What DBZ power level would you place moon busting?

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takenstew22

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takenstew22  Moderator

Poll What DBZ power level would you place moon busting? (33 votes)

100-200 27%
200-300 9%
300-400 36%
400-500 6%
500-600 12%
600-700 3%
700-800 0%
800-900 3%
900-1000 3%

800-900 imo. Though it probably should be lower, that's the fairest I could place it.

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deactivated-6349385499256

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400-500

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calljhonthanapp

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300_400 or 400_500 look good for me

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ShadowOfVertigo

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300-400

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alextheboss

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At least 300

mid ball 400-500 due to Piccolo destroying it without a charged up attack when he was in that range and was tired because of it

no more than 1,000

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Bossmountain

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At least 300

mid ball 400-500 due to Piccolo destroying it without a charged up attack when he was in that range and was tired because of it

no more than 1,000

That sounds about right.

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gdara

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300-400

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SAR_Annihilator

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Greysentinel365

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Roshi moon busted and is listed as 130 in base and 180 Buff.

So 180.

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Lordragoon

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The power level of piccolo as shown by his moon busting feat.

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deactivated-6310e05cef78c

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tbh i think in db verse moon busting is pretty low level feat - it's just how powerful the verse is

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deactivated-6310e05cef78c

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like does any remember that red ribbon army dude? who threw a concrete pillar like thousands of kms across planet and rode it lol

and he was like human level compared to main cast

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deactivated-6310e05cef78c

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lol look at this shit - threw a concrete pillar with enough force to ride it 2300 kms with no deceleration at all and hes fodder human level compared to even piccolo

Loading Video...

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deactivated-60ee8521dfb0b

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300 at bare minimum for Small Moon level

400 should be at the tier of our Moon busting

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DesmondIsBack

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Prob around 300+ - 400

Piccolo destroyed the moon at 329 but showed a little fatigue afterwards.. meaning it would’ve been less stressful if he did the feat without his weights on, and unrestricted.

21st Budokai Roshi base power lv was 139 but his Buff form power is unknown but whatever it is his super Kamehameha is multiplied by that max power and should be over 300+

But planet lv is 10,000

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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deactivated-60e9d095c91dd

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200-200

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MattyBoi

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300-400, Piccolo did it.

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Redshift_Bacon

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Depends on how much effort is out in. Im sure someone just around 300 could do it with a lot of effort, but someone with a PL around 800-900 should be anle to do it Regularly.

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LimitBreaker1

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gelato_exotic

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Roshi moon busted and is listed as 130 in base and 180 Buff.

So 180.

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darkeryoda

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30-40

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ITACHI_IS_GAWD

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alextheboss

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Roshi moon busted and is listed as 130 in base and 180 Buff.

So 180.

Why do people keep saying this incorrect rumor? Or was it just you I've corrected before multiple times? Roshi's buff form has no confirmed power level. 180 comes from his semi buff form that went even with Tein in the 21st budokai. And the kamehameha multiplies the users power level, as shown in the Raditz fight.

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alextheboss

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Greysentinel365

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@alextheboss: We've never discussed this topic.

There's no reason to assume the Kamehameha multiplies the persons power level. It's never been stated to either beyond the norm. In fact energy increases with attacks as standard

No Caption Provided

Goku increased his power to the 900s because that is his max power. Not because of some magic headcanon Kamehameha multiplier.

Even then Roshi's max output is capped below King Piccolo's 260 as he felt the Evil Containment Wave was the only option against him.

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AxiomPulse

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300-400 at the very least.

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alextheboss

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@greysentinel365:

There's no reason to assume the Kamehameha multiplies the persons power level.

Ummm it was shown to do so on screen... It brought Goku from just over 400 to over 900.

In fact energy increases with attacks as standard

Of course, but attacks like the special beam canon and kamehameha increase the users power level when charged up, this was shown.

Goku increased his power to the 900s because that is his max power. Not because of some magic headcanon Kamehameha multiplier.

