The true purpose of Marvel´s Generations

So, I think that anyone who has read the three one-shots of Generations so far now what this is truly about, it´s not about celebrating the past while embracing the future, it´s about showcasing how the past is inferior to the present and future, how the past characters are nothing but a shadow of the new SJW and PC characters.

First we have the Hulks, we saw it with Cho Hulk and Banner Hulk, Cho was getting the better of the real Hulk on a fight and was the character driving the narrative when it should have been Banner instead, no ones gives a crap about how Cho feels, we want to see Bruce, the character we have been loving and reading for years.

Then the Phoenix/Jean Grey, we saw how when young Jean met adult Jean, the former said she was nowhere near close the legend everyone thought she was, that she was just a scared woman like her young self, that she ain´t better than the young version, the story wasn´t bad, Cullen Bunn is a great writer, but this was clearly to show that the adult Jean isn´t better than the young version we have now.

Finally, we have the Wolverines, a story I was very much looking forward, and while the story itself wasn´t bad, it´s sole purpose was to showcase Laura´s superiority to Logan, and this was the most painfully obvious and on the nose approach out of the three stories we´ve gotten, see for yourself.

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They rub her supposed "superiority" right on our noses. Another thing worth mentioning is that at the end of the story Laura calls Logan "dad" which is just wrong, Marvel really needs to stop trying to make the comic books align with the movies, it should be the other way around.

That is it for now, I will be updating as new "Generations" one-shots come out, so expect to read more about how the new characters are suprior to the ones we know and love. I had faith in Marvel and that they wanted to do right by their fans with "Legacy", but this gives me zero hope that they´ll deliver, this is just another cash grab.

@krleavenger: @uugieboogie: @thorthunder98: @thedailybagel: @lvenger: @asgardianbrony: @thebestofthebest: @k4tzm4n: @noone1996: @pipxeroth: @supremegeneration:

Yea I don't know when marvel will go back to normal but I don't see it being anytime soon which is annoying.

@thor_parker82:

The true purpose of Marvel´s Generations

@thor_parker82: To be fair. Logan was a beserker.

I'm guessing this time period was somewhere not far off from his Patch days.

Dude was a monster and not as technical as he could have been.

I also saw it as Logan being caught off guard by someone just like him coming outta nowhere.

Especially if he caught her scent.

As for her being his daughter? She technically is. She isn't a complete clone, she is the mixture of two and was raised naturally (as natural as a clone birth can be. Think Bobba Fett).

And I mean she pretty much is his kid. She and Daken having the sibling vibe going since Wolverines.

And with the Hulk thing. Amedeus straight up tries to deescalate the situation before Bruce got angrier.

Maybe I'm wrong here. But I took it as trying to get the past to appreciate the future.

It would sound like preaching if Logan constantly pointed out what Laura did wrong.

She was supposed give off the vibe of a "Mind @#$&" because up until recently, Logan probably hadn't met anyone but Creed as similar to him than Laura was at that instant.

But, this is my humble opinion on these books.

I lost faith in Marvel a long time ago. I don't care anymore. I'm just rereading older stuff. This is good tho. It made me read more DC comics, like older Superman stuff with Jurgens or Marz's Kyle Rayner series. Believing in people is stupid overall. And I'm not saying that because I'm angry. All I'm saying is, if you believe in others you will only feel disappointed. I'm saying that based on personal experience, and Marvel gave me no reason to believe that they could make something cool. Their last good comic was Doom's Secret Wars, written by Hickman.

@thor_parker82: i feel like this is kind of unfair towards the books themselves. by no means do I prefer the new to the old (I want my Banner back), but if you can ignore the fact that the writers have to work with the horrible "vanishing point" unexplained plot hole stupidity, they all end up being pretty good.

while you are right, if you only read the beginning of the generations hulk story, cho would have seemed superior as a hulk (although they did only fight to a stalemate, which powerwise makes sense), at the end of it, cho was exposed as a bit of a whiny blxrch, while banner schooled him, so that in itself changes the character completely, that a role model could put him down in such a way.

the phoenix one was the most pander-y. while i can get the fact that jean can be insecure, if the point is that young jean is learning something from her, then not that insecure. the phoenix also didn't seem as all-powerful as it should, and to be honest, galactus shouldn't even feet what young jean did, let alone respect it. while the story ends with the phoenix looking pretty good, there was a lot of pandering, and i din't really know who was learning from who.

the wolverine issue is possibly the best of the 3. while laura isn't learning as much as cho did, the story is masterfully narrated, some plot points are hit solidly, and if you can ignore the entire laura saving logan bull and suddenly knowing exactly where she is, it makes sense power level-wise.

anyway, the stories, despite the layout they have to work with, deserve some flak, but they're honestly decent stories.

