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Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) 8 months, 22 days ago

Poll: Superman using the spear himself vs all the decisions the avengers/gotg made in IW -- which was dumber??? (73 votes)

Superman 38%
Avengers 62%

Specifically, Star-Lord not being able to wait 5 seconds, the space avengers/gotg trying to physically remove the gauntlet instead of using portals, and Cap persuading Vision to live vs DCEU Superman deciding to risk his own life using the spear.

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#1 Posted by deactivated-5bd0d99b6c6f7 (1676 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes had no choice to be honest... He had to do it himself. I don´t even know why you consider it stupid. He actually made a sacrifice to stop Doomsday. What did you expect? Batman couldn't do it, he was meters away, and Batman would´ve been killed of so much faster and Wonder Woman was holding Doomsday down. Plus Batman made his use by shooting the kryptonite gas grenade at Doomsday. Everyone played their part... Now The Avengers, and Guardians... they could´ve been smarter about every situation. I swear I honestly felt like Doctor Strange and Iron Man were the only ones who were taking things seriously (Well besides People on The Battle of Wakanda.) Also don´t even get me started with Star-Lord... Just no..Just....NO.

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#2 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Superman's decision was dumb at all, and in fact was the only thing that made sense in the context of the fight. Batman was useless so giving the spear to him is clearly not an option. Wonder Woman was busy restraining Doomsday, giving Superman the opening to use the spear, so simply giving it to her isn't an option either. A lot of people say he could've thrown it, but why risk missing?? Why not use a method with no chance of missing, especially when you have WW keeping Doomsday restrained?? The restraints obviously didn't hold, but that doesn't mean Superman made a dumb decision.

On the other hand, The Avengers and GotG made a lot of dumb decisions. The off-world Avengers and GotG had Thanos dead to rights, incapacitated, moments away from winning but Star-Lord wanted his answers immediately. He couldn't wait 5 seconds to get the answer he definitely already knew, so he attacked, allowing Thanos to break free. Some blame can be put on Nebula/gotg for bringing up Gamora in the first place knowing how emotional Quill is, but still, the fate of the universe was at hand. But, Quill could've had his cake and ate it too if the off-world team had simply used their brains for a second and used that very, very useful power we saw earlier in the film to end the threat in a split second. Three geniuses, Thanos incapacitated, and none of them think to use a portal to chop the IG off??? C'mon.....Then, we get to Cap. A lot of people say he made the right move morally, but I disagree. Not only was it logically dumb, it was also morally flawed and hypocritical to boot. I understand the morals of trading lives, but circumstance always matters. If the circumstance was small scale, I'd agree with Cap, but it wasn't. The universe was at stake. And Vision wanted to die. But Cap convinced him otherwise....what happened to all that personal freedom he preached in Civil War??

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#3 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

@thepunisherfan: Nah I agree Superman had to do it himself. Besides, Superman would never ask another person to sacrifice their life when he could do it.

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#4 Edited by Blackdog2009 (3659 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman sacrificed his own life for the greater of humanity, Lois, WW and Batman. It was noble. Nothing dumb about it.

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#5 Posted by TonyMartial (8384 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman sacrificed his own life for the greater of humanity, Lois, WW and Batman. It was noble. Nothing dumb about it, stupid.

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#6 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman sacrificed his own life for the greater of humanity, Lois, WW and Batman. It was noble. Nothing dumb about it, stupid.

At least read the first few post before commenting smh

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#7 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (14796 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait why was Superman’s decision dumb? He saved humanity.

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#8 Edited by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait why was Superman’s decision dumb? He saved humanity.

I agree.

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#9 Posted by deactivated-5bb6a6f86dc65 (4972 posts) - - Show Bio

this is spite

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#10 Posted by Stalin-Is-Steel (3586 posts) - - Show Bio

Star Lord's breakdown was in character through. He always jumps the gun when in a high stress situation.

