Super Soldiers: Let's Talk Stats

Super Soldiers: We're talking that level between peak humans like Batman and Daredevil and high-end mutants like Wolverine, but probably a bit stronger physically: MCU, 616 and 1610 Cap; Pre-Flashpoint and New-52 Deathstroke; Solid Snake, Big Boss, Leon Kennedy and Chris Redfield! Oh, and don't forget the Master Chief.

So anyway, who's got the best stats, and in which categories?

• Strength
  • Lifting
  • Striking
• Speed
  • Perception
  • Reaction
  • Combat
  • Travel
• Toughness
  • Durability
  • Pain Tolerance
  • Regeneration

So, who has what it takes to be crowned king of the super soldiers?

@jinn@nickzambuto@brucerogers@sirfizzwhizz: Care to rep your boys?

@elijah_c_washington: Thanks for the tag. Will look into this later

I'm going to advocate for Ultimate Captain America.

Lifting

I'm going to go with Ult. Cap for this one. Honestly, this one I think is the one he just has in the bag and he only really needs one feat to prove it:

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1. Captain America matching strength with an injured Peter Parker.
2. An injured Peter Parker casually lifting an 5-9 ton truck and smashing it

However, I'm not going to just leave it at that one feat, Captain America isn't some one pump chump, and is routinely superhuman:

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Captain America tranq up on half a pint of tetrodotoxin starts barreling through the Britain superhumans. The Britain guys are strong enough to stand up to liberators, and just a few of them were able to topple the statue of liberty.

Striking

I think the only one in the OP that might beat Cap here is Slade, but honestly I'm not sure.

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1. Overwhelming Hulk with a flurry of punches, he had just caught him off guard and ambushed him, but honestly, I don't think anyone else here could replicate that.
2. One shotting Juggernaut, this was done with his shield and Juggernaut had just been injured, but so was Steve.

Perception

Reaction

Gallery

For the first scan, we show Captain America's normal level. He's the type of guy that can jump right into an army full of people, untagged. The level of speed this would take is absolutely astonishing, and while most could replicate it, it's still pretty damn impressive.

The second is arguably Cap's best speed feat. Captain America is able to casually flip through computer targeted automatic fire and point blank range, only being nicked by a single bullet. We know Captain America didn't outpace the system considering he was tagged, but who can blame him? It's a targeting system by the most elite private organization in the world, possibly built by the smartest man in the world. However, the only two likely scenarios at this point is either: Captain America is literally the luckiest guy in the entire world, or he was able to bullet time point blank automatic fire. Given the level of his other feats, this isn't a stretch by any means.

Combat

Travel

This is another one I think Cap has in the bag, I'm not sure anyone else has a feat quite like this:

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Captain America is able to cover 8-9 blocks within a couple seconds. Google states that the average mile is about 20 blocks, I'll go ahead and assume it was only 8 blocks for lowballing sake, which is 0.4 of a mile. Let's go ahead and say it was 10 seconds, it was arguably less but I want to be fair. For him to cover 0.4 miles in 10 seconds, he would need to run at a speed of about 144 miles an hour which remember, is the low end of the feat.

I'll get to the rest tomorrow!

Yeah, Ultimate Captain America is obviously the most powerful super soldier. He might outright be the most powerful street leveler in general. I don't think he sweeps every single category here, but he does sweep a few of them, and he's high-level enough in the others that it doesn't really matter. I'm undecided on who would win in a fight between him and Solid Snake, both are capable of insane things. But physically speaking, Captain America has the edge. I think I'm just going to disregard him for this comparison, because there's no point in including him when he so obviously wins.

So after Ultimate Captain America, I think Solid Snake is the most physically well-rounded super soldier. He has some really high end speed feats of fighting and moving imperceptibly and having a whole fight scene in under 1 second, and he regularly fights other super soldiers who have the same type of feats. He has several feats of outright bullet timing, including the hypersonic Railgun projectile when he was just an old man, and outright bullet timing is very rare. In their entire publication histories, Batman and Deathstroke only have one or two showings of definitive bullet timing. Solid Snake surpasses that with only three games, and with a composite Solid Snake, who is a downright effortless bullet timer and can even perform a missile hop, he literally surpasses Spider-Man speed and agility.

Canon Snake:

Composite Snake:

Snake also has extremely high-end strength feats. But by consistency, and overall as well, strength has got to go to Chris Redfield.

Can't Master Chief casually flip a tank over? And Agents of Shield kinda confirmed mcu Cap pushed a bulldozer across a football field in less than 15 seconds, those things reach 20+ ton in weight

1. The tanks are confirmed to weigh 60+ tons from manuals, so it's most likely game mechanics.
2. That's a pretty clear outlier.

Geralt.

Ult. Cap.

Probably but keep in mind flipping something is different from lifting. It's not a game mechanic if you believe in WOG in which the franchise director stated it wasn't a game mechanic and Spartan were actually capable of flipping tanks. But I take it with a grain of salt.

@elijah_c_washington: I think you'll be interested. If you have any other strength feats for me to do cals on from deathstroke, feel free to send them.

Post Crisis

Assuming Slade had the physic of a special forces solider prior to enhancements. Let's take Navy SEAL candidates for example, who can deadlift between 1.5 and 2.33 times their body weight. In that case using his 225Ibs weight he should be able to lift 337.5-524.25 Ibs. With his enhancements he should be able to lift 1350-2097Ibs which is quadruple his prior strength.

Another interesting note is stated slade's speed has been quadruple, if this was true (though it feels like an hyperbole) he would be sprinting around 60mph which is 4x the average man's running speed.

Then again Deathstroke was stated to be nearly tenfold stronger then he was previously in The DC Comics Encyclopedia, which confuses me but if that's the case then he should be deadlift, 3375-5243Ibs/1.6-2.6 tons.

New 52

Okay the first feat done by slade.

Using his forearm as a measuring stick the rock is the length of 2.5 his forearm, while the height is 1.5 x his forearm and lets assume width is the same as height.

I've calculated that average human forearm is 3.7 times shorter than his height and slade stand 6.4 or 193 centimeters. With this I mange to calculate his forearm length which is 52 cm. Using with the previous said numbers we get the dimensions of the rock which is:

Length = 130cm Height and Width= 78 cm

And calculating the volume of the rock

130 x 78 x 78 = 790,920 cm

The rock he lifted is likely a sandstone which has a density of 2.0-2.6 g/cm. So the rock could weigh from 1581.84 kgs to 2056.392 kgs/ 1.5-2 tons.

Keep in mind he didn't fully lifted the thing off his back.

For the second feat I mange to get dimension of the block of concrete he lifted (assuming it is concrete). Using slade's 193 cm height as a measuring stick again:

Length = Slade's height = 193cm

Height = 12 x less in height = 16cm

Width = 2.4 shorter 80.4 cm

With these dimension I can calculate the volume which is

193 * 16 * 80.4 = 248275.2 cm

Considering concrete density is usually around 150 lb/ft3 which translate to 2.4 g/cm3 slade lifted

248275.2 * 2.4 = 595860.48 grams = 595.86 kg = 0.66 tons

If anyone is curious on the physical feats on Master Chief or Halo Spartans then check my Cav out. It's a big post.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/sci-fi-tourny-round-3-amethystgravity-vs-dottiestm-1872599/

In short Master chief and most Spartans multi-tonners who can lift over 8 tons, run over 100mph, punch through tanks, have hypersonic reflexes and etc. I honestly think chief has the best physical stats going by feats and cals. Mostly due to the mjolnir armor that enhances him which makes it unfair for the rest of the super soldiers

@jinn: I don't exactly agree with your analysis on the some of the Ult. cap feats. There's something I like to point out which I keep seeing in a lot of thread. In the scan where you claimed Captain America matching strength with spiderman, if you look in the ground you'll see mud trails from cap's feet while hardly any one spiderman which indicates spiderman was overpowering cap. Also I think there was something else why spiderman wasn't going all out but I need to read that comic again.

@elijah_c_washington: also I wanted to specify something with the OP, technically characters like Agent Venom and Sephiroth are results of a super soldier program. Are we doing just strength and speed enhanciles or can we use them

@elijah_c_washington: I might make a case for Chris and Leon after the release of RE Vendetta.

They are going to get some cool feats in this movie, it seems.

I'll check this out.

@a_marques: Chris and Leon get curbstomped by Solid Snake! >:O

Can Solid Snake survive Ashley screaming his name non-stop for an entire day? No? Then he stands no chance.

@a_marques: That makes me want to play RE4.

@elijah_c_washington: Elijah and I have been debating Chris Redfield's strength in a PM, and he wants to bring it to an open thread. Basically, what it's coming down to that he doesn't think any gameplay at all can count as feats. Only pure cutscenes, that's it, end of story. My problem with that, is that we're talking about a GAME, we can't judge games by the rules and standards of an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MEDIUM. Games tell their narratives through gameplay, that's the whole point. When Chris has a fight or battle, it transitions into gameplay. He almost never has fights in cutscenes, for obvious reasons. So by excluding everything other than pure cutscenes... Chris literally doesn't have any fights. So he's featless. What is even the point in debating him if he's featless? We HAVE to give him these feats just so he has something to debate with.

