Was Miriotaga right about Haku's (Fairy Tail) statement?

Introduction

Hey what’s up everyone, I’m making this thread to shed some light on @miriotogata thread that “debunked” Haku being lightspeed, as seen below.

Now I know the only people who supported this are known to troll in FT related threads, but there were some who aren’t who genuinely looked like they thought Mirio made some good points. This thread is going to briefly go over why his arguments are wrong or why he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I could go on about how lightspeed is not an outlier in Fairy Tail because Selene uses LS attacks, but that’s a debate for a different time. Anyways, moving on:

(forgive me for my formatting, I tried my best to make it look neat)

Is Haku being metaphorical?

This is all of the evidence Mirio gave to prove that Haku was being metaphorical. The first scan is him saying that Haku’s statement is comparative, and thus should automatically be metaphorical.

Now, I don’t speak Japanese, but this is obviously an extremely flawed argument because while yes, comparatives are sometimes depicted with similes and metaphors (like “it’s hot as hell”), it isn’t always the case. Otherwise you can’t take anything someone says seriously when they’re comparing something, Elefseria’s statement being a perfect example:

Unless someone can prove that Haku’s wording had to be metaphorical, my point stands, but even your “neutral” translator said it can be used metaphorically. Mirio goes on to use the second scan as further proof of it being metaphorical. I have no idea which translation site he used, but google translate (the most well known one) says this:

Not only is it different, but Mirio didn’t include the rest of the sentence: “It’s a speed that can be compared to light.” Light is mentioned twice, obviously because the author wanted to draw our attention to it.

It even looks like light’s surrounding Haku when he’s blitzing Wendy:

Then again, online translators aren’t always the best to use. As someone who has studied 3 languages (English not included) for years, I can assure that they aren’t always accurate. If you don’t want to take my word, then ask someone you know or trust who’s studied languages and they’ll confirm it.

Credibility of his translator: @joviolma

Mirio frequently used his “neutral” translator who he claims knows what he’s/she’s talking about:

Is he/she really neutral? Let’s look at some threads:

Made 3 years ago. Even the current FT guild isn’t moon level and this would be a spite thread today. So let’s see if he’s/she’s changed since then.

This is from the “Isshiki runs a fairy tail gauntlet” thread.

From this thread:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/irene-erza-august-and-acnologia-fairy-tail-vs-jige-2081329/

No words needed lol.

I don’t watch RoR but I’ve heard that even without them being universal, they already have planet level feats. This might be the odd one out, but otherwise I’ve already proved that he’s/she’s not neutral.

Tatoe

Funny enough, the definition of a “tatoe” that Mirio gave was directly against his argument. Have a look:

The first and most used way of using a “tatoe” is by using a literal example, the second and less common use is when you’re taking figurative/metaphorical stances. It doesn’t hurt to read Mirio, especially when it’s your own evidence. Let’s see what @joviolma has to say about tatoes:

(From now on I’m going to refer to @joviolma as a “she” since her discord name is Lynn lol. I’m tired of writing “he/she” all the time, my apologies if I’m wrong).

So she seems 100% confident that tatoes aren’t literal. Let’s see what another CV user has to say about this so we can more than 1 opinion:

(from this thread: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/how-fast-is-the-fairy-tail-verse-2241827/?page=3)

Now, how do we know this user knows what he’s talking about? Let’s keep on reading:

This user reads the raws every single week so he’s clearly knowledgeable. How do we know he's not lying? This brings me on to my next point, which are the scare quotes.

Scare Quotes: Yes or no?

And how do you know these are scare quotes? What evidence have you brought up to prove this? Let’s see what his trusty translator has to say:

So again, nothing but a faulty translator and assuming that Haku’s statement is metaphorical just because it uses the word “like,” which I’ve already proven is terrible logic.

