitants with telekinesis or telepathy. He cannot simply send the Rancor to sleep with a pass of his hand, or calmly subdue the scout troopers with a touch of the Force. He is powerful indeed, but a grounded hero, who could very well die. Even in the prequel trilogy, where George Lucas sought to portray a greater level of ability from the Jedi Knights, he was adamant that they were not superheros -- they were people just like us, and could be killed. They were good, but not fantastic, as he put it.