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Posted by ganon15 (7225 posts) 2 years, 11 months ago

Poll: Was Captain America: TWS better than its sequel? (98 votes)

Yes 66%
No 33%
No Caption Provided

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#51 Posted by klbro123 (383 posts) - - Show Bio
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#52 Posted by APEX_pretador (21349 posts) - - Show Bio

@depinhom said:

Better than CW? No way!

this

Nah, enjoyed Civil War a lot more. Character dynamics and motives were pitch perfect, story was a lot more emotional and deep, arguably the best villain in the MCU, Spider-Man, and the best fight scene in a CBM.

Winter Soldier didn't do nearly as much for me by comparison.

this

Civil War was an Avengers movie. Lets be real here.

and this

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#53 Posted by MonsterStomp (36975 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally, I liked TWS a lot more.

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#54 Posted by NeonGameWave (19333 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

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#55 Posted by black_wreath (13557 posts) - - Show Bio

TWS is overrated.

Civil War pisses all over it.

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#56 Posted by spencermanprime (175 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer Civil War.

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#57 Posted by deactivated-5c9535a734784 (2578 posts) - - Show Bio
No and the fact that 'yes' is winning in the poll is displeasing.
No and the fact that 'yes' is winning in the poll is displeasing.

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#58 Posted by lubub55 (12982 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes. Civil War isn't even that good.

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#59 Posted by SanoHibiki (3457 posts) - - Show Bio

TWS > CW for me.

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#60 Posted by Pokeysteve (12025 posts) - - Show Bio

Winter Soldier is my favorite MCU movie so far. Civil War doesn't come close. Weak story that was carried by all the new characters and the Avengers-like feel.

WS had a solid meaningful story that CW just didn't.

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#61 Posted by sl-wopr (359 posts) - - Show Bio

CW was one of the weakest MCU movie till date story wise, humor wise, action wise. Some scenes screamed unneeded, motivations unconvincing, actors played wooden, numerous plot holes, weak and undeveloped villain(yeah, its trademark already) the overall movie dragged too much and felt really boring with the very few exceptions(Parker apartment scenes, airport fight).

TWS is the best MCU till date. Sure it had plot holes and stupid scenes but it was directed so well that you could let it pass. Whats strange is that CW felt like it was directed by other people. The choice is simple.

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#63 Edited by DevilFruit (362 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman: @ready_4_madness: I'm gonna start calling you guys the DC hater club. You guys are always the first two in every Marvel thread hating.

LMAO at the DC regulars throwing salt.

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#64 Edited by Funrush (1486 posts) - - Show Bio

Winter Soldier has a more solid plot and you don't need a ton of backstory going in.

Civil War is great if you've seen the other ones because the character work is amazing but Zemo is pretty weak.

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#65 Posted by the_stegman (40323 posts) - - Show Bio

@devilfruit: Did you just bump a month old post to insult me where I simply say "Yes"?

Troll harder.

Moderator
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#66 Posted by godzilla44 (7603 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say so. I had a ton of problems with CW. Tony's character in particular and there was a ton of fat.

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#67 Posted by Hocko1999_VIRUS (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

Civil War worked better as an Avengers film. So the Winter Soldier

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#68 Posted by Gracetrack (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel that both movies are overrated here on the vine, but Civil War is far more overrated than TWS.

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#69 Posted by Amendment50 (15592 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked Civil War better, though TWS was more of a "Captain America" film.

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#70 Posted by CraftyHighlander (26 posts) - - Show Bio

Winter Soldier is 1 of my fav comic book films. I enjoy the cold war/spy thriller feel it has. All the characters are actually relevant and serve a purpose. Black Widow is given more character development in this 1 film than she does in all her other appearances combined. Solid action scenes. All good.

I still enjoyed Civil War but for me on my second viewing it felt long. Everyone seemed to want to have conversations during their fights. Emo Wanda.

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#71 Posted by DarthVxder (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

I was bored watching CW in the theater half the time. I actually looked at the time to see if it was close to ending and that rarely happens to me since I dont mind watching bad movies if they have a guilty pleasure to them.

Not saying its bad but WS is one of my favorite CBM while CW I probably wont even bother watching again unfortunately. I wish I could enjoy it as much as other people.

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#72 Posted by MAZAHS117 (12951 posts) - - Show Bio

I think so. I like Winter Soldier more as a condensed Captain America focused story. Civil War could have, and should have, been an Avengers movie. It's really like Avengers 2.5 the more I think about it.

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#73 Posted by Deathstroke52 (7006 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah. TWS was tight.

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#74 Edited by Arcadian (487 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer Winter Soldier in storytelling, but Civil War in scope.

It's just hilarious that these polls keep getting made to feed the hunger/thirst for DC fans rage against Marvel. 2016 has made them so goddamn salty it's not funny.