I understand that there's a limit of course. Gameplay is variable and up to the player. So here's my rule of thumb. Animations count, because they are static and set in stone by the developers. Player input does not change the results of animations. Animations basically includes QTEs and context sensative inputs.

Is this agreeable?

To clarify, @nickzambuto and I were talking in a PM about Chris Redfield's strength in comparison to that of other characters in the super soldier area. I think he's about around 616 Captain America's physical level, meanwhile Nick has been comparing him to Spider-Man. This debate consists of much more than talk about the validity of QTE feats, but I will go ahead and address that part first.

Part 1: Let's Talk About those QTE Feats

Elijah and I have been debating Chris Redfield's strength in a PM, and he wants to bring it to an open thread. Basically, what it's coming down to that he doesn't think any gameplay at all can count as feats. Only pure cutscenes, that's it, end of story. My problem with that, is that we're talking about a GAME, we can't judge games by the rules and standards of an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MEDIUM.

Chris' feats of destroying the J'avo or Molded are perfectly usable in my opinion. I still have a problem with those large over-the-top QTEs in which Chris punches a boulder through the air or overpowers a sea monster because feats on that level are present nowhere else but within themselves as well as numerous time better than any of his other strength feats. You're gonna have to a better job at addressing that rather than rephrasing my entire argument.

Games tell their narratives through gameplay, that's the whole point. When Chris has a fight or battle, it transitions into gameplay. He almost never has fights in cutscenes, for obvious reasons. So by excluding everything other than pure cutscenes... Chris literally doesn't have any fights. So he's featless. What is even the point in debating him if he's featless? We HAVE to give him these feats just so he has something to debate with.

He's far from featless if we're only discussing the validity of one or two feats, which is just about what we're doing. What else is there besides the boulder punch, again? This really isn't making any sense to me.

I'm not "inflating" anything. The animations are in the game. It is not me "inflating" anything, it's in the game.

Applying all of a character's best feats would be inflating the character regardless of what medium they're from, more often than not at least. I'm not denying that it's in the game but consistency is a concept that affects lots of mediums.

They are way better than any other feats, because he HAS no other feats. Fights don't take place in cutscenes, they take place in gameplay. That's because it's a game. The only thing people do in cutscenes is talk, when a battle begins, it transitions to gameplay. Of COURSE all Chris's feats will be in gameplay.

Chris does have feats outside of gameplay, for the record. He's fought both Leon and Wesker in cutscenes in both Resident Evil 5 and 6, and both of those fights showcase his general abilities quite well. We're also not just talking about cutscenes but the rest of the gameplay and other supplementary material like the animated movies.

Part #2: Chris Redfield's Strength Relative to that of other Super Soldiers

But the J'avo are heavily bullet resistant, if you play the game. I provided the screencap quote above to prove it.

Even acknowledging all that stuff about critical headshots, I'm still not seeing the type of evidence I'm looking for. Are they bulletproof, or are they bullet resistant? And if the latter is true, to what extent? The screencap quote is not really proving anything to me by itself because from where I'm standing it could've been made in reference to their healing factors and not their actual durability. I have played some of the games and I vaguely remember there usually being blood after you cut or shoot most enemies, so I'm still going to request some durability feats for each of the fodder types you've chosen to reference, namely the J'avo, the Molded and those winged BOWs I don't know the name of.

When you put it like that, it sounds less impressive. But I think I would also be in my right mind to point out that for all their high-end lifting feats, characters like Batman and Captain America and Deathstroke do not go around obliterating every fodder they punch with each casual strike.

Well, it's not like it's exactly in character for Captain America or Deathstroke to go around obliterating everyone they hit. That would be an uncharacteristically immoral thing for Steve to do and when it comes to Deathstroke, Slade is someone who only really goes all out when he needs to. I'll post some actual strength feats shortly, but here's a panel from as early on as The Judas Contract in which Slade states he could rip Nightwing apart but wouldn't unless he was forced to:

Slade has also explicitly held back against literally every single member of the Titans including Nightwing in particular on more than one occasion, his wife and children, Cassandra Cain, Green Arrow, Bronze Tiger, Deadshot and even Batman himself in Detective Comics (1937-) #710.

The lowest character who is written this way, where they have to consciously hold back at all times because their true strikes would kill everyone they fight, is Spider-Man. That is a trait of Spider-Man, where he has to hold back and pull his punches, because he would kill everybody norm

I don't think a character has to be as strong as Spider-Man to be strong enough to consciously hold back against lesser opponents out of fear of killing them, because they usually just aren't. Luther Strode is another enhanced type character, although he got his powers from what is essentially magic rather than the more common scientific mishap character, but he is still much, much weaker than Spider-Man. Keep that in mind while you look over the following scan that shows he is forced to flick police officers in the head in order to knock them out but not kill them:

Peter, in comparison to Luther Strode, has striking feats like busting Scorpion's terminal velocity proof armor, one-shotting literal giants and punching Iron Man 2099 downward through a building and causing its collapse to his name. In terms of the holding-back-as-to-not-kill-people thing, Deathstroke is someone that quite clearly possesses this trait despite being nowhere close to as as strong as Spider-Man, similar to Chris in that respect. As far as I'm aware, Cap can kill with a punch as well but I don't really know enough about him to tell you if he's done it to anyone particularly durable.

Batman, Captain America, Deathstroke, they don't have this trait, they are never stated to be pulling their punches at all times. Yet when they punch a fodder in the head, he doesn't explode. So I would like to point out that their is a big difference, between destroying a bulletproof material, which is a vague statement, and causing a head to EXPLODE by punching it. Characters like Batman, Captain America, Deathstroke, they have the strength to potentially kill a man in one strike if they wanted, they can crack somebody's skull, but they can't obliterate an entire head. It's obvious that the way Chris regularly fights shows a lot more power than the way Batman, Captain America, and Deathstroke regularly fight.

I am going to table Batman and Captain America for now as I don't know as much about the two of them combined as I know about Deathstroke. The Judas Contract scan from earlier helps display Slade's typical mindset; again, he only really takes fights seriously when he needs to. That being said, from when we have seen Slade cut loose it's easy to tell he's fully capable of feats equivalent or superior to Chris' feats of exploding heads, even if we're talking about bulletproof heads and not those of regular humans. For example, Possum is a regenerative metahuman capable of exploding another regenerative metahuman's head with a punch, yet Slade more than overpowered him whilst seizing, bleeding out on the floor after being tortured:

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Overpowering Possum from that position and under those conditions is proof enough by itself, but it's taken another step further by Slade first catching his own blade and gripping it so hard it began to crack around his fingers, then pushing it back handle-first through Possum's skull which caused the entire top of his head to explode outwards. Now, that's just basic evidence of him being able to explode a skull in general, but I have a few more feats of him performing above and beyond that level that I would like to bring your attention to:

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Example #1: Deathstroke awakes from death, tears his way out of a heavy steel drawer, punches into one of the government doctors in an instant, throws everybody else around all at the same time and escapes.

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Example #2: An unarmed Deathstroke goes all murder-hobo on some subhumans, ripping one of their jaws off with an uppercut, snapping their leader's neck with one arm and punching down onto the rest, although he wasn't destroying entire body parts on every single one of them.

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Example #3: Deathstroke breaks free of his metahuman handcuffs with a paperclip, slashes a man's face apart while simultaneously choking another one out, throws a metal peg so hard it embeds itself into a thick prison wall and forces the last man's head backward through the peg with his forearm in one clean motion, and that's going through the man's helmet as well.

Example #4: Deathstroke throws one of his non-Promethium swords through a fully geared man and into the stone rubble behind him hard enough for bits and pieces to be scattered throughout the air as well as blood being sprayed out through the opposite side of the rubble.

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Examples #5-7: Deathstroke kicks his way outwards through a car in one go; without even trying Slade sends a heavy steel door off its hinges sending pieces of the walls into the air; kicks a dumpster at a man so hard it kills him, crumpling it up to about half its original size in the process.

If you're still willing to argue Chris being stronger, I really need to know to what exact extent you're talking about. You seem to have switched stances on him being a 10 tonner but you're still likening him to Spider-Man, meaning I'm gonna need some clarification.

It's not me deciding, it's science. The tensile strength of steel is something like, 30 tons per square inch. Any instance of a peak human doing what you are describing, is obviously WIS by default. Not even Chris can break steel with a punch.

If that's a limitation you want to set for peak humans then I can agree with that, although I don't think it should go unmentioned that we're not always talking about those specific numbers. Do you think limitation should still hold firm when talking about enhanced characters like Cap who has bent a reinforced steel door in half with a wounded shoulder, or Deathstroke who has bent, broken, snapped, punched, kicked and stabbed through various types of metal on a number of separate occasions? Lastly, calcs aren't canon, but when we do end up relying on IRL numbers this heavily we still don't need a Spider-Man level character to break steel. It's not hard at all; on top of everything else that's been mentioned we're talking about a character who has simply shattered much stronger metals such as carbonadium (although there could be some context I'm forgetting surrounding that specific feat).