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#11 Posted by Batman242 (11259 posts) - - Show Bio

There was nothing stupid about Clark's decision. There was one sure fire way to end the threat and too many possibilities for the character to do more damage had he gotten out of his restraints... y'know, which he actually did. Clark made the selfless sacrifice of putting his life at risk all so he could save humanity and his 'world'.

It's only stupid if it doesn't work, and in Clark's case it worked.

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#12 Posted by Batman242 (11259 posts) - - Show Bio

Star Lord's breakdown was in character through. He always jumps the gun when in a high stress situation.

Yea, that doesn't make his character any less brash and stupid. Just consistent.

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#13 Posted by Batman242 (11259 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: Was there a particular point in mind to this thread? Have people actually claimed Clark's decision was stupid?

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#14 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: Was there a particular point in mind to this thread? Have people actually claimed Clark's decision was stupid?

Yeah, it's pretty consistent.

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#15 Edited by Worldofthunder (5055 posts) - - Show Bio

Clark's was heroic, Starlord's decision was selfish and straight up poor writing, tbh.

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#16 Posted by Batman242 (11259 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242 said:

@buttersdaman000: Was there a particular point in mind to this thread? Have people actually claimed Clark's decision was stupid?

Yeah, it's pretty consistent.

DCEU Superman - Getting unwarranted hate since '13.

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#17 Posted by deactivated-5bae6e10f11f4 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

This is bait...

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#18 Edited by JohnCena69swag (3730 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by RIKR2 (21275 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Edited by KanyeCosby (6782 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman’s decision was kind of stupid. He could have just flown behind Doomsday, stabbed him from the back, and he would have still been alive.

The Avengers were more stupid though. They had a good amount of time to prep for the fight and they still messed up when there were probably multiple ways they could have stopped Thanos.

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#21 Edited by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikr2 said:
@johncena69swag said:
@variant06 said:

This is bait...

Nah, for 2 years people have been saying the conclusion of the Doomsday battle was a dumb, egregious plot-hole. Now, a similar situation occurs in Infinity War, and i'm just curious which is worse in the eyes of comicvine. If you think it's bait, maybe you realize you've been swimming in the pond too long???

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#22 Posted by Farkam (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

tldr;

The Avengers were so stupid I could just barely enjoy the movie. I enjoyed it more on my second watch considering I knew what kind of nonsense to expect.

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#23 Edited by Toratorn (6241 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah, I don't see anything dumb in Superman's decision. The other best thing would be try to throw it into Doomsday and rush it being deflected and/or broken. That and he actually succeeded in doing everything he planned to do.

Decisions in IW, however, are nothing but stupidity. A long painful chain of stupidity.

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#24 Posted by Heatforce (5697 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really blame Cap. That's part of his character. I think Black Panther may be more to blame. Iirc If BP didn't order the shield down during the battle, perhaps Shuri could have had more time with vision and would have separated the stone? Still can't get over Starlord. He better get a good arc in Avengers 4 or he should no longer lead the GotG.

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#25 Edited by Black_Arrow (10214 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000 said:

I don't think Superman's decision was dumb at all, and in fact was the only thing that made sense in the context of the fight. Batman was useless so giving the spear to him is clearly not an option. Wonder Woman was busy restraining Doomsday, giving Superman the opening to use the spear, so simply giving it to her isn't an option either. A lot of people say he could've thrown it, but why risk missing?? Why not use a method with no chance of missing, especially when you have WW keeping Doomsday restrained?? The restraints obviously didn't hold, but that doesn't mean Superman made a dumb decision.

Superman went full speed and he stabbed him with the spear but didn't manage to kill, he had to push it through him to finally do it, so thrown it wouldn't have worked.

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#26 Edited by Heatforce (5697 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, the way doomsday went down was pretty sound.

- Superman couldn't have held doomsday, besides, he was the one next to the spear after saving Lois.

