I feel like the meaning of AP changed over the last 5-6 years. It used to be that if a character was able to hurt someone who survived moon busting attacks, we would conclude this character has moon busting AP, even if he had no moon busting feats.
Now I don't know what people talk about anymore when they mention AP.
@morghulis: Cringe isn't having so called "controversial" opinions, although I am unbeaten in MCU debates anyway, I don't subscribe to the "consensus" with any verse I debate, fight me. Cringe is calling others "delusional" when they don't agree with you.
@morghulis: Cringe isn't having so called "controversial" opinions, although I am unbeaten in MCU debates anyway, I don't subscribe to the "consensus" with any verse I debate, fight me. Cringe is calling others "delusional" when they don't agree with you.
I agree with this
i have many controversal opinions as well and debated that morghulis person on instagram
If he's going to destroy a mountain-small island then it should be at that level, i don't see where the AP comes from lol. Even if he KO's Kaido his AP wouldn't scale up since Kaido is extremely beat up at that point.
@shirso: That's what DC is lol, the damage to the environment an attack causes. You can't just give him a power level he has never shown before, just because his fist is bigger, you have to rely on what he does with that attack.
Next off, you do know that I responded in that manner originally because you came at me, right? Next time, try and argue and give actual feats/scaling to try and sway me. I feel that anything at above country or reaching continental would be a big stretch, due to the long portrayed power-level of the verse. Maybe One Piece can pull a Naruto and reach that though.
Why when there are continental feats existing already like WB's quakes, or Punk Hazard? Hell why would this particular attack be still country lvl when he has country lvl feats in much weaker forms?
@shirso: That's what DC is lol, the damage to the environment an attack causes. You can't just give him a power level he has never shown before, just because his fist is bigger, you have to rely on what he does with that attack.
DC is visual damage, AP is the actual energy behind the attack, most of the time AP >>>>> DC, I am sure I don't need to explain something that basic right?
Anyway Luffy always had dc much higher than a human sized fist, so I am saying with an island sized fist the dc would upscale. If he can destroy a mountain dc wise with a human sized fist, he will do much better with an island sized fist.
The terraforming of PH can be quantified with the volcanic eruptions and it'd give MC yields and this was the spillover from Akainu.
It's quantified with sources and all here. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/quantifying-punk-hazard-9-years-on-2228295/
WB's tsunami feat is above Mag 10 earthquakes which already carry borderline large country-continental energy and he also has the feat of tilting an oceanic plate. It's elaborated in more detail in post 66 here.
Although you didn't answer why this'd be country lvl when he has country lvl feats in weaker forms and you can also just directly upscale the dc from what he has shown with a human sized fist.
I don't see how in the hell would this feat quantify to continental level.
You can just upscale the dc given an island sized fist given what he has displayed with a human sized fist and that's just the dc alone.
So you're saying that due to the sheer size of the fist it should massively upscale from Luffy's previous feats while he was using a normal human sized fist?
Okay… so the terraforming of an island = multi-continental energy? I mean, triggering volcanoes and such across the planet is something Orochi did when he summoned energy for Gaia Cannon, but that is part of the feat is simply not multi-continental but large-country level.
Triggering volcanoes once is one thing, your spillover power generating volcanic eruptions for 2 years straight something else, that thread just quantified the amount of energy released in eruptions when all the volcanoes on PH would eventually go dormant, this energy is all Akainu's.
Basically, Orochi triggered eruptions once in already existing volcanoes, Akainu's spillover power generated eruptions for a period much longer than 2 years and created active volcanoes where none existed.
I’ve seen calcs for that feat (WB‘s Tsunami) being small country to large country, not close to continental for sure.
Literally not possible, the height of the tsunamis he generated puts his seaquake far above Mag 10 ones which carry large country lvl energy, and he generated 2 of those.
The calcs you saw (probably from VSBW) made the usual mistake that's made while quantifying earthquakes, that is they only accounted for the seismic radiated energy (this is the energy that is responsible for destruction to human lives and property that we see), however the real energy of an earthquake is what's needed to generate it in the first place by shifting tectonic plates against each other, which is given by the Seismic Moment Energy and much much higher than the radiated energy. For a Mag 10 quake's case, the Seismic Moment energy is 294 teratons (large country lvl), but WB's quakes were much stronger.