None of this really means anything unless you're implying you think Deathstroke is nearly as strong as the likes of Donna Troy and Gorilla Grodd and Bizarro. Peak human characters can fight and "stun" opponents much more powerful than them using skill, "stunning" an opponent isn't a strength feat, that's why I'm more interested in pure showings of strength , which doesn't include effecting mid-tiers or powerhouses.

Yea, I've already agreed they're as pure but I'm still not convinced they have to be - they're all still incredible strength feats in their own right despite the skill element and you really shouldn't have to try to downplay them like that. Chris isn't nearly as strong as anything concerning 100 tonners himself so there isn't much reason to talk about all this in the first place - I'll admit this was my mistake for bringing those feats up in the first place.

For example, I would use Chris's boxing combination where he KTFO Wesker as a feat of strength. But that's because they do appear not too far apart in terms of strength. Deathstroke obviously isn't a fraction as strong as Donna Troy, it doesn't really matter if he's able to phase her, we know it has nothing to do with strength because Deathstroke doesn't strike in the hundred ton class.

Well then, let's just compare Chris' feat of knocking out Wesker in a QTE to other similar feats the likes of Captain America and Deathstroke have performed. First off, Steve had the skill and striking power to bring down Nuke who is probably a little more durable than Wesker. Additionally, Slade has outright OHKO Risk who appeared to have been performing at around the 10 tonner level on the previous page no less:

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At this point it's on you to provide the Wesker feat you mentioned so that we may really compare how strong all three of these characters are side by side. You should have a lot to think about when responding so I hope this debate continues.

Strength

• Lifting
• Striking

Ult Cap

Speed

• Perception
• Reaction
• Combat
• Travel

Pre Flashpoint Deathstroke or 616 Cap

Toughness

• Durability
• Pain Tolerance
• Regeneration

Ult Cap

@elijah_c_washington: So let me get this straight. You're saying that when it comes to Chris, you don't believe his high end feats are consistent? It's not about gameplay mechanics or anything, you think context sensitive animations are legit. You just don't think things like the boulder feat are consistent? And you don't believe that obliterating monsters with every punch is outside the realm for Deathstroke? Is this correct? I'm just trying to figure out exactly what our point of contention is, because in the PM, I was under the impression you were saying gameplay animations and quicktime events are noncanon.

If this is the case, then let me start with the argument of whether or not super soldier tier characters have the strength to obliterate monsters with single punches.

First of all, J'avo and Molded are not bulletproof. They are bullet resistant. Although it takes quite a fair amount of firepower to kill a J'avo, they're by far the most resistant standard enemy in the franchise. The original zombies could take anywhere from 5-8 handgun bullets before dying, the upgraded Ganado and Majini were strong enough to take bullets right to the face and only be stunned, and the J'avo were strong enough that Piers initially thought bullets weren't even phasing them.

Although of course Piers was wrong, or he exaggerated, because enough firepower definitely kills them. The thing is that Chris and Piers had some heavy weapons like rifles and machine guns as their standard equipment, and it still takes quite a bit of firepower to actually kill a J'avo. That's why melee is so important in RE6, I'm not exaggerating when I say that at least 50% of your kills in the game will be with melee, and 25% will be with explosives.

Molded are much weaker than J'avo. But in the same scene where Chris obliterates one, you can see two of them surviving a grenade and only losing an arm. Chris's punch in this scene objectively does more damage than a grenade just did.

You have brought up the fact that it's possible Captain America holds back his strength in order to avoid obliterating his enemies. Okay. This is just a theory. Since there's no actual proof that he could completely obliterate a monster's head with a regular and casual punch if he wanted to, your theory doesn't really prove anything.

As for Deathstroke, you brought up a statement where he claims he could rip Nightwing apart if he wanted to. Okay. Let's disregard the fact that Slade is a known manipulator and strategist and disregard the possibility of this boast being a psychological attack, which Slade is known to use frequently. Let's disregard that possibility because it is a copout. Let's also disregard the fact that "rip you apart" is a common hyperbolic phrase that people use all the time as a threat, let's disregard that and assume Slade meant it completely literally. I'm giving you all the benefit of the doubt here. And, let's disregard the fact that in his thousands of appearances, Slade has never ever actually made good on this boast and ripped anybody apart or punched anybody into mush with one blow. Let's disregard the fact that, even though he's been bloodlusted plenty of times, faced plenty of different opponents many of which he would have no reason to hold back on, yet he still never actually replicated what Chris's most basic, casual punches do all the time, let's disregard that and disregard his lack of actual feats and just take this one statement completely at face value. I'm really highballing Slade and giving him all the benefit of the doubt that I possibly can here... and even with all this benefit of the doubt, it's so obvious that Slade's statement still isn't on par with what Chris does casually and on a regular basis. I imagine that Deathstroke could "rip Nightwing apart" meaning limb from limb, the way Bane does it to fodder. But could he literally pin Nightwing to the floor with his foot, and rip his entire body in half with his bare hands? Or perhaps rip his head off? That's quite a significant leap from just "ripping Dick apart" which is vague and doesn't even directly imply the removal of limbs. No, I absolutely can not picture Deathstroke ripping a human being in half with his bare hands or ripping somebody's head off. Ripping off an arm is the most benefit of the doubt I can give, because that's what Bane does.

But Chris can do it to Super Soldiers.

So to repeat, just to be as crystal clear as I can possibly be, I am giving Deathstroke a LOT of benefit of the doubt in assuming that he could rip Nightwing's arms off. "I could rip you apart" might not be literal, and even if it was literal, it does not imply ripping off limbs, just ripping in general. But to highball Deathstroke and say he can rip a peak humans arm off, that is orders of magnitude below ripping a Super Soldier's entire head off, or ripping a Super Soldier in half at the torso.

It's funny you should bring up Luther Strode, because the way Redfield regularly operates and his regular fighting style is much more similar to him than any of these basic super soldier level characters.

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As you can see, the way Chris Redfield regularly operates is the same way Luther Strode regularly operates, and most people can see it's pretty obvious that Luther Strode is stronger than Captain America or Deathstroke. Why is Chris held to a different standard even though his basic, casual power is exactly the same? Is it because he's less popular? Is it a preconceived idea that characters from other mediums can not be as strong as comic book characters? Is it because Chris is supposed to be a normal human with no enhancements so it's illogical for him to be this strong? Or is it all three working together to create sort of a cult of lowballing?

I'd like to point out that destroying people and even enhanced individuals in hand-to-hand is just a common, base feat for both Chris and Luther. Something they do all the time, it's their base, their regular. They both have high end feats that are even stronger. So far, you're having a hard enough time proving that Slade's very best can match Chris's base. Never mind launching a giant boulder and overpowering giants. Isn't that enough proof that Chris is significantly more powerful? And then Slade can be a lot faster? And then they are similarly experienced and tactically aware? That sounds like a fair compromise to me. They're on the same tier of skill with Slade being a better martial artist and Chris being a superior weapons expert.

Slade vs Possum

Looking at this scan (https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6071125/), Possum can only be a level of strength below Chris because he is doing to an ordinary woman what Chris can do to monsters and Super Soldiers. And even if I don't take into account the fact that they are drastically more imposing enemies, Slade absolutely did not overpower Possum straight up. You don't think it's possible that the best, most trained assassin in the world, his vastly superior skill was a factor in reversing the sword back into Possum? What exactly Slade did is left very vague, this isn't enough to definitively prove Slade can replicate every feat of Possum's and also surpass them by an order of magnitude in order to perform them on Super Soldiers like Chris does. Chris has pure strength feats. Slade relies on ABC logic.

You wanna see what Chris can do with ABC logic? One punch across the jaw breaks Wesker's face and knocks him TF out. His healing factor gets him up again almost instantly, but this means one good punch from Chris packs almost as much power as an RPG missile, or 20 tons of steel girders falling onto Wesker's head from several stories up.

Chris tackled Wesker at one point and forced him backwards many feet. If we scale Chris to Wesker like you're scaling Slade to Possum, then Wesker does a lot more with strikes than all three of these guys combined. I just did a quick Google search on the tensile strength of steel, and it told me that "A36 steel in plates, bars, and shapes with a thickness of less than 8 in (203 mm) has a minimum yield strength of 36,000 psi (250 MPa) and ultimate tensile strength of 58,000–80,000 psi (400–550 MPa)." Wesker put his hand through steel plates easily. Of course it is impossible to know the exact grade of steel and also the exact thickness of it, but even taking the very low end that is 18 ton strike force (which is arguably greater than Spider-Man, and consistent with other Tyrants) (Wesker actually breaks through steel. That's very different than Slade and Chris knocking down steel doors. I just thought it was necessary to make that distinction)

So go ahead and scale Slade to Possum. Wesker makes Possum look like a... well a possum.

