What has MCU John Walker done wrong so far?

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The_Hajduk

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Genuine question. I don't think he's done a damn thing wrong.

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mexcomics2078

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Nothing. People just hates him because he’s not Steve Rogers lol.

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KryptonianKing88

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He tried to kill Falcon a couple times during their fight

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deactivated-6349385499256

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He retaliates and he's willing to kill to be Captain America.

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death4bunnies

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#5 death4bunnies  Moderator

He killed a downed opponent that was screaming for his life.

He has no warriors code.. Cowboys dont shoot people in the back, and Steve wouldn’t of ended a downed opponent like that.

It was also a tactical error, could of got information from that dude... also I think Walker Cap didn’t have the official sokovia accord type clearance iirc..they said somthing about killing a foreign national but I’m unsure exactly what legalities were involved.

Either way in my eyes he let his emotions make battle decisions, and that cost him his title, his sheild, a dude’s life, and the relevant information they could of got from dude.. now the Flagsmashers are armed and teamed up with Batroc more determined then ever.

I understand his motivations, and that makes him compelling, his friend died and when he was talking about “you made me” that really struck me.. however we expect more out of captain America.

Just my opinion.

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The_Hajduk

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#6  Edited By The_Hajduk

@kryptonianking88 said:

He tried to kill Falcon a couple times during their fight

Falcon and Winter Soldier attacked him and he begged them not to do this. Everything after that is literally self defense.

@hydratedfubuki6 said:

He retaliates and he's willing to kill to be Captain America.

Steve Rogers killed many people in the line of duty.

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JaylinFreeman

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What d4B said.

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J_Normal

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#8  Edited By J_Normal

@the_hajduk: There is a difference between killing someone in the line if duty and committing a war crime killing a surrendering opponent.

Its also a matter of him being a somdier before a good person and being unwilling so resolve things peacefully.

Even more so he was going to kill Sam.

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deactivated-60f8a948a0372

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He lets his anger get the best of him.

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Tunasubdrew

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He killed that guy with witnesses.

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SPsamurai

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Nothing

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deactivated-60822f28c0232

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He killed the Flag Smasher.

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Joker567892

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The only big mistake was him killing the flagsmasher in public and also going into the warehouse and not listening to Lamarr.

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rajjarsalt

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#14  Edited By rajjarsalt

He put on the shield. Nuff said.

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Joker567892

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@rajjarsalt: Shield would have gone to someone else most likely, possibly a worse candidate than John.

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MarvelandDCfan24

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Walker really isn't anything more than a pompous ass who thinks he can do it all. He reacted in a very human way. Imagine seeing your best friend murdered... said friend died to save you. He was killed by a terrorist organization who is known through the world for horrible acts and murder. So he gave into his rage and did what he did... the problem is he isn't cap and never will be.

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Deep_Silver

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#17  Edited By Deep_Silver

He brutally murdered someone who didn't deserve it and had his hands up surrendering.

He lied to Lamar's family about the person he murdered to try to justify it.

He tried to kill Sam who was not doing anything wrong.

He has an extreme ego and anger problems that get in the way of being Captain America.

He tries to solve every problem with his fists and lacks communication skills and compassion for people who aren't his allies, which makes problems bigger and gets people hurt.

For the record I don't think he's evil and he's a well written character. But he has done a lot wrong.

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Joker567892

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kgb725

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@kryptonianking88 said:

He tried to kill Falcon a couple times during their fight

Falcon and Winter Soldier attacked him and he begged them not to do this. Everything after that is literally self defense.

@hydratedfubuki6 said:

He retaliates and he's willing to kill to be Captain America.

Steve Rogers killed many people in the line of duty.

Rogers was a soldier and would never kill someone who surrendered. Walker is a guy with an inferiority complex who tried to kill Bucky and Sam who didn't even want to fight him much less kill him. Walker is also the reason Flagsmasher got away by trying to strong arm the situation when it wasn't necessary

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rajjarsalt

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#20  Edited By rajjarsalt

@joker567892 said:

@rajjarsalt: Shield would have gone to someone else most likely, possibly a worse candidate than John.

