Same as the last thread on this, no. BRB's never ever been to a Hulk VS Thor fight, his word is hardly a credible source, not compared to narration stating in the recap of each issue of this event that it's an all-out brawl between the two.
He’s on panel tried to kill Hulk multiple times, some of which he was completely out of control himself. At the end of the day Bill has no in universe reason for knowing the ins and outs of their fights.
I think a bigger point is that Thor does generally hold back his rage allot and has been doing so for centuries. So when you give him the power of Hulk which lets all of that anger out, it makes him pretty damn powerful.
Saying that, the ending sucked. Thor came off as better but no one really won definitively like we were promised. Specially when their powers were swapped and Banner never really intended to beat Thor by putting him down.
This might be the worst asspull/retcon in a comic to date. Cates needs to be fired because he clearly has no respect for pre-established canon. Yes Thor was definitely holding back all those times he fought hulk, even when he was in warrior madness and literally could just say “I’m gonna kill you”, or that time he said he didn’t care if banner died
Same as the last thread on this, no. BRB's never ever been to a Hulk VS Thor fight, his word is hardly a credible source, not compared to narration stating in the recap of each issue of this event that it's an all-out brawl between the two.
As Bill is narrating, Thor literally rips Hulk's arm off. Thor's rage is clearly leaps and bounds beyond Hulk's - get over it.
In the first fight you mention he says that because without respite or quarter given, Thor overpowers the Hulk immediately before your crop - and immediately after your crop, Hulk flees after being toppled by rocks caused by Thor exerting too much force on their battleground. Then Hulk sneaks up on Thor and with Namor's help, still fails to overcome him. That whole fight is defined by Thor being humble and noble, giving up Mjolnir so he can fight Hulk fairly in hand to hand combat. BRB is right!
In the second fight you mention Hulk threatens to kill an innocent woman to stop Thor from using Mjolnir, and runs away when Mjolnir returns to Thor's hand, confirming he's scared of the God of Thunder.
In the third fight you mention he actually beats the Hulk twice, once by BFR and once by knockout
I've caught you trying to use Death of the Author on Cates's twitter statements that went against your Hulk > Thor meta right before Banner of War came out (saying Thor not being of Earth, posting MCU Thor's "Is He Tho" reaction to one of your people saying Hulk is stronger than Thor) and I've also caught you using scans of Hulk being said the strongest one on Earth quite expeditiously,
and now you're using scans from almost 80 years ago to try and say BRB is an unreliable narrator. But we all know you love using unreliable narrators as long as they support Hulk! You yourself told me this evidence was bullshit!
Not only is this contradicted by half a dozen times where Thor literally states the opposite by trying to kill the Hulk, there is nothing saying Hulk doesn't hold back either, in fact in this specific fight he was holding back since he only goes to level 8 of anger while he has level 9 and 10 more to go. Also Cates doesn't have the power to undo what other writers did in the past unfortunately, if a writer had Thor go all out, you can't really retcon that not being true. Especially since Cates himself doesn't even know all the fights, he is completely unaware of the most famous Hulk vs Thor fight that happened in Thor 385 that was written by Stan Lee, even though he was preparing to write a Hulk vs Thor showdown at that point
On top of that, you still can't hold back your durability, so Thor can "hold back" all he wants, he is still gonna get his skull cracked if he doesn't take the fight serious.
This isn't even going into the fact that Thor had the OF in Banner of War while fighting Savage Hulk lol.
@takenstew22 Thor holds back his raw power, but he also holds back his exotic power. Cates addressed both of these in the last issue of Banner of War, and I've outlined almost every instance of how Thor holds back in the latter department.
@underfire47: lmao, I wonder how Thor fans feel knowing OF Thor needed a gamma boost and hulk rage powers from a titan possession to beat a banner- controlled rage limited Hulk? It was pretty clear OF Thor would’ve been manhandled if banner hadn’t stepped in
@takenstew22 Thor holds back his raw power, but he also holds back his exotic power. Cates addressed both of these in the last issue of Banner of War, and I've outlined almost every instance of how Thor holds back in the latter department.
Does that also mean Hulk with Mljonir also held back his exotic powers? Because he did nothing other than use Mljonir as a regular hammer, until the very end when Odin took over his body and drained Thor of gamma.
As Bill is narrating, Thor literally rips Hulk's arm off
So? Thor's amped by both Gamma and the Odin-Force. It'd be embarrassing if he didn't. What's especially interesting is how Starship Hulk with Thor's powers did worse than Savage Hulk did.
In the first fight you mention he says that because without respite or quarter given, Thor overpowers the Hulk
No he doesn't, but this isn't even about Hulk's superiority to Thor, it's about whether Thor has always held back against Hulk, which is clearly not the case.
Hulk flees after being toppled by rocks caused by Thor exerting too much force on their battleground.
Rocks which Hulk no-sold, but there was no reason for Hulk to continue the fight and not go back to help Namor.
Then Hulk sneaks up on Thor and with Namor's help, still fails to overcome him.
Because he was trying to lift Thor's hammer, which is enchanted
That whole fight is defined by Thor being humble and noble, giving up Mjolnir so he can fight Hulk fairly in hand to hand combat.