Slade at the morgue

Let's disregard the fact that Slade was in a berserk, bloodlusted state and operating with adrenaline and unusual strength. All you showed me is him kicking out a steel drawer, killing one orderly, and tossing four untrained regular doctors, one of who was a woman and another who was an old man. Come on. You have to do a lot better than that. First of all, Chris has already easily kicked down a much stronger steel door than that steel bin, and I'm not even going to post the gif because I know Slade has kicked down an even bigger steel door than that. Why not use that feat instead? It's much more impressive. Are you seriously all that wowed by Slade overpowering a woman, an old man, and two doctors? This just isn't on par with Chris, or even all that impressive for a superhuman, there isn't anything else to say.

You want to see a high-end feat from Chris? The Ogroman is a building sized BOW impervious to gunfire. Even a heavy APC canon impacts the Ogroman like a barrage of bee stings and fails to pierce its skin. This means the Ogroman's hide is far stronger than concrete, possibly as resilient as steel.

In order to kill it, Chris jumps onto the Ogroman's back while it's thrashing around, and deadlifts thousands of pounds of muscle and metal through its steel-like hide, you can even see all the blood gushing out as Chris rips open the Ogroman's back and literally pulls out its internal organs. So this is lifting thousands of pounds, while simultaneously breaking through a bulletproof, almost steel-like barrier.

Slade vs Subhumans

Are these creatures enhanced? Slade isn't really doing anything impressive if they aren't... I mean okay he punched one of their jaws off. Even if they aren't enhanced, that's still impressive... but not impressive next to Chris. It's just low-level superhuman, a significant difference compared to someone like Batman, but not a massive difference... AKA the exact level Slade is written at 90% of the time. He's not supposed to be this massively superhuman beast that goes around obliterating people with punches.

Either way, nothing very amazing is happening in these scans.

You want to see a high-end feat from Chris? A Godzilla-sized sea monster snatches Chris with its tree-trunk tentacle and tries to pull him underwater, and Chris literally overpowers it and lands back on the boat with a shoulder roll.

And in RE6, another Godzilla-sized monster got Chris in its grasp and tried to crush him, which he withstood for over a minute. He was even struggling against the monster and trying to pry its fingers open the whole time. That is uncanny endurance.

Slade at the prison

What do you think the pin in Slade's mouth is supposed to mean? He's all captured and the Warden brags about how he's tightly locked up, then Slade says no and reveals some kind of pin in his mouth... he obviously didn't break those restraints with brute strength, he (much more cleverly) somehow removed a vital pin and was able to remove the restraints with ease.

Once again nothing particularly amazing is happening here. Deathstroke smacks a guard with a chain and seems to dislocate his jaw, but a normal man swinging a gigantic chain could probably do that. He smashes people up but not in any unrealistic manner. He's not caving in skulls or turning around heads. Nothing very impressive is happening here... he throws the peg into the wall but... is that really it?

You want to see a high-end feat for Chris? He's fighting a 40-foot long, 20,000 pound giant invisible snake and forces it to retreat into the vents, and then Chris just immediately crawls in after it without even hesitating. And the snake pops out and bites Chris by the leg trying to pull him away, but Chris opens fire until it retreats again, and then Chris is totally fine, his leg wasn't ripped off like it should have been, he's not even hurt. Then, when he reaches the end of the tunnel, the snake comes out and bites Chris again, he goes tumbling across the room and smashes all the furniture, then the snake constricts him and tries to squeeze the life out of him. A regular, 7 foot long snake can constrict with over 1,000 pounds of force. That's why you should never try to pull it open, and should instead grab it by the head to unravel it. But this snake weighs 20,000 pounds and tunnels through the earth like air. It's probably constricting with at least it's own body weight... and Chris breaks the constriction with brute force, then lifts the entire snake over his head to escape.

Slade throwing his sword

Here we reach a point of contention we've had issues with in the past. I don't believe that any feats involving weapons can be attributed to strength. The power of the weapon itself is such a wildcard and completely unquantifiable. For example, Captain America can use his shield to stagger the Hulk. Wolverine can use his claws to cut up Thor. Whatever sword Slade was using in that scan obviously isn't as powerful as vibranium or adamantium, but it is still an unpredictable factor that makes the feat meaningless in terms of strength. If that was, like, a dull object I'd be really impressed. But perhaps the only reason that happened is due to the sharpness of the sword. How much do we attribute to Slade and how much do we attribute to his equipment? It's unquantifiable and therefore useless.

Tell me what is more impressive. Throwing a small and sharp object hard enough to pierce armor and bust a wall? Or throwing a dull object, that also weighs 200 pounds, hard enough to destroy two superhumans. This object itself also happens to be a superhuman. Chris picks superhumans up and over his head, and uses them as projectiles against each other hard enough to destroy all three instantly. Unfortunately gifs don't have sound, so you miss the hard "SPLASH" sound effects signifying that he's literally exploding them with this throw.

But I already showed this as an example of Chris's base strength. This is a regular melee move for him and it isn't even hard. You want to see a high-end feat for Chris? He's able to halt a rampaging Napad on a dime, and then completely shatter its bulletproof armor with one knee strike (only explosions or firing on its weak points can destroy the Napad's armor otherwise. Chris does it with just his knee). How is it that Chris, who has no viral enhancements, is so much stronger than the BOWs made for nothing but brute strength? It's literally a monster gorilla. The regular C-Virus infected are superhumans, and the Napad is made from multiple C-Virus corpses fusing together and joining their strength, and Chris all by himself STILL overpowers it bluntly.

The guy held open a bulkhead door long enough for Piers to climb up the rope with his bare hands. This is a massively superhuman feat. It takes all of Chris's heart to overpower this machine in order to save his friend, which is interesting considering he's done all that other shit relatively casually.

Car, steel door and dumpster

At last, you've posted feats that are impressive.

Well, kicking out a car door and kicking in some kind of steel door is equalled by Chris also kicking in a steel door.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-20-2014/iFQtmv.gif

But the door Slade kicked in during his first appearance is much larger than both, so I would have just used that feat if I were you.

And the dumpster feat, which is very recent, might be Slade's best strength feat ever. That thing weighs like 500 pounds and Slade kicked it with such force that it killed another person. Not only that, but as you mentioned, he crumpled the steel. I don't know which is more impressive, launching 500 pounds like a projectile or crumpling steel. Just a really nice, superhuman feat.

Here's Chris launching a 150 ton boulder over a 10 meter gap with punches.

It's interesting how the boulder doesn't budge even while Chris is pushing as hard as he can... but from the very first PUNCH, Chris has the entire boulder rocking. His final strongest uppercut rolls it, and then his tackle launches it 10 meters. Chris is officially 6'1, and notice how that boulder dwarves him. The most popular calculation puts that boulder at 151 tons.

So Deathstroke launched 500 pounds. Redfield launched something at least 200,000 pounds... does this mean Chris is literally a thousand times stronger than Slade? No, it obviously took some work for Chris to launch that boulder, he couldn't have done what he did with a single kick which is what Slade did. But he's still a couple orders of magnitude stronger just to have accomplished it at all... this, neither Luther Strode nor Spider-Man could likely replicate.

And after all that, guess what? I haven't even gotten into the comic book feats. I've barely mentioned Chris's durability which is even more insane than his strength. I haven't even gotten into scaling from Leon and all of his retarded feats. Like it or not, I can go all day. That means this is consistent.

Actually, I just stumbled across this feat that I think proves Chris could replicate with a punch, what Slade does with a kick. He punches a steel shutter out of sheer anger and caves it in.

So I just want to recap the feats for Chris I've listed thus far, because I'm sure this is a lot to take in.

• Basic punches obliterate Super Soldier skulls. This is Chris's casual, baseline level.
• He can rip Super Soldiers' heads off and rip them in half at the torso.
• He can pick Super Soldiers up over his head and use them as projectiles against each other.
• He broke Wesker's face with one hard blow.
• He deadlifted thousands of pounds of muscle and metal, through bulletproof material.
• He wrestled with a tree-trunk tentacle from a Godzilla sized monster in midair trying to pull him underwater, and eventually overpowered it.
• He overpowered a 20,000 pound giant snake's constriction through brute force.
• Haos, the most powerful creature ever in the series period, also Godzilla sized, crushed Chris in its grip for over a minute straight and Chris fought back the entire time. He couldn't escape, but when he was finally freed he was not hurt.
• He's still stronger alone than the fusion of multiple superhumans into an armored gorilla monster.
• He held open a bulkhead door going into lockdown through sheer heart.
• He launched a hundred ton boulder.

Chris really only has significant feats to pull from two games, RE5 and RE6. He wasn't a Super Soldier back in the classic games, and although he starred in the recent CGI movie, he actually had no strength showings in that film at all (that doesn't mean he had low showings, it just means he didn't ever do anything involving strength. He fought with weapons most of the time). So I think that is enough feats to call him consistent. If not, there are a couple good feats from the classic games, a ton of outrageous showings from the comics, scaling from Leon and Jake and Wesker.