Calm down buddy, we’re not done yet. Mirio’s and joviolma’s arguments might seem convincing at first, but thankfully UstanLeengard provided actual evidence unlike the other two:

This proves that Ustan reads the Japanese raws ever week. He provided 4 scans and explained how the quotes are used in each instance. I linked the thread from where this was taken above so you can take a look at the 4 examples he posted. This means that joviolma either:

1) Knew that there were multiple ways of using a tatoe but deliberately pretended like there weren’t.

OR

2) Didn’t know and isn’t a reliable translator.

Both scenarios are detrimental to Mirio’s argument.

Those 4 scans that UstanLeengard brought up is already more (credible) evidence than anything Mirio has posted, but I was curious about whether there were more instances where the quotation marks are used to emphasize literary elements. I skimmed through the Japanese raws of some chapters, and every time I saw quotations on a word or phrase, it was always literal. Not sometimes, always. You’re free to find and give me many examples of it being used in a metaphorical way in FT 100 year quest, but you’ll probably find even more examples proving my (well, Ustan’s lol) point. Huge credits to @ustanleengard by the way.

Examples of quotes being used in a literal sense.

There are quite a few examples I found while skimming through the raws. I specifically looked at chapters 69 to 99, and browsed a bit through the Aldoron arc. There are instances where the same word is repeated in quotations (like “hand” in the Elentir arc due to their importance to the story), so I will only use one of them so I don’t spam the thread with the same evidence over and over again. This might be the most convincing section for you all. I’ll give you the picture of the raws where the quotes are used and link you with the English translation so you can see for yourself. Here they all are:

(chapter 85: https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-85-page-15.html)

The word in quotes is “Face,” which as we all know are literal faces, not metaphorical ones.

(chapter 70, back to back pages https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-70-page-8.html)

In these 2 scans, the words “spiritual arts” and “Sprior” are in quotes. Again, spiritual arts are not metaphorical, they are literally spiritual arts that one uses. Same with sprior, it is not a metaphor, it’s the literal name of energy that the monsters are made of and that enables one to use spiritual arts. Trying putting this in the real world. If someone were to ask a magician how they did a trick, and he responded “magic,” you’d know he’s not being literal right? Well in the FT world, magic (and spiritual arts/sprior) are actually real, so the quotation marks are used in a literal sense.

(also from chapter 70)

The word in quotes is Yokai, which are the monsters that Yoko creates with her spiritual art. Now what are Yokais?

I put the translations from both the FT wiki and google translate. Yoko’s Yokai are literal monsters/apparitions, so yet again the quotation marks have proven to emphasize literal things.

(chapter 71, https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-71-page-10.html)

The word in quotes is “women,” which, if you look at the chapter, you will see are literal women.

(also chapter 71)

The word in quotes is Kasha, which is the name of the Yokai she summoned. It has the same name as the Yokai in Japanese folklore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasha_(folklore)), which literally means “burning chariot” or “burning barouche.” Another great example of the quotes being literal, since the Yokai’s a literal burning chariot.

From my search, almost all of Yoko’s Yokais have quotation marks on them used in a literal way. To save time and space, I won’t post them all, but you’re free to check for yourself.

(chapter 87, https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-87-page-9.html)

There are 5 words in quotes in this one scan alone. 3 of them are for “hand” (which we know is literal), 1 for “Face” (also literal), and the last one is in the middle left when Wendy says “structure,” explaining that the structure of the hands and Face are the same. Again, the literal structure is the same, not some metaphorical structure.

(chapter 93, https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-93-page-7.html)

The word in quotes is “dragonization,” the process in which a human turns into a dragon. Elefseria explains this happened to him. Obviously used in a literal sense.

(also chapter 93)

The word in quotes is “Great Labyrinth of Dogra,” the name of the literal labyrinth.

(also chapter 93, what’s up with this chapter lmao)

Two words are in quotes: the first being “law dragon” and the second being “law.” Both are referring to Elefseria and his magic. He’s the literal law dragon and his element is literally “law.” A couple of pages later, the name “negative legacy” is in quotes, but it’s too vague at the moment since we know nothing about the weapon. Even so, the concept of the weapon having a negative legacy being true makes sense.

