What is the Darkseid's true form ?

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Mad_Jim

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He is really multiversal in his true form ?

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Sly_141

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Darkseid's true form is multiversal...

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His true form is more akin to multiversal spirit (the thing pictured above) more than anything and it as only appeared in Final Crisis and the events directly leading up to the event.

After Orion mortally wounded the Dark God he began falling to his demise casting a shadow on the multiverse in the process as shown below

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And as result he ended dragging the multiverse into hole in time as stated below

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And here

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His fall resulted in...

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Ultimately, he damaged the Orrery of Worlds which constitutes the DC multiverse and he had to be taken out by the Miracle Machine which used the tuned vibrations of the multiverse in order to cancels Darkseid out thus wiping him from that plane of existence. It is assumed that he was fractured by this event like his son which explains the current status quo for New Gods in the New 52.

This should answer the question

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emmanuelalake

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phoenixdiamond616

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And I thought the Avatars were pretty dangerous... now I realize there's actually a multiversal Darkseid... Damn!

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nickzambuto

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How does the "true" Darkseid feel about Superman? I know his mainstream avatar hates Supes with a passion, but is the real form above that? Or is his hate for Superman so passionate that it transcends to his level?

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Hypnos0929

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@nickzambuto: honestly I think the real Darkseid cares in a way. I mean his avatars aren't suppose to be completely independent beings but at the same time I don't think Superman is at the top of his list of important things because he knows there are beings much more capable of attacking him like Trigon and High Father and his own Father

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nickzambuto

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@nickzambuto: honestly I think the real Darkseid cares in a way. I mean his avatars aren't suppose to be completely independent beings but at the same time I don't think Superman is at the top of his list of important things because he knows there are beings much more capable of attacking him like Trigon and High Father and his own Father

But threat level isn't everything. Darkseid despises Superman on a personal level, it's not just about being a thorn in his side.

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Blaredevil

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How does the "true" Darkseid feel about Superman? I know his mainstream avatar hates Supes with a passion, but is the real form above that? Or is his hate for Superman so passionate that it transcends to his level?

Darkseids avatars are just extensions of himself and his being, they would still share the same hatred for Earths heroes and those that are the antithesis of what Darkseid stands for.

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Blaredevil

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@sly_141: Oh god, not this Multiversal Darkseid nonsense again. If the man has to die in order for him to have some real effect on the DC Multiverse, which is contextual then he isn't Multiversal. I haven't seen anything from his feats in combat or in a power scenario to suggest he operates on that level of power.

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Sly_141

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@blaredevil: I whole heartedly disagree but an opinion is only just that. The fact that his death cause all of the stuff I listed above should make him Multiversal at least in my opinion. It still takes a lot of power to reach your hand and drag the multiverse with you into oblivion. Though I'd love to hear your explanation of things and what power should be associated with FC Darkseid. Not saying you'll change my mind but I'm still open to conversation. The first thing you should state is your definition of multiversal. For me, anything damaging or affecting the multiverse on a large scale can be considered such. Just like how Superman is considered planetary despite not being shown to be able to bust planets in their entirety.

Man handling the fabric of time and dragging the multiverse into oblivion counts for me.

And seeing how Morrison has stated that Final Crisis is the only time that Darkseid , not any avatars, has manifested on our plane means that this showing of power would logically differ than the rest of his appearances.

(Also calling people out on posts that are half a year old is kinda weird. Luckily my mindset on the matter is more or less the same so but still.)

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Blaredevil

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@sly_141 said:

@blaredevil: I whole heartedly disagree but an opinion is only just that. The fact that his death cause all of the stuff I listed above should make him Multiversal at least in my opinion. It still takes a lot of power to reach your hand and drag the multiverse with you into oblivion. Though I'd love to hear your explanation of things and what power should be associated with FC Darkseid. Not saying you'll change my mind but I'm still open to conversation. The first thing you should state is your definition of multiversal. For me, anything damaging or affecting the multiverse on a large scale can be considered such. Just like how Superman is considered planetary despite not being shown to be able to bust planets in their entirety.

Man handling the fabric of time and dragging the multiverse into oblivion counts for me.

And seeing how Morrison has stated that Final Crisis is the only time that Darkseid , not any avatars, has manifested on our plane means that this showing of power would logically differ than the rest of his appearances.

(Also calling people out on posts that are half a year old is kinda weird. Luckily my mindset on the matter is more or less the same so but still.)