I never said that Chris is as strong as Spider-Man. You listed all of Spider-Man's highest end feats to counter, and I do not think Chris can replicate those. What I said is that Chris is on par with Spider-Man's typical output. As in, 90% of the time, Peter is holding back. And he's still amazingly strong, but he has the ability to output a LOT more when he needs to. Chris is on par with your typical Spider-Man, when he's fighting somebody like Kraven or the Vulture. Not dead serious Spider-Man like when he fights Venom. But even a holding back Spider-Man is magnitudes above the strength of Deathstroke. And that's okay because like I said, Deathstroke is faster and they are both tactical machines. I think they even out ultimately. But Chris is definitely stronger. His showings are too outrageous.

If that's a limitation you want to set for peak humans then I can agree with that, although I don't think it should go unmentioned that we're not always talking about those specific numbers. Do you think limitation should still hold firm when talking about enhanced characters like Cap who has bent a reinforced steel door in half with a wounded shoulder, or Deathstroke who has bent, broken, snapped, punched, kicked and stabbed through various types of metal on a number of separate occasions? Lastly, calcs aren't canon, but when we do end up relying on IRL numbers this heavily we still don't need a Spider-Man level character to break steel. It's not hard at all; on top of everything else that's been mentioned we're talking about a character who has simply shattered much stronger metals such as carbonadium (although there could be some context I'm forgetting surrounding that specific feat).

I briefly mentioned this when talking about Wesker. Redfield, Deathstroke, Captain America, even Batman. They all have feats of bending or warping steel. That's... well it isn't exactly fine but it's tolerable. But outright breaking steel? As in, reaching its ultimate tensile strength? None of them have that kind of feat. That takes anywhere from 36,000 PSI to 80,000 PSI depending the grade and thickness. You know who does have that feat? Wesker.

Well then, let's just compare Chris' feat of knocking out Wesker in a QTE to other similar feats the likes of Captain America and Deathstroke have performed. First off, Steve had the skill and striking power to bring down Nuke who is probably a little more durable than Wesker. Additionally, Slade has outright OHKO Risk who appeared to have been performing at around the 10 tonner level on the previous page no less:

I'd say Chris did it a lot easier against Wesker than Steve did on Nuke. The whole thing about Nuke is that he's so durable, Captain America can not harm him. That is his greatest feat... than Captain America just got infuriated and knocked him out. So Cap's feat is surpassing himself?

Listen, Nuke is actually one of my favorite side villains, but I can't say I'm an expert on his feats. Wesker took RPGs and was barely stunned. At the end of the game he was infected with a virus that is extremely susceptible to fire, and then submerged in a volcano, but his own virus was so powerful that it did not put him down and he was still fighting. Is Nuke THAT durable?

And Slade oneshotted Risk with a flying kick to the jaw while Risk was off guard. Literally his most powerful possible kick, to the most sensitive part of the body (getting hit in the jaw rattles your brain), on an enemy who was unprepared and unbraced... if Slade just outright oneshotted a 10 tonner, I'd just call it WIS. But with all these factors, it actually makes perfect sense he did that. You cannot understate the difference between a sucker punch, and a punch while prepared. I could probably knock out Mike Tyson if he punched him while he was completely off guard. The difference a sneak attack makes can not be understated.

At this point it's on you to provide the Wesker feat you mentioned so that we may really compare how strong all three of these characters are side by side. You should have a lot to think about when responding so I hope this debate continues.

Yes, I'm glad you're being reasonable and showing a genuine interest in the discussion and learning, so I hope it continues as well.

@the_hajduk: Oh shit.

Is that a good oh shit or a bad oh shit?

Chris is a Beast man ...

He and Jill are the best Resident Evil characters imo.

Does every super soldiers count, or only the ones listed in this thread ?

@the_hajduk: I'm really not going to get invested if you're responding with that amount of text every time but I'll make due this first time around.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that when it comes to Chris, you don't believe his high end feats are consistent? It's not about gameplay mechanics or anything, you think context sensitive animations are legit. You just don't think things like the boulder feat are consistent? And you don't believe that obliterating monsters with every punch is outside the realm for Deathstroke? Is this correct? I'm just trying to figure out exactly what our point of contention is, because in the PM, I was under the impression you were saying gameplay animations and quicktime events are noncanon.

Yes, I don't think things like the boulder feat are consistent and that Deathstroke is a lot stronger than he has been given credit for throughout this discussion. I was never saying all aspects of gameplay were noncanon and that cutscenes were the only thing that really matter - I don't really know how you and Nick ended up with that. It's not that Chris is by any means unimpressive, it's just that he isn't that much more so compared to Captain America and Deathstroke.

Although of course Piers was wrong, or he exaggerated, because enough firepower definitely kills them. The thing is that Chris and Piers had some heavy weapons like rifles and machine guns as their standard equipment, and it still takes quite a bit of firepower to actually kill a J'avo. That's why melee is so important in RE6, I'm not exaggerating when I say that at least 50% of your kills in the game will be with melee, and 25% will be with explosives.

Sounds like to me that firearms and explosives are almost always used to wear down these enemies before Chris destroys them in melee. Is this not a factor?

Molded are much weaker than J'avo. But in the same scene where Chris obliterates one, you can see two of them surviving a grenade and only losing an arm. Chris's punch in this scene objectively does more damage than a grenade just did.

The Molded was clearly damaged by the grenade blast, and I don't think this shows Chris objectively hitting harder than a grenade at all for that reason. These aren't separate feats of a Molded surviving a grenade and Chris destroying one of their heads, these are both of those attacks landing on the same Molded back to back.

You have brought up the fact that it's possible Captain America holds back his strength in order to avoid obliterating his enemies. Okay. This is just a theory. Since there's no actual proof that he could completely obliterate a monster's head with a regular and casual punch if he wanted to, your theory doesn't really prove anything.

I was never arguing Cap in particular could replicate Chris' feats but it should be obvious he isn't always going all out against most average fodder, yes. Even Batman usually doesn't hit goons as hard as he can.

As for Deathstroke, you brought up a statement where he claims he could rip Nightwing apart if he wanted to. Okay. Let's disregard the fact that Slade is a known manipulator and strategist and disregard the possibility of this boast being a psychological attack, which Slade is known to use frequently. Let's disregard that possibility because it is a copout. Let's also disregard the fact that "rip you apart" is a common hyperbolic phrase that people use all the time as a threat, let's disregard that and assume Slade meant it completely literally.

I don't know where you've been but Deathstroke's threats are generally meant to be taken seriously. How often are you thinking Deathstroke intentionally makes threats he can't deliver on? He hasn't earned that master manipulator title simply by tricking people into thinking he's a lot stronger than he actually is, of all things. If this is meant to set some sort of tone you'll have to do better than listing off a number of less credible ideas.

I'm giving you all the benefit of the doubt here. And, let's disregard the fact that in his thousands of appearances, Slade has never ever actually made good on this boast and ripped anybody apart or punched anybody into mush with one blow.

I never said he did in the first place, because he doesn't have to replicate Chris' exact feats to rate among him strength-wise.

Let's disregard the fact that, even though he's been bloodlusted plenty of times, faced plenty of different opponents many of which he would have no reason to hold back on, yet he still never actually replicated what Chris's most basic, casual punches do all the time, let's disregard that and disregard his lack of actual feats and just take this one statement completely at face value.

What specific fights are you thinking of that work against my argument? I don't think you know about any Deathstroke that I don't already know of myself, and I'm confident I can breakdown whichever feat you provide and see how it relates to what's been said so far.

I'm really highballing Slade and giving him all the benefit of the doubt that I possibly can here... and even with all this benefit of the doubt, it's so obvious that Slade's statement still isn't on par with what Chris does casually and on a regular basis.

I wasn't using this scan to prove he was on Chris' level by itself, I was just using this as a precursor to my list of strength feats to give you a general idea of what you were about to see. A lot of what you've said so far is directly addressing things I didn't say and I'd really like for that to change in your next post.

I imagine that Deathstroke could "rip Nightwing apart" meaning limb from limb, the way Bane does it to fodder. But could he literally pin Nightwing to the floor with his foot, and rip his entire body in half with his bare hands? Or perhaps rip his head off? That's quite a significant leap from just "ripping Dick apart" which is vague and doesn't even directly imply the removal of limbs. No, I absolutely can not picture Deathstroke ripping a human being in half with his bare hands or ripping somebody's head off. Ripping off an arm is the most benefit of the doubt I can give, because that's what Bane does.

