Star Wars The Last Jedi, I don't get the hate for this movie

I'm watching Star Wars The Last Jedi right now, I'm halfway through the movie, I just passed the scene with Master Yoda appearing before Luke and I'm in tears with that scene.

From watching the first half of the movie, I don't find anything wrong with it at all, I'm enjoying myself with this movie, it's certainly better than The Force Awakens that's for sure.

I'll update once I'm done watching the second half right now.

Why are you making a thread saying you dont get the hate when you aint even finished it yet? I mean you never know the last half of the film could completely fall apart.

But anyway, Last Jedi was just a really underwhelming experience for me.

Over-hating is one of the things people on the Internet do the most.

Not My Luke

People were expecting Luke to be Super Jedi by now and train Rey to be a Super Jedi. Instead Luke was a bum and didn't even train her.

What a major let down.

Let's see:

-It's a copy of episode 5.

-It spends way too much time focusing on character diversity when it should be focusing on character development.

-They give no background to Snoke and he dies already.

-Rose and Finn's entire storyline is boring and pointless.

-Luke is suddenly giving up and acting gloomy when he was and is supposed to be the opposite of that.

-Luke gets no combat feats.

-Rey is magically a master swordsman being able to beat the Praetorian guards.

-Holdo could have just told them her plan but she didn't for a dumb reason.

-They kill off Ackbar for literally no reason.

-Leia and the space thing is just...no.

-Phasma comes back and dies again. No one cared before or after this.

I could go on but I'm in school so no.

Ehhhh...no.

AT-ATs attacking a rebel line that gets destroyed. Jedi teacher who doesn't fight anymore teaches apprentice on foreign planet. Said Jedi apprentice fights darksider, neither kills the other. Good guys running from bad guys in space. Rebel base gets destroyed at the beginning of the movie. Sound similar?

@necromancer76: Except it's not a copy, see if it were, it might have at least been tolerable. No, it was more...a poor attempt at it.

I didn't dislike the movie, it wasn't the greatest. I heard that JJ and the rest didn't have a clear structure when it comes to mapping out a trilogy, it kinda feels a little you only live once sort of thing. Plus your typical social political rabble from the internet.

@wolfrazer: Ok, well, I can agree with that. Regardless, the movie isn't as good as critics say it is.

Luke has no combat feats.

This

Just finished the movie and I throughly enjoyed it.

Not really, I didn't really see that, sure it borrows elements from Empire Strikes Back, however, when you compare how Force Awakens copies A New Hope, well, Last Jedi did a better job not blatantly copying Empire.

Leia is a Skywalker and has Skywalker blood running through her veins and the space scene was her unlocking her Force potential. I'm just sorry that Carrie Fisher died and that we'd never see her again after this movie.

True, I was a little disappointed by that, but that is the Sith way after all, Apprentice killing the Master for the mantle of leadership. And also, death has no meaning in Star Wars, Snoke could always come back as a Force ghost or come back as a clone like Palpatine does in the EU.

The rest of this is just nitpicking, and for Last Jedi is a great Star Wars movie, better than Force Awakens, so I'm not bothered by the rest.

As I said, when you compare how blatantly Force Awakens tries tries tries to be A New Hope, well, Last Jedi did a better job not blatantly copying Empire.

@tethadam said:

And be overpowered like the Jedi in the EU? No thank you.

It was a shitty movie with pointless plot points

Kylo Ren was the only thing that kept me entertained

@argonvegell: The fact that it needs to borrow elements from a previous movie proves that it can't come up with a lot of new material. That's a problem.

Not only does she automatically learn how to control her flight and fly into the cruiser when space should have sucked everyone out, but she also performs a feat better than anything Luke did. Which is dumb because Luke is an actual Jedi and she had never even used an ability before.

Nope, Snoke is not a Sith, as confirmed by the creators. And no, he won't return as a ghost because it violates Lucas' view of the Force.

