The Morningstar Revised A Dc Black Label Respect Thread

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Youve just killed your boss, you had a big deadline to a most important project an you failed to complete it in time. Now the company that wanted to buy from your company chose to buy from another. So your boss is furious that he just lost out on a hefty paycheck so in kind he decided to fire you in return, so what did you do? You killed him, now looking down at the bloodied corpse your mind screams at you“ What have you done??? You’d never do something like this, something or someone must be to blame” then it comes to you He made me do it. This is all His fault, The Devil made me do it. Horns, Hooves, Sacrificing your neighbors babies, an just plain old evil is typically what most think of when referring to the rebellious angel. But today I'd like to introduce you to a different version of the character. This one is well bad but a different type of bad. You see he never made you do anything and he doesn't much appreciate you blaming him for your mistakes thank you very much, he also has no interest in your soul to quoteith him " humans talk like I go about buying souls like a fishwife at the market. I don't own anyone's soul how can one own a soul? No they own themselves they just hate to own up to it." Ladies an gentlemen I'd like to introduce to you a character I found by accident but I've come to enjoy his story. Hailing from dc comics sub company vertigo comics (now black label) perhaps one of the most powerful beings in comics Lucifer Morningstar the son of YWH.

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Bio:

In the beginning there was nothing, to be more specific there was infinite nothing, an to be more specific than that this nothing was actually a something YWH or the presence as most refer to him as or…. Well let's just say he has a great many names that I'm not listing, anywho at some point YWH decided to create two unimaginably powerful brothers Michael demiurgos and Samael the lightbringer.

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They were his first big undiluted ideas that he tasked with creating the multiverse.

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Michael was to create the foundation for all while samael shaped it with his will.

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Note he did not need either of them as he had already played out creation a thousand times but instead he did it to teach them there powers.

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Some time shortly after creation was made Samael started to get dark thoughts about his father which eventually helped lead his decision in renowncing his angelic name and officially becoming known as Lucifer Morningstar, and of course leading a war that was said to be the first great war that all others are mere reflections of

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General:

Lucifer is not made of flesh

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Further proof that lucifer isn't made of flesh (could also be used as a resurrection feat as he revived mazikeens current business partner)

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But instead he is made of will

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Lucifer is the presences infinite will.

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An thus he bleeds will

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Lucifer confirms there is only one of him in existence.

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and lucifer existed when mankind were naught but an idea

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and he first came to them 50 thousand years ago when a neanderthal considered killing his brother

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he noticed lucifer as a shadow man against the cave wall it was here when man first began to fear death.

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He is so powerful that even the infamous john constantine is afraid of him and he has dealt with the first of the fallen multiple times (dcs other devil figure)

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Lucifer could easily erase remiel from existence but chose not to in this case due to the possible consequences.

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At some point lucifer an amenadiel have a fight in hell which lucifer won, however remiel tried to accuse him of cheating because while lucifer brought his heart to the area (something apart of the rules) it wasn't in his chest (that way lucifers life would've been forfeit) at the same time mazikeen had caught up with the Japanese god who had previously stolen his power an placed them in two feathers. Once she destroyed those feathers lucifer regained his might an well think remiels face says the rest.

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At some point in the story lucifer calls some of the host to lux so that he can show them that creation was fading away, they show up armed to which he causally replies the following further hinting the host isnt a threat to him

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When the giant brothers gained the presences power, lucifer was quick to go to the silver city in an attempt to recruit his brother michael against them. On arrival lucifer is met with armed members of the host which seem to not impress him matter of fact he insults them an tells them if they keep it up he was gonna kill them all, again playing on the fact that he is superior to the host.

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Lucifer is so powerful the host is afraid to fight him without michael, should be noted in this particular instance amenadiel did convince them to confront him.

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Lucifer compares gabriel a much stronger angel than most as a drop of dew in comparison to him.

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Lucifer considers the host to be fodder all except michael.

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This demon who was a duke considers him the highest power under heaven.

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Lucifer is more powerful than the first of the fallen.

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Lucifer is more powerful than all of hell and could destroy them all if he chose to.

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Lucifer is so powerful that his mere presence alone is enough to halt entire armies

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Lucifer built a house to protect the hunted god this house must have been something because odin saw it best to not attack the hunted god while both were inside.

