what is cinder's plan? rwby discussion (vol. 4 spoilers)

as most rwby fans should know, Cinder is no longer the main villain. now, this is the third time they have switched the villain, Considering roman was the original villain for vol. 1 and cinder for the 2nd and 3rd volume, but you can tell it's been planned out for this to happen. But what exactly is cinder expecting to gain under Salem.

In volume 4, You could see how cinder is badly injured and lost an eye, along with having difficulty speaking. due to this, she has trouble using her powers to their full potential. you also see she is rather disturbed by the other members of salem's court. However, you would think that she'd be fine with the other cold-blooded members. Unless she isn't cold-blooded herself. When she saw tyrian beatign that grimm, she looked rather petrified

You can tell that she doesn't want to be evil or cold-blooded, and maybe power wasn't her plan in the first place.

so here's my thought: what if she's planning on stopping Salem from the inside?

when I look at cinder and salem, I think of satsuki and ragyo from kill la kill

Like cinder, Satsuki worked under the power and rule of Ragyo. She listens to everything ragyo commands her to be and people see satsuki as a cruel and cold hearted b*tch.

however, in the middle of the series, you learn that she was planning to revolt and kill ragyo. she only needed her power to beat her, since satsuki's power alone wasn't enough

Now, as many know, Cinder's character is based off of cinderella, considering her usage of glass and her name being cinder. along with the fact that the ball took place in the fall, hence her last name. What if Salem was a combination of her stepmother and her fairy god mother. Because she gives her opportunity like the fairy god mother, but she's harsh, cold, and unforgiving like the stepmother. It would make a lot of sense

now, I'm not saying something like this can redeem her. But if this is happening, I doubt she will be aiming for redemption. I think she is doing this with the mindset that there is no future for herself, and expecting her own death at the end.

but there's one question left, and that is ruby. Obviously, she loathes ruby, but, I would to if she f**ked up my face. But will her hatred for ruby overcome her main desire to defeat salem?

of course, this is all my theory and I could be dead wrong, I know that, but wouldn't that make an interesting twist?

tell me what you think.

callouts:

@sladerulez:

That's actually not a bad theory, it'd be really cool if that's turns out to be the case.

@darthsenju: I know, right?

This is very interesting and a good theory.

@helloman: thank you

oh yeah, @captain_inverse, I keep forgetting to mention you.

To be honest, I don't want to read whatever you wrote lol. I don't ever like speculating beforehand because of the possibility that it could be right, which would make the eventual revelation in the show/movie less impactful for me.

@sladerulez: interesting piece, thanks for remembering me btw ;)

personally i always thought Cinder was some kind of human/grimm hybrid. I never really understood how she was able to work with/communicate with Grimm. (bug grimm that stole ambers power/ flying spawner grimm) but her and salem have both communicated with them. so a realtionship/connection between the two, in that aspect, makes sense.

never seen kill la kill, so i don't quite understand the reference. But I did pick up on Cinder's reaction to a few things while her and her subordinates (Mercury/Emerald) were at Salem's stronghold. I feel like Cinder didn't really understand the full scope & intentions of what Salem had planned and was only originally on board to become stronger. I think something could happen to mercury/emerald that will be the tipping point for Cinder. (either they want out, and get caught or their deemed expendable)

Salem said not only does she intend to keep Cinder close by her at all times but that she will play a key role in the overall plan.

@indomitableregal: heh, yeah, I get what you mean.

@captain_inverse: It's pretty simple to wrap your head around the kill la kill reference

ragyo was satsuki's mother, but was crazed and sadistic, obsessed with the destruction of humanity for the sake of life fibers. So to defeat her, her daughter Satsuki let her mother believe that she was on her side, only to get close enough to backstab her.

I was saying that cinder could be trying to do the same thing to Salem

i think she's suffering from a form of stockholm and she's just doing whatever salem wants, who cinder admires as her master.

@phantomrant: isn't that how emerald behaves?

@sladerulez: I understood the concept just not who the kill la kill people were.

I could see that happening, but I don't think Cinder had this (her betrayal) all planned from start. I think she is just beginning to see just how evil Salem is and that will be what makes her eventually into a turncoat.

but in the end, I really hope Juane is the one that kills Cinder, perfect revenge. I am expecting something great coming from him

not to derail your thread....but what do you think will become of whats left of JNPR once team RWBY gets back together; their missing their allstar. (I kinda figured juane would stick with rwby for a bit & nora/ren would be off somewhere)

@captain_inverse: meh, a part of me wants to try to stop salem, and die in the process, then jaune walks in at the last minute.

Bump

yeah the salem-cinder relationship is similar to the cinder-emerald relationship.

@phantomrant: well, then i doubt they will repeat it.