Most of those weren't nitpicking. Finn's storyline was long. But they made it boring and pointless. And Mark Hamill himself was disappointed with what they did with Luke.

It's just badly written and constructed.

The world building is laughably phoned in and lazy. The First Order is the Empire and the Resistance is the Rebellion because it is safe. This ignores that a week ago there was a Republic (which apparently destroying a few planets wiped out and no one seems to care) and just a day or two ago the First Order suffered a massive loss in the destruction of the Starkiller Base. Instead of giving an interesting and new dynamic they make the climax be the beginning of Empire Strikes Back with snow, or salt, planet and Walkers closing in on a base.

Luke makes no sense in this movie based on what we know. We see Luke through three movies emerge a hero who redeems Darth (Basically Space Hitler) Vader with his optimism. The next scene we see is Luke saw darkness in his Nephew, walked to his hut in the middle of the night contemplating murdering him, getting caught as he changed his mind. So Ben tears down the hut, slaughters or converts Luke's other apprentices, and joins the First Order. Luke...does nothing beside make a map for R2-D2 as he sulks on an island never wanting to be found. The fact that by the end they made a movie that made me hate Luke Skywalker (my childhood fictional hero) is an accomplishment of sorts.

The whole central plot is based on two things, the Resistance are led by an idiot in Holdo who is fortunate to be chased by an idiot in Hux. The characters behave in profoundly stupid ways ignoring logic or tactics to make the plot proceed. The First Order apparently have resources to have a fleet of Star Destroyers, yet the never do anything besides slowly chase a ship. No coordinated maneuvers to box in the Resistance, and yet they manage to cripple the Republic and grind the Resistance down to less than a hundred people? How? Then we have Holdo, a leader so bizarrely unqualified I thought the whole time she was a mole sabotaging the Resistance. No, she is just fool who thinks withholding information and sowing resentment in your ranks you just took command of is fine. The movie seems to want to make us like her because...they wrote in a new tactic that would fundamentally change every space battle in Star Wars.

I was actually someone who defended Rey in Force Awakens, but now I have no more patience for her. In roughly two weeks she goes from scavenger to Jedi Knight. Nothing is earned, there is no catharsis, Rey can do about anything. Need ten tons of rocks moved? Not even a challenge we build to, she just does it because being absurdly over powered is the best way to make a protagonist relatable.

Then we have issues like Captain Phasma being under utilized in a way that seems to want to make any fans of her not care about the character. We needed that time for Rose, who has perhaps the dumbest scene in all of Star Wars (yes, I am counting Jar Jar). Let's set the stage.
The Resistance is desperate and being pummeled by the First Order Walkers who are bringing a cannon to blow up the door and snuff them out. Rose, Finn, Poe, and others go out in broken down ships in last ditch effort to stop the cannon. The ships are being picked off one by one and it is deemed suicide. Everyone turns back. Finn presses on ready to sacrifice himself, the music swells and...Rose smashes into him preventing his success.

Why is this profoundly stupid?

1. How did Rose turn around, avoid the Walker Fire, overtake Finn, and then hit him from the side?
2. These ships are shown to be very poorly made, this move could have easily killed one or both of them.
3. This allows the cannon to be fired blowing up the door and for what our characters know, kill everyone.
4. They live, and now sit a good three miles at least from the door. Why don't the Walkers fire on them? How does Finn drag Rose back across a White flat open surface that is shown to display in bright red movement on its surface?
5. Rose states she does this because "We save what we love" somehow managing to ignore what Finn was doing, and then kisses him in the most cringe inducing uncomfortable climatic kiss I've ever seen in a movie ever.
6. There is no way Rose knew Luke Skywalker would show up and buy time or that Rey could lift ten tons of rocks to get everyone out the back or that Finn can drag a hundred pounds across three miles undetected in about five to ten minutes. Much like Holdo she could have easily been a double agent based on her actions.