The phrase being vague doesn't really make that big of a difference since the point of the statement is still crystal clear in the first place: he can physically mess up Nightwing badly if he wanted to, and we're talking about gore stuff. You may need to back up your core reasoning for some sort of evidence because this isn't going anywhere. Ever since he became a confirmed metahuman in Marv Wolfman's Nuclear Winter storyline his strength, speed and durability were all heightened further still when Cheshire brought him back to life and restored his powers:

Gallery

His strength, speed and durability feats became better throughout the rest of the pre-Flashpoint universe, with other characters remarking on his improvements in comics as late as DC Universe: Last Will and Testament (2008). Moreover, his physical feats in the post-Flashpoint verse have been crazy impressive since the start and throughout multiple changes in writers those strength levels have stayed the same. Deathstroke has been referred to as an enhanced metahuman rather than an enhanced man or metahuman by themselves in as recently as last week's Superman (2016-) #31:

Proceed to bare with me because I have not yet exhausted Deathstroke's strength feats. You've said Deathstroke lacks showings in that department but he is in truth very strong and on a very consistent basis.

As you can see, the way Chris Redfield regularly operates is the same way Luther Strode regularly operates, and most people can see it's pretty obvious that Luther Strode is stronger than Captain America or Deathstroke. Why is Chris held to a different standard even though his basic, casual power is exactly the same? Is it because he's less popular? Is it a preconceived idea that characters from other mediums can not be as strong as comic book characters? Is it because Chris is supposed to be a normal human with no enhancements so it's illogical for him to be this strong? Or is it all three working together to create sort of a cult of lowballing?

First Nick is saying using the same set of standards I use for other characters for Chris and now you're suggesting I'm wrongly using a separate set of standards for Chris Redfield, going as far to non-directly accuse me of either judging this fight based on popularity (baseless), preconceived notions of characters from other mediums can't be as strong (I've been saying he's at least stronger than Captain America from the start), or just giving into general fallacious thinking that you really have no grounds to even ask me about. Yikes.

I'd like to point out that destroying people and even enhanced individuals in hand-to-hand is just a common, base feat for both Chris and Luther. Something they do all the time, it's their base, their regular. They both have high end feats that are even stronger. So far, you're having a hard enough time proving that Slade's very best can match Chris's base. Never mind launching a giant boulder and overpowering giants. Isn't that enough proof that Chris is significantly more powerful? And then Slade can be a lot faster? And then they are similarly experienced and tactically aware? That sounds like a fair compromise to me. They're on the same tier of skill with Slade being a better martial artist and Chris being a superior weapons expert.

I don't see why discussing the basics of why I think Chris isn't that much stronger than other super soldiers is provoking this type of reaction from you. Anyway, I guess we should table talking about those QTE feats until I prove Deathstroke could at least be placed somewhere around Redfield himself. I'm gonna skip anything you said about those 100 ton feats for now and focus on Chris' general feats in this post, gaining grounds to then ask about Chris' high-ends. Sound reasonable? Good, then let's move on. No offense but I'd really prefer you don't buff up your posts with filler like this. Also, I don't know what I did to make you think I'm having a hard time coming up with my evidence, and that's just kinda a rude comment considering its blatant inaccuracy.

Possum Feat:

Looking at this scan (https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6071125/), Possum can only be a level of strength below Chris because he is doing to an ordinary woman what Chris can do to monsters and Super Soldiers. And even if I don't take into account the fact that they are drastically more imposing enemies, Slade absolutely did not overpower Possum straight up. You don't think it's possible that the best, most trained assassin in the world, his vastly superior skill was a factor in reversing the sword back into Possum? What exactly Slade did is left very vague, this isn't enough to definitively prove Slade can replicate every feat of Possum's and also surpass them by an order of magnitude in order to perform them on Super Soldiers like Chris does. Chris has pure strength feats. Slade relies on ABC logic.

I generally know how to differentiate a skill feat from a strength feat. Coupled with the fact that Chris seems to only do this to monsters and super soldiers after previously damaging them with weapons, I think Possum's feat deserves more credit than you give it. This is also most definitely a strength feat on Slade's behalf, and nothing in the comic indicates this had really anything to do with his skill--in both the panels of him catching the sword and when he kills Possum we are explicitly looking at an act of strength. Moreover, Slade was weak, seizing and bleeding out on the floor, and then he forced the sword by its handle through Possum's head. Don't see how you've convinced yourself that that's not even worth a mention. metahuman. Possum is most clearly weaker than Deathstroke--this qualifies as another feat of Slade's in which he was shown to be much more powerful than the average metahuman. This feat consistent with others such as easily pulling apart handcuffs specifically designed to restrain him:

It's nothing less than explicit: Deathstroke is leaps and bounds ahead of Possum.

You wanna see what Chris can do with ABC logic? One punch across the jaw breaks Wesker's face and knocks him TF out. His healing factor gets him up again almost instantly, but this means one good punch from Chris packs almost as much power as an RPG missile, or 20 tons of steel girders falling onto Wesker's head from several stories up.

Similarly, Deathstroke was capable of crippling Koschei, the unkillable man with his strikes and then hit him hard enough to lay him out on the ground:

Gallery

Deathstroke was in Nth Metal in those scans but this was an issue written by Justin Jordan who responded to a fan on Twitter, saying he never really thought the Nth Metal did anything to amplify his strength, "although he has super strength innately." This was the same guy who wrote all of the Luther Strode books as well, and for what it's worth he clearly didn't seem to think that Slade and Chris/Luther level characters were all that far apart.

Slade at the Morgue:

Let's disregard the fact that Slade was in a berserk, bloodlusted state and operating with adrenaline and unusual strength.

Let's disregard the fact that all this really means is he wasn't holding back in this instance. The whole point of that "rip you apart" scan was that he holds back a lot, remember?

All you showed me is him kicking out a steel drawer, killing one orderly, and tossing four untrained regular doctors, one of who was a woman and another who was an old man. Come on. You have to do a lot better than that. First of all, Chris has already easily kicked down a much stronger steel door than that steel bin, and I'm not even going to post the gif because I know Slade has kicked down an even bigger steel door than that. Why not use that feat instead? It's much more impressive. Are you seriously all that wowed by Slade overpowering a woman, an old man, and two doctors? This just isn't on par with Chris, or even all that impressive for a superhuman, there isn't anything else to say.

What I'm wowed by is Slade tearing metal with his hands, which is something I have not seen Chris replicate. Otherwise I was just explaining the scans surrounding the feat because I like to use my scans in threes. Seriously. Chris has kicked down a steel door but he has never been completely trapped in a steel box he then tore his way out of from the inside with nothing but his own physical strength.

You want to see a high-end feat from Chris? The Ogroman is a building sized BOW impervious to gunfire. Even a heavy APC canon impacts the Ogroman like a barrage of bee stings and fails to pierce its skin. This means the Ogroman's hide is far stronger than concrete, possibly as resilient as steel.

In order to kill it, Chris jumps onto the Ogroman's back while it's thrashing around, and deadlifts thousands of pounds of muscle and metal through its steel-like hide, you can even see all the blood gushing out as Chris rips open the Ogroman's back and literally pulls out its internal organs. So this is lifting thousands of pounds, while simultaneously breaking through a bulletproof, almost steel-like barrier.

Frankly, this doesn't strike me as anything Slade couldn't do with about the same level of effort. Deathstroke's lifting strength has become very impressive over the last few years.

Prison and Subhumans:

Are these creatures enhanced? Slade isn't really doing anything impressive if they aren't... I mean okay he punched one of their jaws off. Even if they aren't enhanced, that's still impressive... but not impressive next to Chris. It's just low-level superhuman, a significant difference compared to someone like Batman, but not a massive difference... AKA the exact level Slade is written at 90% of the time. He's not supposed to be this massively superhuman beast that goes around obliterating people with punches.

Na, those guys weren't enhanced but they really don't have to be to work with my argument. Ripping one of their jaws off then goes to show the extent to which Slade holds back against other characters/fodder.

You want to see a high-end feat from Chris? A Godzilla-sized sea monster snatches Chris with its tree-trunk tentacle and tries to pull him underwater, and Chris literally overpowers it and lands back on the boat with a shoulder roll.

The creature quite clearly threw him back onto the ship. It's a great endurance feat but I don't think Chris actually overpowered anything in this gif.

And in RE6, another Godzilla-sized monster got Chris in its grasp and tried to crush him, which he withstood for over a minute. He was even struggling against the monster and trying to pry its fingers open the whole time. That is uncanny endurance.

What was the context around this? What was the monster trying to accomplish? It doesn't exactly look it's actively trying to crush him the whole time and failing, it looks like the monster is just successfully restraining him and Chris making no real progress in prying its fingers.

What do you think the pin in Slade's mouth is supposed to mean? He's all captured and the Warden brags about how he's tightly locked up, then Slade says no and reveals some kind of pin in his mouth... he obviously didn't break those restraints with brute strength, he (much more cleverly) somehow removed a vital pin and was able to remove the restraints with ease.

I never even mentioned Slade springing out of those chains because I was already aware of how he used that paperclip. Stop putting so many words into my mouth, please. It's not exactly fun to repeatedly address so much filler.