This isn't a matter of opinion, its matter of fact. Darkseids essence dragging down the rest of the DC Universe is basically a domino effect and nothing, not even on his home turf suggests he has power thats Multiversal. Multiversal Darkseid is a Youtube/Google+ myth that honestly has no basis or even intelligent origination other than Final Crisis itself which is generally a messy and convulsed event to begin with.

Also I didn't see your post was half a year old, but the point still stands.

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entropy_aegis

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@blaredevil: This isn't a battle board, he doesn't need feats for anything here. His essence transcends the multiverse. There is only one Darkseid.

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Blaredevil

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@blaredevil: This isn't a battle board, he doesn't need feats for anything here. His essence transcends the multiverse. There is only one Darkseid.

I agree theres only one Darkseid. And by feats he isn't Multiversal.

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entropy_aegis

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If there is one then automatically he's multiversal.

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Blaredevil

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No, somebody who exists out the DC Multiverse isn't Multiversal. Guess the burden of proof is dead since they can't actually find compelling reason to suggest hes Multiversal in combat aside from his dying essence causing a domino effect. Who would've thought right?

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Gotoucanario

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No, somebody who exists out the DC Multiverse isn't Multiversal. Guess the burden of proof is dead since they can't actually find compelling reason to suggest hes Multiversal in combat aside from his dying essence causing a domino effect. Who would've thought right?

How is it a domino effect if the shadow itself is multiversal sized in the first place?

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Darkseid's true form is the same as we regularly see him, as for his Final Crisis "Multiversal" feat, he did that by affecting Prime Earth's vibrations, which as a chain reaction started to affect vibrations across the entirety of multiverse, in essence it was not a multiversal feat, even Superman has feat of saving the OMNIVERSE by using the vibrations, doesn't make either of them that level. As for his real power he was beaten by H/P Doomsday (it was confirmed by author it was real DS), against whom Superman performed better than DS, and then there is DS vs Superman fights, which most of the time show them as equals, though people would try to argue that it was DS' avatar, but honestly, there is no real evidence that in any of those fights it was DS' avatar.

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Sly_141

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@lord_spectrum: Its not just people just saying that they were avatars Morrison said so himself. In fact it was one of the main points of the story. If by Superman saving the omniverse, you see also referring to Final Crisis that feat was done using the Miracle Machine which warps reality not Supermans own power.

Furthermore, the Hunter Prey precedes Final Crisis, so if Morrison retconned all of Darkseids appearances to avatars then that's just what it is.

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Sly_141

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@blaredevil: I'm kinda insulted that you threw me in with the YT crowd most of which don't comics for themselves. Anyways, Final Crisis retconned all of Darkseid previous appearances to avatars and then Multiversity confirms this so since Morrison has written Darkseid this has been the case. The basis for Darksied being Multiversal is in the first point I made although I could update later today.

Seeing how Final Crisis is the event that establishes the New Gods in this manner, to disregard it as messy and convulsed is to disregard 95% of the evidence on the matter. If you find FC confusing I can help explain it too you since I've read it at least 4 seperate times and have a pretty firm grasp on it.

As for the chain of effect theory you have, I do agree that Darkseid usually wouldn't do FC stuff like this all the time but not for the reason you've stated. But that's another story that I can go into later. For right now, Darkseid has been seen crunching time with his fist which can't be written up as a domino effect as Darkseids death only caused a hole in reality. Furthermore, it still takes Multiversal power to drag the entire multiverse into said hole

Lastly, it seems that you think most of use are implying that Darkseid can is Multiversal in a more combat oriented sense which doesn't seem to be the case. This is why I asked you to define your definition of the term.

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jashro44

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How does the "true" Darkseid feel about Superman? I know his mainstream avatar hates Supes with a passion, but is the real form above that? Or is his hate for Superman so passionate that it transcends to his level?

Pretty sure his avatars are just extensions of his true being. So he would feel the same I imagine.

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jashro44

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Does the real darkseid have a form? I thought he was just an abstract being.

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Brainiactic

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Darkseid Is

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Lord_Spectrum

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@sly_141:

Its not just people just saying that they were avatars Morrison said so himself.

Post me evidence that every single DS vs Superman fight was DS avatar, i need Morrison himself saying that DS that fought Supes was the avatar, so post it, and honestly when people make such bold statement post proof backing that up

In fact it was one of the main points of the story.

