Star Wars: Based On This Fight Who is More Skilled?

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EmmaFrostXmen

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Poll Star Wars: Based On This Fight Who is More Skilled? (19 votes)

Shaak Ti 26%
Ki Adi Mundi 74%
K'Kruhk 0%
Aayla Secura 0%
Sha'a Gi 0%

The Battle of Hypori

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Ki-Adi lasted the longest, so him. Next comes Shaak, then K'kruhk, and Aayla splits with Tarr Seir.

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Ti and Mundi did the best. Mundi lasted quite a bit longer in a 1v1 than Ti against Grievous which is an insane feat, so him.

Mundi is also touted in Legends as being one of the most powerful and skilled members of the Council, so that helps.

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Necromancer76

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Mundi

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@necromancer76: @breakofdawn: @lord_tenebrous: didn’t Shaak last the longest initially though? Everyone else got completely out dueled and Ti kept fighting.

Mundi lost faster than Shaak then got back up for a second fight. Shaak just happened to be KO’ed longer than Mundi was.

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@emmafrostxmen: Ki-Adi was kicked away, not KOed. He cleared the rubble off himself and went to help but Shaak had already been defeated. Ki-Adi held his own long enough for the Clones to arrive with reinforcements and was still standing by the end whereas Shaak Ti was KOed by a weaker attack than the one Ki-Adi shook off, but that’s irrelevant.

Ki-Adi lasted longer in a 1v1 and was only disarmed as the Clones arrived. He was also fending off a more aggressive assault (three blades) whereas Shaak Ti lost to two.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@emmafrostxmen said:

@necromancer76: @breakofdawn: @lord_tenebrous: didn’t Shaak last the longest initially though? Everyone else got completely out dueled and Ti kept fighting.

Mundi lost faster than Shaak then got back up for a second fight. Shaak just happened to be KO’ed longer than Mundi was.

Mundi then staved off Grievous for several minutes off-screen, so he did end up lasting longer.

@emmafrostxmen: Ki-Adi was kicked away, not KOed. He cleared the rubble off himself and went to help but Shaak had already been defeated. Ki-Adi held his own long enough for the Clones to arrive with reinforcements and was still standing by the end whereas Shaak Ti was KOed by a weaker attack than the one Ki-Adi shook off, but that’s irrelevant.

Ki-Adi lasted longer in a 1v1 and was only disarmed as the Clones arrived. He was also fending off a more aggressive assault (three blades) whereas Shaak Ti lost to two.

To be fair, it's not like Grievous genuinely disarmed Shaak in 10 seconds, and genuinely disarmed Mundi in several minutes. He just smacked Shaak's blade out of her hand with brute strength, not superior skill:

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In fact, he does the same thing to Mundi:

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It's not a good gauge.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@lord_tenebrous: well said, and Shaak was still scared because Grievous basically surprise attacked all of them and had them terrified. Mundi had more time to get his footing and therefore performed better after recovering.

Shaak outperformed him in my opinion, and if she had gotten back up likely would have lasted longer.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@lord_tenebrous: well said, and Shaak was still scared because Grievous basically surprise attacked all of them and had them terrified. Mundi had more time to get his footing and therefore performed better after recovering.

Shaak outperformed him in my opinion, and if she had gotten back up likely would have lasted longer.

While I see what you mean, I would disagree. I don't see such a prominent Master like Shaak giving into fear. If Grievous hadn't resorted to strength abuse, I have no doubt that she would have lasted longer, but when she was dueling him 1 on 1, she knew she was going to lose and was yelling for Ki-Adi to back her up quickly. If the gap was that decisive, the idea that she could last as long as Mundi (who could have kept going) isn't very plausible.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@lord_tenebrous: they all gave into feat though. That’s Grievous’ main tactic. Nobody knew what they were facing, and this was the first time they were seeing him attack. This weird cybernetic creature wielding lightsabers as fast if not faster than most Jedi could.