The only reason this movie generates emotion is because the brand "Star Wars" is slapped on it. People treat Star Wars like it is their local sports club that have to be loyal to through thick and thin. I don't hate it. That's the issue. I've sat through five mainline Star Wars films in my life and haven't enjoyed any of them. My nostalgia for three amazing movies of my childhood have run out. I'm not a Star Wars fan anymore. To me it's no longer a world with characters I love, it's just a brand to sell stuff.

@necromancer76 said:

I said the same thing about the Force Awakens, and I was right, Force Awakens sucks because it blatantly clones A New Hope, however, Last Jedi didn't feel like a clone of Empire.

I started watching the movie with hating it in mind because of how disappointed I was with Force Awakens, but I ended up liking the movie.

Okay, but Snoke is a Force user as seen in the movie. And I don't get what you are talking about, Snoke not returning as a ghost because it violates Lucas' view of the Force? Ben Kenobi returned as a Force ghost, Yoda returned as a ghost, so did Anakin, so what are you talking about?

@argonvegell: Everyone you just listed serves what side of the force?

@mraugen: I agree with everything you said.

It's a great movie imo but fans had already made up their minds about what they wanted before going in. Makes me seriously wonder if Star Wars is capable of working as a franchise going forward or if fans are too stuck in their views of what Star Wars is/stuck in nostalgia.

Mostly people are stuck to an idea of Luke that IMO only existed in the EU. In the OT he never was a great paragon of the light side. He struggled with it until the last moment and was constantly emotional. He also constantly made mistakes throughout the OT. The thought that in a moment of weakness he turned on his saber and the guilt of that tore him apart is perfectly in character for me.

The movie was about how even legends and heroes are humans and make mistakes or don't match the legend. (Rey-Luke, Rose-Finn, Poe-Holdo). Fans couldn't handle this.

1. Which makes zero sense, Luke makes a map to his location...yet in TLJ he wants to die? So what's the point of the map?...That is so hilariously stupid and not hilarious in the funny way.

2. I think it was over a matter of days given TLJ takes place a few days or even a day after TFA...so even worse.

3. Yeah, I didn't really care for Phasma or Rose. I mean I didn't really care for Boba Fett all that much in the OT, but he wasn't propped up to be a huge key part and then completely wasted. Phasma was and she was completely wasted, that's even worse!

4. That was perhaps one of the only scenes that could have been good in the movie, Finn's sacrifice would have been great...and then...yeah...what a way to ruin that moment. Also if I recall correctly, that kiss happened right as the FO in the background blew open that huge door, that just makes it an even worse scene than what it already was.

@necromancer76: I'm sorry but the Holdo complaints are off base, she did tell people her plan just not Poe who was demoted for disobeying orders and throwing away lives for a meaningless "victory" not to mention he tried to blow off his demotion once Leia was hurt. She didn't trust him and neither do I. High ranking military leaders don't have to explain what's happening to the lowest grunt especially when the clocks running.

Well I don't get the love for it either and neither do a lot of fans. I find it ridiculous and insulting that people are blaming fans for being disappointed.

Except Poe isn't the lowest ranking grunt. He's a commanding officer in her rapidly dwindling command structure. She also didn't just not tell Poe, she refused to inform pretty much everyone besides her select group of personnel on the bridge. There were run of the mill crew members running for the escape pods multiple times because everyone though they were all going to die there. Plus Poe's fellow pilots went along with his mutiny because they were also uninformed about the plan. Holdo didn't just not tell one slightly unruly officer, she didn't tell the majority of her fleet the plan. Which is stupidity on such a scale as to be damn near treason in it's effects.

