Top 30 Most Powerful Sith Lords DRAFT

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El_mago

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@el_mago:

-I believe you're confusing precognition with force vision in this regard. Revan is confirmed to be greater than Luke in precognition as seen by the latter's duel with Darth Caedus.

-Fair point on Krayt.

-Do we really know the limitations of midichlorian manipulation?

-I'd be happy to put Vader above Tenebrous if other people are in agreement.

-Check the list for KFV, I put him in Tier 0 because having Vader twice distorts the ranking. But I will acknowledge in the final draft that had he been on the list, he certainly would be in the top 5.

-Forgot about Nyax tbh.

-I included the other Lost Tribe members because they all essentially perform the same feat as Taalon, which is dueling GM Luke, so they are for the most part a single entity in that regard.

1-my mistake then

2-even if that the case krayt is still very impressive all around

3-we only know by plagueis that using it on a combative aspect is tired and exhaustive to apply it

4-that would be great

5-well considering that their both the same character it whould certainly be on top 5

6-bro...

7-the ones that demonstrate far better showings against a gm luke were vol and taalon all the way...

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Necromancer76

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@el_mago:

-Which instance are you referring to regarding Plagueis?

-Two versions of the same character. Including multiple versions of each character would result in the list getting filled up with numerous versions of the same character. Revan alone has Mandalorian War Revan, Darth Revan, KOTOR Revan, Revan Reborn, Foundry Revan, SoR Revan, and Prime Revan. I gave KFV a shoutout via Tier 0 just because he's so different from suited Vader when it comes to their fighting styles and the like.

-I agree Vol and Taalon were the best. I'm just putting them all together to not clog the list with Lost Tribe characters who have only those feats. But it's still worth mentioning the other 3 for contending with GM Luke because that's an amazing feat on their part, even if Taalon and Vol did it better.

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El_mago

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#53  Edited By El_mago

let me find the quote of plagueis regarding this:

"Veruna gulped and found his voice. “How did you come by such power, Damask?” he asked in a whisper of genuine interest. “I was shown the way to power by a Bith named Rugess Nome.” “I know the name.” “Yes, but his true name was Darth Tenebrous, and he wore the mantle of the Dark Lord of the Sith. I was at one time his apprentice.” “Sith,” Veruna said, as if weakened by the very word. “Had you known, would you have allied with me?” Veruna marshaled the strength to shake his head. “Political power is one thing, but what you represent …” Plagueis made his lips a thin line. “I appreciate your honesty, Veruna. Are you beginning to tire of my presence?” “Not … of you,” Veruna said, with eyes half closed. “Let me explain what is happening to you,” Plagueis said. “The cells that make up all living things contain within them organelles known as midi-chlorians. They are, in addition to being the basis for life, the elements that enable beings like me to perceive and use the Force. As the result of a lifetime of study, I have learned how to manipulate midi-chlorians, and I have instructed the limited number you possess to return to their source. In plain Basic, Veruna, I am killing you.” Veruna’s face was losing color, and his breathing had slowed. “Bring … me back. I can still be … of service … to you …”".....

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i_like_swords

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#54  Edited By i_like_swords  Online

@el_mago:

krayt performed really well against the dark entity but even if that was the case he was getting his buttkicked and practically get one shotted by luke after he was trying to drain him

...uh, wat? All that happened was Luke kicked out Krayt's knee because he mistakenly believed Krayt to be betraying him by draining both Abeloth and Luke. A short time later, Luke realized that Krayt was not betraying him, but rather he was draining a small portion of energy from Luke because while he was draining Abeloth, instead of her energy empowering him, it was actually hurting him. Here are the quotes for context:

Then Luke felt an icy twinge between his shoulder blades. The twinge became a sting, and he began to feel something cold flowing down the center of his back. His first thought was Abeloth, that she had sunk a tentacle into his spine-until the lashing of her tentacles slowed and she began to shudder.

Luke did not understand until an eternity later, when the stranger rolled up on his feet and jerked them all to a halt. The Sith seemed to be growing stronger as Abeloth grew weaker, and there were wisps of dark fume swirling off his shoulders and head. It did not take a Jedi Grand Master to understand that Luke was being betrayed by a Force-draining technique.

Still holding Abeloth tight, Luke shifted his hips, rolling them both onto their sides, and kicked a foot through the stranger's knee. The joint buckled, and the Sith dropped onto the surface of the dark water, still on the opposite side of Abeloth from Luke.

