Which invalid criticism regarding the DCEU annoys you more? "Batman doesn't kill" or "Superman doesn't kill"?

The criticism that "Superman could have found another way" can be simply relegated to story/plot problems. Besides the fact that other live action versions of Superman had broke their "no-kill" rule, the INTENTION for the writing in that particular Man of Steel scene was that "Superman had no choice but to kill". I understand if you think there's a logical issue with Superman killing in that scene, but saying that it "goes against his character" is biased criticism IMO.

These films are the definitive live action verisons of these characters, it's not absurd for people to want them to resemble the comic versions.

BOTH OH MY GOD.Kal threw a powerless Zod to his death in Superman 2. Comic Superman killed the Phantom Zone crew with Kryptonite. Routh Superman let Lex and co. die in the vacuum of space when he tossed that island. There's no valid complaint for MOS Kal killing Zod to save innocent people.

And literally every live action version of Batman save Adam West has killed. Even Arkham Batman's killed, but they only give Batfleck $!it for God knows why.

While I do understand the posts people make about both, especially in regards to thinking the premise could have been handled better, I suppose the Superman complaint bugs me more.

The only two we ever saw DCEU Superman directly kill were Zod and Doomsday. Even taking out the fact that both were characters he also killed in the comics (and this wasn't like Batman using a gun back in the golden age. Zod and Doomsday I'm pretty sure were after Crisis on Infinite Earths), Superman showed clear remorse for killing Zod, which is why I'm more lenient about it. It was something he felt he had to do but it's not something he's proud of himself for doing or ever wants to do again. That's what separates the comic and DCEU version of Superman from the Injustice and Justice Lords versions. Killing is not an easy thing for him to do because Superman is not a psychopath.

Two reasons:

1. BvS came after the Nolan movies, which made a big deal over why Batman doesn't kill, so that's still fresh in people's minds.

2. BvS itself focused on how violent and uncaring Batman was over the injuries and deaths he was causing, as that was a big pat of his character arc through BvS and JL. With all the Superman and Batman movies you listed, when they killed, it was hardly ever focused on, and thus the audience doesn't focus on it either. Same applies whenever an MCU character kills. Even Spider-Man, a character VERY against killing in the comics, is directly responsible for Ebony Maw's death in Infinity War. But no one pays that much mind because the movie doesn't. They're making jokes through the scene and then they move on to the rest of the movie. BvS didn't do that with Batman. It put him clearly in the wrong for what he was doing for the audience to see.

The Superman statement.

Superman killing Zod was actually valid.

It would've been killing Zod or letting hundreds of other people die in the collateral damage of their fight.

Still not sure why people give Superman shit over this. It's not as if he enjoyed doing that.

Batman however was a complete madman who very clearly killed without hesitation which is against the character completely.

In the comics Batman doesn't want to kill because he is afraid if he goes down there he won't be able to come back and JL did too did a very bad job of showing that given Batman made jokes and smiled a shit ton.

Batman killing like a freak is much more wrong than what Superman did.

There are more than one way to approach the criticism, some support it, some invalidate it.

• A) It's not traits the characters are known to have, even wholly oppose most often than not, so it comes as a shock when they do it. This is where the critique is valid, because when you say Batman or Superman you immediately have an idea what they are about, one of them being the 'no killing' rule, so you would be fair to say them killing is 'out of character' at least.
• B) What invalidates the critique however starts at the title screen 'Based on characters by DC Comics', key words there is 'based on', meaning you shouldn't expect a 100% accurate take in movies anyways. The other thing that neuters the criticism is the context, which seems to be ignored. Superman killing Zod for instance, it was going to end like that regardless, Zod was not going to stop and Superman had no other way of neutralizing him. With Batman the context is '20 years in Gotham fighting crime' and 'criminals are like weeds', it's nice to think you can throw the worst at Batman and he wont change, but he is human and this human has seen the worst and he's just gotten tired of it, so the gloves are off and he can live with a few casualties if he's sufficiently detached from it.

Regarding misunderstood masterpieces, remember how geniuses proposed "definitive solutions" like Superman covering Zod's eyes, when the movie explicitly show HV burns even Kryptonians, or how he could've just BFRed him as it would somehow resolve the situation?

Good times.

Superman killing, obviously. The complaints are just idiotic.

Of course they killed. It's the term "murder" I have a problem with. If that's the case then anyone who has ever acted in self defense is also murderer. Screw that.

@heatforce: Right because vigilantism is self defense right? Not like there is a huge difference between those two things, right?

@stahlflamme: All heroes are vigilantes unless sanctioned by a government but either way, if a citizen attempts to stop a rape in progress are they a vigilante or hero in your book?

Ah that DCEU butthurt never goes away.

@lone_wolf_and_cub: lol nope mine has firmly been in place since the start :'D

I'm agreeing with you. I find it weird that some audiences get angry over the character killing only when the movie itself focuses on why them killing is bad or something they regret, while having no problem with the heroes killing as long as it's done very casually. Obviously it doesn't apply exactly the same to every superhero (Captain America is a soldier, Thor and Wonder Woman are ancient warriors, it makes sense for them to be more willing to kill if need be).

@the_gaurdian: eh, from what I remember, people HAVE given shit to previous batmen killing. Was a major complaint of Keaton’s Batman from what I remember reading. And there’s people that mock the “I don’t have to save you” bit from Begins along with Bruce blowing up the LoS monastery

@mike_fowler: and to the people who have a problem with Keaton's batman killing, you should remind them that without his batman there would be no Bruce Timm Batman. It was the success of the first Burton film that spawned the animated series.

@heatforce: they’re a hero. But if they stop the rape by shooting the man in the head, unless he has a deadly weapon and you have probable cause he would have used it, it’s murder.

@havenless: the probable cause would be the rape in progress. Shooting a rapist in the head to stop a rape in progress is not murder, but I guess it depends which state you live in.

@heatforce: that, doesn’t really do anything. They didn’t say the film was bad or wasn’t impactful, it was just a criticism they had of those movies

@heatforce: When you bring a deadly weapon because you had planned to murder the rapist, whether he raped or not, and caught him before he was in the act like Batman did in BvS, that’s murder. No crime being committed; but you suspect he might and you walk up and shoot in him the head, how do you justify that in court?

@havenless: who did batman murder in BvS? Every instance where someone died was self defense. Dude people conceal or open carry all the time. Are you not from the US? If not then I understand the confusion.

I had A LOT of complaints about Superman portrayal in MoS. Him killing Zod was not one of them.

Batman killing right and left was a terrible miscalculation from Warner.

@aros001: Oh. I probably could've worded it better but I was agreeing with you too lol

Enough with these threads. They are bait and the topics have been discussed extensively for years in the same threads time and time again, this contributes nothing. Stop making them.