Shield doesn't belong to him, them, etc

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Joker567892

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@rajjarsalt: Well, it doesn't but they still would have given it to someone else if Walker didn't take it, that plus I don't think Walker had that info until Madame Hydra showed up.

"When I'm gone, they'll just find another monster, why? Because they have to justify their wages"

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Deep_Silver

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@deep_silver: The guy deserved it.

That's your opinion. I strongly disagree. He never killed anyone, and he was surrendering. He didn't commit any crimes that deserved death imo, and even if he had, that wasn't Walker's place to decide in that moment.

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Joker567892

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@deep_silver:

1st He was gonna hold Walker in place to get stabbed, idk what the charge would be, but he was going to help Karli murder Walker.

2nd He was half responsible for the death of Lamarr, He held Walker in place, if he didn't Lamarr wouldn't be dead.

3rd He threw a concrete trashcan at Walker while running

4th He was still with Karli after she killed and injured innocents.

He deserved the death, just not in public.

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Deep_Silver

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#24  Edited By Deep_Silver

@joker567892:

1st He was gonna hold Walker in place to get stabbed, idk what the charge would be, but he was going to help Karli murder Walker.

This is the only thing he actually did that could be considered bad, and even this didn't deserve death. I won't get into though because this is clearly just a fundamental difference of opinion.

2nd He was half responsible for the death of Lamarr, He held Walker in place, if he didn't Lamarr wouldn't be dead.

This doesn't even make sense. Karli hit Lamarr by herself, this guy had nothing to do with that.

3rd He threw a concrete trashcan at Walker while running

Of course, because he knew Walker was trying to murder him and tried a distraction to escape. It was self defense.

4th He was still with Karli after she killed and injured innocents.

It's not so cut and dry. The Avengers have killed a lot of people in the name of making the world a better place. The Flagsmashers believe that is what they are doing, too. Again, this is a moral gray area. And he didn't even actually do it. He doesn't deserve to be murdered in the street without a trial for this.

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Joker567892

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@deep_silver: So killing innocents is ok in your book?

He was half responsible because again, the reason why Battlestar had to interfere in the way he did was due to the fact Nico was holding him in place and getting ready to stab him, if Nico let's say didn't try holding Walker, Lamarr wouldn't have needed to intervene.

That is all.

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Deep_Silver

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#26  Edited By Deep_Silver

@joker567892: Obviously that's not what I'm saying, but that is starting a whole different conversation. I'm not saying the Flag Smashers were necessarily right, but this particular guy definitely did not kill or try to kill anyone innocent. He deserved a trial at least. Walker raged out and butchered a man with no blood on his hands who was surrendering.

I just totally disagree with your second point. Lamarr chose to run over there, and Karli chose to hit him. It had nothing nothing do with this guy.

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Darkvanderling

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How the hell was Nico innocent? Dude was part of a terrorist group and responsible for many killings indirectly. Surrender or not, he deserved to be killed. Dude also held Walker which prevented him to save Lamar.

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Joker567892

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^

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JediSympathiz3r

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Killed that flagsmasher(perfectly understandable but still)

Attempted to kill Bucky and Falcon(though he wasn’t in the best mental state at the time)

interupted Sam’s attempt at peace

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TobeyMaguire84

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#30  Edited By TobeyMaguire84

He is a white male

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Bayman007

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Not worthy.

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buildhare

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Done did the war crimes

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Darkthunder

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Nothing. People just hate him because he’s not Steve Rogers lol.

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deltahuman

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#34  Edited By deltahuman

Nothing. Killing Nico after he sort of surrendered is wrong but that's more due to the serum aggravating all the rage and trauma he carried. Besides, Flag smashers are criminals anyway

He extended the hand of friendship multiple times but Sam and Bucky were assholes to him right from the start. Initially he was just trying to do what he believed in. He was a patriot. A soldier in the pinnacle of human performance, wanting to be Captain America doesn't necessarily make him a bad guy. He even talked about the morally grey stuff that being in the army made him do. Sam and Buck could've befriended him and probably saved him from succumbing to his inner demons. They didn't even talk to him properly and treated him like a subhuman just because he carried that shield. He'd have probably not used the serum if they would've been a little more supportive. I like Walker. Both the character and the actor.