Poe is
1. Highly regarded and beloved
2. Been in command
3. A known "Hothead"

All your superiors are wiped out thrusting you into leadership. Do you

A. Tell Poe the plan, maybe he can help
B. Talk to Poe and ask for trust and support
C. Demand obedience and put Poe in the brig for insubordination
D. Antagonize Poe and then leave him alone to possibly start a mutiny

Describing Poe as a "lowest grunt" is laughable in a military operation that has less than a few hundred people left. He's arguably the most valued asset they have and someone with charisma to rally behind. This attitude of "I don't have to explain myself" teaches us what exactly? Blindly obey orders? You're in a resistance movement, you think people may not just fall in line and will question authority? Great leaders read a situation, Holdo failed miserably in that and her lack of command was her downfall.

@kiba: What ParagonNate and MrAugen said

It wasn’t a great movie at all.

If you erase the original trilogy it's a decent movie the problem is it butchers loved characters such as Luke who is totally out of character, has a weak villain who has no back story off anything and is just killed off with no explanation, then there's the creepy love/sexual tension between Rey and Kylo

The whole movie just feels pointless and adds very little to the grand scheme of star wars

Instead of making a new fresh trilogy they haven't brought anything new or creative just pointless filler to make heaping piles of cash

The movie looks really good visually but it has little to no substance

The Last Jedi is Garbage

I'm sure that you've heard this already, but honestly, this movie sucks. If you are a Star Wars fan or not, it still sucks. Spoilers.

First off, there are SO MANY PLOT HOLES. To start off, why does the First Order immediately go from destroying a few planets to OWNING THE ENTIRE GALAXY?! Their whole base was on one planet, and that planet was destroyed. It doesn't make sense.

Why is the Republic so weak? They call themselves the rebels in the film, but THEY SHOULD BE OWNING THE GALAXY! Then it comes down to the 9 or so rebels left on that one planet... how convenient that the last ship had the main characters on it.

Why did the First Order chase them at all? If small ships can go through the shields, why not send 500 tie fighters? Those 3 were very effective, but THEY GAVE UP AFTERWARDS?

If the First Order now owns the galaxy, WHY IS THERE ENTIRE FLEET SO SMALL?! If they know where the ship is, why not simply have 10 others jump to their location?

Or, better yet, why didn't they jump out of hyperspace and THEN JUMP BACK RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE REBEL FLEET?!

Why didn't the Dreadnought tilt its bow a bit to crush the bombers, or Poe, before they attacked, or even while they attacked?

Why can one bomber destroy AN ENTIRE DREADNOUGHT but when the ships are shot, the explosions were self-contained? Wouldn't that cause a HUGE explosion?

Onto the characters. Luke Skywalker is a whiny little coward in this movie. He doesn't want to leave his island? He doesn't want anyone to find him, BUT HE MADE A MAP THAT TELLS THEM WHERE HE IS! WHAT?! The same Luke that went on a suicide mission onto the DEATH STAR TO SAVE DARTH VADER, one of the evilest men in the galaxy, just because he was family and saw some light in him, WANTED TO KILL HIS NEPHEW BECAUSE HE SAW THAT HE HAD DARK SIDE THOUGHTS?! Didn't Yoda already tell Luke not to be rash and not act off instinct?!?!

The Leia scene was one of the WORST scenes in cinema history. Abysmally terrible. She should be dead, by all means. The explosion itself should have killed her. The oxygen is immediately gone from her body so her brain would shut down in 15 or so seconds. She'd begin to freeze, and she'd EXPLODE from the pressure of oxygen in her lungs if she had any. Then Leia, who has never been shown to do ANYTHING force-related, proceeds to do one of the most complex force actions that we've never seen.

The Bootleg-Hoth battle was terrible. It wanted to be Hoth so bad but lacked everything Hoth did. The rebellion STILL hid like a bunch of cowards, and there wasn't real action. The snowspeeders did nothing at all, except get exploded. Finn was about to sacrifice himself in a meaningful way, but he didn't because that annoying Asian girl knocks him out the way AND COULD HAVE KILLED EVERYONE ON THAT BASE AS A RESULT. Then Luke appears, but he's not there, and it is so obvious because of his lightsaber. Why didn't Ren notice this? They were about to give Luke a good scene, tanking the At-At blasts, and dodging Kylo, but he can't fight them because he's not there! What a cheap move. They even set up his arrival by showing his X-Wing, but apparently, this movie can't have good moments. Then HE DIES. Why? Because of screw Star Wars fans! He could have died a MEANINGFUL DEATH BY ACTUALLY BEING THERE. Why even project yourself if you died in the process anyway? That defeats the purpose of projection.