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Narrative tells us the basanos cannot beat lucifer in a direct confrontation.

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And After some serious probability manipulation an failure to kill lucifer, the child of the basanos beg for there life to which luckily for them he spares

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Lucifer seeks out destiny in his garden, once there he demands destiny to hand him his book or he will destroy him if need be destiny senses he could do as he said

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Lucifer is so powerful that delirium of the endless seeks him out to do what she cannot, unfortunately she wanted her brother an he refused her due to the fact death had already come to claim him.

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The Goddess of Misfortune, Jyestha considers him to be one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

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And Dream of the endless is terrified of him

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So it shouldn't be surprising that he doesn't care if he incures dreams wrath.

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Lucifer is older and more powerful than the angel of death

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And according to him death has no claim on him to which she seemily agrees.

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Lucifer threatens deaths existence to which she seemingly agrees that he could end if he chose to.

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Lucifer considers all of hell as gnats in comparison to him there is only one he views as his superior and that's his father

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Dream also considers him second to only the presence, and of course dream also admits lucifer is far more powerful than he is.

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Lucifer could make a fire that burns forever with a gesture.

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Lucifers flames are the flames of all the sun's in existence an he could turn the silver city to ash. (Despite the city not being finished here he should be more than capable of doing so as he claimed)

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The basanos confirm that when he uses his flames the stars themselves dim.

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Lucifer states he can burn all of creation, an considering in sandman overture all the sun's in creation (aka his creations) almost wiped all creation out. An the fact that he shaped creation and oh I dunno the plethora of others that he scales above are all capable of ending creation I think it's safe to say this probably isn't an exact exaggeration.

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Intelligence:

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The fading Egyptian gods of the daat try an trick lucifer into killing osiris so they can make him the new ruler of there realm, an in doing so they may use his legend to renew there own, unfortunately he sees right through this an refuses them that, then the following scan below happens

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Lucifer knows the true death and knows secrets of the universe.

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Mazikeen hints that lucifer knew everything that was gonna happen during his first arc of the 2018 series.

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To get into the house of windowless rooms one must stick there hand into boiling water an grab a random stone(red to get in) so lucifer did what any smart man would do he splashed the water on the guard an grabbed the stone an entered

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Once entered the house of windowless rooms of course there were immediate plots to kill him, I mean why not he was wingless and powerless. So one of the attempts was to send a powerful demon that the Japanese gods had captured to kill him. Lucifer of course knew this and offered her death that if she died at his hands he would bring her back and offer her a job at first the assassin thought him a fool but he convinced her to allow him to kill her but not before she informed him of the other plots to kill him.

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Having learned of the Japanese god’s plan to kill him, from one of the demons they had captured, Lucifer decided to use that demons poison sacs to poison one of the gods without them knowing despite them being right next to him as he did it, in doing so when they did try an attack him they failed an ended up killing there brother in the process an ended up dying shortly after heres the scan

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Just before his fight with amenadiel in hell, Another demon assassin was sent to kill him, lucifer tried to make another deal with this one but it didn't work so he says the magic word in which would make the tower he was staying in disappear sending the assassin to his death.

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Another log story cut short amenadiel of the host challenges lucifer, stuff happens rendering lucy powerless. Amenadiel sends an assassin to kill lucifer which fails lucy takes the assassin's heart an replaces his with it's amenadiel eats the poisoned heart unknowingly then lucifer gains the upper hand an kills him( most messed up part about this is the goal was to eat the others heart an lucifer had rudd bring his heart to the area which was at some point given to amenadiel under the disguise that it was a charm .)

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Lucifer went looking for a relative of loki's so that he may borrow a ship from him once he got to bergs( I don't remember how to spell his whole name) home he found an old woman who promised to bring him to the ship instead of berg who seemily wasn't there under the condition that he must kill the first thing he sees once they get there, so lucifer agreed an they left eventually they come to the tree that hides the ship an the woman tells lucifer to enter an kill the first thing he sees, knowing this was a trick he throw the woman in without turning to face her an walks in to find a broken mirror and berg lying on the ground.