(chapter 94, https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-94-page-10.html)

The word “heart” is in quotes. Selene is telling FT to retrieve Elefseria’s heart, a literal heart as described in chapter 93.

(chapter 37, https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-37-page-13.html)

The name in quotes is “Beta Heaven,” which is the name Zeref gives to Natsu’s mental heaven. It’s described in the following pages as the image of heaven that resides in a person’s unconscious mind.

(chapter 77: https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-77-page-6.html)

Three words are in quotes: Tsumeaka, hands, and people. The latter 2 are obviously literal since there are literal giant hands that are creating monsters that can disguise as people. These monsters are called “Tsumeakas,” which are the following:

Yet again, the quotation marks are emphasizing a literal aspect. These monsters are made from literal fingernail dirt as seen below:

(same chapter, next page)

You can even see the word “hand” in quotation marks, and like Ustan said, the quotes are emphasizing the literal giant hands, not some metaphorical ones.

Haku acting like a child:

This section is pretty straightforward. 3 out of the 5 scans you showed were before Haku was serious, and the 2 last ones have instances where he’s acting serious but commenting on how he has a crush on Wendy. That doesn’t invalidate everything Haku says, especially when he was fully serious when he said he’s light speed:

Cherry Picking again are you Mirio? Nothing unexpected or new though. If you want to debunk Haku's statement by making him seem childish, you have to show him acting childish in the moment he made that statement, which we can clearly see he's being serious and not acting like a kid.

Mangahelpers credibility:

Oh wow, we finally found something you’re correct about. The mangahelpers user, Cheesecake, admitted that he isn’t a pro translator and gets some things wrong:

I don’t know why you brought this up though since he’s not the one who translates the FT chapters in any of the fan websites, he’s just a chill guy who gives us a rough translation using his knowledge on Japanese before the chapter drops:

And same goes for Kiki, another Mangahelpers user who gives us a rough translation. But in this case, Kiki is more experienced and used to be an actual translator for YonkouProductions, a prominent leaker, whom I'm sure you know of.

Since Kiki has a lot of credibility, let’s see his thoughts on LS Haku:

It also wouldn’t have hurt to spend a couple of seconds to check the names of the translators of the 100YQ chapters Mirio:

There are two who officially make sure the translations are correct for every 100YQ English chapter release. The translator, proofreader, Kiki, and Cheesecake all are in agreement that Haku is not being metaphorical but, in fact, literal. Who do you have to prove your points? Joviolma lmao?

It's in the first 2 pages of literally every single chapter. Like you said, feel free to check if you don’t believe all of this.

Outlier section:

…

Yea this obviously has no credibility to it. A comedic moment, travel speed =/= attack speed, this being an outlier at best, etc. By this logic characters like current Luffy are subsonic and can get one shot by Nami, so no point in going over this in detail.

Well that’s that. Before Mirio made his post, I was almost 100% certain that Haku is LS, but after seeing his post and making mine, I’ve become completely certain. Thanks to everyone I’ve mentioned in my post who helped me, and also thanks to you too Mirio. Bringing up “tatoe” and scare quotes ended up strengthening my arguments and gave me more to work with, other than debating which translation is better and having to explain how human Selene uses LS attacks and that the BDSKs scale to her.

As shown above, all of Mirio’s points were false and/or cherry picked to suit his argument. If his translator actually knew what she was talking about, she would’ve mentioned these flaws to him, but from what we’ve seen, she didn’t, so there’s that.

