Superman killing

Alright guys, I'm a big dc reader but something I've never really learned is, does superman HAVE the VOW to not kill. I know batman has that vow not to kill, but has still done it lol. However, I do know superman has killed before, but does he make a promise not to like batman or does he just prefer not to kill?

No, he doesn't have a vow to kill in the same way Batman does. He just values life and does his absolute best to preserve it no matter who it is.

@buttersdaman000: ahh, I see. Interesting. Thankso for helping me out here, really appreciate it! I love both characters just wanted to clear some confusion I had.

Technically Superman has never killed anyone in this current timeline or pre-Flashpoint. He killed General Zod, Faora and Quex-Ul from an alternate universe way back in the late 80's but after that alternate universe's creator: the Time Trapper was killed that universe ceased to be like it never existed. After Superman killed the alternate Phantom Zone criminals he went insane for a while even though they had destroyed every person on that alternate Earth. Superman values life a lot more than Batman to my opinion. He fights tramatized villians and tries his best to help them even when they're whuppin his ass. Superman has a lot more compassion and respect for life. At least the pre-Flashpoint version does

Superman only kills when absolutely necessary (Doomsday).

@jedimastergains: @kar-el: Superman straight up killed Imperiex and Brainiac-13 to save the universe in OWaW. And no problem man, happy to help.

Funny how despite being considered ''the boy scout'' Superman has actually a higher bodycount compared to Batman ''the dark and cool brooding hero''.

Superman has balls

@darthaznable: When did Superman kill Doomsday? Was this during the New 52's Superman: Doomed story?

@buttersdaman000: Does that count? Wasn't Imperiex just an energy being and Brainiac-13 an android? Whatever the case they tried to destroy the whole galaxy so Superman had no choice

That and Death of Superman.

@darthaznable: Doomsday wasn't dead after their battle in The Death of Superman. In Superman# 78 Cyborg Superman strapped Doomsday to an asteriod and threw it into space and Doomsday woke up later on and started laughing

I know but his intentions were to kill basically.

They were sentient and intelligent. I think it counts. Doomsday lacked intelligence, but he was also sentient. I think we agree here, but Superman will kill when he deems it necessary. What stood out about the execution of Zod and his companions is that it wasn't exactly "necessary". There was no one left to save and Superman simply acted as Judge, Jury, and Executioner.

@kar-el: Doomsday was dead. He can be killed it's just incredibly difficult. That early on he hadn't dealt with someone as physically strong as Superman. After that fight Superman wasn't ever able to kill him again. Till they started modifying his genetics anyways.

I don't think so he's killed zod in the comics before and before that he killed and tortured people before. Personally never cared for no kill codes if a writer doesn't want a character to kill then they should just not kill in the movie

He did kill a lot of people and caused a lot of collateral damage in the early Golden Age(1940's).

Imperiex and Doomsday weren't really sentient beings, they were just raging or unstoppable threats which writers cooked up to justify Superman 'killing them' (Imperiex was dissipated by the Big Bang so that doesn't even count) In the Silver Age, Bronze Age and post Brye/DoS modern age, Superman has a strict and clear no killing rule where he outright refuses to kill even dangerous and evil villains due to his value of all life. Him killing goes against his moral code and so he doesn't kill when he deems it necessary, that's an inconsistent excuse in my book.

How do you figure?

i.e he was killed lol

Doomsday definitely wasn't sentient before Doomsday Rex, not only did he only communicate through growls, roars and mimicking sounds but it's explicitly shown when Doomsday Rex is introduced fighting MMH that J'onn detects a proper mind and exclaims "Sentient." That's an on panel confirmation that Doomsday Rex was sentient and that prior to that Doomsday was not. Imperiex might have been sentient to refine my point but him being comprised of energy was probably the intended caveat and he was only focused on one thing so that's not very sentient behaviour.

His energy came from the Big Bang, it's not killing if it's redistributed.

Comic writers are stupid. Any being able to "feel" is sentient. Doomsday just wasn't intelligent. He was like an animal. In Imperiex's case, his sentience and intelligence isn't nullified due to him being an energy being, nor is it by his narrow focus.

Humans are made from naturally occurring elements, and when we "die" we return to them....we're still dead though. It's the same case for Imperiex.

It's just something that's been true for most of the character's history. There was a more laissez-faire attitude about Batman's and Superman's treatment of their enemies at the very beginning, but that was soon changed.

More than anything, it works nowadays as a constraint that forces writers to write slightly more creative Superman stories because Superman has to use his abilities in ways that aren't just neck-snapping or heart removal.

Well if you consider "Whatever Happened to..." canon ( I guess some do as the canonical ending for Silver-Age/Bronze Age Superman) then you can include that as him killing.

Funny thing is when, he had sort of gave the OK for a hero to use lethal force. There was an issue in JLA: Trial by Fire when J'onn became Furnus and was going to destroy the world, where Superman says "Take him down. Whatever it takes." It's safe to say that statement includes killing.

In Silver-Age he tricked a Kryptonian into poisoning/killing himself with Kryptonite I think. He also considered killing Bizarro the first time they met. Superman justified it by saying Bizarro was made up of "inorganic or nonliving matter". Luckily he never went through with it. I can't help but laugh at the mental gymnastics for those instances.

But seriously though from a fan's perspective, I agree Superman shouldn't kill ever imho. I prefer him to always find another way.

Is there are an on-panel confirmation that Doomsday wasn't sentient before that because he has always seen pretty sentient to me. Being able to move and act on his own and also feel makes him a sentient being in my books.

@tdk_1997: There's this page from Superman vol 2 #175 where J'onn reads Doomsday mind only for Doomsday to grab his fist and tell MMH to get out of his mind to which MMH says "Sentient!" as if DD wasn't that before.

@lvenger said:

@tdk_1997: There's this page from Superman vol 2 #175 where J'onn reads Doomsday mind only for Doomsday to grab his fist and tell MMH to get out of his mind to which MMH says "Sentient!" as if DD wasn't that before.

It seems more like J'onn is surprised that Doomsday has started talking all of a sudden.