Where are you getting this? The diazenshuu gave his power level and said it was 416. That's the OFFICIAL power level, not 900. The fact Piccolo's special beam canon brought him over 1,000 proves special attacks bring the users power level up. If they didn't, what the hell would be the point of using large techniques that waste a lot of energy and take time to use?

Even then Roshi's max output is capped below King Piccolo's 260 as he felt the Evil Containment Wave was the only option against him.

Maybe he thought Piccolo would just kill him before he charged up or would dodge it. I'm not even sure if Roshi can sense power levels to begin with. Also Roshi also thought he might not be able to solo the red ribbon army.... Don't tell me you think they are moon level, lol.

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alextheboss

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@desmondisback: Piccolo's power was actually over 400. It was only in the 300s because of his weighted gear, which shouldn't affect his ki blast power. And the guide that says a power level of 10,000 is needed to destroy a planet is from a Spanish non canon guide so I wouldn't put too much stock into that. Maybe10,000 can destroy a small planet. If we use the anime, 200-300 kilis was stated to be able to destroy a planet or two and that's a power level of 10 to 15 million.

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GhostGodWarren

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Greysentinel365

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#35  Edited By Greysentinel365

@alextheboss:

Ummm it was shown to do so on screen.

All that was shown was Goku's power level was rising. It was never attributed to the Kamehameha. Nor has it ever been. As stated directly by Piccolo in the scan I provided this is a normal thing brought about by their own power. Much like Krillin's resting power in the sayain saga being at 1100 by rising to 1700 when using the Scatter Bullet. Then remaining there for the rest of the fight.

Of course, but attacks like the special beam canon and kamehameha increase the users power level when charged up, this was shown.

Same as above.

Where are you getting this? The diazenshuu gave his power level and said it was 416.

His resting power without weights is 418. When at full power however

No Caption Provided

Blatantly stated to be at 910. Also to linger on the translation here

Roshi: "He fires the original Kamehameha at full power" 180.

So really that should settle this thread. And no Goku's level 910 here is simply stated to be him from the 23rd Budokai. Hence it rising to 924 (and still rising) by BoDBZ

If they didn't, what the hell would be the point of using large techniques that waste a lot of energy and take time to use?

The SPC can be fired at any point. We've seen Piccolo quick fire it. The difference is the energy put into it. The point of charging it up (in this case) is because he has to amass enough energy to kill Raditz, who is above his current level. Hence he needs time to generate, store and then launch that energy. The technique itself doesn't require the time or magically multiply the power fed into it. Launching it at that level for Piccolo at that time does.

Maybe he thought Piccolo would just kill him before he charged up or would dodge it.

Same logic would apply to ECW. In fact a max power Kamehameha would still be a better option because it doesn't kill you if it misses. So no. Roshi thought ECW was the only way to beat him. And in fact states as such. Hence his max power (which can bust moons) cannot.

I'm not even sure if Roshi can sense power levels to begin with.

Lol it's not like Roshi has fought Piccolo in the past and knows his level. Oh wait. Regardless Roshi also trained with Korin and such which is where Goku learned sensing as well. So yes. He definitely knows how lol.

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alextheboss

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@alextheboss: 10000 for small planet lol. You're funny

How is that funny? The anime itself says 200-300 kilis is needed to blow up a planet or two, and that's a power level in the millions. Vegeta, with a power level of 18,000 had to charge up a galic gun to threaten Earth.

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alextheboss

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@greysentinel365:

All that was shown was Goku's power level was rising. It was never attributed to the Kamehameha. Nor has it ever been. As stated directly by Piccolo in the scan I provided this is a normal thing brought about by their own power. Much like Krillin's resting power in the sayain saga being at 1100 by rising to 1700 when using the Scatter Bullet. Then remaining there for the rest of the fight.

Vegeta's galic gun was stated to work like the kamehameha and it brought his power level up to 24,000. GG

Same as above.

Piccolo's max power was not above Radtiz's, this is not a counter.