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#75 Posted by deactivated-5a04a566e9ae3 (12864 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes because Black Widow.

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#76 Posted by SaintWildcard (21890 posts) - - Show Bio

Civil War was an Avengers movie. Lets be real here.

The best one too at that. This is a side thing, but I hate how Whedon wrote Cap. He really liked to hammer in that Cap was old and did a ton of cheesy humor with that. But the Russo's did it subtlety (like with the Kiss part).

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#77 Posted by Pokeysteve (12025 posts) - - Show Bio

Winter Soldier is easily better for me.

Civil War was not written all that well. Tony preaches law the whole movie and then basically has Scarlet Witch held hostage. The entire plot revolves around the people that got hurt and rarely mentions the people they saved in each of the instances discussed. They saved New York and probably the planet in Avengers. Cap saved millions and brought down massive corruption within probably the governments more premier agencies. Sokovia was 100% Tony's fault and his response to that is "my bad". This isn't the place to list all my problems about CW so this is only a few.

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#78 Posted by Doofasa (2229 posts) - - Show Bio

These were both terrific films so it's difficult to split them, but if I had to choose I'd lean towards The Winter Soldier as my favourite.

Personally I felt that the overall storyline was a little more fleshed out and there was more focus on the individual characters. Not to detract from Civil War though, they had far more characters to develop and succesfully did so to a degree where you empathise with their motivations on an individual level., plus I really enjoyed the motivations of the Villian that stepped away from the typecast of global domination/power.

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#79 Posted by cruelwinter (986 posts) - - Show Bio

There was not a single dull moment in Civil War. I enjoyed The Winter Soldier in theatres, but on consequent viewings, although it is entertaining, not consistently so.

Besides, Civil War has much more going for it. The scale is the bigger then ever, but the final act is the most personal.

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#80 Posted by Soaring (666 posts) - - Show Bio

By far

Not that civil war is bad by any means, but TWS was everything I'd hoped it would be and more after I saw Bucky fall off the train in TFA

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#81 Posted by Transformers1024 (7600 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: Because two lines of dialogue and him hanging with his old war buddies in two movies that lasted maybe 30 seconds in total is really throwing it hard in your face that Whedons makes fun of Caps age. Good logic.

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#82 Posted by kroczilla (1824 posts) - - Show Bio

TWS was better imo. Not only did civil war seem forced but it came too early and shouldnt have been a captain america movie in the first place (which clearly makes the captain the ptotagonist for a storyline which honestly should have none).

I m also gona call B.S. on the whole sovokia accord. The attack on new york and the eventsof winter soldiers were not in any way the fault of the avengers. Heck the freaking saved the day and kept casualties to the minimum. Hell, the govt sent a nuke to blow up new york which would have killed EVERYBODY. Yet it makes sense to blame the avengers for a relatively few casualties which is a goddamn reality of modern warfare (there are always casualties). Lets not forget that in the winter soldier there were no civilian deaths and they literally saved millions of people in the process along with stopping WORLD DOMINATION BY HYDRA.

As for sokovia, that was ENTIRELY TONY'S FAULT and again the avebgers saved most of the people there and saved the entire world.

What pissed me ff the most about "civil skirmish" was the fact that at the end of the day, the *war* wasnt really about the accords and also the presence of a vilian kinda undermined the entire civil war theme.

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#83 Posted by cruelwinter (986 posts) - - Show Bio

@kroczilla:

I m also gona call B.S. on the whole sovokia accord. The attack on new york and the eventsof winter soldiers were not in any way the fault of the avengers. Heck the freaking saved the day and kept casualties to the minimum. Hell, the govt sent a nuke to blow up new york which would have killed EVERYBODY. Yet it makes sense to blame the avengers for a relatively few casualties which is a goddamn reality of modern warfare (there are always casualties). Lets not forget that in the winter soldier there were no civilian deaths and they literally saved millions of people in the process along with stopping WORLD DOMINATION BY HYDRA.

Thunderbolt Ross says:

The world owes the Avengers

an unpayable debt.

You've... fought for us.

Protected us.

Risked your lives.

While a great many people

see you as heroes.

There are some...

would prefer the word "vigilantes. "

Ross acknowledges that the world owes the Avengers a debt for their service to the world, but they are growing dangerously powerful. If I existed in the same world as a Hulk, a Scarlett Witch and Vision: I would be scared.

The world needs The Avengers; you're right. Which is why they're not wanted out of the equation, only in service of the panel. Which, considering their immeasurable power, is reasonable. Even if you don't agree.

As for sokovia, that was ENTIRELY TONY'S FAULT

This is integral to Tony's motivation in the film:

They say, there's a correlation

between generosity and guilt.

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#84 Posted by gunmetalgrey (4803 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm on the fence, but I'm feeling like Civil War will end up like the first Avengers film.