Once again nothing particularly amazing is happening here. Deathstroke smacks a guard with a chain and seems to dislocate his jaw, but a normal man swinging a gigantic chain could probably do that. He smashes people up but not in any unrealistic manner. He's not caving in skulls or turning around heads. Nothing very impressive is happening here... he throws the peg into the wall but... is that really it?

This feat is on Deathstroke's low-end, mind you. It shows he can smash a skull and that's all I used it show. I rely on other feats to show how he truly compares to Chris.

You want to see a high-end feat for Chris? He's fighting a 40-foot long, 20,000 pound giant invisible snake and forces it to retreat into the vents, and then Chris just immediately crawls in after it without even hesitating. And the snake pops out and bites Chris by the leg trying to pull him away, but Chris opens fire until it retreats again, and then Chris is totally fine, his leg wasn't ripped off like it should have been, he's not even hurt. Then, when he reaches the end of the tunnel, the snake comes out and bites Chris again, he goes tumbling across the room and smashes all the furniture, then the snake constricts him and tries to squeeze the life out of him. A regular, 7 foot long snake can constrict with over 1,000 pounds of force. That's why you should never try to pull it open, and should instead grab it by the head to unravel it. But this snake weighs 20,000 pounds and tunnels through the earth like air. It's probably constricting with at least it's own body weight... and Chris breaks the constriction with brute force, then lifts the entire snake over his head to escape.

Deathstroke does have high-end feats on this level to be honest, like breaking the grip of Gorilla Grodd who can throw cars through entire buildings. I generally disregard them because even though they're consistent with a number of his other feats against Grodd and above level characters, it's not consistent with his overall character. That's sorta the same dilemma I'm observing in Chris.

Sword Throw:

Here we reach a point of contention we've had issues with in the past. I don't believe that any feats involving weapons can be attributed to strength. The power of the weapon itself is such a wildcard and completely unquantifiable. For example, Captain America can use his shield to stagger the Hulk. Wolverine can use his claws to cut up Thor. Whatever sword Slade was using in that scan obviously isn't as powerful as vibranium or adamantium, but it is still an unpredictable factor that makes the feat meaningless in terms of strength. If that was, like, a dull object I'd be really impressed. But perhaps the only reason that happened is due to the sharpness of the sword. How much do we attribute to Slade and how much do we attribute to his equipment? It's unquantifiable and therefore useless.

It's always been easy for me tell how much is the sword and how much is Slade because I'm aware of what exactly Slade has done with those swords as well as very experienced with this character overall. However, if you want to bar this feat then we can bar this feat. You said that if he had done this with a dull object you'd have been impressed, so what do you make of Deathstroke throwing an assault rifle into the [massively bulletproof] Koschei:

Gallery

Also, Slade, while weakened, easily lifted and used a large slab of concrete as a weapon, digging each of his individual fingers into its side, and sent Batman flying with it:

Is Chris seriously supposed to be closer to Spider-Man's level than Deathstroke's? I'm just not seeing it. Maybe Blade would be a better example?

Tell me what is more impressive. Throwing a small and sharp object hard enough to pierce armor and bust a wall? Or throwing a dull object, that also weighs 200 pounds, hard enough to destroy two superhumans. This object itself also happens to be a superhuman. Chris picks superhumans up and over his head, and uses them as projectiles against each other hard enough to destroy all three instantly. Unfortunately gifs don't have sound, so you miss the hard "SPLASH" sound effects signifying that he's literally exploding them with this throw.

First off, is Chris naturally able to walk up and do this to those superhumans or is it necessary to wear them down with bullets and explosives before you can kill any of them in melee? Putting that aside, the first half of this feat, lifting and throwing a superhuman overhead, is not above Slade's pay grade. For example, Deathstroke has absolutely manhandled Gorilla Grodd's super-gorilla fodder which aside from exploding any of them is more than comparable to what Chris did:

Other than that, I'll reserve my comments about this feat until I know how much the fodder Chris killed were damaged up until the point where he got his hands on them. This seems of vital importance and I don't know why it goes unmentioned in as many Resident Evil threads as it does.

But I already showed this as an example of Chris's base strength. This is a regular melee move for him and it isn't even hard. You want to see a high-end feat for Chris? He's able to halt a rampaging Napad on a dime, and then completely shatter its bulletproof armor with one knee strike (only explosions or firing on its weak points can destroy the Napad's armor otherwise. Chris does it with just his knee). How is it that Chris, who has no viral enhancements, is so much stronger than the BOWs made for nothing but brute strength? It's literally a monster gorilla. The regular C-Virus infected are superhumans, and the Napad is made from multiple C-Virus corpses fusing together and joining their strength, and Chris all by himself STILL overpowers it bluntly.

How much had the Napad been damaged previously? What does it take to trigger those QTE prompts in the first place? For the record I'm also not seeing why simply stopping his charge is supposed to be outside of Steve and Slade's league.

Steel Doors and Dumpsters:

Well, kicking out a car door and kicking in some kind of steel door is equalled by Chris also kicking in a steel door.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-20-2014/iFQtmv.gif

But the door Slade kicked in during his first appearance is much larger than both, so I would have just used that feat if I were you.

I would have if I wasn't hand-picking certain feats from under separate writers so I could give you an into to how strong Deathstroke actually is. Along with the feat from his debut appearance, Slade has bashed down other steel doors and and blasted through barricades:

Gallery

The middle feat was also performed while wearing Steel's boots, without the motor assists. There's other feats I could use but this is just what I have on hand.

And the dumpster feat, which is very recent, might be Slade's best strength feat ever. That thing weighs like 500 pounds and Slade kicked it with such force that it killed another person. Not only that, but as you mentioned, he crumpled the steel. I don't know which is more impressive, launching 500 pounds like a projectile or crumpling steel. Just a really nice, superhuman feat.

I don't know if I'd agree with that. He has also struck Tim Drake so hard he was sent flying into a car and knocked it back several feet, but that's based on relative similarity and not overall impressiveness. For now, I just want to know how you personally think this compares to Chris' base? Keep in mind, Slade performed this feat casually.

The guy held open a bulkhead door long enough for Piers to climb up the rope with his bare hands. This is a massively superhuman feat. It takes all of Chris's heart to overpower this machine in order to save his friend, which is interesting considering he's done all that other shit relatively casually.

Deathstroke put a similar amount of effort into a kick that moved Mammoth forward:

Wasn't really as much of a kick as it was pushing him with his legs but that's what makes it being a feat of overall strength like Chris catching the bulkhead door rather than just another feat of Slade hurting a mid-tier with a strike. Pure strength is on display here.

Actually, I just stumbled across this feat that I think proves Chris could replicate with a punch, what Slade does with a kick. He punches a steel shutter out of sheer anger and caves it in.

Kicks are most frequently used by Deathstroke. This one feat doesn't go to show that Chris is any stronger by itself, if that's what you're getting at.

Everything Else:

And Slade oneshotted Risk with a flying kick to the jaw while Risk was off guard. Literally his most powerful possible kick, to the most sensitive part of the body (getting hit in the jaw rattles your brain), on an enemy who was unprepared and unbraced... if Slade just outright oneshotted a 10 tonner, I'd just call it WIS. But with all these factors, it actually makes perfect sense he did that. You cannot understate the difference between a sucker punch, and a punch while prepared. I could probably knock out Mike Tyson if he punched him while he was completely off guard. The difference a sneak attack makes can not be understated.

Right, my use of the word outright was poor. Other than that, I'm not hiding the fact that it was a sneak attack, because it still takes a great amount of strength to accomplish what Slade did.

I never said that Chris is as strong as Spider-Man. You listed all of Spider-Man's highest end feats to counter, and I do not think Chris can replicate those. What I said is that Chris is on par with Spider-Man's typical output. As in, 90% of the time, Peter is holding back. And he's still amazingly strong, but he has the ability to output a LOT more when he needs to. Chris is on par with your typical Spider-Man, when he's fighting somebody like Kraven or the Vulture. Not dead serious Spider-Man like when he fights Venom. But even a holding back Spider-Man is magnitudes above the strength of Deathstroke. And that's okay because like I said, Deathstroke is faster and they are both tactical machines. I think they even out ultimately. But Chris is definitely stronger. His showings are too outrageous.

I was never talking to you about Spider-Man, I was talking to Nick about Spider-Man because he said that Chris is a rough equal to a relatively serious Spider-Man. Spider-Man. I'm sorry if I'm forgetting to respond to anything especially important but I need to get some reading done at the moment. Depending on the length of your reply I may opt to tune out of this thread until it's resurrected some time from now.

@elijah_c_washington: Relax, that's nick.

We talking Master Chief in the armor? Then he wins every category (except regeneration). If it's him out of the armor I'd bet on Ultimate Cap.

Aw, okay then. @nickzambuto, ignore certain things.

@elijah_c_washington: You said you wanted me to limit the amount of filler in my posts, so that is what I am going to do.

About the idea that Chris "weakens" enemies first before blowing them apart. This isn't true, several of my gifs show Chris blowing enemies apart with his first attack. You can even see it against a Molded later in that same trailer.