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Freshly revived from his near death experience lucifer sets off to take care of the basanos to do this he enlists the help of Jill presto who was there plaything an didn't like them, once he had her all's he had to do was wait for them which weren't long, at first they thought he was still to weak to oppose them, but then he told them that he could an would kill Jill presto an make them wait another real long time before they had another chance at making a child. Knowing that if he was at full power he could pull off his threat and not wanting to take the risk they asked what his terms were to set there child free. The terms were that they were to off themselves which they did stating his universe doomed them in which he replied it expressed his will which is true he made his creation without a set destiny so beings that were reliant on it would have a hard time seeing whither or not he was bluffing in this case he absolutely was.

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When the presence left creation he intended his sons to take up his role. With him gone creation started to fade lucifer refusing to have anything to do with the seat and the role given with it, lucifer gives the role to his niece stating he'd watch creation fall before he sat on that seat also knowing she wouldn't refuse him.

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Lucifer managed to absorb the 20 billion year history of a creation just being born.

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Offensive Feats:

While powerless lucifer kills a giant dog with his bare hands.

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While searching for some information lucifer seeks out the leader of the lilim, who mistakes the purpose of his visit so they have there men attack him which he stops with seemily his mind then the following scan below happens.

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Lucifer kills some quiama by nuking there unfortunate hosts in their sleep.

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Lucifer roasts a demon on his way to the house of windowless rooms.

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And roasts an angel who tried to sneak up on him.

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Lucifer roasts either an immortal snake or one that's extremely long lived as it's there to poison loki until ragnarok.

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Lucifer roasted some mountain sized giants who were trying to prevent luciferd crew from taking of with the ship(don't ask me to spell that Im not trying) that the giants just gave to lucifers crew.

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Lucifer is attacked by a dream version of himself which he easily beats.

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Lucifer can grow to true stellar size an can crush entire stars with his hands

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Lucifers will is more powerful than the voiceless gods.

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Lucifer one taps fenris

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Lucifer was able to kill odins horsemen beings who the lords of order were scared of

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and who are the very concepts of there names,

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who are a primal force and a pure act of the universe, predatory desire made flesh part of ones own dna.

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beings who will continuously revive so long as the hunt remains and only the death of the hunted god would return them to slumber.

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however by continuously killing them he was erasing there very concept from the universe, btw this could be considered a speed feat as well because like with the hunted god these horsemen were revived in different places each time an he managed to track them down and kill them before they could reform

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the results which would do damage to the all being. or all creation as odin put it.

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Lucifer burned pages of destinys book, which can be considered most impressive considering destinys book has been said to contain all existence within it only a dozen times, and even a shadow copy of notes can effect everything check it out.

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Lucifer destroyed the mansions of silence with his mere presence, a realm for lost and forgotten souls an a realm that contained countless other rejected universes an creations

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Lucifer one taps the logos

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The thing creation depends as the logos is the word of God that sung creation into existence

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And that holds all of creation together as a matter of fact it's more than just that.

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It's where his words or voice lives ( another aspect of himself)

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Further evidence of the logos holding the voice.

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While possessed lucifer an michael have a fight which ends with michael dying and lucifer as the victor.

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Lucifer kills his fashioned death (basically a death fashioned by someone "close" to him, once he touches it he is supposed to die…. That didn't happen) he also explains he managed to kill the giant brothers who had his father's power by nuking them in the past (as explained in the story the giant brothers weren't used to said power so it made this plausible)

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Defensive Feats:

A powerless lucifer walks nine days straight with no food and no water in a desert like realm a feat that should easily prove fatal towards most.

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lucifer has no need of a heart to live.(well not in his chest anyways)

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Long story short etrigan became the king of hell mostly because lucifer allowed it. Eventually lucifer got bored of etrigan an broke the chains placed upon him an then he easily tanked ertigans hellfire before taking off.

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Lucifer causally tanks a supernova though this shouldn't be surprising.

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Lucifer sits an takes a blast from the child of the basanos. Again the basanos are incredibly powerful beings.

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The basanos can summon up all your possible deaths an they try this with lucifer an fail epically

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Another long story short before lucifer regained his wings, the basanos sought out of the Japanese gods and with there help they managed to cast a very powerful spell on lucifers wings, when the Morningstar went to use his flames against the basanos they with help activated the spell an turned his flames against him which he does survive just badly burned(eventually Elaine sacrifices herself to revive him)

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The first time Lucifer tanked Michaels power was when michael created the foundation for their fathers creation.