Cinder is very different from emerald. She is dominant and controlling with a clever mind. Every thing she does ends in her benefit. For her to be a loyal lapdog to anyone is very out of character for her. She's cinder for crying out loud

Unless of course she was dominated by an even more clever mind at an early age and has been manipulated to think otherwise. She may be the strong and domineering when she's given independance, but everything she does is to Salem's benefit and before her master, she is a dog. If you look at how Salem and Cinder interact, it's clear that the latter is submissive to the former's will unlike with ragyo and satsuki.

@phantomrant: but being controlled for a long time is the perfect reason for revolting. Cinder seems to have had a worse life than most, and salem seems to be the main issue. You say she's submissive, but she takes her time and stalls whenever she's with her. Cinder's only spoke to her once. Every other time, it came from someone else. The thing is she doesn't act like a lap dog, nor does she waver. She 's only like this due to her grave injuries. It has taken such a toll, that her belief in herself wavers. And she doubts her plans will be as smooth as they were.

Another thing, salem was very happy that cinder became the new maiden, but to be honest, it seemed like she wasn't expecting her to be victorious. Salem wouldn't let someone like cinder wander around doing something this big without her knowing. Meaning that the whole thing could have been all cinder's idea.

Another thing is emerald listens to her every whim, cinder doesn't. She hesitates and does it without actually wanting to. She isn't here to make her proud. Cinder is only there for salem's power. They say this herself.

Now this could mean two things for cinder.

1. She helps rwby overpower her and beat her, possibly sacrificing herself.

2. She attempts to overpower her and gains salem's power, being the main antagonist again.

And satsuki was submissive to ragyo. Ragyo was doing bad things to satsuki and she didn't even try to fight back. That's the definition of submission.

Cinder was incredibly devious a malicious pre volume 4. She claimed to want power, and that she enjoyed the empty, burning, nawing, hungry feeling that half the power gave her. If anything is causing a change of heart, I imagine it's the fact that either Amber or Pyrrha are now merged into Cinder's psyche as Ozpin is in Oscar's. When Salem berates Cinder after she killed the Beringel, you can see Cinder looking off to the right with an annoyed look, before turning to Salem and sadly confirming her place at Salem's side. There's two ways to look at this. Either Cinder's getting fed up with Salem's crap, or Amber/Pyrrha are in Cinder's head, and are constantly talking to her and trying to take back her body. The angry distant look Cinder had when Salem started talking was her telling Amber/Pyrrha to shut up and get out of her head so she could do what she wanted.

@jeepeh: damn... nice analysis.

I read too much. lol

@jeepeh: what do you mean?

Cinder wants to get her butt kicked by Ruby again.

Forums, discussions, ect.

@ceratisa

@red_ruby_petal

It's an interesting theory and I think I could enjoy it more than she's just bad cause she wants power angle they seem to have. But I don't think they are setting it up that way. I guess in my view she's been too convincingly malevolent.

@sladerulez: I am under the impression that she is half grimm so salem might have a way of curing her from that and stealing the maiden's powers can make her more human. I mean grimm dont have semblances nor aura and maidens are probably the most aura filled ones with powerful semblances. No one get affected by silver eyes other than cinder. It froze the grimm that got exposed to that light. Other than that silver eyes has shown no destructive power at all and how else do you think they were able to kill summer rose. Ruby's kind is capable of wiping out grimm but unable to fight the opposing ones like Tyrian and Adam as effectively.

@red_ruby_petal: half Grimm?

I can go with Salem connecting Cinder's soul or Aura to that of the Grimm to keep her connected, but I don't think that would make her part Grimm. They were created by the RWBYverse's gods and aren't naturally connected to humans or Faunus in any way.

And she would have some Grimmlike features.

Besides, I don't think the Silver eyes exclusively damage Grimm either. I'll be glad to debate about it.

@sladerulez: It would have been something unstoppable by others if it werent able to deal with it. Especially since they cant stop the entire military just yet since there are always people to oppose them. She would be half grimm in someway because we have no way to prove she isnt either. You cant read the biology of a grimm.

@sladerulez: Anyway I dont want super overpowered characters in the rwbyverse cuz fights wont mean anything and stats may outweight skill.

@red_ruby_petal: I agree with the silver eyes thing. They seem to only effect Grimm and Maidens, for some reason. They even say that, had Cinder not been a maiden, killing Ruby would have been effortless, and that they've slaughtered those with silver eyes before. This may change in time as Ruby learns to use her powers, but for now it's only an anti-grimm weapon, which probably makes her the most likely to defeat Salem herself.

@jeepeh: oh i forgot about that. It affects maidens too. That kinda changes the reason I think cinder is half grimm though I still think she is one.

Because she could talk to the Dragon and used the grim glove?

@jeepeh: Yeah that.

I believe you'll be proven right shortly, as Salem was clearly working on some shady stuff with Cinder in their meeting room. And I find it odd that we haven't seen Cinder's left arm after her injury, and it's been completely concealed underneath that sleeve even in the concept art. I expect that she has a new grim hand, and that something similar will happen to Tyrian to restore his stinger.