- Diana was the only other person strong enough to temporarily keep him in place, and even then her footing was about to give.

- Batman had to weaken Doomsday with his last canister of kryptonite gas. So if Superman was holding Doomsday and Diana was supposed to use the spear, wouldn't the kryptonite gas ruin the plan by affecting Superman?

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#27 Posted by Heatforce (5697 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000 said:

I don't think Superman's decision was dumb at all, and in fact was the only thing that made sense in the context of the fight. Batman was useless so giving the spear to him is clearly not an option. Wonder Woman was busy restraining Doomsday, giving Superman the opening to use the spear, so simply giving it to her isn't an option either. A lot of people say he could've thrown it, but why risk missing?? Why not use a method with no chance of missing, especially when you have WW keeping Doomsday restrained?? The restraints obviously didn't hold, but that doesn't mean Superman made a dumb decision.

Superman went full speed and he stabbed him with the spear but didn't manage to kill, he had to push it through him to finally do it, so thrown it wouldn't have worked.

Yeah throwing the spear wouldn't have worked. He could barely fly due to the kryptonite weakening him.

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#28 Posted by deathstroke512 (2373 posts) - - Show Bio

Starlord solos.

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#29 Posted by Batman242 (11259 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

Nah, I don't see anything dumb in Superman's decision. The other best thing would be try to throw it into Doomsday and rush it being deflected and/or broken. That and he actually succeeded in doing everything he planned to do.

Decisions in IW, however, are nothing but stupidity. A long painful chain of stupidity.

As much as I agree with the last statement, especially with Loki kicking it off by bringing the Tesseract out of Asgard and even worse, not using it, I still think it was a great film.

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#30 Edited by Vulkanian (516 posts) - - Show Bio

Wakanda not using its lasers guns and instead used spears like a bunch of primitive savages vs an apocalyptic alien army was the dumbest thing in cinema history.

And people say Black Panther was a masterpiece OMEGALUL.

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#31 Posted by MAZAHS117 (12026 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually don’t see anything wrong with what Clark did. I mean, let’s say he threw it, Doomsy could’ve made a sudden move seeing as Diana was already struggling to restrain him. Plus I think he had to actually further push the spear in to get it all the way thru Doomsday iirc which is what ended up actually putting Doomsday down, so that leads me to believe throwing the spear wouldn’t have been enough to drop the monster. People that bitch about that scene/moment will just never be satisfied with anything with that damn movie *smh*, but whatevs 🤷‍♂️

As far as INFINITY WAR is concerned. ...if I have any issues with that movie and I really don’t for the most part it is the whole Quill/Thanos/Titan moment. I’m not 100% sure Strange could’ve used a portal to take Thanos’ hand off. I mean Wong was able to do it on Black Dwarf, but we really can’t apply Black Dwarfs durability feats to Thanos, we don’t really know for certain if that would’ve work but then again Stephen didn’t even try. Quill is the biggest problem imo. Besides being extra annoying than he usually already is normally in this movie, he did F that moment up because he got overtly emotional and completely forgot the fate of half the lives in all existence was on the line. I get being upset that Gamora was killed, and it’s not really that out-of-character for Quill but it didn’t see a little like poor writing that that’s the reason why that entire carefully constructed plan went tits up because Quill couldn’t keep his composure. This was by NO means a deal breaker for me for the entire movie, but it was def a “C’mon man 🤦‍♂️“ moment.

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#32 Posted by RL4 (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

Dumb thead. While it would've been more exciting for batman to kill Doomsday, he had a greater chance of failing. And Timestone Strange knew what would happen. Actually watch the movies before cranking out garbage threads.

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#33 Posted by deactivated-5bae6e10f11f4 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman00: I’ve never seen anyone label what Superman did as dumb. It made perfect sense, his cheesy speech prior is another story. Now the Avengers... I can see how what they did can be seen as dumb. However it was often driven by emotion. I think this thread is bait because you took two ideas that some people may not even think are dumb and pitted them against each other. I’m not sure what pond your talking about exactly...

maybe people just like to call every scene in the movie dumb because the movie is dumb, I’m my opinion anyway.