*Prideful, wanting to prove to himself he was superior to Hulk even without Mjolnir, which was obviously not the case.
BRB is right!
Can't forget about fights where Thor didn't even know who Hulk was either, like when Leader mindwiped Thor and he thought Hulk was a demon conjured by Loki and then suckered Hulk with Mjolnir, which he shrugged off and then matched him in grappling.
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This is Intelligent Hulk btw, far weaker than Savage
So once again, BRB is an unreliable narrator in this case due to never having been at Hulk VS Thor fight, and his word is blatantly contradicted by fights where Thor or the narration said he wasn't holding back, or fights where Thor was brainwashed and didn't even know who Hulk was (since BRB is claiming Thor holds back against Hulk due to their relationship).
In the second fight you mention Hulk threatens to kill an innocent woman to stop Thor from using Mjolnir, and runs away when Mjolnir returns to Thor's hand, confirming he's scared of the God of Thunder.
While this is an extremely disingenuous misinterpretation (Hulk left because he didn't care) it's not the point of the argument. The point is that BRB's statement is blatantly contradicted.
However, since you want to go on tangents, I'll do the same. You can be scared of a spider but it doesn't mean it's superior to you, and Hulk has demonstrated time and time again his superiority to Mjolnir.
Like Thor and Intelligent Hulk's respective performances against Ultron in Secret Wars, where Ultron no-sold a hammer throw and lightning from Thor while Intelligent Hulk staggered and damaged Ultron with a punch.
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Or Hulk knocking out Grandmaster's Hyperion, who in the same issue was shown stomping Thor in a flashback and mentioned he had withstood Thor's hammer.
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Or Sunshine Fixit tanking several Mjolnir strikes from bloodlusted OF Thor but oozing blood from Savage Hulk's hits 4 issues later.
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Or Vision being unphased by Thor's Mjolnir strike while the page after Hulk knocked him down and tore his leg off.
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Or Intelligent Hulk jumping clean through a ship that Thor's strikes were only minorly chipping
Calm Hulk also stopped a hammerstrike from the real Thor.
In the third fight you mention he actually beats the Hulk twice, once by BFR and once by knockout
Once again, ignoring how Thor only briefly KOed Hulk by suckering him with lightning (which has one-shot himself on multiple occasions), the point is that Thor wasn't holding back in this fight, meaning BRB's statement is blatantly false.
and now you're using scans from almost 80 years ago to try and say BRB is an unreliable narrator.
Each of those statements have credibility due to the person knowing the power of Hulk and Thor well, BRB doesn't.
But we all know you love using unreliable narrators as long as they support Hulk! You yourself told me this evidence was bullshit!
Instead of pointless rambling like usual, explain why this is an unreliable narrator.
@karkus: Outside of all the examples you've given already, there's also Immortal Hulk #47 where Thor was obviously going for the kill on Hulk (and had no reason not to, because the Avengers all thought he could just revive himself and had already 'killed' him in the same series). This time because Hulk's anger was seemingly infecting everyone and making them rage out...
Dude is literally acting like Hulk is the worst thing since Hitler here
Same thing happened in issue #49 as well where they all just started beating on Joe for no reason.
Also, Savage Hulk did way better than Worthy Hulk/Banner did...
This was a result of Hulk punting him away
Banner didn't ask Odin to help because he needed a power boost, he just couldn't risk fighting Thor straight up because it would bring Titan out.
Not only is this not a retcon because literally in this same series it’s said multiple times Thor’s going all out and Thor tries to kill Hulk, but by the same stroke of logic Hulk holds back too considering banner says that since hulk isn’t in a simulation he’s not gonna hold back anymore and is going to kill thor and stark. BRB is obviously an unreliable narrator, and any of the various thor vs hulk fights where thor is either insane or very very explicitly says he will kill hulk including this one very clearly paint this statement as ridiculous.
It isn’t so far fetched. Wasn’t Thor created basically to check the Hulk? Didn’t Stan Lee said “what could be more powerful than a Hulk? How about a God”.
Really? If was intention of the writer make that statement, who better than Bill? See Thor has this bigger than life heart where you can actually debate who is his best friend, is it Steve, Hercules, Balder or Volstagg? But yeah its probably Bill, and the defining factor for that result, is the fact that only Bill knows and understands what is like to carry every day a power similar to Thor, Bill knows better than any other mortal about Thor/Asgard...
Thor had and used the Odin-Force in this battle?
Really? Its currently an ongoing plot point, where we can actually speculate that power was transferred to the Hammer/Odin, but even if wasn't, when Cates hulked Thor his intention was clearly prevent that in the battle escalation, there was no speculation of why Thor didn't recurred to the mentioned power, you (obviously) all know that even Odin, sometimes could not access to the Odin-Force, so hulked Thor had 0% chance of getting access to that power. (If don't really know much about the Odin-force you can read the AMAZING Michael Avon Oeming end of Thor vol 2).
Hulk also holds back?
Well obviously there will be inconsistencies canon wise, but if the character is based on Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, something must failed on its development, if that is actually the case, plus there are moments where it is stated that Hulk never holds back , written by some random writer that didn't define hulk in any moment, Greg Pak.
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