The look on their faces says it all, and Mundi getting kicked away gave him a break in between the duel, while Shaak was surprise attacked then by the end had to 1v1 him with no break. Mundi was surprise attacked, lost, then got a break to gain his footing and focus, then got to duel 1v1.

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The "What about the attack on the wookies" guy

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#12  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

@emmafrostxmen:

they all gave into feat though.

Sha'Gi, yes, the unstable Padawan. Everyone else was courageous and resolved. To be afraid in the face of seemingly overwhelming odds is unbecoming of even a reasonably battle-hardened soldier, much less Jedi. Much less Jedi Masters. Much, much less members of the Council.

That’s Grievous’ main tactic. Nobody knew what they were facing, and this was the first time they were seeing him attack. This weird cybernetic creature wielding lightsabers as fast if not faster than most Jedi could.

They saw him cut down Daakman Barrek, another esteemed Jedi. Hence why they more or less agreed that they couldn't take Grievous, but had to try regardless.

The look on their faces says it all,

Horror over the death of their colleagues, and awe at his speed, are not the same as being terrified.

and Mundi getting kicked away gave him a break in between the duel,

Taking such a hard hit like that, the resulting fall, and then digging into his speed to flash his way over there, aren't exactly restful activities. Mind you this is all crammed into 10 seconds, give or take.

while Shaak was surprise attacked then by the end had to 1v1 him with no break. Mundi was surprise attacked, lost, then got a break to gain his footing and focus, then got to duel 1v1.

You would have a point if Grievous abruptly transitioned out of passive shielding and immediately started attacking Shaak without letting up, which would catch her off-guard. But that's not the case here. He attacked Mundi, but simply blocked Shaak's attack. Then he remained still while Mundi flew across the wreckage, giving Shaak plenty of time to register what's happened.

Grievous went at an exhausted Shaak and couldn't breach her defenses before Mundi would arrive, and so he dispatched her through other means.

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Greysentinel365

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#13  Edited By Greysentinel365

It’s between Ki-Adi and Ti. Mundi lasted longer on the defence thanks to Soresu while Ti was stuck with Makashi (weak to power blows) and Ataru (exhausted).

Grievous dismisses Ki-Adi first. So I’m inclined to say Ti narrowly.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#14  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

@greysentinel365 said:

It’s between Ki-Adi and Ti. Mundi lasted longer on the defence thanks to Soresu while Ti was stuck with Makashi (weak to power blows) and Ataru (exhausted).

Do you have a source establishing that Mundi was on the defensive for most of his unseen duel, and used Soresu? His style is identified differently from source to source, but most harp on his Ataru:

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All of these are from sources released after the intrusion of TCW and the subsequent vast restructuring of lore, so their relevance to a fight from the early 2000s is dubious at best regardless. Perhaps you could take Ki-Adi's opening stance in the cartoon for something, it mimics that of other Ataru users such as Yoda & Qui-Gon:

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Could be unintentional, who knows.

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deactivated-6034d0d6dcbf4

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Clearly Mundi.

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@lord_tenebrous: Then Mundi was better able to stand up to Grievous' strength, again indicating superior skill.

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You're all fools, it's clearly ShaggySha'a Gi!!!

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all of them got absolutely shit on... Mundi i guess.

but basically this should tell you how much more impressive Kit Fisto is compared to other council members

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@lord_tenebrous: Then Mundi was better able to stand up to Grievous' strength, again indicating superior skill.

That, for the most part, is only indicative of Mundi having physical superiority over Shaak. Some of it could be attributed to him being more knowledgeable on how to fight an opponent with greater strength though, considering Shaak could barely hold up when Grievous was assaulting her, and called Mundi for help desperately. Mundi staved off Grievous's offensive for far longer and didn't seem like he was giving ground, which falls in line with how Mundi stonewalled his offensive for 1-2 seconds on screen when Grievous was actively fighting all 5 Jedi.

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@breakofdawn said:

@lord_tenebrous: Then Mundi was better able to stand up to Grievous' strength, again indicating superior skill.

