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#1 Posted by Mad_Jim (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

As far i know, yes easily faster.

But physical strength or other superpowers (heat vision, freezing etc.) grew stronger?

Briefly, only speed or speed+strength+ all otherpowers?

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#2 Edited by Marishtar (2052 posts) - - Show Bio

Way better feats in some categories.

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#3 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

Massively improved stats such as speed, durability, and strength. There are two trains of thought here; One, he received an amp from the motherbox. In BvS he was shown essentially on the same level as Wonder Woman in their fight against Doomsday, yet in JL can completely overpower and outsped her. That could be used as evidence for a motherbox amp of some kind. The second is that he unlocked more of his potential power. Jor-El encoded Superman with the Codex when he was a baby, the DNA of a billion Kryptonians. That narrative fact opens up a Pandora's box of Superman still having potentially even more power than we have yet seen. There's reasoning for both, but I kind of think the motherbox gave him amp, if not just boosting his cells and recovery process that was already underway.

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#4 Edited by SanoHibiki (3398 posts) - - Show Bio

Basically, JL simply demonsrated his best speed feat so far imo. I didn't see any real indication of an amp of any kind; for once Superman in his zombie-mode probably just didn't hold back much.

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#5 Posted by Essem (290 posts) - - Show Bio

His biggest boost was his confidence.

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#6 Posted by Captainplanet_2 (51 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre JL Supe gave hope that he may not be a Mary Sue. Post JL superman confirmed to general public he will always be a Mary Sue who take all tension from the movie and make entire JL look like Hawkeye and Blackwidow.

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#7 Posted by Emperorb777 (11132 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman: Superman had just received 2 doses of kryptonite and was hit by a nuke. There is no proof at all that WW was on Superman's lvl in BvS. WW fighting DD means nothing since DD was basically a new born child.

The obvious thing is Superman was always at the level in JL, there was just no reason to display it.

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#8 Edited by MorbusGrav (1192 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorb777 said:

@ipvman: Superman had just received 2 doses of kryptonite and was hit by a nuke. There is no proof at all that WW was on Superman's lvl in BvS. WW fighting DD means nothing since DD was basically a new born child.

The obvious thing is Superman was always at the level in JL, there was just no reason to display it.

Yeah no, that's obviously bullshit and completely relies on headcanon.

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#9 Posted by christianrapper (6168 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman said:

Massively improved stats such as speed, durability, and strength. There are two trains of thought here; One, he received an amp from the motherbox. In BvS he was shown essentially on the same level as Wonder Woman in their fight against Doomsday, yet in JL can completely overpower and outsped her. That could be used as evidence for a motherbox amp of some kind. The second is that he unlocked more of his potential power. Jor-El encoded Superman with the Codex when he was a baby, the DNA of a billion Kryptonians. That narrative fact opens up a Pandora's box of Superman still having potentially even more power than we have yet seen. There's reasoning for both, but I kind of think the motherbox gave him amp, if not just boosting his cells and recovery process that was already underway.

ww was nowhere near as good as superman against doomsday. superman basically beat him and was about to throw him into space. before he got there ww was trying to prevent herself and batman from being murdered by doomsday.

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#10 Posted by Richubs (4229 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman:

There are reasons to think Clark was not at his best against Doomsday.

He had just inhaled Kryptonite and then taken a nuke to the face.

WW would lose to MoS Superman.

And there's also things that happen in JL that make me think that Diana was severely nerfed combat speed wise in JL and even her own movie.

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#11 Posted by KanyeCosby (7067 posts) - - Show Bio

It’s never explained, but he’s clearly more powerful in JL. In the movie we see him casually carry things that were much heavier than anything he lifted before and we see him move and react at speeds he was never able to before. Even in the comics, Superman came back much more powerful after his resurrection.

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#12 Posted by MetalJimmor (6434 posts) - - Show Bio

Combat speed is the only thing that was notably better, but I actually chalk that up to his experience with Barry. Before Barry he never had need to go that fast. He probably didn't even realize he could. But finally confronted by a being just as fast, if not faster, than himself forced him to react and begin processing information faster than he ever has. He was perceiving things he previously never considered actually trying to see. Paying attention to the world in a way he preciously didn't.