Also he's a white male so

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KillianDuclark

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Everyone keeps claiming that Walker committed a war crime because he killed a defenseless enemy.

By that metric Thor committed a war crime win he killed Thanos on the garden

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@joker567892:

4th He was still with Karli after she killed and injured innocents.

It's not so cut and dry. The Avengers have killed a lot of people in the name of making the world a better place. The Flagsmashers believe that is what they are doing, too. Again, this is a moral gray area. And he didn't even actually do it. He doesn't deserve to be murdered in the street without a trial for this.

Nazis believed they were morally right, this does not make how we handle what they did a grey area.

It is incredibly cut and dry. Guilt by association. He is part of a violent, murderous terrorist organization and was involved in Lamar being beat to death. Like all scumbags, he deserved a trial, but let's not pretend that he wasn't undeserving of an execution.

The Avengers don't intentionally, willingly slaughter innocent people. Killing does not = murder. Do not conflate the two.

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Naruto_buster

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#38  Edited By Naruto_buster

He spit on Captain American’s legacy. Captain America will be remembered as a murder in the eyes of another country. He spill blood in the SHIELD that represented Steve Rogers. Besides killing a few people, not much. And he also doesn’t think killing isn’t wrong. Kill a man off the field and you are a murderer. Kill a man on it and you are a big hero. 😤

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christianrapper

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Genuine question. I don't think he's done a damn thing wrong.

You mean besides murdering a defenseless guy?

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christianrapper

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Everyone keeps claiming that Walker committed a war crime because he killed a defenseless enemy.

By that metric Thor committed a war crime win he killed Thanos on the garden

That’s not the same thing at all. let’s not go overboard.

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KillianDuclark

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#41  Edited By KillianDuclark

@christianrapper: how is it the not same?

Thanos was not an immediate threat to anyone.

Thor was motivated by bloodlust.

Both Thanos and Dovich had committed morally bank rupt acts.

So what's the difference

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wavyhero3467

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Nothing. People just hate walker for some weird reason tho.

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StormKing1221

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Lots of people here trying to justify Walker playing judge, jury, and executioner. When you apprehend a criminal, you can't decide to murder them in cold blood because you're angry

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Deep_Silver

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#44  Edited By Deep_Silver

@lord_tenebrous said:
@deep_silver said:

@joker567892:

4th He was still with Karli after she killed and injured innocents.

It's not so cut and dry. The Avengers have killed a lot of people in the name of making the world a better place. The Flagsmashers believe that is what they are doing, too. Again, this is a moral gray area. And he didn't even actually do it. He doesn't deserve to be murdered in the street without a trial for this.

Nazis believed they were morally right, this does not make how we handle what they did a grey area.

It is incredibly cut and dry. Guilt by association. He is part of a violent, murderous terrorist organization and was involved in Lamar being beat to death. Like all scumbags, he deserved a trial, but let's not pretend that he wasn't undeserving of an execution.

The Avengers don't intentionally, willingly slaughter innocent people. Killing does not = murder. Do not conflate the two.

I fundamentally disagree with you. This IS a gray area.

Think about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people murdered. But many argue that it was necessary to change things for the greater good.

Personally I do not think we should be executing people for "guilt by association," I think that is a really messed up concept. And he was NOT involved in Lamar being beat to death, because he didn't do it or help do it. Nico was a good person. He deserved maybe some jail time, not to be bludgeoned to death in the street while he surrendered. What he got was horrible.

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christianrapper

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#45  Edited By christianrapper

@killianduclark said:

@christianrapper: how is it the not same?

Thanos was not an immediate threat to anyone.

Thor was motivated by bloodlust.

Both Thanos and Dovich had committed morally bank rupt acts.