Final Crisis DS got rekt by Orion, who is Superman-level being and doesn't have avatars, just shows quite the opposite.

If by Superman saving the omniverse, you see also referring to Final Crisis that feat was done using the Miracle Machine which warps reality not Supermans own power.

I was refering to another instance actually.

Furthermore, the Hunter Prey precedes Final Crisis, so if Morrison retconned all of Darkseids appearances to avatars then that's just what it is.

Then prove it, show me scan or article showing that Morrison said that EVERY, note: EVERY, Superman vs DS fight was DS' avatar, so far no evidence was posted showing that any time they fought it was the avatar.

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Sly_141

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Sly_141

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@lord_spectrum: @lord_spectrum: https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111223989/4751772-screenshot+2015-08-15+at+2.17.42+pm.png. Follow that link.

He also confirms this even more in Multiversity.

Also the first link, explains that this is the case for all New Gods so it'd probably to help to think of Orion and the rest of the New Gods in a similar way to FC Darkseid.

Morridon made to where the only time Darkseid has manifested on our plane was Final Crisis. Just like he said in that quote. Not trying to argue with you I just feel that this should be known.

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Lord_Spectrum

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#26  Edited By Lord_Spectrum

@sly_141:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111223989/4751772-screenshot+2015-08-15+at+2.17.42+pm.png. Follow that link.

He also confirms this even more in Multiversity.

It's cool and all, but he says this is the first time we see real Darkaseid on planet Earth, it still doesn't debunk Superman vs DS in other planets like Apokolips, so what i am trying to say is that, this quote may debunk that real DS was never on planet Earth, but still doesn't debunk that Supes vs DS on other planets (like Apokolips) was his avatar, and not only that we have Jurgens saying that real DS fought H/P Doomsday (and DS got rekt), and Supes performed way better than DS against DD, and HP DD vs DS was on planet Apokolips, so Morrison's statement still doesn't debunk it.

Also the first link, explains that this is the case for all New Gods so it'd probably to help to think of Orion and the rest of the New Gods in a similar way to FC Darkseid.

Cool, but still, FC DS didn't do anything impressive, his "Multiversal" feat was just affecting vibrations of Prime Earth, which affected vibrations of other Earths causing chain reactions and collaterall side-effects, and that's it, other than that he has practically no feats to assume he is tougher than regular DS we see on planet Earth (excluding Apokolips and other planets since Morrison's statement doesn't debunk those incidents).

Morridon made to where the only time Darkseid has manifested on our plane was Final Crisis.

Not our plane, our planet, there is a key difference in words and their meanings, rememmber that, as for that, as i already explained above it still doesn't debunk DS vs Supes or H/P DD on planet Apokolips and other planets, it only debunks Darkseid's showings on planet Earth as avatar and that's it, which means he is still Supeman-level being powerwise, and that was always the case.

Just like he said in that quote. Not trying to argue with you I just feel that this should be known.

No problem with that.

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adamTRMM

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Is it me or New Gods mythology are super inconsistent?

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Chimeroid

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Darkseid's true form is the same as we regularly see him, as for his Final Crisis "Multiversal" feat, he did that by affecting Prime Earth's vibrations, which as a chain reaction started to affect vibrations across the entirety of multiverse, in essence it was not a multiversal feat, even Superman has feat of saving the OMNIVERSE by using the vibrations, doesn't make either of them that level. As for his real power he was beaten by H/P Doomsday (it was confirmed by author it was real DS), against whom Superman performed better than DS, and then there is DS vs Superman fights, which most of the time show them as equals, though people would try to argue that it was DS' avatar, but honestly, there is no real evidence that in any of those fights it was DS' avatar.

Actually, we usually see Uxas. Darkseid, as an entity is basically DC's Phoenix Force. Uxas is just one of the hosts.

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Lord_Spectrum

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@chimeroid:

Actually, we usually see Uxas. Darkseid,

They are the same being in essence, plus so far as i read, there was no distinction between them, except Pre-omega force absorbtion and Post-omega force absorbtion.

But in short, Uxas became Darkseid when he absorbed the Omega Force in Pre-52.

In New 52/Rebirth, Uxas became Darkseid, when he killed and absorbed magical powers of the old gods.

as an entity is basically DC's Phoenix Force.

I wouldn't compare any version of DS to Phoenix Force, powerwise they are on way different leagues, but if you mean concept wise, i.e. like host possession, then maybe....i guess..... but i need specific evidence pointing that out.