That is my theory anyway.

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#13 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26962 posts) - - Show Bio

After JL, he's more wanked.

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#14 Posted by TheSpartanB345T (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

Basically, JL simpley demonsrated his best speed feat so far imo. I didn't see any real indication of an amp of any kind; for once Superman in his zombie-mode probably just didn't hold back much.

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#15 Posted by rem (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre JL Supe gave hope that he may not be a Mary Sue. Post JL superman confirmed to general public he will always be a Mary Sue who will take all tension from the movie and make entire JL look like Hawkeye and Black widow.

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#16 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs: @christianrapper: @emperorb777: Well let's examine the fight gif by gif then.

Superman after being hit by the nuke had just sunbathed and completely regenerated. I don't think there's evidence to assume he was still weakened after that.

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Wonder Woman upon entering the battle straight no sells post nuke DDs heat vision.

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Her and Superman tank the energy emission and are depicted as equals.

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Her and Superman reach Doomsday at the same time, so we can assume they were going roughly the same speed on their blitzes. She also hits Doomsday hard enough to make him adapt again, and seemingly does about as much damage as Superman with their moves.

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Doomsday is actively avoiding Wonder Woman's sword and preferring to strike Superman. Wonder Woman then slashes his achilles does arguably more damage than anything yet including Superman and a nuke and actually makes Doomsday seemingly give a look of pain.

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Doomsday manhandles and throws Superman, and then knees him in the face.

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Wonder Woman bracelet clashes and blitzes Doomsday on her own, tanking punches and heat vision and blitzing him again.

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The same heat vision Diana straight no sold earlier is enough to overpower Superman and give him visible distress.

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Then he of course goes to save Lois, and guess who's fighting post nuke Doomsday tanking punches with a smile.

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And what's really the be all end of this argument, she flat out no sells a punch from a bloodlusted Doomsday attempting to splatter her with the strike, and severs the monsters hand with a beautiful riposte. She inflicts more damage on him than anything including Superman and a nuke did beforehand.

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Not only that, but she successfully lassos and momentarily pins a Doomsday whose adapting even further before Batman hit him with Kryptonite.

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Now how could anyone look at that onscreen evidence and not think Wonder Woman was on par, if not performing better than Superman did against Doomsday. The only reason she even lost her hold on Doomsday was because her anchor gave out, not her strength.

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Before JL there was a legitimate argument for Wonder Woman beating Superman due to her sword and skill. Superman got an amp and put that debate to rest, but that still doesn't mean Diana isn't comparable to Kryptonians of earlier movies. In fact I think it's pretty clear she was equal in stats and in some ways superior like attack potency and skill.

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#17 Edited by Richubs (4229 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman:

You're basing this off of the fact that Superman completely regenerated after the nuke hit.

I don't believe so.

Superman was nearly dead at that point clearly.

It'd take a good amount of Sun Soak for him to get back to where he was.

Other Kryptonians after being in the sun for a decent amount of time in MoS were still not as good as Clark in terms of stats and speed and those were trained mercenaries. Obviously if they were equal to Clark and warriors Thier whole lives Clark would've been stomped by them all. That was not the case.

I don't think Superman received sunlight for a good enough time in BvS to get back to where he was before.

I think that the mother box brought him back to life and got him where he normally was before.

Another thing which I belive is thelat Diana was nerfed in JL. Her speed and movement in BvS is flso different that what she did in JL its amazing how they thought it'd be okay to do it. She was hit by Steppenwolf's long and drawn out strikes which is sad honestly. BvS Diana was moving very differently in fights. Actively trying to blitz and using her speed effectively while in JL she rarely used her speed well in combat.

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#18 Edited by MrTrey (311 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana was clearly an equal to Superman before his resurrection. The argument that he was still affected by the nuke is unlikely, as he had healed the cut on his cheek that wasn't healing for a while after the BvS fight, and was shown to similarly quickly recharge after being drained from the World Engine fight, and would be restored even quicker in space with the vastly higher degree of solar radiation. The other Kryptonians were hamstrung by the fact they hadn't mastered their powers such as their senses and heat vision and flight, they were otherwise physically equal with Superman in speed and strength, able to hurt him or hold him down or dodge his attacks, so it's not really like the comics where Kryptonians gets stronger over time.