Happy Early Martin Luther King Jr’s Day everyone! :)

I'll try to link everyone who I think might be interested:

@jdogg@cocacolaman@el_directo_@vex_haid@@lameliarleo@renthemage@paxa@molt@animefreak1@alextheboss@hittheassasin@theoneaboveyall@yamatama@floridaman29@edgelord91@ragegod@emperor99@gogito@wiseforages@binnk@cosmicemperor

@deyyy@ultimatesage@eazy_pezy@manimalman@seb178@yray@shirso@wk_decaff@high_pressure@morningstar999

@necromancer76@pics@lichgod3@jurrian09@grandtoaa@hody_jones@wot_m8@varricpatermann@tagsorwhatever

Not sure why I was tagged but I have nothing to do with this.

Lowballers atm🚶

Don't worry though, someone will make a bad argument and everyone will jump on that.

Great Thread, The Salt Will not stop though, I can guarantee you that

Look I'm in the post

I also don't have any issue with it being accepted as LS

My bad if you didn't want in on this, I just copied the people Mirio tagged.

@mike_coxsmall: Yes

I appreciate it, thank you

@dimitri1220: I sent you something

@dimitri1220: great post, i was also leaning to Haku being LS before but reinforced my belief after this (not 100% as i prefer not being absolutely certain of anything but 90% or something like that).

I accept it being LS.

Seems fine to me personally.

@dimitri1220: not sure if you saw it but we are waiting for you in the PM

As the owner of the server where all this went down my heart swells with pride.

@vex_haid: Proof?

@valhallavolund: for?

@vex_haid: Your claim of Mirio not being able to debate for crap?

@valhallavolund: he is a known mashima verse lowballer

and still uses stuff like wendy struggling to run away from a falling rock to downplay its speed

@vex_haid: Scans?

@valhallavolund:

got it from this thread

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/ft-ls-haku-debunked-2248752/

Really nicely done. You went into way more detail than I did. Thanks for crediting me in the post. I'll be sure to link this the next time someone says Haku isn't lightspeed.

@ustanleengard: No problem. I should mention that im still not entirely certain about the tatoe section depending on the wording used, but otherwise I think everything else is correct. Even in the worst case scenario where Haku is being metaphorical, he still scales to Selene who uses LS attacks. My post was mainly targeted at Mirio's, if I wanted to prove LS FT I wouldn't even have to mention Haku lol. Well I'm done for now when it comes to speed debates, they're the most tiring part of debating. 😂

Lmao lots of feelings put into this, applause for the effort 👏

.......also prepare your popcorn everyone lmao it's coming

Not gonna even lie, this is a good thread.

Tho I don't think you should call jov a faulty translator due to that reason

Thank you.

With the knowledge I had before, that was the logical conclusion, though I spoke with her and she explained her points a bit more. I take back my statements on her being a faulty translator and also on the tatoe being literal in this instance. So the first three sections (not counting introduction) of my post are wrong because while they are correct, they don't fit in this scenario because the tatoe Haku used is mainly used in a metaphorical sense. The rest of the thread is still correct (scare quotes to the outlier section). You win some and lose some lmao.

This doesn't mean that FT isn't LS though, as this thread was only aimed at countering Mirio's post. While Haku's statement isn't literal, he scales to Selene who uses LS magic, so the scaling still stands. Even when he blitzes or dodges Wendy's attacks he's shown to be covered in light.

Kudos good job and an good way to start the day

This will certainly be interesting

Thank God for people like dimitri and ustan for taking the baton to debunk that debunk.

That mirio's post has lowkey been on my mind to debunk for a while now but I just don't have that time anymore.

I keep saying it, with time people will come to accept LS FT.

oh i already prepared mine

anyways overall nice thread.idk why I was tagged tho since i only asked to be tagged so i can see the reactions

I have my own nitpicks about the thread ofc since nothing is perfect.but again nice job on the thread overall!

@dimitri1220:

I see

@dimitri1220

Well the, it's good to see my thread got revived after getting shut down due to a certain user dropping random insults against anyone who was supporting it, right @vex_haid ? And you're still insulting me. I guess that ban you've got just few weeks ago and the multiple warnings were not enough, hmm?

miriotogata is obviously not right, he cant debate for crap, one of the worst debaters i have ever saw, whoever believes him are either bots, trolls or alts

Anyway, i'll be short, don't worry.