Although I'm still gonna read Daredevil and Captain America titles.

What Krle said.

Seriously, My Hero Academy is amazing! Marvel just looks like a waste of time in comparison. I was ready to board the Marvel train after Secret Wars, but lack of money stopped me. It was a good thing in retrospect.

@all-father: Thanks... I guess...

Honestly, both of these posts reflect my thoughts. Just from the pages the OP posted, I'm really not seeing anything to get mad about.

With no disrespect intended, a lot of the hate I'm seeing for Generations makes me feel that people just want to hate the stories (understandable, as Marvel has been screwing the characters a lot lately) and are pointing out every possible criticism they can find to justify hating it.

@thor_parker82: You don't seem like one of those haters who hate the new characters (or even the whole Marvel´s Generations event). You came expecting generations to be "about celebrating the past while embracing the future"but you weren't completely right. The point of Marvel´s Generations wasn't to promote how cool the new SJW and PC characters are (okay, maybe a little). Each one shot was to showcase what the new characters needed.

Like Cho Hulk and Banner Hulk one shot was to show Cho that the Hulk wasn't something you can contain and eventually the monster will take control. If you read Cho's series, you'll noticed that its something that's been building and this one shot was on point.

The second one was basically what you said, young Jean has been struggling with the image of her older self, that has been a recurring theme for her. So seeing her older self and realizing that she wasn't perfect made sense.

Truly disappointing. I'm sure Iron Man's one-shot is going to have some "women are better" type of message to it.

@asgardianbrony: It's set in a world where 80% of the population has some sort of super power. It follows a group of high school students training to become heros. There's a lot of drama and epic moments, and so far I've really enjoyed what I've seen. I'm about half way through season 2 on Crunchyroll. Here's a good scene from the show that I like.

@thegamemanuel: and what did Laura learn.? Nothing she was perfect, better in every way than Logan. I like Laura as a character. A lot. But I was waiting 3 years for Logan to come back and all I got was yeah look Laura is better and smarter than he is. Buulshit to marvel. Loved the ending though. He is a flawed character and needed to learn to be there for those he's caring for. But Taylor downgraded him for Laura, which was absolute garbage. Honestly what kind of hack of a writer does that to a character after they've been absent for so long, it is a giant middle finger to wolverine fans. They could have both been great but no that hack of a writer had to write Logan inner monologuing about how Laura is better.

We don't always agree but soo much this!

@aros001: Logan blatantly admits Laura is better than him in those scans, which is bullshit. Then she dominates and takes the lead for the entirety of the issue and teaches HIM something. So basically Laura is perfect and doesn't need to take anything away or learn from Logan because she's already so great. Logan's only appearance in three years and Taylor that $$&@& wrote him as a sidekick. I was rrrrreeeaaallyy looking forward to this. Should have known.

Agreed. I'm done wasting money on a company who no longer cares about its fans.

@jameswayne: I can't answer that, I haven't read it yet. I know their are scans up, but I like to refrain from looking at them. I'll get back to you once i'll read it.

@thegamemanuel: please do. The interactions were great. But the Laura pandering throughout the issue was atrocious. And like I said I love both these characters, Logan's my fave, but Laura is great too. I knew Taylor was going no to do this. He stated he wanted to show them as equals....but he went way too far. You'll know the scene when you see it, and if you think differently, please, I'm open, cause I did love aspects about the book, and would be happy to have hope for a Taylor hemmed Logan return, if and when it happens.

I disagree with this premise. In professional wrestling terms, whats happening here is old established talent putting new talent over. Not because the new talent is viewed as "superior" to the "inferior" established stars. I mean geez, Greg Pak wrote the Hulk issue, the intent, is probably more along the lines of readers knowing the older characters, and then trying to get them to see their are more characters they might also like and appreciate, because they are similar… but also different to the classics.