His resting power without weights is 418. When at full power however

No Caption Provided

Blatantly stated to be at 910. Also to linger on the translation here

That guide is incorrect, as it has Kami weaker than King Piccolo and Poppo, even though Kami finger flicked Goku who was equal to king piccolo and Popo said he was like a mouse compared to Kami. That isn't from the daizenshuu either, and the daizenshuu takes president.

Roshi: "He fires the original Kamehameha at full power" 180.

Is that what it states in the text? Incorrect guide anyways.

The SPC can be fired at any point. We've seen Piccolo quick fire it. The difference is the energy put into it. The point of charging it up (in this case) is because he has to amass enough energy to kill Raditz, who is above his current level. Hence he needs time to generate, store and then launch that energy. The technique itself doesn't require the time or magically multiply the power fed into it. Launching it at that level for Piccolo at that time does.

Yeah, and the kamehameha can be fired quickly or charged, Roshi charged it... for a long time...

Same logic would apply to ECW. In fact a max power Kamehameha would still be a better option because it doesn't kill you if it misses.

The Kamehameha wouldn't, but Piccolo would. What could Roshi do if King Piccolo kills him after failing? The answer is nothing. Roshi thought he had a sure fire way to win, so he took it. He was also extremely old and didn't mid dying.

Lol it's not like Roshi has fought Piccolo in the past and knows his level. Oh wait.

He was a kid back then and I doubt Piccolo had to use his full power on them.

If Roshi really did blow up the moon with a power level of 180 it would just be an inconsistency/outlier, as Yajirobe, who was also around 180 was completely amazed Goku, who was stronger than him, could beat someone who could destroy cities, and the daizenshuu says King Piccolo has the power of a small nuke.

If we go by actual feats, statements, and guides,

BOS base Roshi: less than 139, had to go buff to put out fire on mountain, therefore 139 is likely less than mountain level

Tao Pai Pai: almost killed by a powerful grenade, power level likely over 100 and clearly not near moon level

Yajirobe: about 180, scared of city busting power

King Piccolo: 260, destroyed a city, stated to be nuke level in daizenshuu

23rd Piccolo: power level over 300, wiped away island stated to be small continent size in daizenshuu and took all of his power to do so

23rd Goku: tanked Piccolo's attack and super kamehameha is stated to be moon level, it's power level would definitely be over 300

max power Roshi: destroyed moon, but power level unknown

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darkeryoda

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@alextheboss: Yajirobe cannot use ki so his PL being 180 does not matter

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Greysentinel365

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#39  Edited By Greysentinel365

@alextheboss:

Vegeta's galic gun was stated to work like the kamehameha and it brought his power level up to 24,000. GG

Nope. Just means he gathered the energy to make it that powerful. Which, since it's above his base, took time. How about instead of pussyfooting around this you provide a statement that the attacks themselves amplify their abilities beyond their "base."

Piccolo's max power was not above Radtiz's, this is not a counter.

Which is why he had to gather energy for a period. You just can't get that.

That guide is incorrect, as it has Kami weaker than King Piccolo and Poppo, even though Kami finger flicked Goku who was equal to king piccolo and Popo said he was like a mouse compared to Kami.

Just means Kami got weaker by Z as that's the point in time the guide is pulling from for him.

That isn't from the daizenshuu either, and the daizenshuu takes president.

Evidence required.

Yeah, and the kamehameha can be fired quickly or charged, Roshi charged it... for a long time...

No. He didn't. If you want to go by the series it's barely a 20 second launch time (which for DBZ is damn quick). In the Manga he does it in 1 page while Goku is moving to smash him. So barely a few seconds. Likely less as Goku is insanely fast in that state.

So no. He quick fired it.

He was a kid back then and I doubt Piccolo had to use his full power on them.

That doesn't help your case as it suggest he thinks suppressed Piccolo is beyond his power to handle conventionally.

as Yajirobe, who was also around 180 was completely amazed Goku, who was stronger than him, could beat someone who could destroy cities, and the daizenshuu says King Piccolo has the power of a small nuke.