"I'll release her!" Luke warned.

"Abeloth?" The stranger shook his head. "Never."

Despite the Sith's words, the cold stinging inside began to subside, and Luke realized the stranger was not pulling as hard. Abeloth continued to struggle, slipping a pair of tentacles around Luke's throat and trying to tear herself free. But she was growing weak faster than Luke.

So as you see above, Luke thinks Krayt is draining them both and benefiting from it, kicks out his knee, and then Krayt starts draining Luke less. And now for the second part where Luke realizes what is actually happening:

The draining seemed to continue for days; then the stranger threw back his head and screamed in anguish, and it suddenly seemed that only a breath had passed. Shiny black Force energy began to pour from the Sith's wounds into the lake, spreading outward around them in an oily slick so hot the water began to steam and hiss. Still, the stranger continued to drain Abeloth, and Luke realized that he was not being betrayed-the Sith was suffering as much damage from the attack as was Luke.

As you can see, rather than being empowered, Krayt is screaming in "anguish" because Abeloth's Force Essence is harming him: it pours back out of his body and causes the Lake's water to steam and hiss. Abeloth's Force eenrgy is compared to a black oil that boils Krayt from the inside and pours out of him. Luke notes that he isn't being betrayed, but that Krayt is actually suffering as much from performing the drain on Abeloth as Luke is suffering by lending him some energy to keep it going. And the final description of what was happening:

Abeloth lay tangled in Luke's arms, a writhing mass of Force energy that had suddenly gone limp a second or a day ago, only to explode an hour or a nanosecond later into a flailing tempest that had sent them all rolling and bouncing across the Lake of Apparition's dark waters. The stranger was tumbling with them, his hand still buried in Abeloth's chest, now wailing in agony as gleaming black Force energy steamed from his wounds.

And again, instead of being empowered, Abeloth's black, oily Force energy keeps steaming out of his wounds, causing him to wail in agony.

All quotes taken from Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse.

For my money, Krayt is definitely one of the top 5 most powerful characters in Star Wars barring celestial/godlike beings such as the Ones, Abeloth, etc.

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Golden_Knight

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#55  Edited By Golden_Knight

Cloaked66: About Ressurrection, Darth Maul was brought back specifically to kill Vader and replace him as Darth Sidious apprentice right? So was Maul prepared and/or powered up to duel Vader?

Ron Marz: Yes and Yes.

Cloaked66: Maul and the Prophets agreed that Vader had too much of the light in him, and yet, they were fighting in a Dark Side Nexus. Would that mean Maul was massively power boosted, by the prophets and the planet's Nexus, while Vader was actually weaker because of it?

Ron Marz: You're overthinking it a bit at this point. I'm glad you're engaged in the story, but ultimately it's just a story.

Cloaked66: And I understand that, but the thing is that it caused many controversies between fans, specially because many things in the EU that came after it changed the way of viewing that story completely, so I wanted to use your explanation to make things clearer.

Ron Marz: Not sure what came after it; I have no control over that, so it does not play any part in my story.

Cloaked66: But when talking about Ressurrection, plot-wise, was Vader nerfed by the circumstances or not?

Ron Marz: He won, so apparently not.

Cloaked66: Ron, I just have two last questions about Ressurrection for you, it seems that your answers created a pretty big tumult in the forum in which people were talking about that. May I ask them?

Ron Marz: Yes, but these are the last two, please.

Cloaked66: 1: If Vader attacked Maul with The Force to toss, shove or choke him would he just kill him like it was implied?

2: Did Maul held advantage on dueling because of his better mobility and preparation, meaning he exploited Vader's weakness?

Also sorry for being annoying

Ron Marz: 1) Hypothetical, so we really don't know.

2) Yes, Maul had better mobility, whereas Vader is like a tank.

Link conversation: https://twitter.com/LoCabbage/status/1227289825604227073

Lmao, I love how Marz is subtlety telling SW geeks to piss off. And I don't know why people are even trying to bug Marz into confirming that Vader was amped and Maul was weakened because you can pressure a lot of authors/writers on Twitter into saying a lot of stuff that inaverdently agrees with your view, and even in this conversation, Marz literally tells this SW fan to stop overthinking when asked if Vader was weakened/nerfed, and when he gets asked a second time, he says "He won, so apparently not" clearly disconfirming the notion of Vader being weakened, which is obvious because Vader literally says that his self hatred is what made him victorious in the comic itself, and when he gets asked a second time if Vader would've insta killed Maul if he resorted to Force use, he says that's "hypothetical, so we really don't know" clearly alluding that it's still speculation.