Now… if you want to argue execution, like whether this is the best way to get new talent over, sure, I'll definitely understand that criticism and complaint. In wrestling, you could say some of these comics are the equivalent of Roman Reigns… you'll just build resentment and annoyance from fans, the intent of the writers, regardless is rejected by the fans, thats fine. However that complaint could also be localized to a small niche minority of fans and not all fans. All alternatively a large portion of fans, just to be clear, aren't trying to undermines anyone unhappiness with current Marvel, I barely read any Marvel or DC lately, mostly apathy/lack of time.

Also this complaint happens frequently from many fans, no matter how passionate, because its rare that comic fans start reading comics at 5 and continue through to 90. Comic fans cycle out, some faster than others. For every comic book, writer, characters etc there are former comic fans out there who think the comics you think are great, are trash, that existed to excrete all over their own favorites/ideas for the sake of something forced, inorganic, unnecessary and silly. I mean everyone knows Marvel went downhill after the original Contest of Champions in the 70's/80's, forcing heroes to interact with each other, sacrificing story quality for dumb interactions just to pander to the kids back then, who were easily impressed by fluff… back in my day Captain America would team up with Iron Man once every decade and it was special and there were no punk mutant X-Men trash characters and…

I'm sorry but I genuinely think you're overreacting a bit. In those scans, all Logan says is that she's faster than him and that she fights in a very composed manner, both of which are things that make sense. Logan is physically stronger but he has more metal in his body that weighs him down, and as for fighting more composed, both Logan and Laura are berserkers but it's because of LOGAN'S help throughout the years and her own adventures that she's able to control herself better while fighting than this Logan of the PAST can.

This is the same reason I'm confused about why people are mad about Amadeus holding his own against the past Hulk. That Hulk, just like this Logan, are not yet as powerful or skilled as we know they someday become and Laura and Amadeus learned directly from them in the future where they are more at their peak. No duh the characters from the future have an advantage! That's like getting mad at a story where Nightwing or Robin or Batman Beyond travel back in time and are able to hold their own against or even beat Batman during his first year on the job.

You're right, Laura isn't prefect, but she is who she is because of all she's ALREADY learned from Logan.

@guardiandevil83:

To be fair. Logan was a beserker.

I'm guessing this time period was somewhere not far off from his Patch days.

Dude was a monster and not as technical as he could have been.

Yeah, maybe, but the execution is still very annoying.

I also saw it as Logan being caught off guard by someone just like him coming outta nowhere.

Especially if he caught her scent.

That wasn´t shown though, he literally stated that Laura was better than him, the narration could have simply said that Logan was impressed, but no, they had him explicitly say she is better.

As for her being his daughter? She technically is. She isn't a complete clone, she is the mixture of two and was raised naturally (as natural as a clone birth can be. Think Bobba Fett).

And I mean she pretty much is his kid. She and Daken having the sibling vibe going since Wolverines.

I know, but I don´t recall Laura ever referring and/or calling Logan "dad", and this just seems convenient considering the movie we just had.

Maybe I'm wrong here. But I took it as trying to get the past to appreciate the future.

I really don´t see how it establishes that, but I respect your views.

It would sound like preaching if Logan constantly pointed out what Laura did wrong.

He doesn´t need to point out what Laura did wrong, the narration could have just focused on the story at hand, but the writer went out of his way to point out that Laura is better.

She was supposed give off the vibe of a "Mind @#$&" because up until recently, Logan probably hadn't met anyone but Creed as similar to him than Laura was at that instant.

But, this is my humble opinion on these books.

I see, and this is what forums are for, to exchange ideas, even though I don´t agree with yours, I respect them.

Maybe I gave the wrong idea in the OP, I had just literally finished reading the Wolverine one-shot and I was angry, the stories haven´t been bad, in fact, they have been quite good, however, it´s impossible for me to ignore the constant mentions of how the new characters are superior/better than the ones we know and love when this was supposed to "celebrate" the past, and it sure as hell doesn´t feel like a celebration.

I guess that if you look at it that way then it´s not as bad, but still, the constant reminder and mentions that the characters we know and love are inferior to the new ones is just disrespecting the fanbase of said characters, and that wasn´t supposed to be the point of these one-shots, quite the contrary.

Marvel really needs to stop trying to make the comic books align with the movies, it should be the other way around.