You are always going to be amazed by people stronger than you. Everything is relative. The context translation states Piccolo's specific attack had the power of small nuke. This is in reference to his promise to blow up a city once a year on the anniversary of his rule.

Likewise, Yajirobe has no ki attack or as such that suggest he could have the same destructive potential. Even if he has physicals on par.

If we go by actual feats

Roshi destroyed the moon and himself is hardlocked below the likes of King Piccolo. Get over it.

23rd Piccolo: power level over 300, wiped away island stated to be small continent size in daizenshuu and took all of his power to do so

Took all of his power at the time. Remember this was after Piccolo had grown giant, fought Goku a ton and.... oh yeah. Tanked the Super Kamehameha which as you so helpfully reminded us was

23rd Goku: tanked Piccolo's attack and super kamehameha is stated to be moon level

So Piccolo after a prolonged battle which included tanking a moon level attack + his own attack and regrowing an arm is island level. And note that after this he subdues all of the Z-Fighters when they attempt to help Goku after taking another Kamehameha. So I heavily doubt it was actually all his power. Simply all he had at that moment. As Piccolo helpfully states

No Caption Provided

So no. Your own line of scaling doesn't back you up here. And your blatant omission of context to downplay them does not look great.

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alextheboss

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@greysentinel365:

Nope. Just means he gathered the energy to make it that powerful. Which, since it's above his base, took time. How about instead of pussyfooting around this you provide a statement that the attacks themselves amplify their abilities beyond their "base."

Dude, of course it's the fact that they charge them up that increases their power level. The kamehameha is just a move that allows a user to focus and charge their ki. It doesn't have a set multiplier, it just allows characters to increase their attack power, like any other special move.

Which is why he had to gather energy for a period. You just can't get that.

I never said it instantly amplifies their power, but the kamehameha usually always takes some time to charge, hence the three stage name while you charge it.

Just means Kami got weaker by Z as that's the point in time the guide is pulling from for him.

The Daizenshuu is the only true dbz guide approved by Toriyama. That's not the only problem, Chichi and Tao being that high doesn't make much sense.

Evidence required.

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Daizenshuu#:~:text=The%20Daizenshuu%20(%E5%A4%A7%E5%85%A8%E9%9B%86%2C%20Daizensh%C5%AB,updated%20information%2C%20the%20Chouzenshuu%20books.

The daizenshuu is the official guide that is published for dragon ball. The list you are using is just a list that came out in a magazine called weekly jump.

No. He didn't. If you want to go by the series it's barely a 20 second launch time (which for DBZ is damn quick). In the Manga he does it in 1 page while Goku is moving to smash him. So barely a few seconds. Likely less as Goku is insanely fast in that state.

So no. He quick fired it.

Even so, Goku's power level jumped up to 924 in one panel, and no that's not his normal power level. Want to know how I know that? Raditz was fighting him for over an entire chapter already, and that was the first time Goku's power level jumped that high.

You are always going to be amazed by people stronger than you. Everything is relative. The context translation states Piccolo's specific attack had the power of small nuke. This is in reference to his promise to blow up a city once a year on the anniversary of his rule.

Likewise, Yajirobe has no ki attack or as such that suggest he could have the same destructive potential. Even if he has physicals on par.

I agree with this, but he thought beating a city buster was amazing, not the city busting itself.

Roshi destroyed the moon and himself is hardlocked below the likes of King Piccolo. Get over it.

Vegeta's final flash was stronger than Cell, Cell is hard locked over Vegeta. Get your poor abc logic out of here. If King Piccolo was a master of ki like roshi and knew how to amplify and his power with a kamehameha or special beam canon, then sure, I agree he would be moon level, but all he knows how to do are fire basic ki blasts.