And if you're going to appeal to Ron Marz's tweets and be consistent about it, you would also concede that Maul was real in the physical sense because Marz confirmed it twice in 2018.

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El_mago

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Despite krayt being able to hold off that long the simple fact that his drain was hurting him and that abeloth is Essence was basically killing him is still worthy of mention without forgetting that Luke was doing all the job practically

Krayt is maybe top 10 not 5 tbh

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i_like_swords

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#57 i_like_swords  Online

@el_mago: There is no evidence that Luke was doing "all the job" - Abeloth can easily overpower Luke alone. Luke needed Krayt to keep draining Abeloth so that he could hold onto her, and visa versa.

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Golden_Knight

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#58  Edited By Golden_Knight

To add more to my post, it's also disengenious to try differentiating Resurrected Maul from TPM Maul. Resurrection was released in September 2001, 2 years after The Phantom Menace came out. Back then, lots of Star Wars fans, especially ones who liked the flashy lightsaber fights in The Phantom Menace, were obsessed with the idea of a Vader vs Maul battle because they're both cool and menacing, so they were eager to know how they compare and who would win had they fought. Resurrection was thus was published to satisfy these fans expectations:

"Vader vs Maul. The Brawl to settle it all!

64 amazing pages featuring Darth Vader and Darth Maul in a duel to the death!" -- Star Wars Tales Issue #9: Resurrection.

This is reinforced by the Dark Horse publisher:

"Ladies and Gentlemen! Boys and Girls! Droids and Jawas! Prepare yourselves for the battle of the century! In this corner, weighing in at 220 pounds, the terror from Tatooine, the Dark Lord of the Sith, the former Anakin Skywalker -- DARTH VADER! And in this corner, weighing in at 175 pounds, a killer of Jedi, the Naboo Annihilator, Darth Sidious' #1 apprentice -- DARTH MAUL! Make sure you're here on September 12th, 2001 for the answer to the question on everyone's lips: "Who's tougher? Vader or Maul?" Let the BATTLE begin!

Darth Maul had a screen time of approximately fifteen minutes in EPISODE I, but his fame is hardly over. Maul has, by far, been the character most requested by our readers to further explore. How to do it? Easy. Have him knuckle up against Darth Vader. Maul is vicious, physical, and primal. Vader is focused and calculating...but still has the faintest trace of humanity. Both have succumbed to the Dark Side of the force. Both are ambitious. But Sith law says there's only room for one."-- Dark Horse Publisher's Summary

Star Wars Insider echoes the same:

"It's an uphill battle whenever a storyteller has to live up to advance hype. And what could garner more hype than a knockdown, drag-out brawl between two of the baddest villains to ever menace movie audiences. Writer Ron Marz and illustrator Rick Leonardi deliver in this on-of-a-kind slugfest between the classic trilogy's Darth Vader and the prequels' death machine, Darth Maul."-- Star Wars Insider 83.

The ancient Star Wars website also echoed it:

"Star Wars Tales #9 sets out the answer the heated fan debate -- who's tougher: Darth Maul or Darth Vader? Sith doctrine clearly states that there can only be one survivor in this match." -- StarWars.com: September 2001 Comics.

Heck it's even alluded to in the comic itself:

Dark Side Prophets: Maul will prove himself by slaying you. The Emperor will be pleased. Of course, you could refuse the duel and attempt to destroy all of us here and now. You might even succeed. But such a deed would diminish you in the Emperor's eyes, would it not? And you would always wonder. Doubt would always nag at you.You could never be certain whether Darth Maul was your better... Unless you take up this challenge. So...

Source - Star Wars Tales #9: Resurrection.

Resurrection isn't canon anymore, that argument against the comic is valid. It's canonicity has been changed a lot over the years, it was originally non-continuity, but was included in-continuity later on... Then it got thrown out of continuity for unexplained reasons.

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El_mago

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#59  Edited By El_mago

yep krayt worked more of a distraction than actual fightning against the entity so even if the simple drain feat is impressive in a 1v1 krayt should get merked

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i_like_swords

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#60 i_like_swords  Online

@el_mago: But Abeloth wasn't distracted? I'm not sure where you got that from the fight.

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El_mago

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#61  Edited By El_mago

@i_like_swords: abeloth was also distracted but she was quite holding his own with the two force users with casual ease