Gallery

Instead of arguing the minutia of every single Deathstroke feat you posted, I'm simply going to say this: you still haven't actually posted any feats from Deathstroke that are on par with what Chris regularly does. You've hypothesized that it's POSSIBLE Deathstroke could replicate Chris's feats, because across his 40 year publication history, there are several implications that he typically holds back. Frankly, this obviously isn't good enough. He either has feats that can match up or he does not. I'm pretty convinced that the answer is he does not, because you've already shown me several scenes where Deathstroke absolutely had no reason to hold back, and yet he still isn't operating on the level of power that Chris operates on. That is, every single basic punch is like an explosion destroying metahuman skulls. The closest thing you've shown Deathstroke doing is ripping off the jaw of a subhuman, which is an order of magnitude less impressive.

And why are you still saying Chris isn't consistent? I literally posted a dozen feats of him operating on this magnitude. How is that not good enough? I'm only pulling from two games here, not decades of publication history.

Similarly, Deathstroke was capable of crippling Koschei, the unkillable man with his strikes and then hit him hard enough to lay him out on the ground:

Come on now he's obviously dislocating Koschei's joints. That's an order of magnitude different from Deathstroke being able to just punch him in the face and make him explode into blood, which is what Chris did to Wesker. Chris is operating on a higher level of power on a regular basis.

What I'm wowed by is Slade tearing metal with his hands, which is something I have not seen Chris replicate.

You are misusing the word tear. Tear would mean reaching the metal's tensile strength and breaking it apart, but all Slade is doing is crumpling the metal. This isn't any more impressive than Chris kicking in a much thicker steel door. Neither of them can outright break metal, only characters like Wesker and Spider-Man can break metal.

Gallery

Frankly, this doesn't strike me as anything Slade couldn't do with about the same level of effort. Deathstroke's lifting strength has become very impressive over the last few years.

Chris isn't just deadlifting thousands of pounds. He's ripping it through a steel-like material at the same time. If this strikes you as something Deathstroke could replicate, by all means, show an equivalent feat. Because nothing you've shown so far is even close to this. You posted the wall feat from Slade like it's supposed to match up. This is like a combination of Slade lifting that wall, and kicking down that reinforced door. His two greatest strength feats, imagine if he did both simultaneously. That is what's happening with Chris. Imagine lifting a 100 pound weight, easy, now imagine lifting that weight if its attached to the floor by one layer of plastic wrap. Now it's impossible. But replace that plastic wrap with a bulletproof steel-like hide. This feat is obviously unlike anything Deathstroke has ever performed.

The creature quite clearly threw him back onto the ship. It's a great endurance feat but I don't think Chris actually overpowered anything in this gif.

The QTE is titled "Break Free" and if you fail the tentacle will pull Chris underwater. This means that the tentacle was trying to pull Chris underwater and he was resisting it, which is clearly out of Deathstroke's league.

What was the context around this? What was the monster trying to accomplish? It doesn't exactly look it's actively trying to crush him the whole time and failing, it looks like the monster is just successfully restraining him and Chris making no real progress in prying its fingers.

It is crushing him. Once again, the player playing as Chris has to wiggle with the stick to resist, or else they will die, and at the same time the player playing as Piers has to come rescue him before a time limit or else he will die. Haos isn't just fondling Chris, it is crushing him.

This feat is on Deathstroke's low-end, mind you. It shows he can smash a skull and that's all I used it show. I rely on other feats to show how he truly compares to Chris.

You never showed me Deathstroke smashing a skull.

It's always been easy for me tell how much is the sword and how much is Slade because I'm aware of what You said that if he had done this with a dull object you'd have been impressed, so what do you make of Deathstroke throwing an assault rifle into the [massively bulletproof] Koschei:

At last, something impressive.

First off, is Chris naturally able to walk up and do this to those superhumans or is it necessary to wear them down with bullets and explosives before you can kill any of them in melee? Putting that aside, the first half of this feat, lifting and throwing a superhuman overhead, is not above Slade's pay grade. For example, Deathstroke has absolutely manhandled Gorilla Grodd's super-gorilla fodder which aside from exploding any of them is more than comparable to what Chris did:

Lifting 200-300 pounds overhead isn't amazing.

Throwing it at the speed of a rocket is what's amazing.

Deathstroke never threw a person hard enough to make another person explode.

Other than that, I'll reserve my comments about this feat until I know how much the fodder Chris killed were damaged up until the point where he got his hands on them. This seems of vital importance and I don't know why it goes unmentioned in as many Resident Evil threads as it does.

No, they don't need to be weakened. The reason it goes unmentioned in Resident Evil threads is because the answer is no. I posted the gifs above.

How much had the Napad been damaged previously? What does it take to trigger those QTE prompts in the first place?

None. the QTE triggers whenever the Napad tries that attack. It can be the very first attack they try as soon as you enter the room and the animation won't be any different.

For the record I'm also not seeing why simply stopping his charge is supposed to be outside of Steve and Slade's league.

Like I explained, the Napad forms from a bunch of other monsters fusing together into one. It's literally a Super Soldier Gorilla strong enough to make shockwaves. You thinking that Deathstroke can replicate this isn't enough, he actually needs feats of equivalent brute power, which he does not seem to have.

Deathstroke put a similar amount of effort into a kick that moved Mammoth forward:

Chris holding up a locking bulkhead door through sheer effort is on par with Deathstroke pushing 300 pounds? Think about the weight and hydraulics involved in bulkhead lockdown... that's a multiton feat...

@the_hajduk: I think I'm just not gonna debate against Resident Evil characters for awhile and then I'll get back to you.

Lol, if I abuse gameplay mechanics to the extent that @the_hajduk does then Master Chief stomps even harder- he has high level telepathy because in the Halo games you can see him flipping scorpion tanks without even using his hands! You can also kill people just as easily with melee strikes than with the sniper rifle (if you don't shoot them in the head), so Master Chief's fists hit with the same energy as a Mach 4.5 armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot round!

Game mechanics are an excuse invented by people who don't want their favorite characters to lose. It is a game, it tells its narrative through gameplay, we can not judge one medium by the standards and rules of another.

This makes no sense. Slade's feats just obviously are not on par with Redfield's. They are a whole order of magnitude inferior and the feats you posted to counter like crumpling a steel bin and lifting a wall so obviously don't match up with launching a giant boulder and overpowering giant monsters.

@the_hajduk: Like I said, I'm going to come back to this after awhile.

I just want to see some impressive feats.

If you're so sure Deathstroke can replicate these feats, than it should not be hard to find something equivocal.

@the_hajduk: Yea, sure, sure. I just want to take a break from Resident Evil threads first so I can then breakdown how strong I think Chris is with a clear head. Is this not acceptable?

No it is not acceptable.

At least tell me you don't think he's inconsistent anymore. I told you, I'm pulling every one of these feats from just two games. Not decades of publication history. Almost every single boss has a unique QTE involved where Chris performs a feat of Herculean strength. How can we get any more consistent than that?

@the_hajduk: sure it's consistent, and he's stronger than Slade.

That doesn't change the fact that the mechanics in the game are there for balancing/technical reasons, not because they actually reflect the universe the game is supposed to be in, but ok, let's have it your way, even though it makes no logical sense whatsoever.

@elijah_c_washington I would like to submit the unenhanced soldier protagonists from Call of Duty to the poll, as they have Wolverine+ level regenerating abilities. On the easiest difficulty they're able to regenerate from multiple assault rifle/sniper rounds and even a point blank grenade blast in mere seconds. This at the very least puts them above most of the super soldiers in the poll in regeneration and durability.

Fantastic, this turned out better than I could have hoped.

That's different, I'm using animations and quicktime events, not health bars.

One of your points is that the melee attack Redfield has can destroy monsters that in-game can take many bullets. This is clearly a game mechanic, and has been used in many games because if melee attacks weren't beefed up to be more dangerous than bullets, then there'd be no reason for them. Like I said before, if we take your game mechanic then Master Chief's punches would have the same energy as an anti-material sniper round, which is just ridiculous. Same thing with the Gears of War characters.

That's different, Chris is outright shown obliterating enemies with his melee attacks, that's what they do, it doesn't just deal a certain amount of hit points.

So? That's still just a graphic on top of a game mechanic. That's just the level of gore the developers wanted to display in the game because it's horror-action-esque. In Dead Space 2 if you play on the hardest difficulty necromorphs can take an insane amount of damage from military-grade weapons, especially to the body/head. In the lore, they're literally described as virtually unkillable, which is why the only way to stop them is to cripple their limbs. Yet in game they go down in like 2 melee hits to the body, with the graphics showing Isaac squashing them into giblets, even with the ubermorph. So using your logic, an unenhanced person's (the guy's not even a trained soldier, he's an engineer) wild, frantic melee swings now more powerful than military grade assault weapons.

I guess he is! This doesn't really prove the melee isn't legit.