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#1 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8239 posts) - - Show Bio

What do think about ComicVine

No Caption Provided

This site apparently became a part of my life and I'd like to write and essay about it on what I think about it, some generalizations on some problems the site has laid out on us and some that you can really takeaway from this site.

What I Really Like About Comic Vine

It was learning experience knowing between convincing and bad arguments

Did anyone else really think that a site where its primary focus or reason to come here was for battles and being part of a toxic fest is a learning experience? I didn't, sorta. It was just a site primarily used to waste my time and because I wanted to convince people my favorite would win. Cuz honestly I am so glad that people who stay for like more than five years ever happen to stay in this site and even exist, and I also like how the age groups are so diverse in comic vine because in Comic Vine, if you have an open mind, you will eventually learn the difference between good debaters and bad debaters, what is convincing and what is not. Staying here for some time, I found it really made feel smarter. It is because flaws you never quite realized or were never really willing to even understand became all so more clear to me staying in this site. I also happened to improve my English and word diversity.

Have an open mind

It was quite funny when I actually realized when I start out this site, my posts never revolved around primarily finding ways my character would win. This is such a big problem for so many people is that they focus on one stat and get trapped there because it was never their character forte and this happens a lot. What people should be focusing on in the end is how their character can win, not how the character beats the other in an arm wrestle. Believe me, even if you think you are doing a good job stressing so much in how much comparable your character is compared to the other, forget it. You say who wins, not whose stronger. This problem stems from the fact that people never learn to get the bigger picture and grasp of what is primarily debated on. This is where you can really learn to expand your horizons for once, and I find that rare in a lot of people even for those who stayed for 5 years. Looking at @nickzambuto/@the_hajduk. He always stresses that out that you need to look at the bigger picture and its easy to find that in his debates in his prime comic vine days where he was most active, because I find that he also deals with a lot of toxic people. Compare him to others and read more, you really start to see how he sounds so convincing. Its really impressed me how he can still believe one character's strengths when he is still fully aware that the other character he is debating against has very powerful strengths, so I rarely see him ever attempt to lowball or call out characters of inconsistencies. Give him a read sometimes. He is a great example for someone who looks at the big picture especially who he has to constantly deal with. Another great example of someone who looks at the bigger picture would be @rogueshadow, and I only ever came across him recently. Looking at the bigger to me is also thinking in a way which you are not dictated to think. Nobody would believe in massively hypersonic DCEU Superman because these are the common standards people have set and called as wank (IMO this is only ever made because people want MCU DCEU battles to be possible). He is a great example in a thread talking about DCEU Superman's speed, he has the guts to say something that is a far cry from what is the standard CV norm for Superman which can be very wrong. Its plausible what he said because he formulated his opinion based on a feat he saw. Guys if you're going to debating character vs character, you have to have an open mind and not automatically call things wank. Thats not debating, thats just avoiding a potential argument because you absolutely refuse to believe what the person has to say. Also rogueshadow is a great debater, I've seen a few of his posts, they often have insight thats really convincing and can often be different.

Another thing about Comic Vine is that so many people are blinded by being a fangirl/boy especially me since I started out that way. I absolutely refused to believe I was getting rekt by @amcu lmao. Pretty sure every MCU/DCEU debater knows him, but one takeaway from this, he keeps things reasonable. The difference bad debaters and good debaters is that they don't put things in the convincing end of the spectrum. When you are blinded by being a fan which is why MCU/DCEU topics are so heated, you will never find yourself sounding as you are actually reasonable and convincing. I always side with DCEU and I've to generalizations that MCU debaters are just terrible considering the majority of people there. @amcu is an MCU debater, and I've never changed my mind so fast honestly. You never win when you believe in a point so fondly because you believe in it so much even if its unreasonable. A good debater is a reasonable debater because they can keep their arguments realistic which is important to convincing people. Basically keep it real.

Comic Vine has the best and most realistic fundamentals you will mostly encounter

The thing about Comic Vine and how they judge their character's power levels is that it their fundamentals revolve on what is shown to you and what is portrayed. Why I think youtube like Death Battle and most specially VSBattles are so terrible in this regard is because they are extremely reliant faulty scaling and calculations usually in the wrong manner than it doesn't feel realistic that the character they are playing as functions in the way they are being portrayed primarily. Majority of threads I come across in comicvine, it always felt realistic especially with what the good debaters believe. For example some site will make Spiderman into some massively hypersonic unbeatable city block buster but have you ever felt thats how powerful Spiderman is when actually reading the comics? Definitely not, and no other site I encountered ever has better fundamentals than we do because its where the characters are at their most realistic since we aren't the ones pushing the dynamic in which the creators perceive their characters. I also think we are the most self aware that we are debating fictional characters when a lot of sites tend to go to calcs based on a particular portrayal of a supersonic feat to either lowball or highball it. Primary example would be Death Battle and I despise their stats because the level operated is always making out something to be better than what it actually is as a portrayal.