This statement confused me. Isn't replacing all the classic characters with new ones the opposite of making the comics align with the movies?

@thor_parker82: honestly, you're right. it's not a horrible story, but it's good. telling us that one character is blatantly better than the other is bad, i agree, but it usually makes sense if you read the whole thing (young jean was really just talking about jean, not the phoenix, and plenty of people have said why the wolverine thing makes sense, and I continue to point out that it was all good for cho until the end, where banner teaches him some manners), so yeah I feel like it deserves some flak, not all the flak they're getting.

NEXT week's book, on the other hand.....

(at least spencer and bendis can write a good story featuring their characters)

@aros001: I would agree with you if that is all he said. He also said that the ninjas couldn't touch her when they were going to kill him and that he used to be the best there is at what he does, directly implying she's better. Honestly, if you have an explanation for that, I'm all ears because I loved the character interaction and actually agree with Laura scolding him at the end. He's a terrible father. But he's always from the beginning been more skilled technically than her, he's not just a besererker. It's Taylor's nonsense that looks at him that way. He's one of the best h2h in marvel, above her.

Well, i am gonna make some excuses here, but anyways, in Jean Grey's case, the Phoenix Jean we saw was still new and inexperienced with Phoenix, she didn't know that much about its power, possibilities, its "curse", and such, she is basically a freshman who opened Pandora's Box and doesn't know what would happen, so what i am trying to say here, is that in essence it was not the experienced Jean Grey we know, who has passed through all that heavy stuff, so in that case the incident somewhat makes sense.

In Laura's case, i think it was overreacted, as other explained above, Laura was always faster (no adamantium to weight her down) and such, with actually make sense given her character history, the story was narratated very good and the points hit solidly enough IMO, as for the "dad" moment, not the first time, even before the movies, she saw Logan as her "father".

Flashy sound with a pretty notable cash grab potential?

@lord_spectrum: What feats does Laura have to prove she is faster than Logan?

She doesn't have that much adamantium in her to slow her down, unlike Logan, that's basic logic, bro. :D

Plus, in their fight against each other Laura seemed the faster of the 2, i mean she landed more strikes than Logan did, and it strongly seemed that speed was her advantage in their fight.

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Then there are other feats as well, though i don't have that much, but still decent enough i guess, but anyways....

Fast enough to see bullets and recognize what type they are, as well as moves fast enough appear blurry.

Saves Magik from Belasco, while moving at BLUR speeds.

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Faster than Marvel Girl/Rachel Grey's thoughts (the scan even says that her thoughts and actions happen at the same time, unlike regular humans, which takes time to process all that).

Kills an entire family before camera's flash goes off.

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Well, that's all i have, i think she is faster than Logan, but difference in speed isn't that big.

She also outperformed Logan in speed against killing a Cyborg Bear according to people who work on Weapon X.

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Ugh the Generations Wolverine scans look like the worst Generations one shot yet. As I suspected Generations has turned out to be nothing more than the original heroes worshipping the ground that the legacy heroes tread on. And my problem isn't Laura beating Logan or being shown as superior to him, it's the way it's done. When X-23 first fought Logan, she bled him out using dirt to stop his healing factor from recovering from the damage she inflicted on him. That was a smart strategy that didn't make Logan look like a chump compared to Laura. Here, Logan is just fawning at how much better she is than him at killing Hand ninjas which makes for bad fan fic levels of writing.

The purpose of Generations is to validate and glorify the legacies over the classics, the infinitely superior and legendary classics.

I kinda saw this comming from the moment it was announced.

X-23 calling wolverine her dad was probably not meant to be literal. As for X-23 being more skilled than wolverine; wolverines skill fluctuates through time. And the wolverine of 80's was pretty far cry to what he is now. If we limit wolverine to his showings from the 80's he might not be better than X-23. Comics in general have gone through a power creep since the 80's and wolverine has power creeped more than most.

As for the Jean story I disagree. IIRC young Jean stated that old Jean was on another level and she was in awe when old Jean took her on a trip through space. The point of Jean saying old Jean was scared is that they are the same.....In terms of strength of character. So even though old Jean is this legend, she still had moments of doubts.