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The second time he did so was when he brought a broken and dying michael out into the void an he struck him down so he may use his brothers power to make himself a creation.

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Lucifer managed to tank michaels power a third time (though this time it was wielded by Elaine), this is time was probably the most impressive time as he had already been incredibly weakened. An for those who care Elaine's creation was stated to big enough to put both ywhs an lucifers creation into it. ( Just a quick note despite the apparent muh Elaine is stronger than michael at this point in time, that I've seen some claim, an these few scans could also suggest that. It's simply not the case Elaine is just as powerful as michael as their power is the demiguric aka gods power they're just the vessel. This just shows Elaine had no idea on how to control the power. Also stated in book she had no idea what she was doing)

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Reaction and Speed etc feats:

His reaction speed is as close to being as instantaneous as possible and if he so chose he could easily circle the earth before his image faded from your eye.

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Lucifer kills a star to kill the hunted god.

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Then he repeatedly kills the hunted god over an over an over before they could even reform eventually reducing them to notta which is impressive considering everytime they die they get spawned into some random womb in creation as seen in the scan below so...

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Lucifer helps spread a gateway so large that it's big enough to drop both his an his father's creation into Elaine's regardless he musta been traveling ludicrously mtfl lol.

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Lucifer dodges an attack made by one of the giant brothers.

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This is actually quite bonkers if I say so myself lucifer can either see or sense the host coming for him when theyre way in the silver city and he is on earth.

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Miscellaneous Feats:

Lucifer is able to fully comprehend the void and creation within

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lucifers eyes see the truth in all things.

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further proof his eyes only see truth.

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and they can see whither or not youve done wrong in ur life.

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Lucifer shrunk his bar lux into something he could fit in his hand.

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If you can change your form he can bind you to that shape

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Lucifer is attacked by a witch (durability feat) then tells her she either does as he says or he strips her of her power an let's space kill her. (So he can also strip beings of there power)

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Lucifer blinds two lilim by making there eyes explode.

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Lucifer can regen his eyes with a wave of his hand.

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While extremely weakened lucifer became badly burned and healed himself from that in the matter of walking up some stairs.

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Using the letter of passage given to him by the host lucifer opens a gateway to the void and wields it open using his father's name, so that anyone who tried to close the gateway would end up unmaking all of creation in the process.

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Later lucifer folded the gateway through space an time an put a gateway on every world and realm in both creations.

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Towards the end of his original series Lucifer summons all the gateways from both creations and folds them back into the letter of passage that he was given at the end of the sandman presents lucifer, a feat said that only he was able to do.

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What Lucifer kills he can bring back.

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During the trip to the mansions of silence mazikeen was sadly killed by the ruler of the realm, luckily for her though lucifer resurrects her.

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Lucifer can create life

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Lucifer can create life from scratch an age it millions of years an he can do this repeatedly.

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You see demons have no souls so when this one crossed him he fashioned him one (note for his punishment he was tortured)

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And he can withold death from beings.

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Further evidence that lucifer can withold death from beings and places.

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Elaine poisons a man trying to kill her, lucifer and Elaine enter his mind, with lucifer being the only thing holding the man back from death.

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Lucifer can kill immortals with a touch.

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In an attempt to kill lucifer the silk man weaves seven layers of death around him to no avail. Then lucifer responds in kind by making him cease to be.

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One way or another Lucifer got every afterlife to March with him.(which included the likes of hades and the people of the daat who he almost destroyed and even the paraliment of trees who were afraid a weakened lucifer would roast them.)

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Time, space an infinity are meaningless concepts to him.

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Lucifer is capable of affecting people that he's not even in the same creation as. (That's some serious reach)

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Lucifer fixes mazikeens face to what it was before the basanos (basically destiny in tarot deck form) changed it. This is fairly impressive considering mazikeen tried a multitude of different ways to fix it through legit a whole issue an failed.

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once lucifer obtained destinys book he erased himself from it an existence.

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which woulds ultimately make the fabric of the universe collapse

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the former hunted god was able to fool creation that he still existed by taking up his mantle with a few others, however this would not last forever as she messed up by being kind to an old lady who was dying once creation realized the devil never was. It changed everything, everywhere at once

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the cave man who once began mankinds fear of the devil, thought nothing of the shadow and decided to kill his brother. there was a war in heaven that was swiftly dealt with and hell would never come to be.