Now I know the only people who supported this are known to troll in FT related threads

Interesting. So anyone who doesn't support or do not really think LS Haku = automatic trolls? That's kinda hypocritical if you ask me, Dimitri. Especially when the trolls in my threads were FT supporters, that started dropping insults over insults... and also a questionable and unbacked single translation that had to remove certain parts/context of the original text of the raws in order to function.

You're free to check who trolled and who got exposed at changing the original text. And you're not really in a better position, since this is what you said about my thread:

Notice that i've never engaged someone in that thread. It's a shame that you started insulting me and the others in that way... and in another unrelated thread too.

Credibility of his translator: @joviolma

Dimitri... you're saying Cheesecake and other dude are reliable, but saying someone else’s credibility in translations is less reliable due to something they said in battle threads... is hypocritical... when Cheesecake is the guy who made up translations about FTL that don’t exist anywhere.

Yup, one of your "very credible" translators made up the whole FTL stuff. But i'm sure you already knew it, don't you?

But this isn't over yet... even the other translator, Kiki, is not sure about that LS statement:

“Imo it’s LS” which makes it where even Kiki is unsure based on his imo statement. Otherwise he’d say something like yeah it’s LS and be done with it.

Furthermore I don’t Kiki does the main translations either iirc he doesn’t know a lot of Japanese but he just drops a short summary. Cheesecake does the detailed translations he’s supposed to be the “main translator” on Mangahelper... which tells you a lot about his credibility after that whole fake Haku going FTL translation.

--- REGARDING JOVIOLMA'S TRANSLATIONS ---

Basically you think @joviolma translations are not credible just because of a battle thread... and because he thinks Isshiki beats some FT characters?

Seems like your logic is that since he think FT is an inferior version of two manga series... this somehow affects his translations, when he used them to debunk things from any work so far. So this is not an actual argument... seems like you're just angry for no special reason. You didn't even try to counter the translation itself, just how Jovi views FT as fodder/inferior compared with other series.

Let alone that Jov is well known by many because he always help translating several raws of several series. Many users you tagged know that... something that i couldn't say about your buddy, @ustanleegard ... a fresh new account that nobody knows nor helped translating raws.

Fear not, you can discuss with Jov about all of this Haku-situation on Discord. So i suggest you to accept the invitation, since you do not have problems at posting Discord stuff it seems.

Rememeber that Jov translations were right a bunch of times and Kiki’s and Cheesecakes were wrong when raws dropped, as i've shown in my previous thread.

EDIT --- looks like you've already talked with him and came to the conclusion that his translation and the whole tatoe-discussion was accurate, basing on your post#32

--- BACK TO HAKU & TATOERA ---

Tatoe are methaporical examples. Worthy to say that Haku says ''Tatoera'', which is ONLY used in metaphors. As you conceeded to be true back in your post #32 aswell.

Notice how they are ALL metaphors or similes ^ None of them are actually literal comparisons, as in, setting something equal or above something else.

And this leads us to the next point:

--- SCARE QUOTES ---

First of all... allow me to say that the scare quotes are not the main part of the debunk... the metaphor is on the words. The scare quotes is an extra to further cementing my claims, since the whole text and the usage of tatoera confirms it was all a methapor/figurative statement.

Haku was surrounded by light?!

Even when he blitzes or dodges Wendy's attacks he's shown to be covered in light.

Allow me to say that's just pure reaching, since drawing magic aura around a character is a common thing. Let's take for example a random character of a random chapter, Mimi.

Gallery

She is literally surrounded by a magic aura while moving and attacking. Does this means she's going LS? Does this mean she's covered in light? Funny, since even Lucy is surrounded by the same aura in that exact same chapter.

Let alone that FT have many other examples of magic aura, like Jellal or even Charla and Happy when they fly.