I think people are overreacting or looking for reasons to get angry. Which is normal in the comic fandom. Also about X-23 being faster than wolverine, you have to keep in mind writers don't look at battle forum feats the way fans do. X-23 doesn't have an adamantium skeleton so I get the logic why wolverine is stronger and Lura is faster. Whether or not it is true can be disputed in the battle forums. If Lura is faster its in no way significant by feats.

Maybe my opinion would change after reading the entirety of Generations but again, I don't think Laura being better in some fighting aspects as Logan is a bad or unreasonable thing. She is from the future. She knew him and learned from him when he was at his peak. Obviously Logan's been around for several years and so this isn't his starting point like it was with Hulk, but this is still not Logan as skilled or as powerful as we know he becomes someday.

I don't see any disrespect in Laura, who comes from far into Logan's future and spent years learning from his example, being a slightly better fighter than this past Logan who has never met her before and as not yet experienced a lot of the stuff that molded his character as Wolverine throughout the years.

Again, I use this example: If Nightwing, the first Robin, was sent back in time and encountered a younger Batman during the first year or two of his career, Nightwing WOULD be better than that past Batman. He learned from Bruce at his peak, he knows what he can do, and like with Laura, he's had several years learning from that mentor and pushing himself to try and be as his mentor is during that time. Despite Marvel and DC trying to stagnate their characters, characters DO get better and stronger overtime. So Laura being better than this past Logan whom is not yet as grown and skilled as we know he becomes doesn't mean anything!

Also, you said "He also said that the ninjas couldn't touch her when they were going to kill him and that he used to be the best there is at what he does, directly implying she's better." If Laura is faster, then of course the ninjas can't touch her as easily as they can the much heavier Wolverine. And as for he used to be the best, again, Laura is from the FUTURE. I genuinely believe that if you put the Logan from Laura's timeline (before he lost his healing factor) up against this past Logan, he would stomp this past Logan into the ground, because Logan got BETTER over time and Laura learned and modeled herself after that BETTER Logan. Not every character starts off at 100% of how great and skilled they're going to be someday.

Get off my lawn Marvel!!!!

@lvenger: I know that fight, Logan wasn't really going all out. I like Laura as a character but she doesn't have the history of feats for a writer to have her win over logan. He can tank more, he's stronger and more technically skilled she s faster and more agile.

Unless you meant it showed her superior to him In certain aspects, not overall then that's fair. She uses strategy more than him for sure, Logan could and has, but relies in healing typically. Sorry if this sounded aggressive, ive been waiting a long time for og Logan and got this

@lord_spectrum: okay yeah she's faster. Why does that make her able to handle things he can't when he's more durable and skilled and stronger? Taylor could have left it at faster but had Logan admit she s just better after being dead for 3 years. He kills that out of nowhere cause nothing supports that statement. Laura's good, she's not on Logan level. The skeleton alone gives her an advantage. In this issue the og character blatantly admits to being inferior and then acts like a sidekick, how is the reaction overdone. Taylor used this as an excuse to prop laura. Which is absolute bullshit to someone like me who was waiting to read original Logan again. Just cause Laura is not as shoehorned as other new characters doesn't mean it's okay to have writers disrespect original characters for her.

And again in rereading this and realizing I may be coming across as aggressive. I admit She s faster for sure, overall one on one i think he takes it but can acknowlwdge her superiority in certain aspects. It's just that last line of i was the BEST that bothers me most. Realistically theybcouldnt touch her but they couldn't hurt him either, it was just thebwater that was the issue. Again sorry if aggressive.

Boi am I glad I'm spending my money on DC.

Ya know, sometime Marvel has to see that they DON'T do this with their films and it works. I almost feel like the films are truer to the comics than the comics, if that's possible. I may not be the best to speak, as my Marvel pulls have gone from 10 to 2. I'll rad Cap...if the Mark Waid rumor is true. I'll pick up Johnny Storm and The Thing to get my FF fix, though I'm not real confident that'll last beyond my trial basis (usually 6 issues). I'm sure they still have good books I'm not reading (And Daredevil, one the 2 I do read, is a solid book.) I'm not reading Secret Empire or Generations, thanks mostly to the feed back those books are getting on sites like this.

@jameswayne:

okay yeah she's faster.

Well, we can agree on that one. ^_^

Why does that make her able to handle things he can't when he's more durable and skilled and stronger?