I can also see why comic vine does so well at this. They are constantly dealing with comics who often have different writers hence inconsistency exists and crossovers happen way too much.

CAVs and the Formatting

Comic Vine's formatting is why its so easy to read, and the idea of CAVs came to be probably the biggest reason comic vine is such a great site. Nothing more to explain here and no other site I know does this better than comic vine.

You can learn a lot more fiction in CV

off topic, general discussions etc. You are basically in a nerd site and it doesn't just cater to comic readers. You find a lot of people who know different animes, games and comics.

Diversity of people

You will meet people of any age or from anywhere and some off topics give you great insights as well.

Problems You Will Encounter in the Site Currently

What it is like to be a video game debater in comic vine

It sucks, no other word than that other than it freakn sucks. You probably don't wanna start out debating video games in Comic Vine unless the person you know is very well willing to listen to your opinion and has an open mind because no one will even get to argue feats of characters with you, they will automatically dismiss everything as a game mechanic and think its right. Also this weird sort of standard CV has where Cutscenes>QTE>Gameplay. People who play the game, all the 3 are to be considered in the same weight in my opinion. I am not about to discuss this in detail which is saved for another thread, but when you plan to debate a character and use gameplay feats, everyone will think you're wrong which even having a debate. Sometimes I even want to discuss healthbars and different stats characters have as part of feats since even these can be reflective of different character stats, but they will never be discussed because people will always think you are wrong without having a debate if it involves gameplay. So forget it if you're favorite characters' best feats are in the game itself, because if you debate random people, it never ends well.

Debating popular thread vs battles ( MCU vs DCEU, Anime Shonen vs Comics, DBZ vs others which got banned, etc.)

When threads are popular obviously people will create standards based on whats popular opinion. So if you were to make a new opinion, expect people to go toxic. Doing that you are jumping into an angry crowd and you're will be hard to be heard so you can't easily change a standard, so expect not being able to debate. You will also be attacked a lot. If you come across those people, leave... its not worth it. Its just a lot of stress and moderators have to deal with this every time they come into the vine so just imagine how unfun it is for them and they are the ones keeping the vine from looking bad thank god.

Comic Vine is another type of battles site, and if you look at Superman vs Goku in Death Battle, they never look good in the comment sections, and its quite literally the most popular video they have. I think it was a good decision to ban DBZ honestly considering they want to keep the site from getting you mental breakdowns from toxic threads or just reducing the amount of toxicity in threads in general. You can still do CAVs for DBZ which is a lot less toxic than a public thread so its sort of win win. You aren't getting anywhere debating those topics.

Although honestly don't stop yourself debating those threads, just do so if you can handle it. I am honestly baffled some people can still manage and MCU vs DCEU isn't the worst of it last I heard.

Bias can never be avoided even in CAVs

Well yes, CAVs normally test the debater, but even then, people still want their favorite character to win so make sure it isn't public and you get the good people to vote most of the time, but that is looked down upon a lot and its like you are picking people to vote for you as well.

Bugs in this site happen pretty often, and sometimes they make useless additions and don't always listen to the people here.

Until now, we are still requesting for the dark theme, and sometimes they add weird stuff like "less than a minute ago" posts cuz honestly I was already contented with the seconds later or before posts. It made for some really interesting moments to when you encounter the "say something to the above user thread". The most you can do is talk to a mod about this and see how you can compensate outside the site's features.

And expect be

  • Reading fun topics unless this person comes
  • Encountered by person who ruins your thread
  • Not get along with this person
  • Calling out this person.
  • Hating this person
  • Adapting to this person
  • Mentioning this person to others cuz he really pisses ya off
  • Paranoid of this person

But I think thats to be expected.

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#2 Posted by ValorKnight (12412 posts) - - Show Bio

Outside of the video game thing (which, in my opinion, you were being needlessly whiny about) I agree with most of what you said.

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#3 Posted by Amcu (16930 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: This is an excellent write up. Thanks greatly for the kind words! Though IIRC you weren't getting rekt at all in any of our debates. I always had to think hard to come up with counters.

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#4 Posted by FaradaySloth (10083 posts) - - Show Bio

The worst part of Comicvine or any site like this is always the double standards.