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with lucifer gone no one ever feared the dark or the shadows, the fear of death was not a thing.

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The presence states lucifer escaped his function his destiny which is actually really impressive considering destinys book dictates all of creation.

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After the fight at the world tree that left michael broken an dying he decided to give his daughter his power to save all of creation unfortunately she wasn't nearly powerful enough to contain the power so it started to destroy her and leak out until lucifer willed it into her.

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Lucifers Multiverse:

Lucifer states he made not a realm but a totality, a multiverse.

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When people asked carey what he meant he had this to say

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He created the all the everything

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A creation, a totality, a cosmos next to ours it's all encompassing, further getting at that he basically created his own dc next to dc.

Lucifer states he passed in-between multiverses more than likely referring to his, his father's, an Elaine's as they were the main ones talked about in his whole original series an that one to.

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Narrative confirms the blast made to create lucifers creation is the same size that was used to make his fathers, thus the two creations are the same size.

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Lucifer makes Elaine an her friend the guardian spirits of his creation though no one may ever worship them.(Elaine actually does do one thing pretty impressive as this she easily one taps the green)

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Lucifer creating Galaxies in his creation

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And sun's in his creation

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And shaping a world in his creation

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Lucifer even invites comparsion.

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Lucifer created his creation with no set destiny, hence the reference to an asylum.

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Amenadiel confirms desires an all things come from lucifer.

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Elaine flying through all the layers of lucifers creation describing them as she went.

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Other:

Ok so in this section I just wanted to address a couple of things that Ive seen that either irk me or I thought was interesting, first I'll address the thing that irked me just to get it out of the way.

The war in heaven, we all know the story lucifer an a third of the host rebeled against the rest of the host in attempt to overthrow there maker an lost, an as a result of that they were cast from heaven. Now I've seen quiet a few use this as a reason to claim the host> lucifer, which I'm afraid simply isn't true now if the dozen scans that I posted that point to lucifer being there superior isn't enough for you lemme explain a few things lucifer lost the war in heaven because he was destinied to lose the presence was backing the host it was all apart of his plan don't believe me? That fine take it from the presence himself

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To further back this point up later In the story (after the presence left) master rudd rounds up a fairly big army that lucifer deduced that he made so he may March on heaven with, at first Elaine is shocked stating that there's no way he could win against the host, but lucifer shuts her notion down stating without the presence backing them up he believes rudd could actually win against the host check it out

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And you know what during the war that ensued shortly after (not with rudd's army he was helping the host) with the lilim an half angels the host was almost defeated had lucifer an Elaine not been there the outcome is pretty clear to me.

Now for what I believe is easily the nail in the coffin on this, so back in the arc children and monsters lucifer took off to look for michael so that he could kickstart his creation, while he was gone the host appeared on his door step in hopes to confront him, with him not being there they took the next best thing his gateway an through many casualties they succeeded in taking it. Eventually lucifer rescued michael an went back to lux, when he got there the host were waiting for him an following scan tells pretty much all.

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He comes home an asks why the host are on his property and amenadiel states they've claimed his doorway so lucifer states "well even in his broken state I'm sure you recognize michael, and I've promised him death only question remains is where if the doorway is yours I'll have to drop the axe right here" the moment the host hear what he planned on doing they all back off telling amenadiel they lost cause again If michael dies creation will cease to exist so fearing his power an knowing none of them could survive the blast they back off and let lucifer through then can you guess what happens next? Hint hint the guy your reading about tanks the thing that the host were terrified of which should again put that whole notion to rest.

Now for the interesting bit, the year was….. actually tbh I'm not sure it was before 1989 though. american gothic swamp thing number 50 just came out introducing a new being into the dc universe, the great darkness, it's name was evil or the great evil beast or geb as most refer to it as, the mighty shadow beast gods darker half.