Snoke was a good villain. He was powerful, intimidating (despite that ridiculous gold robe) and he treated Rey and Kylo like kids. He linked the two, could effortlessly read their minds, but COULDN'T SEE THE LIGHTSABER NEXT TO HIM? They trashed the one good thing about the movie.

Phasma dies in the worst way. She had a rifle to shoot Finn with, BUT DIDN'T?! SHE THOUGHT INSTANT DECAPITATION WAS MORE PAINFUL, SO SHE CHOSE THAT? AND THEN SHE LOSES TO FINN VIA A SUCKER PUNCH. She fought with her staff, but she had a blaster... AND BB8 WAS RIDICULOUS IN THAT AT-ST.

Meanwhile, the purple haired lady is not letting Poe in on her plan because... tension. Why didn't she tell Poe, ESPECIALLY WENT SHE WAS CAPTURED! OF COURSE, HE'D MUTINY IF YOU DIDN'T SAY THE PLAN!

Why did she have to stay? Isn't their autopilot? A droid? Either way, I'm happy she died.

Why didn't they have an X-Wing cut the ship in half the first time via hyperspace? So dumb.

And Rey is still a Mary-Sue, of course. She got no training, only a definition of the force. Then she goes to lift some rocks, BUT SHE DIDN'T EARN IT!

This entire movie is so uncertain. Tell me, what decision did the director make? Leia almost dies, but she doesn't! It almost has Finn sacrificing himself, but it doesn't! It almost had a lightsaber duel, but it was against guards, so not really. Luke almost was a good character, but he wasn't really there. Poe almost did mutiny, but didn't. Snoke almost was a good villain, but he wasn't. Luke almost got killed, but he didn't because he wasn't there. Oh, wait! He still dies!

@necromancer76: well then frankly you're as wrong as them. Everyone has this backwards, Poes arc through this movie is about him learning that sometimes the price of victory is too high. At the beginning he sacrificed a bomber wing that the Resistance needs to destroy a ship that the FO can afford to lose. That's why Leia slapped and demoted him. She understood that they could not afford any more losses and Holdo knew it too. The fact the plan was kept quiet was not why the mutiny happened, that's why Poe ran his little secret squirrel mission with Finn and Rose, he mutinied once he found out the plan and disagreed violently because his bloodthirsty attitude couldn't handle the idea of sacrificing the ship to save the people. Had the plan been out in the open Poe would have revolted sooner rather than later and the fact Leia shot him and not Holdo proves who was ultimately correct.

In addition to this

• Rey was able to defeat Kylo Ren in TFA and TLJ. She has virtually no training and just discovered the force about a week ago, yet she defeated someone who was trained by Luke and Snoke! I have no problem with a random gaining force powers but to be powerful enough to fight someone of Kylo Ren's caliber and win? Come on, that's too much
• Besides doing this, it was revealed that her parents are nobodies. Her connection with the force is too strong to just be a nobody. Anakin Skywalker was a nobody who had a strong connection with the force and had the highest midichlorian account ever recorded for a person. However, he was also prophesied to bring balance to the force so I can accept his mother being a normal person and he has a strong connection to the force. Rey is just a random who just magically got force powers and excels at them.
• Kylo Ren is a weak antagonist for episode IX. He is not threatening and kind of conflicted and whiny. Adam Driver plays him well but Kylo Ren is a weak antagonist.
• What happened to the other knights of Ren? They just magically disappeared.
• The Force Awakens was a good set up for The Last Jedi, and asked a lot of questions. The Last Jedi just ignores this questions and does the complete opposite. There was someone on comicvine who asked a similar question some time ago and I believe they came to the conclusion (based on a website or report) that a lot of millennials and newer generation young adults like TLJ, but the fans who saw the original or prequels were disappointed in the film. This film divided the fan base because it was so different.