I didn't argue about that, nor i am gonna do it, since Laura's overall potrayal in comics doesn't showcase her such, and in the Generations comic, Logan states that he is stronger than her, as for the skill part, Logan didn't state that she is more skilled, what he said is that she is faster (that's why ninjas couldn't land blows on her) and gracefull fighter and that's it, no statement of her being more skilled.

Taylor could have left it at faster but had Logan admit she s just better after being dead for 3 years.

I don't rememmber him stating that Laura is better fighter than him.

He kills that out of nowhere cause nothing supports that statement. Laura's good, she's not on Logan level.

True, she is not his level.

The skeleton alone gives her an advantage.

Laura doesn't have adamntium skeleton, only adamantium claws, that's why she is faster than Logan and heals faster as well, because no adamantium to weight her down and no adamntium poisoning.

In this issue the og character blatantly admits to being inferior and then acts like a sidekick, how is the reaction overdone.

I agree on the side kick part that was too much, disagree on blatantly admitting of being inferior, his only statement of inferiority was of speed and that's it.

Taylor used this as an excuse to prop laura.

I doubt so.

Which is absolute bullshit to someone like me who was waiting to read original Logan again.

Well, i can agree on certain points.

Just cause Laura is not as shoehorned as other new characters doesn't mean it's okay to have writers disrespect original characters for her.

Well Generations is pretty doing a blatant disrespecting with that SJW crap, but in this case, there was not that much of it, i think you are just overreacting, my friend.

And again in rereading this and realizing I may be coming across as aggressive.

No problem with that. ^_^

I admit She s faster for sure,

Yep, and that's it, she has no other advantage except healing against Logan.

overall one on one i think he takes it

Yep.

but can acknowlwdge her superiority in certain aspects.

The only superiorities she has is speed (which is no that above) and a bit better healing, according to Logan (Pre-Generations).

It's just that last line of i was the BEST that bothers me most.

Ahh....i see, he is still best don't worry about that one. XD

Realistically theybcouldnt touch her but they couldn't hurt him either, it was just thebwater that was the issue.

Okay.

Again sorry if aggressive.

Again, no problem with that. :)

Option A: Wolverine - "Look at this dumb broad, two claws? What a klutz, she's getting destroyed by those ninja, I better pull out my giant manhood and slap those ninja silly, cause I am always the best, wait she's my clone? But she sucks, I am so much better than her, I am so good, that even if I was hypothetically a fictional character, the people reading my stories, need to be constantly reminded of this, because anything less would be suggesting I am worthless as a character"

Option B: Wolverine - "Hey, I am a badass, but sometimes I struggle, and now this random stranger that seems closely related and thematically similar to me, is tearing shot up too, I am impressed and somehow also strangely proud, almost as if I were a fictional character and people were reading about me bonding with another fictional character."

Option C: Healthy mix of above two options. I get that some people want a better balance here, better writing to convey intent, but sincerely, I think if anyone reads into this story and think it conveys Wolverine is "definitely inferior and lacking", that they are misinterpreting the story in a massive way. You might be approaching the comic from too much of a Battles and feats lens, which is fine, but you'll miss the more traditional and nuance story telling methods at play. Wolverine can be cocky and arrogant at times, but also humble, disciplined and wise, characters complimenting others often intents to show heroism, not weakness. Parents often want their offspring to be stronger, faster, wiser, more successful than them, some parents get bitter and resentful and develop complexes instead. Wolverine is going to go down as one of the greatest pop culture icons of the 20th century, on a level with few peers, one of the most prolific, popular and profitable individual and team characters, who is so beloved that covers that feature him, as a cameo will spike comic sales for that series. This will be the mindset of many writers, and they will assume people know Wolverine is a badass and competent and not have the need to emphasize this as often. In about twenty years, if X-23 is still around, she'll be used too, for new characters of that generation in a similar way. Other older comic characters than Wolverine have been used in the past to make Wolverine seem impressive. Its creative writing, not scientists trying to write a biological report on where Wolverine "should be" feats wise.

@sc: I get that, but the blatant I used to be the best there is line is what really bothers me. Honestly, and correct me if you think I'm wrong, I don't think Taylor intended for Laura to be superior or meant to say that she is overall better than Logan, he wanted two equals fighting and just propped up his character a bit too much. Without that line, things have a different context. I don't like how he was a sidekick throughout the issue, but whatever there