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#34 Posted by TonyMartial (8384 posts) - - Show Bio

Wakanda not using its lasers guns and instead used spears like a bunch of primitive savages vs an apocalyptic alien army was the dumbest thing in cinema history.

And people say Black Panther was a masterpiece OMEGALUL.

I was thinking of this as well? Why didnt they bring out their aircraft which we saw in the Black Panther film?

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#35 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

@rl4 said:

Dumb thead. While it would've been more exciting for batman to kill Doomsday, he had a greater chance of failing. And Timestone Strange knew what would happen. Actually watch the movies before cranking out garbage threads.

Dumb response. What does Strange seeing the future have to do with the decisions made, especially by other people?? DiD Strange telepathically convince Starlord and Cap to act irrationally?? Did Strange purposely nerf himself, leading to the deaths of trillions, to...win in the end?? Why not just use his portals to instantly win?? And, literally, the second post of this thread is me clearly establishing my view on Supermans decision. Take the time to gather your thoughts and read a couple post in a thread before cranking out garbage responses.

@buttersdaman00: I’ve never seen anyone label what Superman did as dumb. It made perfect sense, his cheesy speech prior is another story. Now the Avengers... I can see how what they did can be seen as dumb. However it was often driven by emotion. I think this thread is bait because you took two ideas that some people may not even think are dumb and pitted them against each other. I’m not sure what pond your talking about exactly...

maybe people just like to call every scene in the movie dumb because the movie is dumb, I’m my opinion anyway.

They're around. You have less than 500 post so your reasoning for this thread being bait makes no sense. Unless you've been lurking for the past 2+ years you wouldn't know just how many people bash Superman for not throwing the spear or giving it to WW. Furthermore, IW just came out, so why not make a thread talking about a potential plot-hole, and why not put it against one other people see as a plot hole??

If your explanation is all it takes for a thread to be bait in your eyes then almost any thread can be classified as "bait". The pond was an analogy for all the MCU vs DCEU bait threads that some users just feed off, so any thread related to it seems like bait to them.

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#36 Posted by Batman242 (11259 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: Tbh, I wouldn't take anyone seriously who asks why he didn't throw the spear, because those same persons are likely to be the one of those who asked why he didn't stop Zod from killing the family by turning his head or moving him elsewhere. And in turn are the same ones that would've asked why didn't Zod terraform another planet. They don't care for a valid answer, just to nitpick the plot of a film they don't like for some strange reason. Which brings me back to this;

DCEU Superman - Getting unwarranted hate since '13.

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#37 Edited by deactivated-5bae6e10f11f4 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: yeah maybe I have lurked, or had another account, etc. I can tell you I’ve been active here longer than my post count indicates, but who cares. This is a bait thread. I don’t care if you say it’s not because A you clearly already have a solid opinion, and B your arguing with people who disagree with you. I don’t what exactly there is to prove here, there have been plenty of theads discussing the dumb decisions in the movie, in particular those involving Starlord. The difference is the dumb decisions made by Avengers made sense given what we know about the characters, and showed that Thanos won due to being willing to do whatever it took. The Avengers lost because of their mistakes. I don’t think what Superman did was dumb at all, and according to the poll very few people do, so I don’t see the point of all this.

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#38 Posted by RL4 (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000:

Dumb response.

Oof. You're really going to double down on your garbage thread? Cool.

What does Strange seeing the future have to do with the decisions made, especially by other people??

Seeing the future with 1 possible path of victory mean he know's Quill will freak out. That's how seeing the future works. If Strange knew Quill would've fkd up an otherwise perfect plan, he would've told mantis to zip it when incapping Thanos.