Took all of his power at the time. Remember this was after Piccolo had grown giant, fought Goku a ton and.... oh yeah. Tanked the Super Kamehameha which as you so helpfully reminded us was

23rd Goku: tanked Piccolo's attack and super kamehameha is stated to be moon level

He was stronger than kami at that point. 23rd Piccolo and Goku are both master fighters above Roshi, so them being Roshi makes some sense. King Piccolo is someone who could potentially be moon level, but just doesn't have the technique to quite back it up. It's kind of like the Yajirobe thing. He can't blow up pretty much anything since he doesn't have ki attacks, but he could beat almost anyone from the 21st budokai. King Piccolo is similar but he has basic ki attacks so he can easily wipe out cities (and possibly quite a bit more). Give him a better move and he can probably destroy the moon.

So Piccolo after a prolonged battle which included tanking a moon level attack + his own attack and regrowing an arm is island level. And note that after this he subdues all of the Z-Fighters when they attempt to help Goku after taking another Kamehameha. So I heavily doubt it was actually all his power. Simply all he had at that moment. As Piccolo helpfully states

Yeah, I have no problem with him being continental to moon level at that time. King Piccolo "could" be moon level as well, but it's highly questionable.

So no. Your own line of scaling doesn't back you up here. And your blatant omission of context to downplay them does not look great.

The context doesn't dispute my scaling. I never gave limits to anything, and tired 23rd budokai Piccolo would still wreck a fresh King Piccolo.

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Da-Captain

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takenstew22

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#42 takenstew22  Moderator
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Da-Captain

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@da-captain said:

@takenstew22: Power levels aren't a thing.

If you're talking about after Namek Saga, then maybe.

No I talking about power levels being a reliable source of information. We just can't look at a number and claim they're this powerful or strong, yet will change as the series progresses.

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takenstew22

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#44 takenstew22  Moderator

@takenstew22 said:
@da-captain said:

@takenstew22: Power levels aren't a thing.

If you're talking about after Namek Saga, then maybe.

No I talking about power levels being a reliable source of information. We just can't look at a number and claim they're this powerful or strong, yet will change as the series progresses.

But that's exactly what they do...

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ReaperTheGrim

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none of the above

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takenstew22

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#46 takenstew22  Moderator
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Around 400

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ReaperTheGrim

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#48  Edited By ReaperTheGrim

@reaperthegrim said:

none of the above

Where do you place it then?

I don't care for the exact power level, but anyone above REcoome should be a moon buster.

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takenstew22

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#49  Edited By takenstew22  Moderator

@reaperthegrim said:
@takenstew22 said:
@reaperthegrim said:

none of the above

Where do you place it then?

I don't care for the exact power level, but anyone above REcoome should be a moon buster.

I'm guessing BoZ Piccolo busting the moon isn't a legit feat for you?

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ReaperTheGrim

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@reaperthegrim said:
@takenstew22 said:
@reaperthegrim said:

none of the above

Where do you place it then?

I don't care for the exact power level, but anyone above REcoome should be a moon buster.

I'm guessing BoZ Piccolo busting the moon isn't a legit feat for you?

No. As far as I'm concerned, if you take both the moon feats of roshi and piccolo as illegitimate outliers, then the power scaling from the Saiyan saga up to the end of Freeza saga flows logically and linearly with clear cut dc feats and no need to delve into subjective ap debates. If you take the moon feats seriously then it makes every time Toriyama gives emphasis to collateral damage nonsensical, as the characters should be able to do far more than that easily. i.e. Nappa's hole in the ground feat, and Vegeta and Recomes massive blasts on Namek.

Obviously, the moon feats exist, so I can hardly criticize people for using them as evidence, but I just write them off as Toriyama delving into his gag writer roots. If you take the moon feats as legitimate, and thus take Vegeta's planet bust statement seriously, then it doesn't really make sense to go through the entire Namek arc with all the characters strength increasing exponentially, and yet, the dc feats remain the same, all the way up until Freeza takes the field, who's entire gimmick is based around the fact that he can and will destroy planets with ease.