The JL reshoots wrecked it's VFX, which is why it looked so cheaply made a lot of the time, which as a consequence likely messed up the great way Snyder portrayed superhuman speed and power in the last 2 films, which would be why Diana looked nerfed.

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#19 Posted by APEX_pretador (20339 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing

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#20 Posted by greenroost (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman said:

Massively improved stats such as speed, durability, and strength. There are two trains of thought here; One, he received an amp from the motherbox. In BvS he was shown essentially on the same level as Wonder Woman in their fight against Doomsday, yet in JL can completely overpower and outsped her. That could be used as evidence for a motherbox amp of some kind. The second is that he unlocked more of his potential power. Jor-El encoded Superman with the Codex when he was a baby, the DNA of a billion Kryptonians. That narrative fact opens up a Pandora's box of Superman still having potentially even more power than we have yet seen. There's reasoning for both, but I kind of think the motherbox gave him amp, if not just boosting his cells and recovery process that was already underway.

this

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#21 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

His top lip.

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#22 Posted by MOWJACK (1297 posts) - - Show Bio

the level of wank

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#23 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (1848 posts) - - Show Bio

CGI lip

Online
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#24 Posted by godzilla44 (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing is different just showed a good speed feat and everyone freaks out. It's all head cannon that he received an amp, it was never stated in the movie or by the directors.

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#25 Posted by Emanresu_20 (2846 posts) - - Show Bio

Massive amp in almost every category.

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#26 Posted by DaSalvadore (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman said:

@richubs: @christianrapper: @emperorb777: Well let's examine the fight gif by gif then.

Superman after being hit by the nuke had just sunbathed and completely regenerated. I don't think there's evidence to assume he was still weakened after that.

No Caption Provided

Wonder Woman upon entering the battle straight no sells post nuke DDs heat vision.

No Caption Provided

Her and Superman tank the energy emission and are depicted as equals.

No Caption Provided

Her and Superman reach Doomsday at the same time, so we can assume they were going roughly the same speed on their blitzes. She also hits Doomsday hard enough to make him adapt again, and seemingly does about as much damage as Superman with their moves.

No Caption Provided

Doomsday is actively avoiding Wonder Woman's sword and preferring to strike Superman. Wonder Woman then slashes his achilles does arguably more damage than anything yet including Superman and a nuke and actually makes Doomsday seemingly give a look of pain.

No Caption Provided

Doomsday manhandles and throws Superman, and then knees him in the face.

No Caption Provided

Wonder Woman bracelet clashes and blitzes Doomsday on her own, tanking punches and heat vision and blitzing him again.

No Caption Provided

The same heat vision Diana straight no sold earlier is enough to overpower Superman and give him visible distress.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Then he of course goes to save Lois, and guess who's fighting post nuke Doomsday tanking punches with a smile.

No Caption Provided

And what's really the be all end of this argument, she flat out no sells a punch from a bloodlusted Doomsday attempting to splatter her with the strike, and severs the monsters hand with a beautiful riposte. She inflicts more damage on him than anything including Superman and a nuke did beforehand.

No Caption Provided

Not only that, but she successfully lassos and momentarily pins a Doomsday whose adapting even further before Batman hit him with Kryptonite.

No Caption Provided

Now how could anyone look at that onscreen evidence and not think Wonder Woman was on par, if not performing better than Superman did against Doomsday. The only reason she even lost her hold on Doomsday was because her anchor gave out, not her strength.

No Caption Provided

Before JL there was a legitimate argument for Wonder Woman beating Superman due to her sword and skill. Superman got an amp and put that debate to rest, but that still doesn't mean Diana isn't comparable to Kryptonians of earlier movies. In fact I think it's pretty clear she was equal in stats and in some ways superior like attack potency and skill.

I think this is a pretty good breakdown of how badly she got downplayed in JL and during the Arest fight outside of her "god mode" bs.

As for Superman, the writing and wank. The speed feat vs Flash could be argued as reactionary and the rest is mostly MoS but shot differently.