And yup, he was acting like a child for most of the times he appeared in the panels, especially imediately before and right after attacking Wendy.

Gallery

Haku was playing to be a tiger for the whole fight, just like a common child.

The Wendy situation...

And this one is kinda... particular. I don't even know why y'all are so focused on a single panel and few words i've posted about Wendy. Let's see what i said:

Notice that i've never talked about any Wendy's feat or else. I just said that the whole "FTL Base Wendy" is absurd, since she couldn't even react to him even with the help of Irene... and few seconds after she was able to see him and even block one of his fists... all alone... it's the embodiment of an outlier.

I choose that panel just because it was one of the most recent (same chapter that Wendy met Haku btw) and funniest. Nothing else, nothing more. Of course, i could've used so many counters by using Wendy's feats etc. but, as i said, it was not necessary.

So the whole argument you and your dear friends, like Vex, keep using is just your words. Nothing came out from my mouth about falling rocks or stuff like that.

Funny since this argument was brought to the table only by FT stans, like Vex ^ this means you're aware that something is wrong with Wendy to begin with. Ironic.

In Conclusion...

You have my thanks, Dimitri. Thanks to your thread i've found even more arguments to further support my debunk-claims. From your discussion with JOV, to Tatoerareru, to the Mangahelpers translators faking translations and acting unsure.

I'll add these things to my Blog!

Hmmm this popcorn ran out too fast🤣🤣🤣

@vex_haid:again, stop with the insults. You don't like his arguments? No problem. But talk about them without calling him a kid, etc. Temp ban for here and another thread.

@eazy_pezy: @mike_coxsmall:warning for insults.

My friend, you have earned a gold medal. Outstanding work.

This whole debate of ''your translation is wrong and mine is right'' is getting cringe as of late. It got amusing to the point some CV users thinking they are linguistic scientists. We have dozens of manga English websites that have existed for years and are used by manga readers worldwide, and they all commonly agree Haku's statement is literally LS.

Then we have the disagree side, who argue the overwhelming translations are all wrong because some random guy on a discord (*cough* echo chamber) server translated it to something else. How do y'all rely on Joviolma translating a complex language like Japanese, when the dude's got English grammar errors all over the place? Lmao, this is clown shit.

The sad thing is, joviolma's translation is not actually a debunk because little Mirrio (or his other alts like woodwarrior or TheGuildLove) couldn't objectively prove it to be metaphor speech, merely wants to force it as such. I don't expect him to either, this is the same fraud who uses a scan from 2012 to lowball a verse's speed.

Lmfao this shit is peak, vex getting banned is also good news😂😂😂

^^^^^^

Indeed. 😂

I literally am only commenting because I feel like pointing this out for those who may somehow come by this thread while wanting to know about rhetoric.

Now I know the only people who supported this are known to troll in FT related threads

"Interesting. So anyone who doesn't support or do not really think LS Haku = automatic trolls?"

Read what Dmitri said then what Mirio said they said. Dmitri didn't say that anyone who is against the LS Haku notion is automatically a troll, they said that the people in the specific thread mentioned have been known as trolls against Fairy Tail. There was no cause/effect statement that Dmitri made, they just made an observation about those who happened to agree in Mirio's thread. Now whether Dmitri's point is correct or fully logical itself is another discussion but this point is a fantastic example of a fallacy.

Again...

Chill bruh we just playing around

He won't because he's a coward🤷‍♂️

@eazy_pezy: Such projection, Eazy. 😏 I'm not the one doing the backbiting. I'm not the one who mentions somebody hundreds of times while they're not present. Backbiting is what a coward does, Eazy, and that's a hobby you routinely engage in your echo chamber. You don't want me to post those screenshots, would you? 😉 Thought not. Btw, why did you edit your comment? Hmm. Let's not derail the thread any further, for your own sake because you ended up deactivating your account in the middle of a CaV 😹