DiD Strange telepathically convince Starlord and Cap to act irrationally??

No, what a stupid thing to suggest. Cpt. America values other's people's lives over his own. That's nothing new in his character.

Did Strange purposely nerf himself, leading to the deaths of trillions, to...win in the end??

That's the working theory, that by doing what he did, it leaves open the single eventual path to victory.

Why not just use his portals to instantly win??

Because he saw the future, and would have known it wouldn't work. Did you even pay attention during the movie?

And, literally, the second post of this thread is me clearly establishing my view on Supermans decision. Take the time to gather your thoughts and read a couple post in a thread before cranking out garbage responses.

I couldn't care less about YOUR justification. I made my response based on what you puked into the poll post. Your thread is garbage. Try harder next time, don't get triggered as much either, thnx.

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#39 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: yeah maybe I have lurked, or had another account, etc. I can tell you I’ve been active here longer than my post count indicates, but who cares. This is a bait thread. I don’t care if you say it’s not because A you clearly already have a solid opinion, and B your arguing with people who disagree with you. I don’t what exactly there is to prove here, there have been plenty of theads discussing the dumb decisions in the movie, in particular those involving Starlord. The difference is the dumb decisions made by Avengers made sense given what we know about the characters, and showed that Thanos won due to being willing to do whatever it took. The Avengers lost because of their mistakes. I don’t think what Superman did was dumb at all, and according to the poll very few people do, so I don’t see the point of all this.

Ok, I don't care what you say lol What's the point of opening your response in an argument with an admission that my replies are useless because your opinion won't change?? Actually, I don't care about changing your mind because if this was a bait thread, you just hooked yourself. Why are you giving your opinion???? And, your point B makes no sense. Who else do you argue with if not the people with who you disagree????

The point of this thread was very simple -- to get peoples opinions, which I have. I even have yours.

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#40 Edited by Gokluma (8268 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman sacrificed his life against a very tough foe while Starlord,Ironman and Dr.Strange sacrificed the whole universe for dumb reasons.

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#41 Posted by deactivated-5bae6e10f11f4 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: seem a like we already agree on everything. The Avengers made dumb decisions, and Supes decision wasn’t dumb. If anyone thinks otherwise given the nature of the site I doubt their minds will ever be changed. I never said your replies are pointless, and I never said MY opinion won’t change. Maybe we don’t need to argue about anything? Because all that your post is doing is encouraging people to argue... because of course it will immidiatly become and MCU vs DCEU thing like everything else. So frankly, if that’s not bait I don’t know what is.

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#42 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

@rl4 said:

Yes, he knows Quill will freakout right when they were moments away from securing the victory. The only reason why Thanos escaped was because of Quill. So, you're telling me Strange allowed Quill to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat because it was the only way to win??? Not only that, he didn't use portals because winning that way wasn't the only way he saw to win?? Just because the writers attempted to chokehold the script, doesn't make the characters or writing any more stupid. Strange saw one path to victory, but the movie presented several that either failed through stupid decisions or just weren't used. Even more so, he only saw trillions of possibilities, not all possibilities. So logically, there were more than what he saw. Why screw the universe to get the win, when the win already presented itself several times before???

What does Caps life have to do with this?? It was Visions life he took control of at risk of trillions of others. His whole reason for fighting in CW was because of his belief in personal freedoms. Yet, when Vision chooses to sacrifice himself, that belief goes out the window. Better yet, Cap made this very same decision in WW2 on a much smaller scale when he chose to sacrifice his life. Imagine if somebody vetoed his decision because "we don't trade lives".

So, your only goal here was to troll because the thread triggered you?? Lol

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#43 Posted by deactivated-5bae6e10f11f4 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: dude all your post is going to accomplish is making people argue. That’s bait. If you wanna prove me wrong show me where people were saying Superman’s decision was dumb. Because if you don’t know his character, it seems dumb? Why would someone do something that they know will kill them? Well we know why... he’s a selfless protector of humanity. Like wise the Avengers all have character traits that explain their decisions, however given the stakes they were dealing with.,, yes they made dumb choices, we agree on pretty much everything, but it doesn’t change the nature of the thread.