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#27 Posted by christianrapper (6168 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs: ww was not nerfed at all. She actually showed better feats than any other movie. She actually out paced machine gun fire. Had she fought that way in any of her other movies they would be over in about half an hour.

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#28 Posted by christianrapper (6168 posts) - - Show Bio

@dasalvadore: don’t forget what happened before when clark had to save her and batman and was about to fly doomsday into orbit and the us government somehow thought it would br a good idea to hit them with a missile. That might be the biggest peace of PIS in any super hero movie but hardly no one complains about the idiotic government. Any way ww is not as powerful as clark. Even she knows that. Doomsday would have killed her if superman had not shown up.

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#29 Posted by Galactic_1000 (5643 posts) - - Show Bio

Ice breath and Speed

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#30 Posted by Richubs (4229 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper:

She was unable to contend with Steppenwolf who I would've considered fast but sadly his blows were so slow, we, the audience members could track them.

And she was tagged by Parwdemons in parts where she shouldn't have been tagged by them and even huffed in pain when she got speared by them.

She was only doing good in some scenes in all other scenes she was nerfed.

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#31 Edited by DaSalvadore (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper: I really need to just stop getting involved in these threads. I'm a stickler for details so I always rewatch specific scenes when getting into a debate and these threads mean I have to go back to MoS and BvS more times than my sanity can stand.

Aside from my immediate response of "the entire movie is PiS!" Superman gets manhandled by Doomsday's first form and gets tossed aside like yesterday's lunch. Doomsday then jumps to a LexCorp tower, gets amped by the machine gun fire which takes out the news copter (in what is both absolutely a stupid amp visual and what gets WW off her plane) and then gets blindsided up, up and away into space to face the nuke.

WW doesn't show up until after the nuke amp and Doomsday has chased Batman back to Gotham.

Which is why the Doomsday fight is so useless when looking at Superman's fight skills. He gets knocked around at base level but is able to kick Dooms around after Dooms has boosted three times (machine, Nuke, WW's bracelets) and this is after he took the nuke and had to be juiced back up by the sun. And then Dooms still gets more done to him by WW since Dooms won the battle of eye-beams just before the spear/death scene.

The entire Doomsday fight is a total mess for Superman.

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#32 Posted by Crimson-Feather (114 posts) - - Show Bio

He was much more powerful than in the other movies.

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#33 Posted by DammeFavour (8339 posts) - - Show Bio

No difference, just better feats.

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#34 Posted by christianrapper (6168 posts) - - Show Bio

@dasalvadore: these discussions are an interesting bit of fan fiction as long as people don’t take this crap too seriously. You are right about the whole movie being pis. Most super hero movies are since most heroes can just end the threat in the first act. As for that doomsday battle....why didn’t superman try flying him back into space? Was he afraid of getting hit with another nuke?

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#35 Posted by DaSalvadore (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper: There's a fine line between PiS and suspension of disbelief. I would argue that Supes not trying to send Doomsday back into space is the latter. We don't really know what Supes' plan was once he got to space. Was it to suffocate Dooms in the vacuum? We know that wouldn't work and Supes could guess it wouldn't work once he kept amping/adapting. Was it to dump him into the sun? That's out of the window considering Domsday is half Kyrptonian. The only thing that would work would be to dump him on another planet and then that's just avoiding the problem of the thing being alive and a danger. Or yeah, it could be from not wanting to be nuked again.

The PiS is not giving Diana the spear since the self-sacrifice isn't even the end of a Supes' redemption/character growth arc.

But my original point was that BvS is a terrible measuring stick for all the characters aside from Wonder Woman.

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#36 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (11223 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#37 Posted by Bag_ass (305 posts) - - Show Bio

His mouth

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#38 Edited by WoahPerk (100 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing. People really think the Motherbox amped him and their key excuse being "but Wonder Woman was performing just as well as him against Doomsday!" ... BOI! Superman was nerfed for cool sequence of Wonder Woman fighting alongside him, and so was Doomsday otherwise he would have statued and killed both Diana and Bats the second the fight began.

They were both always hypersonic and WW is just sonic