Uxas is just one of the hosts.

Any proof? Scans, articles, statements? Because i doubt there are any. The only thing that can be argued is that Uxas is the host of Omega Force, but only in Pre-52, since in New 52 the "Omega" power is just combined magical power of old gods, which DS has stolen.

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Chimeroid

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@lord_spectrum: Actually, no for both.

Uxas didn't become Darkseid when he absorbed the Omega Force he took the name of Darkseid when he did it. Darkseid was the name denizens of the Fourth World were afraid of looong before Uxas was ever born.

This is proven by the fact that Uxas has been killed in the Pre FP continuity and Darkseid simply seized Dan Turpin instead. Just like when, in the Post FP continuity, Darkseid Seized Lex Luthor after Uxas was killed.

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Lord_Spectrum

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@chimeroid:

Actually, no for both.

Okay, let's see your point of view....honestly this one really interests me. ^_^

Uxas didn't become Darkseid when he absorbed the Omega Force he took the name of Darkseid when he did it.

That's what i meant by it.

Darkseid was the name denizens of the Fourth World were afraid of looong before Uxas was ever born.

Scans of that?

And honestly it could be just another prophecy/time-travel kind of shenanigans. But anyways back to the point, just because the name was feared in past, it would still not prove that DS and Uxas are different beings, there are many examples of similar things, but still those beings were still the same, i see no reason for DS/Uxas it being different, unless there is clear evidence that they are different beings, and that's it.

This is proven by the fact that Uxas has been killed in the Pre FP continuity and Darkseid simply seized Dan Turpin instead.

Your point of view is based upon that Uxas and DS are different beings, but still i see no evidence proving it, as for your example it can be easily explained, that when Uxas/DS died, only his body died, but his soul was still alive, and he just soul possessed a human being - nothing complicated, there, nor there is any need of making things complicated, when they are not, so what i am expecting from you, is that you post evidence supporting your view on DS and Uxas being different beings, because so far, there is no evidence shown on that specific part.

Just like when, in the Post FP continuity, Darkseid Seized Lex Luthor after Uxas was killed.

That's just soul possession, this doesn't prove that Darkseid and Uxas are different beings, nor does it give any indication of it.

As i said above, i would be glad if you posted evidence backing up this certain point, but honestly i doubt there is any evidence pointing it out.

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Chimeroid

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@lord_spectrum: Further proof lies in the fact that the Presence's rules state that there always has to be someone taking darkseid's place or everything is going to shit. As evidenced by the Final Crisis. Also, in the fact that Darkseid is a multiversal being. And i don't mean as in "can bust multiverse" no, i mean as Darkseid can control and create avatars in every single universe. Evidenced by him creating an avatar in Earth 2 while Uxas was stuck in the source wall.

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Lord_Spectrum

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@chimeroid:

Further proof lies in the fact that the Presence's rules state that there always has to be someone taking darkseid's place or everything is going to shit.

Obviously, he is the concept of evil of 4th World, he is fundamental part of the universe, but then again it still doesn't prove about DS and Uxas being different beings, nor does it talk about his power, just for example, in Jim Starling's works, he made sort of tier list, when he listed Odin/Zeus equal to Galan, and Thanos being above them but below Eternity/Infinity, what it talks is about Thanos' importance to universe, same thing with Darkseid, he is very important to the universe, but sadly, he is less important than Superman.

Also IIRC it was not the Presence, it was the Source, they are 2 completely different beings.

As evidenced by the Final Crisis.

Don't rememmber FC stating any of that. And during FC everything went nuts, because vibrations of Darkseid caused disturbance in Prime Earth's vibrations, which as a chain reaction affected vibrations of other Earths, who occupy the same space but on different vibrations wavelength, which caused decay of the Multiverse, other than that, nothing hinting about everything dieing if DS died.

Also, in the fact that Darkseid is a multiversal being.

The term multiversal is incorrect in this case. The term that properly describes this case, is that he is a SINGULAR being, that's the correct word.

And i don't mean as in "can bust multiverse" no, i mean as Darkseid can control and create avatars in every single universe.

That is not news honestly, except New 52/Rebirth doesn't go by those rules, in New 52/Rebirth, there are no avatars, just one Darkseid who exists outside of Multiverse, like other New Gods and Old Gods like Zeus, but this Darkseid is different than Pre-52 DS, he has completely different origin story and his power source is different, i mean his omega powers are frea**** magical in New 52/Rebirth.