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Fast forward to 2018 a brand new lucifer series comes about where the author really talks about lucifer being a fractional figure which is really showcased when lucifer travels to talk with the Hindu gods about a possible afterlife for one he had relations with, while there we get to see all the lucifers that he was an could be, one version of himself stuck out the most check it out

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The giant dark hand in background, looks an awefully lot like geb and it didn't take long for people to start questioning if it was or not so eventually someone took off to find out whither or not that's what the hand represented and here what the author had to say

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It is indeed… there you have it folks according to the current author Geb=Lucifer, now while I think that's an awesome idea I find that they're some conflicting ideas with that so take it as you will, ones things for sure I do sincerely hope it's something further expanded on in the future.

so now that lucifer 2018 is complete, i think the most compelling evidence for lucifer being geb comes from his last issue, after lucifer is gone mazikeen is sitting on a beach when the host come to her, another being is missing this time is god the presence has vanished, the host blame lucifer, who mazikeen tells them that he is gone and never was, confused the host ask her why would the presence fall silent to then? mazikeen tells them they should examine what lucifer was and why he was different from them.

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later in a letter he wrote to mazikeen lucifer states without him there is no god.

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because he is the literal darkness. he defines the presences very being , without him he becomes indistinct

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we also have more evidence, which comes from a visit to hell while there the remiel an duma question his appearence, he tells them that he is simply there to vow to them that he will not return to hell, during this vow he acknowledges himself as the great beast.

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my last piece of evidence for this claim, comes from the former hunted god who possesses his heart an who tried to keep his name alive is reffered as the great beast multiple times

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there we have it folks to we say he is geb now?

So there you have it folks you've made it through the end of thread I hope you all enjoyed it. Do you think lucifer has earned me stating he is one of the most powerful beings in comics? (or at least dc) please lemme know down below an of you have any questions that I can try an answer please lemme know, enjoy.

@drakotheghoul

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tauio

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nice nice

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DrakoTheGhoul

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#3  Edited By DrakoTheGhoul

Great Lucifer Thread. There was a few errors here and there or atleast what i could tell though i could be misinterpreting some.

For example:

Despair(of the endless) never said that Lucifer was one of the most powerful during Lucifer(2018) that was The Goddess of Misfortune, Jyestha, who also found it annoying that Lucifer called her by another beings name. Both Lucifer and his son both were mistaken.(This is from Issue 10 pg 14 of Lucifer 2018)

Then there's the Lucifer is older than Death part, which can be possible, but there was a scan you posted where The Presence already created creation several times prior to the brothers existence which leaves wiggle room that the endless could've came before the 2. Not to mention there's other creations in the void that might have came before the brother's. Also don't forget Death was chasing Silkman across multiple creations in the void so there's plenty of evidence that they could've been there before The Presence created the brothers. Now throw in The Endless Parent's, Mother Night/Father Time, and it makes it even more tricky.

This is only my speculation though and I'm not saying The Endless definitely came before him. Just that it's not exactly told either way. Unless it was confirmed already then I'll retract from it but so far it seems that The Endless could've already been there prior to The Presence creating The Brothers as Creations(his and the others in the Void) were already possibly there.

Overall great thread full of information. There was even some stuff i didn't know or either forgot.

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deactivated-63a599f1d59e7

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just realized i forgot a scan and edited it in the other section, and yes drako is correct my bad i refer to the hindu god as despair of the endless because that is what lucifer referred to her as, despite the goddess telling him he must be mistaking her with someone else, despite this i dont think it takes away from the sole point of me posting that pic which was another god considering him to be one of the most powerful beings out there, as for the angel of death scan and the endless being possibly older yes i believe this could quite be possible, i merely wanted to post what the narrator has stated. also it has occured to me that i made another slight error dote is different than the angel of death (despite that there definity is evidence that supports him being deaths superior) i have made these slight and i thank you pointing them out

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nwname

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#5 nwname  Moderator

Pretty good im convinced Lucifer is Presence tier

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deactivated-63a599f1d59e7

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@nwname: huh dunno y that deleted but no he isn't on the presences level

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deactivated-6108c6c162ecc

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This rt is great

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Gokuisthebest

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UltraPhoenix

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Could you add citations?

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deactivated-63a599f1d59e7

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@ultraphoenix: I certainly can but you'd have to give me a bit itll definitely take a while to find where all that came from

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deactivated-63a599f1d59e7

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bumping to let people know that now that the current lucifer series is done ill be updating this thread hopefully soon stay tuned for the additions. if you want

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deactivated-63a599f1d59e7

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and there you have it folks the thread is updated

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Tedirey

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deactivated-60f4d10418f1d

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Great work

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