That, for the most part, is only indicative of Mundi having physical superiority over Shaak. Some of it could be attributed to him being more knowledgeable on how to fight an opponent with greater strength though, considering Shaak could barely hold up when Grievous was assaulting her, and called Mundi for help desperately. Mundi staved off Grievous's offensive for far longer and didn't seem like he was giving ground, which falls in line with how Mundi stonewalled his offensive for 1-2 seconds on screen when Grievous was actively fighting all 5 Jedi.

It's hard to say how much of that we can attribute to strength as opposed to skill. He was clearly overwhelming Shaak Ti with a speed offensive and that was simply a follow up attack that disarmed her that she couldn't counter. Mundi then faced a greater onslaught (three blades as opposed to two) and held his own for noticeably longer (long enough for ARC Troopers to fly in, bomb the droids, then break through) against said offensive.

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@void_reborn said:
@breakofdawn said:

@lord_tenebrous: Then Mundi was better able to stand up to Grievous' strength, again indicating superior skill.

That, for the most part, is only indicative of Mundi having physical superiority over Shaak. Some of it could be attributed to him being more knowledgeable on how to fight an opponent with greater strength though, considering Shaak could barely hold up when Grievous was assaulting her, and called Mundi for help desperately. Mundi staved off Grievous's offensive for far longer and didn't seem like he was giving ground, which falls in line with how Mundi stonewalled his offensive for 1-2 seconds on screen when Grievous was actively fighting all 5 Jedi.

It's hard to say how much of that we can attribute to strength as opposed to skill. He was clearly overwhelming Shaak Ti with a speed offensive and that was simply a follow up attack that disarmed her that she couldn't counter. Mundi then faced a greater onslaught (three blades as opposed to two) and held his own for noticeably longer (long enough for ARC Troopers to fly in, bomb the droids, then break through) against said offensive.

Before the end 1v1 of that bout, Shaak Ti was clearly the best performer amongst the 6 Jedi and 5 that fought Grievous. Sha'agi was literally stomped and the other 3 were demolished later. Then it came down to Mundi and Shaak, where Grievous fought them both at the same time, taking both off guard with his wrists joints spinning. Then, Mundi conceded an opening first, which Grievous took advantage of and used to kick him away while parrying an incoming blow from Shaak. With Mundi out of the picture for the moment, Grievous went on to hammer away at Shaak's defenses, clearly dominating her with a relentless volley of hit after hit with his dual lightsabers, advancing forward by the second. Shaak desperately calls for Mundi, who has just barely recovered from the attack. Grievous knocks Shaak's saber out of her hand because she can't take his offensive anymore and barely survives by using a force barrier, but she is completely out of the fight. Mundi doesn't make it in time but now he's face to face with Grievous and shows off his true skill, being able to hold off Grievous on his own for even longer than all 5 of them at the same time, despite it being a losing battle.

For my verdict, it's true that Mundi slipped up at the beginning, doing slightly worse than Shaak Ti who managed to put up a futile defense for about 10 seconds contrast to being instantly kicked away, but his performance later far outclassed hers and proves that he is the most capable Jedi of the group. Some might argue that Mundi had a bit of time to compose himself but that is countered by the fact that he was just kicked like a projectile into a massive tower of debris which also collapsed on him, which would definitely hinder him in the battle.

Mundi did the best.

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@breakofdawn said:
@void_reborn said:
@breakofdawn said:

@lord_tenebrous: Then Mundi was better able to stand up to Grievous' strength, again indicating superior skill.

That, for the most part, is only indicative of Mundi having physical superiority over Shaak. Some of it could be attributed to him being more knowledgeable on how to fight an opponent with greater strength though, considering Shaak could barely hold up when Grievous was assaulting her, and called Mundi for help desperately. Mundi staved off Grievous's offensive for far longer and didn't seem like he was giving ground, which falls in line with how Mundi stonewalled his offensive for 1-2 seconds on screen when Grievous was actively fighting all 5 Jedi.