Attack potency is continental+ from WB and Raigo upscaling but I'd like to comment more on the DC so I'll just repost what I've said before with a minor edit.
This chapter has gone on to further cement the DC of One Piece. Luffy was able to create an attack as large as Onigashima which at the barest minimum would be island level but that would be quite disingenuous. Basically, if a Gear 4th King Kong Gun with an area of 25m²(5m by 5m fist) can produce city level destruction or 4.184e17 joules of energy, then a fist from gear 5th which has an area of 256000000m²(16,000m by 16,000m fist, size warranted by it being comparable to Onigashima which is stated verbatim by Law to have a mountain range of which the smallest one irl is about 16km) should be able to output 4.284416e+24joules of energy or or 1 petaton of tnt or small continent level DC via direct proportions. I think it's a fair evaluation as:
•This only accounts for if a King Kong Kun from Gear 4th(a weaker form) were that big.
•It is lowballed considering the destruction created by the KKG was as a result of Luffy punching Doffy into the ground making the feat an indirect one and the actual baseline much higher.
@shirso: Yes I agree on that part, he can probably destroy an area much larger than Onigashima with that fist, but to say his AP is continental due to upscaling from his previous forms is just wank, because he has never shown anything close to it, nor the characters he has fought himself. When he has an actual continental feat or the character he faces, then we can say he is continental.
@darkpsychiclord_prime: It's quantifiable though, we can proportionately upscale from the dc a human sized fist has shown, it's not just his weaker form was country lvl, his stronger form is continental, there's solid numbers.
@shirso: By that logic we could scale Platinum Sperm to multi-continent level due to the number of black sperm cells that compose him, by looking at the feats of a single black sperm cell, but in actual feats he has shown nothing close to that level.
@darkpsychiclord_prime: Sure you can, PS is narratively meant to be the combined strength of some trillion cells anyway, I wouldn't put him at multi continent as I disagree with where some place an individual BS cell strength wise but that's different. Similar logic is also used to scale 3rd form Juubidamas which are much larger than 2nd form for instance, it's not a new thing, just a more quantifiable multiplier.
@shirso: Well i find that extremely stupid, we should rely on actual feats since that's how the author sees the character. Only the fandom would take the time to account all the multipliers and place the character at a level he's in reality not portrayed at.
@darkpsychiclord_prime: Multipliers aren't uncommon though, almost every battle shonen has it, it's not always logistically possible to show dc relative to the tier so multipliers become a reliable way for the author to show just how much stronger a character got.
But no matter, as long as you are consistent in your approach for every verse, it's ok, if you are discarding multipliers, discard for every verse.
@shirso: I think multipliers can carry you to a certain degree, when it becomes clear that the characters are not being portrayed at the level you're placing them, it becomes stupid to use them. Naruto, Bleach and sometimes Dragon Ball are verses which rely on multipliers a lot more than actual feats. Also, the fandom tends to ignore the multiple low showings the characters have, in order to keep placing them at the level they believe they are. That also goes to the comic fandom, who scale characters from showings against other characters, who may also scale to other characters, without looking at their actual consistent feats. Tho in the end, hypothetical vs debates are based on who has the most convincing argument, or can counter the opponent's argument, so in some cases the multipliers and scaling become "valid", if the other person doesn't have much knowledge on the characters or is can't be bothered to post all the low showings which contradict the placing of said characters.
we can proportionately upscale from the dc a human sized fist has shown
this^^
It was never once stated Luffy's DC only caps at Island. It could be way much more.
Onigashima is just like this rock compared to Luffy's punch-
Again, Wano is nothing but just a small rock (as shown above) in comparison to Luffy's fist size!
Compare it to Alabasta Luffy, he could destroy structures much bigger than his own fist-
No gears! No armament! Far weaker version! Onigashima Island is also nearly made up of same materials as these buildings!
If Alabasta Luffy's punch can produce DC which is like 100+ times bigger than his own fist. Why not the same should apply to G5 Luffy's giant fist?
Luffy lowballer logic: smaller punch can produce way more DC than its size, but giant punch can't because my head-cannon physics!
Be reasonable folks. Luffy's DC way larger than an Island. At least country level easily! And AP is even much higher, since AP >>> DC! And this was too much just lowball, since even chapter 1 Luffy's small fists can beat a way bigger Sea King.
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