How The Last Jedi Should Have Ended

This is what a lot of fans were expecting but we got the TLJ...

If any TLJ apologists have the time, they should watch the Mauler TLJ series on Youtube. Quite lengthy though.

Or maybe they could have just said, "Hey, there's a nearby planet with a rebel base that we're trying to get to so everyone stay calm." That literally would have been it. But they didn't do that because...?

Oh, and if you don't want sacrifices...Revan was literally one of the greatest generals in all of Star Wars, and he sacrificed a lot. Not everyone automatically has plot on their side like the Resistance who are severely outnumbered but somehow win everything.

@devilmenworks: I was about to link the exact same video haha. HISHE knows what's up.

If you don't get hate about The Last Jedi, hummie, then you have most shitty taste for movies in whole universe.

@necromancer76: I don't believe "That literally would have been it." I find that statement total nonsense. I've also said nothing about being against sacrifice, in fact one of my biggest complaints about Poe is that he sacrificed when it didn't matter but refused to at the end when it did. He did the wrong thing at every step of the way and learned all the wrong lessons and the audience is supposed root for him? Ridiculous. Don't misunderstand me, I hate this movie but I think in some places its hated for the wrong reasons which undermines all criticisms.

@thespartanb345t: The first Order bade wasn’t all the Planet? That’s like saying the Whole empire was on the Death Star.

They Destroyed the entire republic system that’s why the republic was almost not existing.

And the rest of those are just pure complaining and going that deep even TDK would be Garbage to you

Outside of all the sexist and racist stuff, this guy is totally right about the movie.

Leia and Holdo failed at every turn too. Look at what the Last Forcebender video said. It's all true. They all kept failing miserably and were saved by plot on so many levels.

Also, Poe asked Holdo a perfectly reasonable question: what is the plan? And she doesn't tell him or the crew. She simply talks about a dumb hope analogy. Explain that to me.

@saberscar223: So you're trying to justify the stupidity of the Republic all having their "bases" literally right next to each other? Who would do such a thing?

Oh right...the resistance. They put all their people on one ship. Look what happened.

Also, can someone explain to me how the First Order is CHASING the Resistance after they lost their huge base and a large majority of their army?

Reminder that Starkiller base isn't mentioned in TLJ a single time.

Oh, and how did Rey know to land BEHIND the rebel base at the end of the movie? How did she know they were going that way and that that was even an escape at all? Oh, and how did she lift all of those rocks with close to no force training at all with complete ease?

@necromancer76: Exactly. HISHE knows what up and what the fans wanted and expected. The sad/funny part is a lot of the comments in the comment section enjoyed the video more than the movie. Disney could learn a thing or two from HISHE.

I liked the last Jedi. I'll post a huge paragraph about why Tommorrow but right now I'm to lazy.

@riddlerfan77: Make sure to address all plot moments, silly decisions, and times when everything that happened in TFA was completely forgotten.

Oh and the sudden change in Luke’s character.

@necromancer76: Don't get me wrong LJ has it's problems. I'll go over those to. I liked it though. Don't worry though my thoughts will be fair. Also I'm allowed an opinion :)

@riddlerfan77: At no point did I say you weren’t allowed an opinion

@rubear: if you think Last Jedi is the worst film in the universe, then you are exaggerating, I have seen worst films than Last Jedi, at the top of my tongue, Force Awakens, Alien Covenant, the Transformers movies, so please, Last Jedi wasn't a bad movie and it certainly better than Force Awakens.

I enjoyed the movie despite what everyone else thinks.