Tell me this... why would people ignore the dumb decisions of Avengers and not Superman?

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#44 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: seem a like we already agree on everything. The Avengers made dumb decisions, and Supes decision wasn’t dumb. If anyone thinks otherwise given the nature of the site I doubt their minds will ever be changed. I never said your replies are pointless, and I never said MY opinion won’t change. Maybe we don’t need to argue about anything? Because all that your post is doing is encouraging people to argue... because of course it will immidiatly become and MCU vs DCEU thing like everything else. So frankly, if that’s not bait I don’t know what is.

So, any MCU vs DCEU thread is a bait thread?? I don't care if people argue. Argument is encouraged in a forum. Do you just want a bunch of people agreeing with each other?? The threads only go to shit when users fling it.

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#45 Posted by Batman242 (11259 posts) - - Show Bio

@variant06: Tell me this... why would people ignore the dumb decisions of Avengers and not Superman?

I can answer that one.

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#46 Posted by deactivated-5bae6e10f11f4 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (8979 posts) - - Show Bio

Butthurt confirmed

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#48 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: dude all your post is going to accomplish is making people argue. That’s bait. If you wanna prove me wrong show me where people were saying Superman’s decision was dumb.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/rate-the-scene-superman-implaing-himself-to-kill-d-1905110/?page=3

And that's just something I remembered off the top of my head. You can continue to think it's bait, but you're wrong and I don't care. The Superman spear topic has a history of being heavily debated on CV, and this thread was simply made to compare the two and get some opinions.

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#49 Posted by RL4 (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000:

Yes, he knows Quill will freakout right when they were moments away from securing the victory. The only reason why Thanos escaped was because of Quill. So, you're telling me Strange allowed Quill to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat because it was the only way to win???

If he knew the future, then he'd know that they'd never get the gauntlet off and win that way. So, yes.

Not only that, he didn't use portals because winning that way wasn't the only way he saw to win??

He saw 1 way to win. He went with that. Are you thick?

Just because the writers attempted to chokehold the script, doesn't make the characters or writing any more stupid.

Just because you don't understand what you saw doesn't make it dumb.

Strange saw one path to victory, but the movie presented several that either failed through stupid decisions or just weren't used. Even more so, he only saw trillions of possibilities, not all possibilities. So logically, there were more than what he saw. Why screw the universe to get the win, when the win already presented itself several times before???

He saw ~14 million possible futures IIRC. He went through all their attempts to win, and saw 1. Watch the movie dude.

What does Caps life have to do with this?? It was Visions life he took control of at risk of trillions of others. His whole reason for fighting in CW was because of his belief in personal freedoms. Yet, when Vision chooses to sacrifice himself, that belief goes out the window.

Cap would rather give his own life defending someone else's. He wouldn't want to live with himself if Vision let himself die to save him.

Better yet, Cap made this very same decision in WW2 on a much smaller scale when he chose to sacrifice his life. Imagine if somebody vetoed his decision because "we don't trade lives".

HIS life. He's happy as a duck risking his OWN life, not others.

So, your only goal here was to troll because the thread triggered you?? Lol

Only goal was to point out how stupid your thread is. It's your fault you got so mad I pointed it out. Keep blathering on buddy.

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#50 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22542 posts) - - Show Bio

@rl4 said:

Only goal was to point out how stupid your thread is. It's your fault you got so mad I pointed it out. Keep blathering on buddy.

Jesus, I don't think you have the mental capacities to even begin think abstractly. What you see is all you get, I guess. Shame. Lol, well, you accomplished your goal, you used words to point out your opinion. Congrats. I'll keep blathering on though so troll elsewhere.