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#5 Posted by StormShadow_X (16772 posts) - - Show Bio

Great write up.

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#6 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3586 posts) - - Show Bio

All of this is pretty spot on. There are great things about CV, but there will always be certain things that ruin the experience to a certain extent.

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#7 Edited by ANTHP2000 (27882 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll read through this later and comment. Interesting.

edit: good write-up. And yes, unique opinions will always lead to nasty crowds, unfortunately.

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#8 Posted by EternalDarkFury (1829 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice way to put it. Acceptable.

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#9 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio

Outside of the video game thing (which, in my opinion, you were being needlessly whiny about) I agree with most of what you said.

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#10 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31730 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: The video game stuff is pretty spot on IMO. The way a lot of viners judge game feats is downright stupid. The second you bring up feats that occur in gameplay, people act so goddamn daft.

"Oh it happened in gameplay. How do we quantify that? I don't get it... I mean, if this feat happened in a cutscene; it would suddenly be easy to quantify, even though it'd still be the exact same feat!"

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#11 Posted by jashugan (6636 posts) - - Show Bio

vine is not the place to come for good arguments, there are much better sites than this.

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#12 Posted by Gpower (532 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan said:

vine is not the place to come for good arguments, there are much better sites than this.

Such as?

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#13 Posted by jashugan (6636 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by Gpower (532 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan: Is the community active on this site?

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#15 Edited by jashugan (6636 posts) - - Show Bio

@gpower: yes. we have rules and standards though so watch out

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#16 Posted by MrTrey (450 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah, the arguments here about vs matches and the power levels of characters are as stupidly arbitrary as any other place on the internet.

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#17 Edited by Gpower (532 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan: Can't be no worse then comic vine's rules and standards lol.

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#18 Posted by foxerdes (10259 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool stuff.

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#19 Posted by Kevd4wg (12798 posts) - - Show Bio

Jashugan returned!!

Dope write up tho

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#20 Edited by Coona34 (53 posts) - - Show Bio

People on This site seems to hate on other debating websites and discords pretty aggressively while being bad itself.

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#21 Posted by phisigmatau (1986 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

gotta admit looks legit and less toxic

good write up OP

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#22 Posted by Lan_Fan (14918 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with your titles/points, but not some of the explanations. That said, I don't want to make a rant against people you highly look up to.

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#23 Posted by Supermanthor (20301 posts) - - Show Bio

True

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#24 Posted by Andromeda101 (273 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with a considerable amount of your points, but others I can't really know for sure. I, for example, don't debate game characters to know what's like.

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#25 Posted by jashugan (6636 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: Boss Jashugan is the kid that did

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#26 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (4735 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a good post, and I definitely agree with the part that you need an open mind when debating because it seems like a lot of people immediately disregard the possibility of certain ideas just because they are too radical. Unfortunately this also means a lot of people don't at least hear what the person with said view has to say before judging if it's true or not.

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#27 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31730 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with a considerable amount of your points, but others I can't really know for sure. I, for example, don't debate game characters to know what's like.

Remember when I said that people on vine go out of their way to dismiss perfectly usable feats and make characters more vague and hard to quantify than they need to be? Video game characters suffer from this more than anything.

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#28 Posted by Emperorb777 (11292 posts) - - Show Bio

Cutscenes>>>gameplay and to say otherwise is ridiculous.

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#29 Posted by Lan_Fan (14918 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: @mylittlefascist: @andromeda101: I think gameplay feats should be usable (such as move-sets, fatality and ultimate moves), but using hearth bar as comparison is kinda ridiculous. Judging from the games that I actually play, such as Tekken and Mortal Kombat, it's absolutely flawed.

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#30 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31730 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan: It depends on the particular verse though. Some games do use gameplay stats as a way to show how characters compare to one another.

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#31 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31730 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorb777: But there are games where the feats as shown in gameplay are far more consistent than what's shown in cutscenes where the characters get randomly nerfed for the sake of plot.

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#32 Posted by jashro44 (53144 posts) - - Show Bio

Video games are a complicated subject. I don't think you can just create one rule and judge all game characters by the same rules.

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#33 Posted by jashro44 (53144 posts) - - Show Bio

Also cool thread.

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#34 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8239 posts) - - Show Bio

@valorknight@supremegeneration

I am extrapolating on this point.

@jashro44 said:

Video games are a complicated subject. I don't think you can just create one rule and judge all game characters by the same rules.

Because anyone who considers themselves as a video game debater want to use the best potential of the character how the video game itself is supposed to portray them, not just cutscenes which happens too often in the vine. You can't just set rules for video game characters like that.