So what's the difference

Thanos killed half of all life in the freaking universe. He wasn’t an immediate threat but he wasn’t going to sit idly by and let the avengers go about their plan to undo his life’s goal that he spent probably centuries trying to accomplish. You KNOW that’s not the same thing. Stop doubting down on a bad analogy. You aren’t the first to make one. Instead of arguing just to be arguing just admit it and move on.

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the_stegman

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#46 the_stegman  Moderator

He brutally murdered someone who didn't deserve it and had his hands up surrendering.

He lied to Lamar's family about the person he murdered to try to justify it.

He tried to kill Sam who was not doing anything wrong.

He has an extreme ego and anger problems that get in the way of being Captain America.

He tries to solve every problem with his fists and lacks communication skills and compassion for people who aren't his allies, which makes problems bigger and gets people hurt.

For the record I don't think he's evil and he's a well written character. But he has done a lot wrong.

this

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emperorthanos-

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#47 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@killianduclark said:

@christianrapper: how is it the not same?

Thanos was not an immediate threat to anyone.

Thor was motivated by bloodlust.

Both Thanos and Dovich had committed morally bank rupt acts.

So what's the difference

Thanos killed half of all life in the freaking universe. He wasn’t an immediate threat but he wasn’t going to sit idly by and let the avengers go about their plan to undo his life’s goal that he spent probably centuries trying to accomplish. You KNOW that’s not the same thing. Stop doubting down on a bad analogy. You aren’t the first to make one. Instead of arguing just to be arguing just admit it and move on.

It is not the same thing. Because Thanos was done. He had accomplished his goal, was severely injured and was not a threat at all. The Flag Smasher had just moments ago held Walker back while Karli killed Lemar. And was far from done, he still had to accomplish his goal and which would have resulted in even more death.s

Saying Thanos isn't going to sit Idly by as a justification makes no sense here. You think the Flag Smasher was going to quit? He and the others were going to continue their terrorism till they got what they want.

Thanos was no longer a future threat. Flag Smasher very much was.

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emperorthanos-

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#48 emperorthanos-  Moderator

John Walker wrongdoings so far are just rushing in when Sam was talking to Karli. Ruining any chance of talking her out of it.(Which may not have ever worked anyway).

Killing the flagsmasher who had surrendered might have been taking things to far, but Flagsmasher moments before aided in the death of Lemar, and even through that concrete block at him. The Avengers kill people all the time, Falcon in the very first episode.

The fight with Sam and Bucky was self defense. They attacked him. He wanted to work with them to stop the actual threat but they were both so focused on the shield that they let the real killers get away to fight Walker instead. Walker trying to kill someone who attacked him and who he asked not fight him doesn't make him the bad guy.

Karli actually killed innocents but Sam seems perfectly fine with her.

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incursion2

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Well the only wrong thing he did was kill a surrendered enemy, even though yes he was a terrorist so I'm not extremely sympathetic lol. Other than that he's a tad to forward tends to rush into things. The weight of being Cap was getting to him.

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SupremeGeneration

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Honestly, stuff like this doesn’t phase me. I can’t sympathize or antagonize any of these people. It’s fiction, I literally don’t care. Karli killed some people? Cool! Walker killed a guy? Smh!

Hell I’ll be the first to admit: Walker isn’t Steve, so I don’t like him. Not hard for me lol. His face in the helmet looks punchable asf. To me his biggest crime is taking a role that imo he shouldn’t be trying to fill. And that’s personal preference. I dislike him as a choice but tbh just re watching some things and looking back, he’s very well written. Still don’t like him, but well written.

Killing Nico... yea that was dumb imo. My mind could be changed tho. AFAIR, it’s Karli alone who has killed people (though I might be wrong). Did he even know Karli was coming when he was holding Walker? Also people keep mentioning the concrete block as if that’s justification for murder. Idk, just seeing blood on the shield pissed me off.

Sam and Bucky fight was self defense imo. He shouldn’t have tried to kill Sam, since he coulda just KO’d with his super strength.

Wait I lied, he had a bigger crime than not being Steve. He lied to Lemar’s parents. That was a dick move all around imo.