It's hard to say how much of that we can attribute to strength as opposed to skill. He was clearly overwhelming Shaak Ti with a speed offensive and that was simply a follow up attack that disarmed her that she couldn't counter. Mundi then faced a greater onslaught (three blades as opposed to two) and held his own for noticeably longer (long enough for ARC Troopers to fly in, bomb the droids, then break through) against said offensive.

Before the end 1v1 of that bout, Shaak Ti was clearly the best performer amongst the 6 Jedi and 5 that fought Grievous. Sha'agi was literally stomped and the other 3 were demolished later. Then it came down to Mundi and Shaak, where Grievous fought them both at the same time, taking both off guard with his wrists joints spinning. Then, Mundi conceded an opening first, which Grievous took advantage of and used to kick him away while parrying an incoming blow from Shaak. With Mundi out of the picture for the moment, Grievous went on to hammer away at Shaak's defenses, clearly dominating her with a relentless volley of hit after hit with his dual lightsabers, advancing forward by the second. Shaak desperately calls for Mundi, who has just barely recovered from the attack. Grievous knocks Shaak's saber out of her hand because she can't take his offensive anymore and barely survives by using a force barrier, but she is completely out of the fight. Mundi doesn't make it in time but now he's face to face with Grievous and shows off his true skill, being able to hold off Grievous on his own for even longer than all 5 of them at the same time, despite it being a losing battle.

For my verdict, it's true that Mundi slipped up at the beginning, doing slightly worse than Shaak Ti who managed to put up a futile defense for about 10 seconds contrast to being instantly kicked away, but his performance later far outclassed hers and proves that he is the most capable Jedi of the group. Some might argue that Mundi had a bit of time to compose himself but that is countered by the fact that he was just kicked like a projectile into a massive tower of debris which also collapsed on him, which would definitely hinder him in the battle.

Mundi did the best.

It's worth noting that Mundi was more of a target for Grievous than Ti. He singles him out at least three times, at 3:26, 3:34, and then with the kick in this video:

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So Grievous considered Mundi the greatest threat and was prioritising him over the other Jedi, who were fodder (except for Ti).

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@breakofdawn: Yes I know this, it's one of the first things I noticed when rewatching the fight a couple of years ago. Grievous intentionally singles Mundi out despite other Jedi being around him, because he is aware that he is the greatest threat. The only other ones he singled out were situationally challenged. K'kruhk decided to charge out on his own after Grievous landed and knocked up dust and debris in the air, which lead to him dying after Grievous tricked him with a defensive maneuver. Shaak was the only one left for the moment so Grievous fought her alone.

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#25  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

@breakofdawn said:

@lord_tenebrous: Then Mundi was better able to stand up to Grievous' strength, again indicating superior skill.

That would only indicate superior grip strength, and this is only if we're assuming that Grievous unsuccessfully struck at him with equal force. It looks like against Shaak Ti, he was intentionally winding up for that kind of blow. Mundi was about to rejoin the fight and we know that Grievous struggled against him alone, it's entirely possible that Grievous fell back on such brutish tactics due to the lack of time. He was under no such pressure against Mundi, and could battle more traditionally.

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@lord_tenebrous: Shaak Ti literally looked in awe. A speedy foe like Grievous sneak attacking all of them when he already had them on the run would make them scared or at least give them anxiety especially judging by their facial expressions. I believe it was stated by Dooku when he was training Grievous that the only way for him to defeat Jedi is via utilizing speed and fear to prevent them from using the force that much against him. Shaak Ti literally also uses ataru and makashi which are both offensive forms so being tired limits her way more than it would limit Mundi who uses a completely defensive form.

Also as you’ve admitted they were horrified over the loss of their colleague which distracts Jedi and therefore weakens them. A clear minded Jedi is the most powerful kind of Jedi.

Also my main point with the Mundi getting kicked away thing is everyone else went from getting sneak attacked to going into an all out duel. Grievous lost the sneak attack / speedblitz aspect against Mundi for their second fight. This is also proven by a more tired and more hurt Mundi doing better against Grievous alone then when he had help. Mundi was no longer in shock after getting some distance.

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Mundi