Evidenced by him creating an avatar in Earth 2 while Uxas was stuck in the source wall.

I rememmber that instance, but again still doesn't prove that Uxas and Darkseid are 2 different beings.

So honestly, we are just stuck in the wall in this case, i mean it's nice to argue with you and all, but with no proper evidence pointing out that Uxas and Darkseid are different being, there is not really that much place for any argumentation, so i would recommend to post some sort of evidence at least pointing that out, and that's just it, some scans or articles with interviews with writers, or even tweets from writer, anything that can help us in this case.

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BabyDarkseid

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yes his true form > both DC and marvel at the sametime

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Sly_141

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@chimeroid: @lord_spectrum: He says everything we have seen before are projections and that this is the first time we are seeing them full power.

Also Chimeroid is basically saying what I've been saying this whole time. The only thing I'd differ in is that I believe that New 52 Darkseid is a fragment of true Darkseid because of the New Gods scan in Multiversity. In said something about there being multiple emanations of the New Gods throughout the Multiverse which is something that I'd like to be expanded upon by DC's writers.

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Chimeroid

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@lord_spectrum: I see where our issue lies. You believe that Uxas has the capability to possess others after his death. I do not since we have no evidence of that. We have seen Uxas go through a change when he took in the Omega and that he took the name of Darkseid. Obviously another god that every other New God is so afraid of that nobody dared use his name.

Anyway. In the end, i do not think Uxas has the capability of taking other bodies after his death. My interpretation of the events after his death is that Darkseid (the evil god New Gods fear) is the one taking control of Dan Turpin/Lex Luthor not Uxas.

@sly_141 said:

@chimeroid: @lord_spectrum:

Also Chimeroid is basically saying what I've been saying this whole time. The only thing I'd differ in is that I believe that New 52 Darkseid is a fragment of true Darkseid because of the New Gods scan in Multiversity. In said something about there being multiple emanations of the New Gods throughout the Multiverse which is something that I'd like to be expanded upon by DC's writers.

In New 52 it doesn't seem to me that New Gods are as important as they should be. I think, in general, that Post Flashpoint DC has been scared to meddle with Mythology and explain how it all works.

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Sly_141

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#37  Edited By Sly_141

@chimeroid: I think they are starting comeback in major way, but still they should have been more involved up until now.

Also, I think there's an older God that went by the name of Darkseid and that may help explain the difference between Uxas and Darkseid though I don't remember when I read this.

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Galactic_1000

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#38  Edited By Galactic_1000

Is True Darkseid 4D being?

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GodsVileandDarkwing

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Can someone please tell me, how did True Self Darkseid lose in a fight? I didn’t read the comic book where he was defeated.

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Ryoxsus

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The more and more I read up on DS the more inconsistent I feel, almost like the different writers writing him are creating completely different characters with each story. I feel like he was supposed to be similar to thanks, but instead of giving him power ups and a good story, they create a different being, or excuse beatdowns with Avatars.

Are there any consistent or concrete evidence that says EXACTLY what DS is that we can go by?

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Emperorb777

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#41  Edited By Emperorb777

@ryoxsus: Darkseid pre dates Thanos and they aren't similar.

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Strike3

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#42  Edited By Strike3

@ryoxsus said:

The more and more I read up on DS the more inconsistent I feel, almost like the different writers writing him are creating completely different characters with each story. I feel like he was supposed to be similar to thanks, but instead of giving him power ups and a good story, they create a different being, or excuse beatdowns with Avatars.

Are there any consistent or concrete evidence that says EXACTLY what DS is that we can go by?

Yeah. Who wrote that story and how many writers have actually gone by that? If only one, it's probably been retconned anyway.

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Mutant1230

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Thanos

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Galactic_1000

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Cough Cough

https://www.quora.com/How-powerful-is-Darkseids-true-form/answer/Gen-Lamont?ch=10&share=36cf8232&srid=5WyuT

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mansnothot812

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So is darkseids true form canon to current DC rebirth or has it been taken out?

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hihowareyou_1

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@godsvileanddarkwing: The catastrophic War of the True Form New Gods left the Darkseid and his son Orion as the last two standing. The two fought and the fight ended with Orion being killed by his father, but before that, Orion left him in a mortally wounded. dying state as he collapsed onto everything (The Multiverse).