@lan_fan said:

@red_ruby_petal: @mylittlefascist: @andromeda101: I think gameplay feats should be usable (such as move-sets, fatality and ultimate moves), but using hearth bar as comparison is kinda ridiculous. Judging from the games that I actually play, such as Tekken and Mortal Kombat, it's absolutely flawed.

It really depends on the game, some games use stats to reflect how powerful a character is compared to another who performed said feat, and its reflective of how the authors perceives the characters power level. Scaling should be possible even through this in ways it isn't unreasonable.

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#35 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (8239 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu: well its cuz I really can't refute anymore sometimes where its just so hard to keep my debates realistic. So these days I often just agree with you.

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#36 Posted by Lan_Fan (14918 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: If I were debating you, I would probably buy your arguments if you somehow had established that the health bar scaling in that specific verse is solid. But yeah, like you said, most people prefer not to listen.

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#37 Edited by DeadpoolUchiha (265 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hate when someone lowballs your character and then gets all pissed when you do the same to theirs

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#38 Posted by jashugan (6636 posts) - - Show Bio

There is nothing wrong with using gameplay for feats, just be reasonable. If it is a game where cutscenes superseed gameplay in terms of canon, the former will take place.

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#39 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (9367 posts) - - Show Bio

Both DCEU and MCU have toxic fans.

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#40 Posted by Kirkseven (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

not bad.

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#41 Posted by Emperorb777 (11292 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorb777: But there are games where the feats as shown in gameplay are far more consistent than what's shown in cutscenes where the characters get randomly nerfed for the sake of plot.

The cutscenes are the actual story that the creators want told, so what the characters do or show in the cutscenes are the canon above all of the game. Take Sekiro, you can beat the first Boss casually but no matter what Sekiro loses his arm because that's the story the Devs want told. You have Drake from Uncharted who can tank bullets but in cutscenes he can't am I to believe Drake is just being nerfed for plot? Or is it that the Devs know the gameplay needs to be enjoyable so Drake can tank bullets so he doesn't just get one shotted every time.

Gameplay is purely just for fun and should be taken with a grain of salt unless the devs come out and say that this particular thing so and so does during gameplay is a show of their capabilities.

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#42 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31730 posts) - - Show Bio

@mylittlefascist said:

@emperorb777: But there are games where the feats as shown in gameplay are far more consistent than what's shown in cutscenes where the characters get randomly nerfed for the sake of plot.

The cutscenes are the actual story that the creators want told, so what the characters do or show in the cutscenes are the canon above all of the game. Take Sekiro, you can beat the first Boss casually but no matter what Sekiro loses his arm because that's the story the Devs want told. You have Drake from Uncharted who can tank bullets but in cutscenes he can't am I to believe Drake is just being nerfed for plot? Or is it that the Devs know the gameplay needs to be enjoyable so Drake can tank bullets so he doesn't just get one shotted every time.

Gameplay is purely just for fun and should be taken with a grain of salt unless the devs come out and say that this particular thing so and so does during gameplay is a show of their capabilities.

That's not universally true. There are lots of games where the story is told almost entirely in gameplay, with only a few cutscenes sprinkled here and there to force certain things to happen.

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#43 Posted by ourmanuel (11955 posts) - - Show Bio

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that the whole video game rant has a lot to do with DMC right?

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#44 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8239 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: nope, in fact they never suffer as much because a lot of their best stat feats are cutscene based.

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#45 Posted by Ultimate_Knight (11022 posts) - - Show Bio

The cutscenes are the actual story that the creators want told, so what the characters do or show in the cutscenes are the canon above all of the game. Take Sekiro, you can beat the first Boss casually but no matter what Sekiro loses his arm because that's the story the Devs want told. You have Drake from Uncharted who can tank bullets but in cutscenes he can't am I to believe Drake is just being nerfed for plot? Or is it that the Devs know the gameplay needs to be enjoyable so Drake can tank bullets so he doesn't just get one shotted every time.

Gameplay is purely just for fun and should be taken with a grain of salt unless the devs come out and say that this particular thing so and so does during gameplay is a show of their capabilities.

According to developers, bullets do not actually hit Drake until the last one.

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#46 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (4933 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome write up. Good work.

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#47 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (4933 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay.

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#49 Posted by jashugan (6636 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by jashugan (6636 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: in reality, nearly all the best devil may cry feats come directly from cutscenes and the anime. You can check my respect threads to verify that.

They're better than many video games on that front. It's usually rpgs that tend to suffer from this.