A few years down the road, the novelty, spectacle, and hype would probably have died down and more of its flaws will begin to surface.

The fact that TWS is still able to compete a couple of years since release just shows its staying power.

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#85 Posted by cruelwinter (986 posts) - - Show Bio

@gunmetalgrey:

A few years down the road, the novelty, spectacle, and hype would probably have died down and more of its flaws will begin to surface.

If anything, Civil War will only get better years down the line. The fact that Civil War DIDN'T end with a "good guys team up to fight the bad guy" resolution is why the film will hold up so well. I expect Homecoming, Infinity War and Justice League to be very good, but I can bet my bottom dollar that all of these films will end with the heroes beating the bad guy. Civil War is a breath of fresh air and the ending itself should set it apart from "a couple of years."

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#86 Posted by gunmetalgrey (4803 posts) - - Show Bio

@cruelwinter: The fact that you know it'll all come to pass and that they'll all be buddy-buddy again once a bigger threat arrives makes the ending just seem pretentious. That's one disadvantage to this shared universe thing. In the end, a lot of powerful moments lose their weight because you know there's a status quo that must be maintained.

For this reason, as long as two MCU films' plots make sense it all comes down to cinematic merits for me when I compare them.

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#87 Edited by cruelwinter (986 posts) - - Show Bio

@gunmetalgrey:

The fact that you know it'll all come to pass and that they'll all be buddy-buddy again once a bigger threat arrives makes the ending just seem pretentious. That's one disadvantage to this shared universe thing. In the end, a lot of powerful moments lose their weight because you know there's a status quo that must be maintained.

For this reason, as long as two MCU films' plots make sense it all comes down to cinematic merits for me when I compare them.

This doesn't dispute my logic. Civil War is a refreshing superhero film. This is a character-driven drama, fueled by human characters: Iron Man is guilt ridden and barely anchored, Scarlett Witch is scared of herself, Zemo is sympathetic, T'Challa is consumed by revenge. And the ending is unpredictable.

This alone sets is apart from The Avengers, and IMO, any superhero down the line. The Avengers is a generic superhero film. Civil War is not poetry, but it is a well written, fairly mature drama. A testament to this is Captain America's exaggerated portrayal in Avengers, in contrast to his character in Civil War.

IMO, Civil War will hold up well because I can't predict we'll get such a tightly written ensemble film which made great use of every character, and a compelling ideological dilemma anytime sooner.

I also disagree with your assessment. The Empire Strikes Back is succeeded by Return of The Jedi, but that doesn't undermine it's stakes.

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#88 Posted by gunmetalgrey (4803 posts) - - Show Bio

@cruelwinter: Except "the good guys not coming together and beating the bad guy in the end" is not all there is to The Empire Strikes Back. It's not even a large part of what made it good. You pretty much already get that from the title. In contrast, I'm only reacting to you saying that Civil War's ending is "why it will hold up so well" and that "the ending itself should set it apart".

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#89 Edited by cruelwinter (986 posts) - - Show Bio

@gunmetalgrey said:

@cruelwinter: Except "the good guys not coming together and beating the bad guy in the end" is not all there is to The Empire Strikes Back. It's not even a large part of what made it good. You pretty much already get that from the title. In contrast, I'm only reacting to you saying that Civil War's ending is "why it will hold up so well" and that "the ending itself should set it apart".

Yeah, but stakes are there in Empire Strikes Back. It is succeeded by RoTJ, and the existence of a sequel which will inevitably result in a win for the good guys does not undermine Han Solo getting kidnapped, "I am your father" etc. It's the journey that matters the most, at least that's the way I see it. Especially with the Russo's clarifying this is stuff that can't be resolved off screen.

There is no reason to compare The Avengers and Civil War. There is no reason to assume Civil War won't hold up. Especially any less than The Winter Soldier.

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#90 Edited by gunmetalgrey (4803 posts) - - Show Bio

@cruelwinter: I'm not comparing the two films (Avengers and Civil War), I'm comparing people's reactions, perceptions, and opinions on it. TWS itself has dropped off, and yet opinions on it when compared to a film that just came out months ago are so divisive. So even if Civil War does hold up, it's already at or past its peak. I don't see it suddenly becoming definitively better than TWS any time in the future.

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#91 Posted by cruelwinter (986 posts) - - Show Bio

@cruelwinter: I'm not comparing the two films (Avengers and Civil War), I'm comparing people's reactions, perceptions, and opinions on it. TWS itself has dropped off, and yet opinions on it when compared to a film that just came out months ago are so divisive. So even if Civil War does hold up, it's already at or past its peak. I don't see it suddenly becoming definitively better than TWS any time in the future.

Good thing I already consider Civil War to be the better of the two, haha.

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#92 Posted by Full123 (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

I absolutely despise Civil Dispute, I don't particularly like The Winter Soldier, but I do like it more than CW.